Have a question about how the TVTropes wiki works? No one knows this community better than the people in it, so ask away! Ask the Tropers is the page you come to when you have a question burning in your brain and the support pages didn't help.
It's not for everything, though. For a list of all the resources for your questions, click here. You can also go to this Directory thread
for ongoing cleanup projects.
Ask the Tropers is for:
- General questions about the wiki, how it works, and how to do things.
- Reports of problems with wiki articles, or requests for help with wiki articles.
- Reports of misbehavior or abuse by other tropers.
Ask the Tropers is not for:
- Help identifying a trope. See TropeFinder.
- Help identifying a work. See MediaFinder.
- Asking if a trope example is valid. See the Trope Talk forum.
- Proposing new tropes. See TropeLaunchPad.
- Making bug reports. See QueryBugs.
- Asking for new wiki features. See QueryWishlist.
- Chatting with other tropers. See our forums.
- Reporting problems with advertisements. See this forum topic.
- Reporting issues on the forums. Send a Holler instead.
Ask the Tropers:
resolved Team Fortress 2 characters edit
On the tf2 npcs page the trope Entertainingly Wrong was changed from
to
With the reasoning "Natter, also disputes canon." Firstly the new text is longer and makes what I feel is pointless use of footnotes, but also I fail to see how it disputes canon; Miss Pauling is canonically a lesbian, and when Scout (who was also staring for the 'weird to see naked people in honey' reason) tries to pull her away she says with a slightly awestruck expression
"You go ahead. I'll catch up," which I feel pretty decisively implies that she was Eating the Eye Candy.
So just wanted to check with the chorus before editing it back.
Edited by Biggbyresolved Edit war on Characters/MCUWandaMaximoff
A new troper liberty3
removed the following entry
:
- Womanchild: Despite being in her late twenties/early thirties, Wanda acts much like a teenage girl in most of her appearances. She's often seen brooding or is otherwise antisocial in most situations, and she watches old sitcoms like she did as a child to comfort herself in her lowest moments. Justified, given how Wanda hasn't exactly lived what one would call a normal or happy life.
I am not the one who added it in the first place, but I restored it since I believe it is perfectly fine. They removed it again. I sent a message to them and received no reply.
The trope is lampshaded in Captain America: Civil War. Steve Rogers calls her a "kid"
and she is 27 there (born in 1989, the film is set in 2016). And she dresses and behaves like a teen, too.
What should be done about it?
Edited by AsherinkaopenDouble-checking a potential sinkhole
Is it acceptable to pothole to Running Gag when something gets repeated on TV Tropes for humor? I checked the In-Universe Examples Only page and Running Gag isn't there, but I still want to double-check that this isn't one of those "annoying misuse of a trope" types of sinkhole that could lead to Trope Decay or worse.
I ask most specifically about this portion of the Leeroy Jenkins subpage for Tabletop Games, where I just added a pothole after the same thing was said for the fifth time:
- The GURPS team seems to love Leeroying, inasmuch as there are so many Disadvantages that can produce it:
- Berserk: You must roll to avoid Leeroying any time you take 3 or more hits in one turn, or under "Other conditions of extreme stress (GM's option)" — i.e. pretty much in any combat.
- Bloodlust: You must roll to avoid Leeroying any time you have a chance to kill a "legitimate enemy" — i.e. pretty much in any combat.
- Impulsiveness: You must roll to avoid Leeroying any time the rest of the party are taking too long discussing something — i.e. pretty much before any combat.
- On the Edge: You must roll to avoid Leeroying any time you have a chance to deliberately put yourself in mortal danger — i.e. pretty much before or during (and possibly after) any combat.
- Overconfidence: You must roll to avoid Leeroying any time you feel yourself a match, or more than a match, for your opponent — i.e. pretty much in any combat.
openUsing swearing when describing tropes - permitted or forbidden?
I know gratuitous profanity in examples is listed as Word Cruft while also being a Bluenose Bowdlerizer is discouraged, but as far as TV Tropes' generally accepted and striven for writing conventions in articles, does using terms like "fucks it up", "being an asshole", or "being his dumbass self" go against any of the Adminstrivia policies when editing articles? I know we have more lenient POV guidelines than Wikipedia or Fandom like allowing the generic "Tropes that apply" or "Visit the unabridged version HERE" being allowed to be written to reflect a quote or theme of the work documented, but I don't know if the same applies to asterisk-preceded examples.
I'm mainly talking about pages on works in any medium rather than Tropes themselves, as those are usually written from a subjective and generalizing standpoint with some humor thrown in at the beginning paragraph and/or folders if it's comedic or imitating the character subject of the trope. But from my experience, examples on a work's page are described more seriously, but I'm not sure what the line is for occasional allowances of language in example descriptions that wouldn't change the meaning/point either way if they were changed into something more informal (-> being an asshole -> being a jerk -> being arrogant/selfish/rude). Even if such a rule were in place or preferred, tropes that already have profanity in the title like Asshole Victim or Bitch in Sheep's Clothing would obviously be exceptions whether following the asterisk or being mentioned in a sentence after the colon of another trope, since Sinkholing is forbidden as a format regardless of the trope name.
I'm also wondering if it depends on the target demographic of the work and/or the subpage the profane descriptions of an applicable trope is used? What may seem like conventional description on a South Park example feels a bit out of place on a SpongeBob one.
Edited by Tacoyogoresolved Misuse of ascended memes for Sonic 3? Film
These were added to the Film.Sonic The Hedgehog 3 page, under Ascended Meme:
- Ascended Meme:
- A minor one; Shadow gets totally interested in La Ultima Passion and roots for the Love Interest to just kill the other legs of the Love Triangle she's stuck in. He just loves Latinas.
- At one point, Sonic calls Shadow "Hot Topic", Shadow's nickname in Snapcube's Real-Time Fandub.
I feel like this is misuse, as Ascended Meme is when the meme itself appears in a work. Neither of these feel like actual references to the memes and are a bit of a stretch to connect them and are Fan Myopia at worst.
Cause hearing Sonic call Shadow "Hot Topic" made me think "okay, reference to edgy stuff zeitgeist in the mid-2000s" and not a reference to Snapcube fandubs (FWIW I haven't watched either).
Similarly, Shadow watching the spanish drama and getting into it feels more like he's The Comically Serious and Not So Above It All, rather than the latinas meme.
Like, I feel an actual ascended meme referring to at least the Jehtt thing is if Shadow actually said "I Love Latinas" in the dialogue of the film.
Edited by taotruthsopenPreventing an Edit War Western Animation
In What If...? S3E3 "What If... The Red Guardian Stopped the Winter Soldier?":
- I added an trope
- palm529sw removed it
thinking it doesn’t apply to characters who also died in the source material.
I know this trope can be applied if a character dies sooner than in the source material as explained in the page itself. Can I get consensus to reapply it?
Edited by MaxyGregoryyyyresolved Somebody turned a proper wick into a disambig wick
Few days ago on WhatCouldHaveBeen.Hololive (as seen on this edit
), a troper somehow changed the Franchise.Devil May Cry wick into VideoGame.Devil May Cry... which doesn't make sense because the Franchise one is already the proper wick that doesn't need fixing or changing at all, while the VideoGame one creates a green wick that leads to a disambig page.
I'm making this ATT just to be safe, because I originally used the Franchise wick before on that example, and changing it back myself might somehow make others think it's an edit war. Also, this is the first time I've ever seen a troper turn a blue wick into a green disambig wick, and I'm not sure if it was intentional or accidental.
openCharacter folder using another character's quote instead of the folder subject's own. Film
Over a year ago from now sapphyblue changed the character quote
at the beginning of Mark Hoffman's folder on Saw: Jigsaw and Accomplices (which I was a regular editor at back then).
The original quote was said by Hoffman himself:
For some reason, sapphyblue decided to choose a quote about him by another character instead:
I find this change pretty odd, because not only is it standard for character folders to have quotes said by the character themselves (unless they don't speak at all, at which I think it's acceptable to use a quote from another character describing them), in the current quote Hoffman is being described from the perspective of another character rather than his own, and as someone who knows the context of the films best, I think the original quote did a better job at summarizing Hoffman's own character and his moral conflict with John (that's the theme of both quotes).
I'd like to change the character folder quote back to what it originally was, with a link to this query to avoid making the change look like an Edit War; I was originally responsible for moving the original line from image caption to folder quote, but I didn't write it in the first place, and I don't think reverting a change from over a year ago can easily come off as edit warring (unless it's clear that one of the tropers is deliberately changing things back to their liking, as in a very slow-paced edit war). But what are your thoughts on this issue, and what would you suggest me to do if you don't think switching it back myself is the best option?
openYack Fest, "Post a random song (one per poster per day)"
On the forum "Post a random song (one per poster per day)". There's a rule that says, for good reason, anyone posting a submission can only make one post per day. this is clearly stated in the Forum rules
"Post one song per poster, per day. This is so the thread doesn't fill up too rapidly."
Now before I posted there I made sure anything I posted would be compliant with the forum rules and familiarised myself with them.
I've just received a PM from troper themayorofsimpleton which states that I did in fact break this forum rule by posting twice on the same day.
With respect, I do not think I did. One posting was made on Sunday evening. The second posting was made on the Monday morning. No previous or subsequent postings were made on either day. Therefore, I was in compliance with the rule copied above. The timestamps on the postings show one was on the 11/5/25 - May 11th - and the second one was on 12/5/25 - May 12th - made approximately 13 hours apart, but on two seperate days.
Could I ask:
Whose time zone are we using to delineate this rule? I work in GMT (well, British Summer time which is GMT +1). Is the forum perhaps using somebody else's time zone as the datum marker? If the default time zone is PST or something that's a long way behind GMT, then maybe it is the case that - inadvertently - I did post twice on the Sunday.
Perhaps the rule at the top of the forum should therefore be clarified -
"Post one song per poster, in any one twenty-four hour period. This is so the thread doesn't fill up too rapidly."
This makes it more objective and therefore less prone to ambiguity?
And yes - I will undertake not to post more than once in any given 24 hour period...
Edited by AgProvopenCan you edit war with yourself?
I'd just like to make sure it's okay to, having deleted your own entry, re-enter it with slightly different wording? Sorry if this is a bit obvious; I'd just like to make absolutely sure. Thanks.
openMy formatting is messed up on Poker Face
With season 2 of Poker Face dropping, I'm trying to divvy up the show's character pages into the main characters, the villains and victims of each episode, and the various characters Charlie meets in each episode. However, while I have the main index boxes up on each sub page, they don't quite look right. I've never made boxes like that before, so I don't quite know what to do there.
EDIT: The reason why the rest of the info is still up on the main page is because I wanted the other two set up before I deleted it. I'm willing to edit in the fixes myself if that will be more helpful.
These are the respective pages.
Edited by JacobyInvestigativeopenTrouble with uploading video example
I'm trying to add a video example for Art Shift, but the video I try to upload is flipped to a vertical resolution for some reason. The video on my phone is not flipped and is horizontal, and getting the video and uploading it on my laptop instead didnt work. The video is still awaiting review, but I dont know why it is flipping itself. Is it because of the file type or something?
openQuestion
First, can I remove self-promotion examples I did for my Sonic fanfics because of Old Shame? Such as the "Blood of Beauty" example on Transplanted Character Fic. (I swear I removed that a long time ago, but someone reinstated it shortly afterwards.)
Second, crazysamaritan removed this example I wrote from the same article for Examples Are Not General:
- A good number of Sonic the Hedgehog fanfics are this. There will usually be no robot-smashing action and the only major connection will be the cast of teenage Amazing Technicolor Funny Animals with distinct personalities that can fit them in every premise. Stories range from Sonic and company in Mundane settings and situations and Brought Down to Normal (High School AUs are the most common type) to them as supernatural creatures such as Vampires.
I still see general examples in the article. Are those kosher or not? Could these be moved to an analysis page?
Edited by PrincessPandaTropeopenDo I need to do anything about a flame-bait flag?
SPOTLIGHTSTEALINGSQUAD: Originally intended as a deconstruction of a [This example contains a Flame Bait entry. It should be moved to the Flame Bait tab.Mary Sue], Sarah became this to Kain and Raziel before Timestreamer Archimedes stole the spotlight from her.
I really don't want to call the character a self-insert. I'm willing to take other suggestions.
openSimilarly Named Works
While editing, have two films with the same name Seventeen Again and Seventeen Again_ (with a _ at the end of the web address). I'm just wondering if this is something I can correct myself or holler at a mod to fix.
Edited by MegaJopenI have a “just for fun” idea: Blue & Orange Wiki
I was thinking we have a death wiki, a sugar wiki, and a neutral wiki (which does need more love as we only have boil the Aesop I think on their), but what about a Blue & Orange Wiki. It’s not bad, it’s not good, it’s just strange. If people say I can create it (or if someone else does), I will dedicate quite a bit of time to make it look thorough and decent even in the starting stages. Some ideas I have for it may be inspired by the death/sugar/neutral wiki respectively. Examples include:
The page image could be a popular stoic character (doesn’t matter if they’re good, evil, neutral), shown laughing and covered with blue and orange clothing/suit/hair/etc.
Character Derailment Service: similar to the villain whitewashing service or paint the hero black service, but instead of focusing on just hero and villains and good and evenly, this page could serve to make dumb characters seem smart, Unhelpful NP Cs/Incompetent Characters/lousy sidekicks seem like they save the world, lazy characters seem like they’re diligent, etc. and vice versa using fridge logic.
Bizzaro That Aesop-twisting works that have a pretty clear aesop(regardless of whether it’s good or bad)/no aesop, and twist it into something completely nonsensical. It doesn’t matter where the actual aesop nor the bizarroed aesop starts and ends on the scale of good and evil (ex. the actual aesop can lean toward lawful good and the bizzaroed aesop can be chaotic good/beau real or evil,), as the point isn’t to make bad Aesops good, the reverse, or simplify Aesop’s, but instead it’s somewhat but not quite an inversion or boil the aesop(except while boil the Aesop’s goal is to make any aesop make sense, this would be to make any aesop seem well bizarre.
Epic Big Lipped Alligator Moments-self explanatory mostly.
Ad of Whuuut?: a bizzaro version of the ad of win/lose page, but ads featured here aren’t epically good or epically bad/yikes, but just plain bizarre.
That Cloudcuckoolander Troper-similar to that one troper and that other troper, but this troper isn’t good nor bad, and usually follows rules(though they might interpret them wrong by accident), and sometimes accidentally drifts into conversation on the main page (not on purpose like that one troper does though).
I probably will brainstorm a few more ideas but I’ve typed so much you guys might get tired.
I know that while we can start to create a works page without asking for it to be approved, we cannot create a new tropes page without going to the trope approving site, but idk about the rule of creating just for fun pages/wikis
Edited by Tvtroper8238openDo Bathroom Search Excuse and Women's Mysteries really overlap?
Perhaps this should be in Is This an Example?, but I'm not talking about a specific example.
On the new trope Bathroom Search Excuse (which is when someone either asks to go to the bathroom but instead goes somewhere else or lies that they were just looking for the bathroom), it says that it can overlap with Women's Mysteries.
But the Women's Mysteries page says that it's defined as "stories, rituals, secrets, etc. which, for reasons of either magic or tradition, only women are permitted to know".
I know that women sometimes enter bathrooms to change tampons (being a woman myself) and I know about the Wondrous Ladies Room and that maybe she's implying she has Morning Sickness? Still odd, though.
Edited by UnicorndanceopenDo we have a general Netflix thread somewhere?
I know we have the Netflix animation thread
, but do we have one for the live-action properties, or even just a thread about the company?
And before you ask, search is still borked. I'd look it up myself if I could.
openWhy?
I've seen some tropers send "Your English is poor" notifiers to me even though I'm fluent in English and tried to write the most grammatically I can. Is this because of the Grammar Nazi mindset they have? I've received these notifiers for AwesomeMusic.Nate Wants To Battle and AwesomeMusic.Club Penguin.
Edited by PrincessPandaTrope

Mariofan99 removed these from YMMV.Shadow Generations citing cleanup
and "Character cant be wasted if they never show up." But the cleanup said to cut the "Plot" examples, not the "Character" ones they also removed. The removals I have questions about.
- They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character:
- Even though Shadow is sent to Sunset Heights and Infinite is a major villain in that game who despises Shadow, Infinite makes no in-person appearance. Instead, Infinite is only shown and mentioned in the concept art and backstory logs within Shadow's Collection Room. My impression was that even a small reference to them means they're in the work enough to qualify as "Wasted". Does this not count as not an in-narrative ref (the Collection Room is fuzzy on if in-universe)?
- Mephiles, a villain heavily associated with time travel, being the Big Bad or at least a major antagonist in a game revolving around time travel would seem like a no-brainer, yet he plays no greater role in the plot outside of his boss fightnote He does show up. So was he removed as the narrative never hinted he's have a bigger role in the story than just a boss fight? Would this be wasted "Plot" as unused narrative potential, or not as the plot of the boss fight was to stop him before he could become such a threat meaning it was used?
- They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot:
- While the game does a good job of representing Shadow's history in the series over the years (even going so far as to bring back Black Doom and Mephiles), there's a notable lack of a stage representation from Shadow's own game. Considering how much the remaster takes from Shadow the Hedgehog (such as bringing back Black Doom as the main antagonist), it's particularly jarring that the game doesn't get its own stage like Adventure 2 and Heroes do. It's even more jarring because Sonic '06 (which erased itself from existence), Sonic Forces (which takes place later in the timeline) and Sonic Frontiers (which doesn't feature Shadow at all) get returning stages, yet there's no stage from Shadow the Hedgehog despite there being a lot of creative and memorable onesnote that could have easily fit the bill. Even the final battle against Devil Doom simply takes place in Radical Highway rather than somewhere like Black Comet, Final Haunt or The Last Way. Since the game is otherwise unashamed about the era Shadow the Hedgehog comes from, it comes across like it's still treated as a lesser entry. Get the criteria for "Characters" needing to be present/alluded to in-work, but what counts as setup for "Plot"? Is the Returning Big Bad and work being the sequel to Shadow not enough setup/allusion for the plots to be considered ignored? If not what is?
- A small point of contention for the story is that the future stages — the ones that take place after the events of Generations from Shadow's perspective — aren't really explored in detail. Shadow never questions what these places are, the only explanation given to their existence is an easily-missed Hand Wave from Gerald, and there's no cameos from those games to go along with them, with many citing Infinite's absence as an especially missed opportunity. Most of the game's stages don't really affect the plot much, but the future stages still give the impression that they were tacked on in comparison; it can't even be justified as representing the games that released between the original Generations and the re-release, as there's no stage for Sonic Lost World to go with them. Misuse because they do get mentions, so they aren't wasted just not used in the way fans wanted?
- Maria (and to a lesser extent, Gerald) never actually get to have any meaningful interactions with Shadow's friends that he's made. While it does make sense given the whole ordeal with the Time Eater's happening at the same time with Black Doom, and the game does try to Hand Wave this by Gerald not wanting to create a paradox, neither of them being able to at least introduce themselves to the likes of Rouge or E-123 Omega could've led to some interesting and heartwarming moments that the story never got the chance to explore. The absolute closest the game gets to featuring any characters interacting with Maria and Gerald is through the optional hub interactions, where Big reveals that he spent time with both of them for a little while, and Omega protecting them off-screen during the final battle. See above two questions.
- Some fans were disappointed that, while there's a cutscene showing Shadow's side of his boss fight with Sonic from the base game, there isn't an actual playable rematch from Shadow's perspective. Not even a simple flip of the original fight's mechanics. Seems like it was setting up a boss fight, only to pull the rug and make it happen in a cutscene. Or was this misuse as wasted "Gameplay", not "Plot"?
Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught