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openRPG Cliches list
Is there a reason Website.The Grand List Of Console Role Playing Game Cliches has 8 small subpages in the Main/ namespace instead of having the list be on the page itself? I'm questioning the organization, not the list itself.
Is this a TRS issue?
openPermission to a re-add some things from an entry of mine that's been condensed Western Animation
A while ago, I added this entry to This Image Is Not an Example:
- Intercom Villainy: The image depicts Alastor in his radio station from the "Stayed Gone" song sequence in the Hazbin Hotel episode "Radio Killed the Video Star". Point is, although Alastor is a villain, he's the Token Evil Teammate of the show's heroes rather than an enemy of them, and in context he has never used his radio system to properly talk to enemies in the usual ways implied by the trope (rather, he uses it to terrorize the inhabitants of Hell and make any feats he succeeds at known). Plus, the aforementioned song sequence involves him joining midway through "Stayed Gone" to interrupt Vox's (the enemy in context, and one of the actual antagonists) performance and curb-stomp the latter's attempt at damaging his public image, with the audience being supposed to root for Alastor rather than Vox.
Some time later, Amonimus heavily condensed
the entry for being too long when compared to other entries on the page.
- Intercom Villainy: The trope is about a villain taunting the hero from a safe location. During the scene, Alastor is a Nominal Hero, who mocks Vox, his rival and an actual villain, on public media.
I noticed that the condensed entry now lacks a link to the work page in question like most other entries on the page do (plus some important aspects regarding the trope itself), so I'd like to change it to this:
- Intercom Villainy: The trope is about a villain taunting the hero from a safe location via a remote communication system. During the scene from Hazbin Hotel, Alastor (the character pictured in the image), a Nominal Hero, mocks Vox, his rival and an actual villain, on public media, in the middle of a Quarreling Song between the two.
May I go ahead with the change? I'm asking because I had previously included the pothole in the original entry pre-condensation, and want to make it clear that I'm not intending to start an Edit War.
Edited by Inky100openAre YMMV entries relating to leaks that have since been officially released allowed?
I was thinking of writing a Ships That Pass in the Night example for a ship that spawned from a leaked image, from a story that is now officially released in which the two characters being shipped do not interact in the story. By the rules around leaks, would it be okay to bring up that the ship started because of a leak? I think it would be somewhat important to add that piece of info, but it's not crucial to the example.
Ideas of what I'd write:
Mentioning the leak:
YMMV.Cookie Run Kingdom - Ships That Pass in the Night - Doughael and Pure Vanilla Cookie. Before the Premonition of Doom story was released, a cutscene leaked that had a brief scene of Doughael and Pure Vanilla Cookie (as Healer Cookie) in the desert together. This immediately caused many fans to start shipping the two characters together and comparing the ship to other Pure Vanilla Cookie ships. Upon the release of the update, the two characters had no direct interaction. Healer Cookie himself is only shown in the aforementioned brief scene, having no dialogue or other appearance in the story.
Without mentioning the leak:
YMMV.Cookie Run Kingdom - Ships That Pass in the Night - Doughael and Pure Vanilla Cookie. In the ending cutscene of the Premonition of Doom story, there is a brief scene that shows Pure Vanilla Cookie (as Healer Cookie) and Doughael standing alongside each other in the desert. Despite Pure Vanilla Cookie not making another appearance in the story and having no dialogue in it, this caused fans to start shipping the two characters and comparing the ship to other Pure Vanilla Cookie ships.
openHow should I go about searching for information on this wiki? Web Original
I know this sounds like the dumbest question in the world, but I wouldn't ask it if I didn't feel like I was missing something. The search function on the site itself (I don't use mobile so I don't know if it's different there) only goes 10 pages of 10 links per search, which is obviously inadequate for deep diving. I've found a way to circumvent it by putting -[insert page I've already seen here] in my search, rinse and repeat as I go along, filtering out more and more stuff to prolong my search as much as I can. However, I can't help but think this is extremely inefficient in a way that might be obvious to everyone except me. So is there something I'm missing here? I am aware I could just do exactly what I'm doing in Google search or something, but I just want to make sure if there is an in-site solution to my problem?
openAre Fandom Rivalry and Friendly Fandoms mutually exclusive? Videogame
On YMMV.Mario Kart World, there's this entry:
- Fandom Rivalry: With Sonic Racing: CrossWorlds, due to the long-time Mario-Sonic rivalry and that both games are looking to expand upon vehicle transformation and otherwise take their respective series in bold new directions.
Seems kind of stubby, just making surface-level comparisons between the two games and the two franchises' history together, but I didn't really question it since Nintendo seems to still get compared to Sega even years after the latter exited the console business.
Then I scrolled down and saw this:
- Friendly Fandoms:
- Despite the historical rivalry and the duel with Sonic Racing: CrossWorlds, Mario Kart World in general has been positively received by fans of Sonic the Hedgehog, due to World's surprisingly robust movement mechanics that seemingly take close inspiration from Sonic itself, namely wall running, "spammable" aerial tricks, and rail grinding. For CrossWorlds specifically, many fans also see it and World as worthy competition which can take the Mascot Racer genre to new heights. It helps that both games are taking different approaches, with Mario focusing on open-world checkpoint racing while Sonic is sticking with circuit tracks.
So which is it? Can both happen at the same time? If not, which do we keep?
openCommented-out note problems
So I've just caught up on Raise Your Voice Against Liars and decided to give its tropes page a long-overdue clean-up. However, when I went in to edit it, I discovered this commented-out note at the top of the page that was apparently added by the authors, the contents of which are making me wary.
Before any more tropes are added here, we feel the need to address something:
Please remember that this AU takes place several months after Miracle Queen, and at the start of the fic, Marinette is still being bullied by Lila and has literally no one helping her besides Luka and Kagami. She's even attempted to commit suicide because of it! It’s what’s called a formative moment for Marinette’s mentality; of course she’s going to change and not be the ‘same Marinette from the show.’
Also, regarding Adrien: we understand he’s going through abuse too, and we agree that such is shitty behavior from Gabriel and Nathalie, but his actions are still his own, and there ARE consequences for them whether they be good or bad! He has barely helped Marinette with Lila, even though he can SEE that Lila is still hurting Marinette! Also, so far in the fic, the Phantom Thieves aren’t completely aware of Adrien’s situation at home. They only know as much as Marinette, Nino, and the other Parisians have told them. Obviously, due to this lack of knowledge, they will treat him in ways that some might consider being too harsh. When/if they actually come to understand what’s really going on in Adrien's home life, chances are they’ll change their tune a little, but right now, in THEIR minds, there’s not really a reason for them to do so. Please keep that in mind when you’re making your edits to this TV Tropes page.
The story itself has pointed out they both had full knowledge of his home life and were completely in the wrong for their continued harsh treatment of him. He deserved consequences for how he handled Lila, but he grew as a person and they knowingly left him in the care of a murderer. Please keep that in mind as well.
I'm well-aware that Adrien's already a controversial character in ML, and that said controversy bled into the fic's reception and then some; I haven't checked the edit history of the page, but I'm getting the distinct feeling there may have been an edit war or two about it. However, well-intentioned or not, this is still basically the author telling others how they have to edit the page, right?
Between that and how it's artificially inflating the page length, is it okay for me to remove this?
Edited by Storygirl000openExample seems too defensively-written
On Characters.James And The Giant Peach, there's this example on the Centipede's folder:
- The Millstone: In the book, his sole contribution to the party is gnawing over the peach stalk and getting it rolling. After that, he mainly makes nuisances of himself (though he does get some of the funniest lines and sings most of the books' songs).
I feel like the part in parentheses seems too much like it's trying to defend the Centipede, and seems too partisan.
openDoes this fit as Even Evil Has Standards? Videogame
In Poppy Playtime, the corrupt, child experiment supporting evil CEO Leith Pierre, after a catastrophe happens in his factory's theater, does something to a large group of people that another executives questions they had to do. (It's heavily implied the theater burned down and he trapped the the theatergoers inside to protect company secrets, denying them a chance to evacuate and survive). However, it's Leith who people say Even Evil Has Standards applies to.
- Even Evil Has Standards: Leith is a vile man, but he was enraged at Harley Sawyer when Gerad Lockharte accused the latter of causing the Theater Incident [...]
resolved Theme Parks under No Real Life Examples Please? What's the stance/scope?
So, on some pages under No Real Life Examples, Please! (e.g., Americans Hate Tingle), there is a folder for theme parks, which isn't too bad by itself, but several examples list entire parks (Disneyland Paris, Universal Studios Japan, etc) which are real-life places, so I want to question, does their inclusion violate No Real Life Examples, Please!?
My assumption is that:
- Specific theme park rides within the parks(Haunted Mansion, Small World, Wizarding World of HP, Super Nintendo World, etc)/characters original to theme parks/rides (e.g., Duffy, Figment, Hitchhiking Ghosts, etc) - Fine to add and doesn't violate NRLEP since they're works/characters.
- Theme parks as a whole (like listing Disneyland Paris under Americans Hate Tingle) - Violation of NRLEP since theme parks are real-life locales.
But I understand there is a grey area given the nature of theme parks (not unlike sports), and correct me if I'm wrong.
Edited by Tylerbear12openPage moves/edits without approval
I made a request here
mentioning that Series.Clarence and WesternAnimation.Clarence should have 1988 and 2014 respectively. I had no response if I can do that move myself or not.
I also made another request here
on Ask The Tropers where a page titled MediaNotes.Hot Ones Actors sounds like an accurate name.
resolved YMMY page for The Cape (2012)
I've a question about the page for the comic book miniseries The Cape
. My question comes from the fact that long time ago, Eric Chase from the series was approved as a CM by the troper Ravok and since the page was created long after his approval, it is not on the YMMY page (in fact, there is no YMMY page abouyt the comic). Here's the entry:
Eric Chase is a lazy and selfish sociopath who discovers that his childhood cape grants him the ability of flight, and chooses to use this power to stroke his own ego. First brutally murdering his girlfriend after he becomes paranoid she is cheating on him, Eric, as detailed in the interquel Fallen, is struck by a crisis of conscience that he ultimately ignores, embracing his inner vileness as he massacres an entire group of LAR Pers he was hanging out with. Later using his own mother as a hostage in an attempt to burn his hated brother alive, Eric murders several police officers investigating him — a pair of them by dropping a live bear on top of their car — before downing an entire airplane his mother is on, killing her and hundreds of people at once. Though once a sweet child desperate for his father's approval, Eric knowingly and willingly becomes a monster in adulthood, refusing to take guilt or responsibility for his life and instead blaming everyone around him for his faults, and deciding that the punishment for them all should be death.
My question is if I can add the entry and the YMMY page myself, if I should mention it here, or if a thread for the matter exists.
openReporting myself for changing image without Image Pickin' thread
A while back, I changed the image for L'État, c'est moi, but I got ahead of myself and only realized I was supposed to make an Image Pickin' thread after the fact. I've gone back and reverted to the original image while dummying out the new one(s) until I figure out what to do about it.
Should I start an image pickin' thread now? Should I just delete the dummied out images? Was my infraction particularly bad?
Edited by DancouMaryuuopenReporting an Edit War.
Yesterday, Tropers/This_One_Sara added
an Unintentionally Unsympathetic sub-entry on the YMMV page for Dragon Age: The Veilguard regarding the character Taash in the scene where they come out as Non-Binary to their mother, Shathann.
I removed
the entry, giving an admittedly lengthy edit reason in the process, due to feeling that it was misrepresenting what happened during the scene, claiming that Taash lashed out "immediately", when it reality it didn't happen until towards the end of the conversation, after they had reached their breaking point as a result of:
1) The stress that often comes with coming out to a parent (made evident by Taash's hesitance to come out to Shathann both prior to this scene and right before they say they're Non-Binary)
2) Shathann seemingly not being supportive of them (saying in a stern tone "If this is because I criticized your dress or your manners..." right after Taash comes out to her and explains what being Non-Binary is, and then suggesting to Taash, in that same stern tone, that they might be "aqun-athlok" (for context, in the Qunari language, that's the term for someone who doesn't identify as their birth gender, which would be accurate if it weren't for the fact that, in Qunari culture, people's gender identities are determined by their roles within the Qun, which are designated as being either male or female, so being Non-Binary is a foreign concept to the Qun, meaning that as far as the Qun is concerned, there are only trans men and trans women, so Shathann was essentially suggesting to Taash that they might be a trans man, even though they had already explained to her that they don't identify as a man or a woman) and then telling them "Shokra toh ebra" (a Qunari phrase that translates to "You must struggle with who you are", which is meant to be a phrase of encouragement to find yourself, but Taash doesn't learn that until the end of their questline, which hasn't happened yet, so from Taash's perspective it sounds like Shathann is telling them to just put up with their gender dysphoria, which is not helped by the fact that Shathann is still speaking in a stern tone) and it is only then that Taash finally lashes out).
The entry also tried to use Shathann's cultural upbringing as an excuse for why they couldn't understand the concept of being Non-Binary after it was explained to her in the simplest, most easy to understand way possible, due to it being a foreign concept to her culture, even though she gave Taash that same cultural upbringing and they understand the concept just fine.
I have just seen that Tropers/This_One_Sara has re-added
the entry without discussion, and in doing so, has started an edit war.
openSEO
Hello everyone! I appreciate it may not be asking in the right place, but may search engine optimisation matters be discussed? With My Hero Academia as an example, excellently what could be called the most prominent areas are appearing when the series is searched for using Google Chrome for instance where it’s certainly helpful for readers to come across the Manga main page, and the characters as well for the top search results.
When the Search feature here on TV Tropes is used however, the current top results are the Dethroning Moment / My Hero Academia - TV Tropes and Fanfic Recs / My Hero Academia - TV Tropes areas https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/search_result.php?cx=partner-pub-6610802604051523%3Aamzitfn8e7v&cof=FORID%3A10&ie=ISO-8859-1&siteurl=&ref=&ss=&q=my+hero+academia#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=my%20hero%20academia&gsc.page=1
It’s wonderful that people are free to share their views and those areas are important, yet where an average reader is concerned would it be better if the main page and character ones were appearing first for them to see?
If search data for TV Tropes does show that readers are seeking out these pages and those are in practice better to be at the top of the results then that’s all good. However if not then it may be best if the main articles concerning the series itself appear first. Improved SEO might help readers more readily locate what they are searching for which would help them and the TV Tropes site itself.
Should it be new information, this might be something that just concerns My Hero Academia. Searching for various series brings up what would be the most notable areas for them. It’s franchises such as Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, then TV series such as House of the Dragon that all have the same setup. Anime series such as Attack on Titan are similar, it’s just for whatever reason My Hero Academia has its own thing going on!
If the current setup is helpful for what is best here that’s good, but if it’s beneficial to point out, then should there be technical updates to ensure that these pages appear first? https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Manga/MyHeroAcademia
(and) https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/MyHeroAcademia
Not sure if that’s even useful to share, but being of the view that all the lovely articles should be available IMMEDIATELY! thought it might be helpful to raise in any case!
openEdit war to remove/WGS misuse?
Characters.Duck Tales 2017 FOWL
- Wrong Genre Savvy: While [[GenreSavvy well-versed in adventure tropes]], [[spoiler:Bradford]] ultimately falls into this. He operates under the assumption he's the villain in a ConspiracyThriller, as opposed to a TwoFistedTales-style adventure series set in a FantasyKitchenSink. This makes him more of a NoNonsenseNemesis than the rest of the RoguesGallery since unlike them, he is ''not'' a showboating CardCarryingVillain, instead preferring to work behind the scenes and abide by PragmaticVillainy. It also causes him to shoot himself, most notably in the GrandFinale. [[spoiler:His grounded and coldly logical view of the world would have perhaps netted him a victory in the more cynical story he thinks he's in, but the fact he's in a show all about [[ThePowerOfLove the importance and power of family]] blinds him to the loophole that leads to his defeat.]]
The troper who added this previously added Genre Savvy as a separate entry which I removed as misuse (GE is savvy with/from in-universe fiction, Bradford is instead Taught by Experience as it comes from his real-life within the show experience). Is it edit waring to remove the pothole?
On the topic, I've seen some Wrong Genre Savvy removed due to lacking the in-universe fiction criteria, but not widely enough it seems like a hard and fast rule like with regular Genre Savvy. Can I get some clarification about that?
openEdit war and grammar issues
On Command & Conquer: Red Alert Series — Soviet Units, after I removed the Heavily Armored Mook example for being misuse (the unit in question only has better armour than another faction's counterpart and is still rather lightly armoured by the whole game's standards), Darth Walrus (who originally added this example) added it back without any discussion. Some of their recent edits on Command & Conquer: Red Alert Series — Allied Units and Command & Conquer: Red Alert Series — Empire of the Rising Sun Units also have rather dodgy grammar (with sentences like 'The Harbinger is the third most air unit in the game by default; taking Advanced Aeronautics upgrades it to second place, with ever-so-slightly more hp than the Kirov.' and 'It that can win the third Imperial campaign mission by itself').
Edited by HTDopenStarting a thread for Self Demonstrating Character Pages
It's a common thing for Self-Demonstrating character pages to get cut for not meeting the specific conditions regarding pages, as quoted directly from the page:
- Does the character have an interesting speech pattern?
- Does a specific quirk of that character translate well to an article?
- Does the character have a unique personality, not a stock character type, that can be maintained for the entirety of the page?
However, a key problem is that there is a small amount of users who don't really look into these conditions, which is why some pages later get cut for not meeting them.
I believe that we need a thread to help brainstorm ideas for which characters should get Self-Demonstrating Character Pages, and find ways to make them work within the conditions laid out on the page. Perhaps we could provide tips on how to make a character come off as less "generic" when writing a page coming from their point of view. I don't know which forum the possible thread could belong to, but that could also be a question to be answered.
resolved About Dear Negative Reader
I wanted to add an example of Dear Negative Reader to Trivia.Saints Row 2022, I saw that an example already exists on Main.Dear Negative Reader, but it's complainy and bloaty:
- Saints Row (2022) became rather infamous for this. The game was announced as a reboot of the Saints Row series that was Revisiting the Roots, and fans were initially hyped with the graffiti wall art that updated itself leading up to the announcement trailer's release. However, when said trailer dropped, the fans' reactions to it were quite negative. In response, the community managers at Deep Silver, the series' publisher since Saints Row IV, started badmouthing people who were unhappy with the reboot's direction, including making tweets like "Haters gonna hate", and deleting negative comments that criticized series developer Volition from the reboot's videos. Although Volition apologized and removed the offending tweet, the damage was done. Many people were turned off by the game's direction and Deep Silver's hostility towards the fanbase and swore off playing the Saints Row reboot, while those who stuck around and played the game found it to be an Obvious Beta, despite being delayed from its intended February 2022 release date to August for quality assurance purposes. This caused the reboot to underperform critically and financially, which resulted in Embracer Group, the parent company of Deep Silver, transferring Volition's staff to Gearbox Software and then subsequently shutting down the company in August of 2023, just a year after the reboot's launch.
I then managed to cut it down to this:
- After the inital trailer for Saints Row (2022) dropped, The community managers at Deep Silver, the series' publisher since Saints Row IV, started badmouthing people who were unhappy with the reboot's direction, including making tweets like "Haters gonna hate", and deleting comments that criticized series developer Volition from the reboot's videos for a while before the game's release.
I've also seen plenty of examples that are just complaining about creators engaging in this, like the one about Bomberman Act:Zero:
- Hudson Soft infamously had a huge meltdown in response to the equally infamous Bomberman Act:Zero's negative reception and posted an article
on their website primarily dedicated to attacking fans and defending Act Zero. As it repeatedly insulted the older Bomberman games by insinuating they were meant for children, undermined fan favorite Saturn Bomberman's ten-player mode, heavily implied that the only people who played the single-player modes in Bomberman games were losers,note Most likely due to Act:Zero's singleplayer mode getting heavy criticism for Fake Difficulty. and told fans who were upset to play with Hello Kitty toys... yeah, it didn't go over well. It didn't help that the series was already going through an Audience-Alienating Era. While Hudson eventually apologized for the piece, the damage was done—several gaming sites lambasted them for the public tantrum and the controversy ultimately played a hand in their 2012 bankruptcy and merger with Konami.
This all makes me wonder, should we take this trope to TRS? Just the very nature of it just attracts creator bashing and drama importation. And should I go ahead with replacing the Saints Row example that I just cut down?
Edited by PlasmaPower

This was deleted and replaced from YMMV.The Legend Of Heroes Trails Through Daybreak:
I feel like in cases like these, it can be kept as a historical example but I wanna make sure cause I don't wanna cause any drama.