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resolved Possible ROCEJ pattern
nm3youtube has made a few edits lately that may be worth looking into for their potential ROCEJ-ness.
- On this page
, they turned this paragraph:
- While Belos was already feared as an authoritarian dictator his motives of being an anti-witch zealot and his abuse of Hunter make him far more terrifying, due to the abuse the real people face under religious households, and the atrocities committed in their name.
- into this (a lot more religiously/politically charged):
- While Belos was already feared as an authoritarian dictator his motives of being an anti-witch zealot and his abuse of Hunter make him far more terrifying, due to the abuse real people—especially LGBT people, who are readily accepted in the Boiling Isles, and people with interests their family considers "Satanic"—which is potentially everything even alluding to the concept of magic—face under fundamentalist religious households, and the atrocities both historical and modern religious zealots have committed in their God's name.
- Here
, as part of a Values Dissonance page, they changed a simple "...especially in The New '10s" to "...especially in The New '10s when J. K. Rowling's increasingly outspoken transphobia caused people to start paying attention to the series' politics".
- Then there's this (rather irrelevant) note they added to an entry on a SBIH page
:
- which became Hilarious in Hindsight when Russian dictator Vladimir Putin compared the shunning of Russia after the 2022 invasion of Ukraine to the controversy surrounding J. K. Rowling's outspoken transphobia, forcing Rowling to explicitly distance herself from him
openNon-YMMV trope on YMMV page
On the YMMV page for Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers, lorgskyegon added this:
- Mistaken for Racist: It wasn't until ten episodes into the series that anyone from the cast or crew realized the implications of casting a black man as the Black Ranger and an Asian woman as the Yellow Ranger, but that was never the intention. Thuy Trang was actually a last-minute casting to replace the original Hispanic actress who quit holding out for a larger paycheck. Walter Jones was originally cast as the Blue Ranger. The producers wanted him to switch because the Black and Red Rangers were best friends in the Japanese footage and Jason and Zack were portrayed as such in the American footage. Jones agreed because he liked the Black Ranger costume better.
The problem is that the trope is not a YMMV trope or an Audience Reaction and the example is referring to something involving the production of the show rather than the show itself. What should be done about it? Should it be moved to something like Mis-blamed, moved to a different page, or just deleted outright?
openJackpot21 edit war in Ladybug's fridge page Western Animation
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Fridge/MiraculousLadybug
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Tropers/Jackpot21
Yep.
Though this time, hopefully this is a more straightforward case that won't turn into a shouting match.
So yesterday Jackpot was on the Ladybug fridge page and removed a few entries, a concept I personally find rather poor in taste. For some of the removed bits Jackpot gives a reason.
...
Alya already established herself worthy of being a heroine nor has Cholé been contrasted with the other heroes. Marinette and Adrien have had several slip ups that go ignored like Juleka, but even then that isn’t enough to say she’s a terrible liar.
...
TLDR on the first one, there are a series of fridge observations regarding Chloe B and her (fanbase aggravating) rise and fall in hero worth that compare and contrast and several of them, though not all of them, were removed by Jackpot. For example how Marinette's stress dreams in Sentibubbler where Chloe (and Cat Blanc) appeared could be because Marinette was more hurt by the Chloe fall than she lets on, or that she sees self-hypocrisy in giving Alya her miraculous full time (the latter part Jackpot keeps), and how one can contrast Alya specifically distracting Marinette's friends in another episode with a fake bad ankle, thus helping Marinette sneak off and drawing a comparison with how Chloe would act in a 'oh hey an Akuma, time to be Queen Bee' scenario in season 3 at several points. (This builds off several other fridges by several others, including myself, in contrasts with Chloe with things like her replacement's costume, the hero King Monkey and how his development contrasts with that of Queen Bee, and an entry of mine that Jackpot had deleted some time ago comparing Chloe's actions to that of the other temp heroes in one episode)
So, while I decided that my own entry on Juleka's noticeable secret identity slip ups was probably not worth fighting for, I restored most of what Jackpot had removed. The page is edited fairly often by myself and others, so these entries were all either by others or ideas I had submitted and had been edited by others into an new form over the course of other edits over the course of months (being tweaked with words and links by others to better the entry), noting to Jackpot where the Alya and Chloe comparison stuff had come from and a bit on how I don't see the problem in people having their own fridge conclusions you don't agree with.
Like people can think about stuff in the plot that isn't being said aloud that you don't necessarily agree with, and it can still be there.
So afterwards I have a bit of a spree of ideas and do a few more edit bits into Ladybug's fridge page, a few more ideas, a few expanding sentences for context, a few spelling corrections, some stuff like that.
Then comes the Edit War, where Jackpot removes a few of the same entries again. The removed entries the first and second time by Jackpot are.
...
- Trixx is in the Miracle Box when Luka rushes to retrieve Sass. It’s likely that Alya occasionally returns her Kwami to the box to throw off Shadow Moth, as was done in episodes like Hack-San.
...
Which I had expanded on after putting back with a point that she did just that to enhance the fridge argument.
...
there are two options: either Marinette, who initially seemed not too taken aback by her betrayal, was far more hurt by it than she let on, or
being removed from
- As for why Chloé is in the dream, there are two options: either Marinette, who initially seemed not too taken aback by her betrayal, was far more hurt by it than she let on, or it’s likely Marinette recognizes her hypocrisy in letting Alya keep the Fox Miraculous even though Shadow Moth knows her true identity while she benched Chloé for the exact same reason.
...
This entry below, which was one that, while I had created the original one, had been edited and improved by others since including Jackpot over the course of two months into the above form.
...
- Gabriel was the one to figure out a creative plan for Optigami when Nathalie was convinced it was a failure after the straightforward spying mission went nowhere. Gabriel is a designer by trade after all; he's a bit more creative than her.
...
And his other 'I had created the base idea that others had then expanded, tweaked, and improved on' entry.
...
- This episode continues Season 4's subtle contrast between Chloé's worthiness and that of other temporary wielders. When Alya sees a brewing Akuma event in episode, and Marinette requests a distraction, she immediately fakes a bad ankle to let Marinette slip away and prety much ensure she'd have no chance to use Trixx this time. Last season, Chloé took multiple Akuma attacks as a moment to be Queen Bee first and foremost.
...
This being Jackpot's argument for removing stuff I had put back.
...
This page is for pointing out certain details that aren’t addressed in the series, not for people to make their own conclusions. The entries I removed were either speculative, redundant, or are your interpretations.
...
Like...not entirely sure what the point of that is. Going 'this is a plausible reason why the Kwami was back in the box when he would otherwise not be', especially with an example of that happening in the series, feels like it covers that threshold.
Though given that four fridge entries, by multiple people adding and working on them, got removed twice in an editing sequence...more straightforward right?
openFan Works and Recursive Fanfiction getting mixed with source material
I've been told that Fan Works aren't to be discussed on pages for source material, and fan works aren't exempt from this, not allowing Recursive Fanfiction to be discussed on the source fan work's page. What I'm worried about, however, is works with communities where Fan Works - and even Recursive Fanfiction - are closely associated with each other to the point of crossovers between Fan Works being common, and the content of fan works (recursive or not) even impacting the perception of the source material.
To give a specific example, Friday Night Funkin': Corruption is a Game Mod of Friday Night Funkin' well-known for recursive Game Mods that involve characters from other existing Game Mods (whether they be characters invented for a mod, or characters from pre-existing works as portrayed in a specific mod) dealing with the main conflict of Corruption. While some stuff I think I know how to handle from past experience (such as removing the Drinking Game subpage's section on recursive Corruption mods), one thing I don't fully know how to handle is certain examples and bullets on the YMMV subpage that allude to recursive mods and the base Corruption mod (such as a "Seinfeld" Is Unfunny example which describes the reception of recursive Corruption mods affecting the reputation of Corruption itself).
While I am wondering about the mixing of source material, Fan Works, and Recursive Fanfiction in a broader sense, I'm especially curious how to handle scenarios where reception towards a work is especially affected by fan works (including when such happens between a fan work and recursive fan works).
Edited by BrashBusteropenEverybody Hates Hades question
Everybody Hates Hades is about mythological death gods being depicted as more evil in adaptations right?
As the examples have several examples like Hell Girl, Everybody loves large chests, heart strikers and the dungeons and dragons stuff seems to use original villains who aren't based on anything.
Plus some examples just use Death itself as a concept being portrayed as a bad guy. Which I'm not sure is correct either ?
openRedundant image links pages
Fireblood has created dozens upon dozens of redundant Image Links pages. They always consist of an image (not a link to the image, but the image itself) that is identical to the one on the work's main page, and nothing else. This
is the latest one I found, and despite me having cutlisted all of these redundant IL pages over the course of several months, I'm still finding them.
open Sevens: Jackpot21 deletes all dissenting Opinions: Anti-Climax Boss edition Anime
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Tropers/Jackpot21
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/YMMV/YuGiOhSevens
User Jackpot 21 has this thing where they really dislike any opinion on Sevens they disagree with, even if it is a YMMV trope and thus is about opinions versus facts. Recently they went after my YMMV opinion on one of the final bosses of a Sevens Arc.
Here be what they removed.
...
- Anti-Climax Boss: Yuga's second duel with Asana, and the climax of her arc, is considered the weakest duel of all the arc climax duels in the series. Reasons for this stem for the aborted clash of the Maximum Monsters (which makes sense in the plot but comes as the expense of the duel), a sense of repetition of plays from the previous arc climax duel with Neiru (Yuga making a similar 'Trick Guard-Stray Familiar move', the second and third turns leading to a mutual Maximum clash, the use of Magical Switch to summon Seven Roads Magician to take an attack for a weaker monster, etc), and the duel's format overall being more akin to a regular Yuga duel than a climactic one (Yuga notably wins not using Seven Roads Magician, a combo with Seven Roads Magician, or his Maximum monster, but a new level 7 monster (Steeltek Diety Mirror Innovator) in a manner that is more akin to how a duel with a minor character would go and not a climactic clash with a final opponent whose duels tend to more closely involve Yuga's signature cards. Asana herself remains a popular character, but her final duel is considered weak by many.
...
Now let's break down why this is wrong. To list a few of them off the top of my head.
1: Anti-Climax Boss is a trope that is usable outside of video games. In fact all Yu Gi Oh Series have used this trope in their YMMV (For both cards and opponents). 2: This was an opinion I did see around and more than just myself. 3: Anti-Climax boss entries list out why the boss was seen that way, and I did list out several reasons including repetition and how it was concluded.
Also of course 'Your Mileage May Vary'
Minor tweaks are perfectly fine: perhaps changing words from 'is considered the weakest duel of all the arc climax duels' to 'many consider it the weakest duel in all the arc climax duels'. But if he isn't going to even give a reason for his removal like the Pokemon Journeys entry in this system at the same time...well either there is something wrong with it that I don't know about or it is good to go back in a manner that can avoid an edit war.
Edited by KrspaceTopenTroper with grammar problems
GXuniverse has some grammar problems in their edits. Here's a sample few:
From WesternAnimation.The Proud Family Louder And Prouder:
- Hartman Hips: Penny had wider hips than her original self. It meant show how she is older and mature.
From Fanfic.Miraculous Uncertain Future:
- Anyone Can Die:No characters is safe from being killed in this fic.
From Characters.Forever After:
- Lipstick Lesbian: She is the beautiful daughter of the sultan and dressed very feminine. She is also falls for Aladdin who is female in this story.
I sent a notifier for the Proud Family one.
openLilybot
So, as I do, I dewicked another Not So Different wick tonight, at VisualNovel.Piofiore No Bansho. Then I checked the history, and noticed that almost the entire page worth's of edits tonight has been done by Lilybot and their edits are... a bit concerning, as they're deleting several tropes about a specific character, demanding people not add a "spoiler character", and claiming that "talking about how a love interest feels" is too biased— even if it's literally mentioned in the work itself.
I need to sleep so I don't have time to dig through the history and figure out all the tea. This is just what I noticed when checking five minutes ago.
openAssPull misuse?
The following (spoiler-heavy) Ass Pull example was deleted from YMMV.Sly Cooper Thieves In Time as it had the following Foreshadowing:
- Ass Pull: The reveal of Penelope's Face–Heel Turn comes out of nowhere nor fits what's been established. She wanted to eliminate Sly Cooper (and possibly Murray) for holding her genius boyfriend Bentley back, it being implied she only "loved" Bentley out of planning to use him for making billions in weapon designs and/or world domination, and is shown to be a massive scheming sociopath. The previous game portrayed Penelope as a straight-up Nice Girl even compared to the other thieves Sly teamed up with, guilt-ridden when Murray was captured due to her plan, and despite seeing Bentley's genius firsthand only showed romantic feelings toward him after he rescued her from pirates. She even held a genuine crush on Sly for most of the game. Even in this game, Sly had retired from crime by this point and thus wouldn't be holding them back; in fact, Penelope giving time travel to Le Paradox causes Bentley to regroup the Cooper Gang and leads directly to Sly un-retiring, the opposite effect of what she supposedly wanted. While there was foreshadowing such as her disappearance prior to the beginning of the game and the mouse emblem throughout the level where the twist is revealed, nothing in this game or Honor Among Thieves hinted she's angry and bitter at the Cooper Gang instead of being held against her will and forced to assist Le Paradox.
- Foreshadowing: There are several hints that she is the Black Knight:
- The title of the episode itself "Of Mice and Mechs" is a subtle hint of what the chapter is all about: Penelope, a mouse, created the machines and turned against the Cooper Gang.
- The Black Knight's armor has what looks like an icon of a mouse on it, which turns out to be Penelope herself.
- When Bentley researches information on the Black Knight, he finds no information. In the same Episode beforehand, Penelope is brought up again as Bentley wonders where she is once again. Penelope is in the medieval era, disguising herself as the Black Knight.
- This isn't the first time that Penelope went under an alias with the word "Black" in the title. The last time was in the third Sly game under the alias "The Black Baron".
- The text color of the Black Knight is purple, the same color of Penelope.
The Ass Pull wasn't their Face–Heel Turn which was foreshadowed, but it was their motives and personality behind it which contradict everything shown/established about them the prior game and seemingly the flimsy explanation this game gives. Is that not enough to count? Character Derailment and Fan-Disliked Explanation are already listed under their respective pages covering this, those or and anything else a better fit for this issue?
openAre currently not-present music tracks allowed in Awesome Music pages?
I was browsing some work subpages, including Awesome Music, and wanted to add some entries. Problem is, the entries are of music that was once in the work or is in a sister project, but aren't in the work itself as of today. Are Awesome Music examples like these allowed? And why?
open The Problem With Pen Island's subpages are too large and need cleanup
So, I went to The Problem with Pen Island's two subpages (both detailing This Very Wiki) and found a lot of typos. While this is not so bad as I usually fix it myself, the pages are huge, and it'd take me around an hour to clean up a folder.
Should we split the pages? What do we do about all the cleanup needed? And why has this gone unnoticed for so long? (Or am I not meant to touch those pages?)
Edited by ARandomPageopenEdit War?
So on Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice DogOnRollerSkates added
this Broken Aesop example:
- Broken Aesop: Batman's initially portrayed as having lost his way by developing into brutal, merciless killer. However, even after he has a Heel Realization, he's still shown indulging in the same kind of behavior that was previously portrayed negatively. The fact that Zach Snyder has made comments seemingly defending his killings only further muddies up the issue.
Then MasterHero removed
it with a link to a video as an edit reason, which is a bad edit reason, but then DogOnRollerSkates re-added
it without discussing it the edit reason of "You can’t just attach a separate video to justify cutting a trope, if you wish to do so state the reasoning yourself and see if it stands. And given the point this trope brings up has been repeatedly discussed since release and is even mentioned elsewhere on this page, it’s odd that it wouldn’t be here in the first place." Which while I agree with, the latter part has nothing to do with the first part.
Is this an Edit War?
Edited by BullmanopenVideo Example Misuse/Complaining
I feel like some video examples may need some work as either the examples are misuse, complaining (from either the video itself, the description, or both), or both misuse and complaining. The examples I can think of at the moment are:
- Innocently Insensitive video for the My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic episode "Filli Vanilli" (The video itself is fine, but the description sounds like complaining about a character.)
- 0% Approval Rating for The Rise of Skywalker (Trope misuse as the trope is not about works receiving a mostly negative reaction, but is about authority figures that are despised by everyone in the work.)
- In Name Only for Overly Sarcastic Productions (Trope misuse as the trope refers to adaptations that barely have any connection to the source material apart from the title while the video instead talks about how Samurai Jack is a samurai in name only.)
EDIT: The video example for The Rise of Skywalker has been removed.
Edited by PatrickD95openUnintentionally Unsympathetic misuse or rework?
- Author's Saving Throw: Part of the reason Cortana's Face–Heel Turn in Halo 5: Guardians was so disputed is that it undid the emotional impact of her death in Halo 4. In this game, Cortana is given another chance to perform a Heroic Sacrifice by destroying part of Installation 07 to prevent the Banished from using it to their own ends, earning her a Dying as Yourself moment with the Chief.
- Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Despite Cortana having a reckoning with her actions and performing a Heroic Sacrifice, it ultimately all rings hollow as she's previously acted as a megalomaniacal A.I supremacist who killed an untold number of innocent people and sent whole planets back into the Stone Age in an imperialistic attempt to enforce peace on the galaxy while imprisoning Blue Team in a Cryptum for ten millennia after John refuses to toe the line with her agenda… all without batting an eye. The scene where Cortana spitefully uses the Guardians to commit genocide against the Jiralhanae on Doisac after Atroix refuses to submit to her (those Brutes having apparently done nothing to invoke her ire at all or even been planning against her) made many fans view her as undeserving of redemption after everything she's done and feel that her following Heel Realization was far too little, too late. In general, her apology seems like she is not upset about her actions themselves, but because of having no partners with her or about some of the consequences. The actual genocidal actions do not matter much to her as far as we are shown.
Besides the entries seeming to conflict, I believe UU doesn't apply to too much which is too subjective (and given they sacrificed their lives they did everything possible to atone), but for objectively different reasons than acknowledged by the work. The last part of UU was recently added explain that. Is this a widespread enough to count (there is a lot of valid but unrelated salt over her Face–Heel Turn in the first place that could be influencing this)? Should it be reworked to emphasized she's UU due to seemingly only regretting the consequences as opposed to her evildoing?
Also asked UU cleanup
. But any other feedback would be appreciated.
openNew troper, new page, problems
The new article VideoGame.Gacha World was created by a new troper. Aside from the usual problems with a poorly drafted article, I'm wondering if the description is plagiarized from anywhere. I'm not really interested in doing the research myself so I will hand it over to the troper body.
openEdit war
On Trivia.Casino, H Mackall restored an entry
for Adaptational Name Change that had previously been removed for not being trivia, and they claimed in their edit reason that its removal hadn't been explained, although it actually had
. I reverted it, since it's not trivia, and it's located on the main page, but then I realized after checking the history that HMackall actually added it themself in 2019
, and has restored it repeatedly since then.
openRecreating character page for Yumi's Cells Webcomic
Edit: I'm looking for feedback on character images now.
I want to make sure it's okay to recreate Yumi's Cells, which was apparently cut because it didn't have content.
While I'm at it, I also have a few questions about how I should handle spoilers between the characters page and the main Yumi's Cells page. Before I edited the work page, it seemed to mostly spoiler out things regarding the breakup of the second boyfriend and the existence of the third boyfriend.
- If the entry is about the main character's romance, should I put it exclusively in the relevant boyfriend's folder (e.g. a Rejected Marriage Proposal)?
- Should I keep the second boyfriend's breakup spoilered on the character page, or would that be too self-fulfilling? How about non-breakup-related things like the bait-and-switch of the proposal that turned out to be just a regular gift... which turned out to be a wedding ring?
- Should I put a spoilers-off warning on the third boyfriend? I think he has enough non-spoilery tropes about his personality to not be an all-white folder, but the spoilers on the romantic tropes might defeat the purpose.
- The work page has quite a few entries with bullet points for multiple people. If the entries have spoilers for a character that would have a folder, should I move the character's bullet point to their folder? If the entry would lose most of its bullet points that way, should I rewrite it to be more general? (e.g. rewrite the Shirtless Scene entry to say all the boyfriends have such a scene at the high point in their relationships and move the specifics to their respective folders)
- On a different note, should I put a three-trope threshold on the Cell characters before splitting them off from the humans they belong to?
openEdit war
On 27th November
, Shiroyama added this.
- Some people have even considered nature itself and even THE PLANET EARTH to be Eldritch Abominations.
It's general example ("some people" practically means absolutely nothing), ZCE (how it would count as Eldritch Abominations?), and - to be blunt - make no sense. So I removed it about six hours later, pointed out in edit reason that "Some people" misuse tropes too, so don't mind them. (because I think citing "some people" is the worst issue of this entry, it might be simple ZCE if they state the source myth).
Today, they put it back with minor change
.

Trivia.The Conversion Bureau The Chatoverse:
General Trivia
This was under Critical Research Failure until it was made a Disambiguation which was told to be cut as opposed to moved as too inflammatory
, Abbywabby moved it to Artistic License, which was cut
as AL is not supposed to be taken as real life fact which this story does, now Abbywabby moved it here citing "Since there is no consensus on which items exactly are appropriate, they should be listed here until a consensus on where else, if anywhere, is best. If it is agreed they do not fit anything in particular, they should probably be deleted or left here for lack of a better place."
I don't disagree that it should be mentioned if something it fits is found, but this seems inappropriate adding something that was twice deemed too contentious to keep and shoehorn if not outright inappropriate use of "General Trivia" (it make me question if it's worth having "General Trivia" if it's used to shoehorn in stuff that's not proper Tropes or Trivia entries). Thoughts?
Also from the page:
Undermined By Reality was cut as now a disambiguation
. Would Informed Attribute (saying their work is in line with X but unsupported/contradicted in the actual work) be a valid replacement in this case?