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openDetermining whether certain content is "official" enough to trope
I'm looking to have a conversation on whether certain content can be official enough to be included as part of a work's (character) page, and kinda found myself stumped on finding a specific forum threat to ask this in due to the specific nature of the work in question, so I'm just gonna try here and see if anyone can help me out.
Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition has 12 character classes that developers Wizards of the Coast consider "official" canonnote Artificer was a late addition which was not in the game's SRD, but that's an issue for another time, and those classes are documented appropriately on Dungeons & Dragons Classes: Fifth Edition Classes. However, I'm wondering if there's enough room to document the additional "unofficial, yet WotC-endorsed" classes of Blood Hunter and Illrigger, both of which are technically homebrew content created by third-party developers, but are available as selectable character options on D&D Beyond, what has become WotC's official toolset/digital platform for maintaining games of D&D.
Something that may give this precedent is that back in Dungeons & Dragons 3rd Edition (especially 3.5E), there used to be PrestigeClasses — extra character classes beyond the central "core" lineup exclusive to certain sourcebooks. Due to not being core classes, they aren't referenced as part of the game's official, vanilla lineup and "canon" means of play, but they were options that WotC considered official enough to publish, and they're evidently enough to warrant a character page specifically to document them. Blood Hunter and Illrigger fall into a similar grey area for 5E, but I'd like a second, well-informed opinion of anyone who can piece together whether this makes sense, and whether or not we can trope those content as part of Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition (with an understanding that it is only kinda-sorta-official).
Edited by number9roboticopenVandalism/gushing
Borught up here
, but I saw some bits that I'm certain are gushing on top of natter, and had to double-check if the troper's edits were natter on other pages too (the troper self-admitted in the edit reason, and they appear to be new, only having five edits).
On Characters.Sonic Boom Antagonists, in this edit
for Shadow the Hedgehog:
- Adaptational Jerkass: Shadow was never a saint, but he wasn't malicious and had several close friends. His original version was a Consummate Professional whose rivalry with Sonic was built around either seeing Sonic as a Worthy Opponent or an obstacle in the way. This version of Shadow is an arrogant (yet awesome) bastard who mocks Sonic for relying on his friends and wants nothing to do with them in the games. In the TV show, he's also a case of Vile Villain, Saccharine Show, being a villain that even intimidates Eggman, and knocks everyone else out of the way so he can fight Sonic one-on-one, and even then his motivations can be seen as petty.
- One-Man Army: He absolutely destroys Team Sonic like the scrubs they are, all by himself, just like the badass he is.
And these edits in Characters.Dragon Ball Z Abridged Movies for Broly here
- Hulk Speak: Just like the Trope Namer, he speaks like this after his homicidal personality surfaces.
Broly: Excuse Broly? (Rebel's Version: "Excuse me?")
- Mythology Gag: When Broly attempts to describe himself.
Broly: Monster? Broly's not a monster. Broly is a... huh...\ (Rebel's Version: Monster, you say?! I'm not a monster! I am... hmm...)Gohan: A genuine demon? note What Broly refers to himself as in the AB Groupe "Big Green" dub
—>Goku: A true freak? note What Broly refers to himself as in the Funimation dub
—>Broly: The Devil. note How Broly refers to himself in the original Japanese version and the Speedy dub
—>Vegeta: OH MY GOD, HE'S SO GODDAMN COOL! - Pre-Mortem One-Liner: Arguably, it's ambiguous whether he knew it would kill him or he simply didn't know his own strength. However, what is the last thing he says to his dad before crushing his pod (and him)? "HUG!" (Rebel's Version: "DEATH WAITS FOR NO ONE!")
- Pokémon Speak: As LSSJ, he devolves into Hulk Speak and then into saying only "Kakarot!" And also "hug"...while crushing his dad to death. Rebel's Version defies this with a huge passion.
- His general impatience even in casual conversation, especially in his Legendary form, also mirrors that of the aforementioned fans when they kept asking for Broly's movie to get the Abridged treatment.
Broly: BROLY DOES NOT LIKE TO WAIT! (Rebel's Version: "TIME'S UP, MOTHERFUCKER!")- Played straight after becoming the Legendary Super Saiyan: his interest in Trunks has increased to the point he thinks Trunks is his property.
Vegeta: You've been ignoring someone this entire time.
Broly: Broly's wife?\ (Rebel's Version Are you referring...to Trunks?
Trunks: Well, technically, I was the one who killed Freeza.
Broly: That's hot.
This is all grounds for vandalism and I can remove without issue, correct? I should also send both a natter and gushing notifiers too?
openThis "Does This Remind You of A" Entry in Smiling Friends Western Animation
So, there is an entry in the President Jimble section of the Smiling Friends: Clients that goes like this:
- Does This Remind You of Anything?: He pretty much combines the worst qualities and accusations of presidents Donald Trump and Joe Biden.
- Like Trump, Jimble is a Fat Slob in an ill-fitting suit with ego-centered problems and selfish motivations, abused the "presidential alert" system, endorses a widely-condemned foreign dictator and is widely condemned by the international community and local media.
- Like Joe Biden, Jimble is a former Vice President coasting on his predecessor's goodwill, constantly making verbal gaffes during speeches, undermined by his health issues, under fire for supporting a foreign leader who's widely condemned by the international community while, at the other end, receiving extreme support from local media.
Should this be on the page since it sounds a little too political for the general characters' page (granted, the episode that features President Jimble is political, but the episode never made this distinction).
resolved BaseBreakingCharacter EditWar on FFXIV Page. Videogame
Recently Final Fantasy XIV released it's newest expansion, and there has been division about the main focal point character for it, Wuk Lamat. Already people have jumped to adding her as a Base-Breaking Character (someone even put her on The Scrappy about two weeks after the expansion came out before it was removed), despite the expansion only being out for barely a month as of now despite the rules stating otherwise.
Walker B Riley recently added the entry after it was already removed, so I removed it and mentioned how the expansion was new and even if true needs to be discussed first because of how polarizing the subject is, but instead he went ahead and readded it to the YMMV page with the following: "Stop removing her from the list. Wuk Lamat is the single most basebreaking character introduced since Zenos."
Even if the BBC entry is not needing the 6 month period cause its an expansion, they still readded a removed entry without going to discussion. The entry itself is doesn't work well even if it is okay to add her as it is short and barely explains anything: "Wuk Lamat has divided the fanbase in two with her portrayal either praised or hated. The consensus on both sides is she did receive more story involvement that was potentially necessary."
Edited by keyblade333openYMMV misuse
- Designated Hero: While Mace Windu isn't without his heroic moments, he has also proven himself to be a bit callous and thoughtless of the feelings of others. In Attack of the Clones, he beheads Jango Fett instead of disarming him and his face afterwards seem to suggest he doesn't care that Jango was a person (though in his defense, he was defending himself), and in The Clone Wars he doesn't apologize or try to explain himself to Boba Fett (and by that point, he knew that Boba saw him behead Jango), instead basically telling him to get over it. Later on in the series, when dealing with Ahsoka, as he ultimately concedes to Tarkin's demands to excommunicate her and then when she proven innocent, rationalizes the whole ordeal as a great trial by the Force that was meant to happen to make her a great Jedi (which, while possible, feels as though he is trying to deflect blame). Lastly, in Revenge of the Sith (despite having treated him cordially through The Clone Wars) he is distrusting and rude to Anakin, giving him orders to spy on Palpatine, someone Anakin viewed as a close friend and mentor for many years, while at the same time openly talking down to Anakin in front of the council and telling Obi-Wan and Yoda that he doesn't trust him behind Anikin's back. For an altruist keeper of the peace, Mace's conduct towards others can feel bit unbecoming at times, making him feel more like a prick who barely cares for others unless if it benefits his cause.
YMMV cannot be downplayed or played with so misuse.
I deleted the original version as someone else removed it
from DesignatedHero.Live Action Films arguing the work treated it as Necessarily Evil rather than ignore the unheroic parts. Should it be removed?
openI think this removed example is valid
Saving Bikini Bottom: The Sandy Cheeks Movie
- Special Effect Failure: In Sue Nahmee's flashback of her as a child, they have the child's actresses' face covered by her adult actress and key frame it. It looks noticeably choppy and doesn't match the movement of the original actress. It doesn't help that The George Lopez Show did the same thing and made it look better despite a 20-year gap in editing technology.
I don't think this was an intentionally bad special effect. They do the exact same messy keyframing with her adult self's head over the robot body in the climax. I have heard a lot of debate over whether the flashback's effects were supposed to be a joke, but given the movie's low budget and Direct-to-Video nature, I think the effect was actually intended to look good.
resolved Misuse of Archive namespace.
Today, miwaco has created Archive.Kaiserreich Legacy Of The Weltkrieg, which is associated with VideoGame.Kaiserreich Legacy Of The Weltkrieg. The edit reasons and the page itself claim that it's there to "hold the various tropes on Kaiserreich that are no longer true in the current versions of the mod", which is not what the Archive/ namespace is for. It should be for stuff that mods create never to be edited again.
This issue reminds me of a recent ATT
that reported another page created in Archive/.
resolved Wrong namespace? Web Original
I was looking through the videos on the VideoExamples.Super Mario Bros page for potential videos that could be kept there, when I came across JustForFun.SMB Plumbing page.
At first I thought, "okay, this is a troper trying to have fun with that Advertising Campaign / ARG website where it's like it's going to the in-universe website where Mario and Luigi are running it"
But then I looked at it and saw it cataloged the actual thing the website was and how it worked both in and out of universe (the page itself might need some cleanup).
I couldn't find a forum thread immediately for a problem like this, but am I correct in thinking this shouldn't be a Just for Fun page, and should go to a different namespace like a Website?
resolved A page in a very bad shape Literature
I stumbled upon Literature.Ill Become A Villianess Who Goes Down In History (title misspelled; it's supposed to be "I'll Become A Villainess Who Goes Down In History") and the whole page is a mess.
- As said before, the title itself is misspelled.
- The work does indeed exist, but there's no proper description for it.
- Spacing is whack.
- And so is the grammar.
Permission to copy the text, get the page cutlisted, and start all over?
Edited by moxedenopenAudience Alienating Premise Literature cleanup
Under Audience-Alienating Premise, I noticed much under the Literature folder lacks the required objective proof of audiences alienation. It's going to be a big enough removal I'm getting feedback here first.
Literature can self publish and doesn't have the sales criteria that are normal proof of audience alienation. So I ask if it is possible to judge if literature applies?
Many of them use as proof they haven't been adapted, that seems like tedious proof (many even well received work don't get adapted), does that count?
openLarge removal of 'Unintentionally Sympathetic/Unsympathetic from YMMV/ShatteredSkiesTheMorningLights
Flare up from a bit ago that seems like a problematic edit.
By user Rbookchild
, it basically nuked the unintentionally sympathetic and unsympathetic sections because they disagreed with them. Which I am certainly aware does happen, but its also 'Your Mileage May Vary' and I've seen sentiments of that nature shared about the fic both in how many people edited or added to those sections here or commented elsewhere on the matter, so there are people with this opinion out there. Seems like a pretty clear case, and honestly I wouldn't hesitate to put it back myself and send a PM to Rbook on the matter, and I did send a PM a month ago that never got responded to, but I had previously edited the section twice. I neither created it or was the last one to edit it, and one of the edits was a general clean-up on the page that was previously unalphabetized, but I don't know if that would count as an edit war or not due to those edits, hence bringing it up here to avoid any issues.
openCreator's Pet misuse/complaining? Print Comic
I was looking at the CreatorsPet.Marvel Universe page, and I noticed a lengthy entry regarding multiple characters from Avengers Arena and Avengers Undercover — namely the Braddock Academy kids (mostly Apex and Anachronism), Cammi, and Arcade. Judging by a previous example removal on the page, I'm not sure if the examples qualify for the trope, and indeed at least some of it seems like complaining; on the other hand, bias on my part (let's just say I loathed Arena and Undercover in part because of some of the reasons listed in the example) is making me second-guess removing it. So I figured it'd probably better if I got a more neutral party to clarify whether or not it qualifies as misuse/complaining, because I don't think I can trust myself to make that decision.
openIs this an insufficient edit reason for removal?
Hero The Brine removed an Ambiguously Bi entry I added to the character Kyoka Jiro, but their only edit reason was "The reasons provided of there being sings of her attraction/relationship with Momo were false.", yet they don't elaborate further nor do they provide any evidence.
Is that a sufficient enough edit reason for removal, or is it insufficient meaning I can restore it without enacting an Edit War?
The entry in question:
- Ambiguously Bi: While Jiro receives plenty of Ship Tease with Kaminari to the point Sero asks if they're dating in Chapter 431 which Jiro denies, her bond with Yaoyorozu at times comes across as romantic too. She is very defensive of Yaoyorozu and regularly expresses concern for when she exposes her body even if Yaoyorozu herself doesn't; plenty of supplementary material like promotional art, sketches from Horikoshi, and depictions in ED's cast the two of them together; and info released after the series conclusion all but says the two now live together, with Midoriya's photo of the two of them having them coming from grocery shopping, making it look like they're a sapphic couple living together.
openSelf-Demonstrating page interaction entry removed without reason
About a couple days ago, WELLBEBACK7653 removed
this interaction entry from Self-Demonstrating.Alastor without citing an edit reason.
- SOMEBODY GET THIS DERANGED EMBODIMENT OF LUST AWAY FROM ME BECAUSE I CAN'T EVEN MAKE THE MOVE TO TEAR HER TO PIECEEEEES!!!!! note Angel: Let me think... no. Actually, you two should kiss. Alastor: ANGELLLLLL!!!
Personally, I see nothing wrong with this entry, so could it be added back without problem?
I've already notified WELLBEBACK about this query.
resolved About Canby's Christmas elves...
While I was looking through the Christmas Elves trope, I stumbled upon this section on the Literature folder: "In the 1880s, Margaret T. Canby speculated that Santa got his elves one year when so many children had been good that he just couldn't do everything himself. They normally lived underground in winter and mined for treasure like Tolkien dwarves, but this group was getting bored with that and wanted to see the world", and it says that this is featured in Birdie and his Fairy Friends.
Thing is, I tried looking everywhere on that book and I couldn't find that specific info. about the elves. Does someone know where exactly does it say this?
resolved "Blitzo" or "Blitzø" for ''Helluva Boss'' main character? Web Original
There's been a bit of a back and forth between myself and another editor—TheAmazingBlachman—as to whether or not the main character of Helluva Boss' name should be spelled "Blitzo" or "Blitzø".
For context—the main character in question is an imp assassin who in his youth was a circus clown named "Blitzo", but as an adult he spells his name "Blitzø" (how it's spelled on official merch and in the credits, with the "ø" representing a crossed-out "o") or "Blitz⦻" (how it's spelled in the episode "Truth Seekers"—again to emphasize that the "o" has been crossed out) and pronounces it "Blitz" (which is how some of the other characters spell it) in order to make himself sound more mature and badass.
TheAmazingBlachman's point of contention, to my understanding, is that "ø" is an actual letter in several languages, and therefore Helluva Boss improperly using it in the main character's name to represent a crossed-out "o" comes across as nonsensical to speakers of those languages—akin to a played-straight usage of The Backwards Я. Ergo, TheAmazingBlachman has been going through and changing "Blitzø" to "Blitzo" because—to quote the editing reason—"Ø is an actual letter, not a silent O, and his name sure isn't Blitz-euh."
I'm personally of the opinion that—at least when referring to the character as an adult—his name should be spelled how the series does in the credits and official merch, but our discussion in DMs was going in circles without resolution so I figured the matter should be taken to ATT for a vote rather than risk an edit war starting up.
resolved Should these be Creator or Useful Notes?
A few months back
, someone suggested moving Karl Marx from the Creator namespace to the Useful Notes namespace, arguing that his writings are not tropeworthy but the man himself makes enough appearances in media (as a Historical Domain Character) to warrant coverage on Useful Notes. I made a similar argument for Cicero.
There seemed be some support for a move, but I think I would like a greater consensus. In addition, I know how to change page type, but I'm not too sure what to do after that (aside from culling the trope lists).
openProblem troper
Urania 1204 re-added ZC Es without actually adding context to the entry itself on at least two separate occasions (here)
and here
. They've also misused tropes
, and added aversions as an example here
. I've sent notifiers and reverted edits where someone else hasn't already done so, but given that and their prior conduct (including in a previous ATT query thread
), what should be done next?
openAmerican / British Spelling
If a user creates a work page and uses British conventions (dd-mm-yyyy date format and British spellings) on a first come, first served basis (as noted here
), why some users try to fix it to American conventions (mm-dd-yyyy and American spellings)?
The date format topic itself was already mentioned here in this thread: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=16448794840A29114500&page=1

This question involves the final episode of one of those rather important older anime series, so if you're interested in Revolutionary Girl Utena and haven't seen it, this spoiler warning is for you.
Here's my question:
"Revolutionary Girl Utena E 39 Someday We Will Shine Together", has an example of Screw This, I'm Outta Here!. At two points in 2024 I deleted one of its two bullets on the basis that the event in question does not meet the trope's "unplanned departure" criteria (the character who leaves pays a visit to another character to say that she's leaving, and is then shown walking away with a suitcase). Now that I think about it, it's a better fit for Won't Do Your Dirty Work.
Recently another editor added this event under Screw This, I'm Outta Here! again. I don't want to be a wonk about this and I'm already uncomfortable with having deleted it twice. The event in question is a key moment in the story and as such, editors like to mention it in as many examples as possible. So if I delete it again the odds are good that someone else will add it back before long.
Am I interpreting this trope too strictly? I've been treating "unplanned" as something along the lines of "spontaneous"—maybe I'm setting the bar too high?
Or maybe I'm second guessing myself too much and what I need is a commented out message to discourage people from adding this to Screw This, I'm Outta Here!?
Edited by ShivaIndis