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openEdit warring + Rude PM
I pulled an Ambiguous Gender example on Deltarune that I found to have flimsy reasoning behind it (heck, the example itself practically admitted that one could argue Susie was also Ambiguous Gender with the same reasoning). The troper who originally added it (Layman X) put it back without leaving an edit reason and sent me a PM that basically went "Your edit's crap, I'm adding my example back, deal with it".
openThe Production Curse
kokoroanime has been repeatedly re-adding examples to The Production Curse that don't fit the trope, where actors that worked on a specific work suffer misfortune of some kind. The examples in question are for shows themselves, such as "no Mega Man cartoon ever gets off the ground" or "anime versions of western cartoons don't take off." Multiple tropers have attempted to remove it, including myself before I realized it was an issue, but they say it should stay.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.TheProductionCurse
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
openAbout the No Real Life Examples, Please! description
I remember seeing a few cases in the past where people have wondered whether reality TV shows should be allowed to have No Real Life Examples, Please! tropes listed on their pages. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I also believe that the official judgment from the moderation team was that reality TV shows are scripted enough to not actually count as real life, so these tropes should be allowed so long as they're limited to troping what actually happens in the show.
Shouldn't this rule be mentioned on the NRLEP page? The page isn't locked so I could add it myself, but I think the reason for that is so people can add tropes to the list rather than for them to edit the description, so I'd like to ask if that's OK first.
openThe Last Day Of June
For some reason, tropes on The Last Day of June show up as being indexed, even though there's no index formatting on the page that I'm aware of. (Ironically, the game page itself isn't indexed). Glitch, or am I missing something?
It's worth noting that the page was just made on the 29th.
Edited by WarJay77openHero of Another Story Videogame
On the trope page for Mental Omega, a troper added an example for Hero of Another Story which I removed since I don't consider to be valid (since the heroes in question are also playable characters in their own right) but he didn't agree and added it back for this reason: 'reputting because said I watch and played the game and saw it myself'. I'm not very sure about who's right and I don't want to start an Edit War over this issue.
openProbably non-kosher entry on ''Holy Terror''; thoughts?
On the Holy Terror page (about a comic book written by American author Frank Miller) someone felt the need to interject Real Life Dutch politician Geert Wilders (as background: he's best-known for his stance against immigration of non-Westerners, specifically Islamic, people into the Netherlands; and is in the Netherlands a political figure as polarizing as Donald Trump is in the U.S. (and lately frequently compared to the latter)). It seems nonsensical to drag a Real Life politician who doesn't have any relevance to the comic book plot (written by and set in a different country than said politician) into this entry, it seems almost as trolling. Also as a double whammy, a lot of natter then follows about the nature of the U.S. and its constitution - doesn't seem relevant to the comic book either.
Probably better to remove the Geert Wilders (and the natter about the U.S. constitution?) stuff out of this entry, but knowing how polarizing political stuff is, I wanted to ask for feedback here first. This is the entry:
- Bile Fascination: Just seeing how much religious bashing in portraying Muslims in general as motivated by violent extremism at worst and misguided, helpless victims at best can be put into a single set of one hundred pages is quite not good taste, but it's certainly a level of awfulness that one cannot help but keep looking in disbelief that such Geert Wilders-ian style ethnic/racial/religious hatred stoking can exist in the United States, a land that prides itself in incorporating and integrating the various people of the world based on the ideal that, to quote the United States Declaration of Independence, "all men are created equal" and are "endowed by their creator the rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness".
open Does Single Stroke Battle only apply to swordfights, or can it apply to fist fights as well?
The page itself seems to imply that it's only for swords (citing it as the Sword Counterpart of Showdown at High Noon), but there are some examples of barehanded fights on the page as well.
openInterpreting In Universe characters through their actors on YMMV
OK, here's a delicate one. I'll try to formulate as neutral as possible.
7th Heaven ran from 1996 to 2006. Years later in 2014, it came to light that main actor of that show Stephen Collins had sexually molested children in Real Life.
Now the 7th Heaven YMMV page is riddled with backwards interpretations of his In Universe character, Eric, through these horrific acts the actor commited in Real Life. E.g. Eric is called a Base-Breaking Character due to what his actor did in Real Life; there are lots of potholes to Harsher in Hindsight regarding any scene Eric's character had with a minor girl, etc.
So my question: in how far do we interpret / judge characters on YMMV pages through the lens of what their actors did in Real Life?
Because I think on this particular page, the In Universe character Eric is Troped too much on what his actor did in Real Life, than on the character as himself In Universe.
openEdit War on Agents of SHIELD recap Live Action TV
This troper https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/el.php?findfor=Peeve
has basically started an edit war (last 3 edits) about what he personally sees as 'objective', despite the matter being present as the typical 'AI gains consciousnes and overthrows her creator' on the show, with Aida doing a lot of things clearly out of spite and self-interest, not just 'following her programming' and several tropers besides me see it the same way, so just deleting it is not very productive.
openIncomplete Work Page Literature
I came across Literature.Rai Kirah today while checking my watchlist updates. It's a recently created page made by indigoazure
.. The issue here is that, at the time of this writing, there's no description for the work whatsoever. All it has is, and I quote, "(Also commonly written as Rai-Kirah). A fantasy series of three books by Carol Berg." and then a list of the three books in the trilogy. There's a few issues with the tropes themselves, the most glaring being three tropes listed on one bullet and whose context was quotations direct from the book itself. I just flat out deleted those and commented out anything else blatantly zero context. (EDIT: The editor has fixed the three on one bullet tropes by putting at least two as their own tropes with context)
I've sent the page creator a PM about fixing the description, specifically linking to How to Create a Work's Page and quoting the relevant portion to make the point. I'm mostly posting here, too, to have everything "on the record" so to speak in case any further action is needed later.
Edited by sgamer82opencwf123 and Self-Demonstrating Pages
cwf123
, among many other problems (like grammar and a weird Hilarious in Hindsight page), made three Self-Demonstrating articles for The Architect
, Vanessa Lutz
(whoever that is), and Hector Con Carne
. Now, I could've sworn that we were trying to cut down on the number of Self Demonstrating articles on the site.
I know that there's a thread on the forum, but there hasn't been any posts in it since March, so I want to see what I should do with the pages here.
Edited by ArctimonopenThatOneLevel question
Specifically, is there a "one entry per game" rule for That One Level? The page itself is a bit unclear on this.
openWord of Dante misuse?
- Many fans of My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic outright insist that Luster Dawn, Twilight Sparkle's top student in the Distant Finale, is canonically the daughter of Sunburst and Starlight Glimmer (or sometimes Trixie). In canon, it's actually not stated who her parents are: Josh Haber (the episode's writer) implied they might be related, while series director Jim Miller outright rejected the idea as something that cheapened the scope of the show's world. They both conclude that fans can come up with whatever they want, though.
Jim Miller: In my head, it makes a lot more sense if she's just a random student not related to anyone we've already met. And, it's always super weird if everyone is related somehow. IMO, it makes the world of the show feel smaller.
- Word of Dante: Even on this very wiki, everyone operates on the assumption that The Black Mass (the primordial entity that later became Aku) was an Omnicidal Maniac trying to devour the whole universe, but this is not established at any point. In the one episode it appears, it is simply born inan explosion of some sort, flies off, then the gods show up to destroy it while it's still seconds old, and it unsucessfully tries to fight back in self defense. The fragment that landed on Earth did indeed devour any and all creatures that came near it, but for all we know it might've simply been trying to regrow to it's original size.
Word of Dante states it's when someone of repute but no official authority/connections to the work makes a statement that's treated by fans as canon. The first is misuse as it's all about official word and Fanon. The second I believe is misuse as last I heard policy is this wiki is not to be used a reputable source save for info about this wiki, or was that just for official citation.
Also I wonder if Word of Dante should be YMMV as by definition it lacks the official contentions to the work to make it Trivia and its definition, fans treating an unofficial source as canon, sounds YMMV as who/what's treaded as such seems to come down to subjectivity.
openEdit War on Game-Breaker / Genshin Impact
Courtesy link here
- September 14, 4:29 PM: Cauchy Rerun When added this entry about the Raiden Shogun with this edit reason: "After seeing the latest Abyss stats, in which a hefty amount of teams involved the Shogun in some way, and seeing the Shogun's performance with the "national team" (in which she appeared to completely REPLACE Sucrose/Chongyun in this iteration,) I believe she does a good enough job to land herself here. Edit as needed"
- Despite the element she lords over suffering several issues, the Raiden Shogun/Ei still performs a fantastic job as a sub-DPS and Energy supplier, fitting for her title as the Electro Archon. Her Elemental Skill, Transcendence: Baleful Omen, functions like a slightly faster version of Fischl's Nightrider, except instead of firing every second, the turret instead inflicts a bit more Electro damage with everyone's attacks every 0.9 seconds, be they through the effects of Bursts, Skills or otherwise. This allows her to function as a much more effective way to set up Electro reactions, especially with Catalyst characters such as Barbara or Yanfei. Meanwhile, her Burst, Secret Art: Musou Shinsetsu, is the real star of the show. For around 7 seconds after an initial slash, Ei takes control of the Shogun and uses the Musou no Hitachi to perform a different standard attack string. This generates a total of 5 particles minimum throughout its duration, allows Ei to set up tons of Electro reactions, since the Burst's attacks all deal heavy Electro damage, and the first slash hits like a truck to boot. When paired with her second Constellation, it gets even more bonkers, as the Burst's standard attacks now ignore enemies' defenses, letting her shred through entire crowds of mooks like wet paper. Due to the nature of her Skill, she also generates Energy for teammates at blistering speeds; good thing for her, too, as both the initial slash and altered attack chain get more powerful depending on how many teammates used their Burst beforehand. With a high enough Energy Recharge (made easier by her Ascension stat being Energy Recharge,) she can be such a good battery that the rest of the team can use Burst upon Burst upon Burst, even the costly 80 Energy ones such as Pyronado, which in turn gets the Shogun to max power faster.
- September 17, 12:53 PM: Stage7-4 commented out the entry with this edit reason: "Hiding this for now, as I'm not convinced the Raiden Shogun is a gamebreaker. Most Genshin analysis sites list her as just average, listing the weaknesses of electro, the importance of her C2, and her field time demands. While yes she's seeing a lot of abyss use right now, the newest character being popular isn't extraordinary. If and when this gets added back, spoilers regarding Ei will need to be removed."
- October 18, 11:03 AM: Cauchy Rerun When uncommented the entry with this edit reason: "Raiden Shogun is one of the most-used characters in the newest iteration of the Abyss, after being used a lot when she appeared as well. It appears she's here to stay in the meta."
Based on Cauchy's edit reasons, I suspect that they're showing favoritism towards a particular character and are trying to shoehorn their bias without discussion. Edited by DivineFlame100
openPreviews too recent to add?
YMMV.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic IDW Issue 100 To 102
- Author's Saving Throw: After Discord being white washed and made a wimp in comparison to the title villain in the Cosmos Arc drew much ire from fans, his pre-redemption self is once again depicted as being as cunning and monstrous as he was originally depicted. Namely, he manipulated no less than four countries into going to war with the Knights of Harmony's homeland and saw them as 'new toys' when they showed up.
- It's the Same, So It Sucks: The fact that it was caused by Discord again likewise didn't help with most fans getting annoyed writers keep making these crisises his fault. It's only alleviated that this one was at least before his Heel–Face Turn and not a deliberate action as in the TV Finale.
This is from the 3-page preview, it's releasing in a week. Does this means the AST violates it being no prerelease and/or the ITSSIS better fits Tainted by the Preview (I think it's unlikely there's room in the comic for the rest to change these but it's still possible).
I also ask if It's the Same, So It Sucks is the best fit for such complaints as half the entry is noting key differences and the AST notes some are happy with this villainy. I'd say cut for now as too soon to say how it will play out/go over in the final product. Maybe Never Live It Down or similar would fit better as the complains are less about similarities/tired cliches than it bringing up memories of something contentious despite very different and mitigating circumstances that are otherwise well received.
openFanservice Tropes/Halo (2022) Live Action TV
I'm sorry if this should maybe go in another place, but I wasn't sure so I figured I'd start here. I've bene going over the Series / Halo 2022 character pages (which are a bit of a mess, but I'm trying to focus on one issue), and I figured I'd start with something small that's been bugging me.
Namely, the Mr/Ms. Fanservice tropes are used no less than 4 times on the character page, with what I would call very thin justification.
First, there's John the Master Chief
- Mr. Fanservice: Scarring aside, Chief is a very ripped man underneath all that armor. The third episode has him buck naked, with several full views of his rear, in the SPARTAN barracks, even if the scene in question has him taking a suppression implant out of his back using a knife.
As pointed out, the scene where John is nude is so he can perform surgery on himself, it's not scored or lit or shot in "look at how sexy John is" sort of way. He is muscular, but then so are plenty of the characters on the show.
Next, Kai another SPARTAN
- Ms. Fanservice: Like with her CO, Kai is shown naked in the SPARTAN barracks for a brief moment to show off her well-toned physique—and that she took out her hormonal pellet.
Same thing, the purpose of the nudity is not to titillate, arouse, or otherwise turn on the audience.
Third, there's Vinsher Grath, played by Burn Gorman
- Mr. Fanservice: He gets a scene in a bathhouse in Episode 4 showcasing his toned physique.
This is another one that I don't think qualifies, because as the scene did actually seem to be using the nudity for a purpose, but not fanservice. It was more so A: Vinsher could give secret orders to an assassin and B: to show how decadent he is now that he rules the planet-he's smoking a cigar in the bath as well, to showcase that he's living the high life.
Last but not least
- Ms. Fanservice: Makee gets to undress in the second episode, showing off her very attractive figure in the process (aside from some scarring).
There is, to be fair about a two-second shot of Makee's backside from a wide angle, but once again the nudity is being used to tell a story-namely, Makee is changing out of the clothes she wears when working for the Covenant (which she has presumably worn for decades) and into more human clothes. The scene also cuts to John explaining how he felt emotions for the first time in basically forever, to highlight that John and Makee are similar (both are becoming more human, so to speak, which gets brought up in later episodes), and in this case Makee spends a lot of time staring at her body, as if re-examining her limbs to understand that she is a human (as someone basically raised by aliens, she doesn't think of herself much as a human), so the nudity is, again, being used to tell a story.
So, I think the problem I have is these examples are operating under the idea that "nudity, for any reason at all=fanservice". Am I making too much of this, or should these examples maybe be removed? Obviously, anybody can be turned on by anything, and all of these characters are played by actors who are conventionally attractive, but given how attractive everybody is in tv/film, I figured there were some thresholds for Mr./Ms. Fanservice to avoid overuse and gushing.
For what it's worth, every single example was added by one troper, chris4449.
Edited by ArthurEldopenTropes involving a group of characters Western Animation
Encanto is a large cast movie, with 13 named members of Madrigal family itself plus a large handful of named villagers. One thing I've noticed in participating in the editing surrounding Encanto trope pages is the desire to take various 3, 4, or 5 person tropes and start filling out the ranks of those tropes with the members of the large cast.
What this seems to be doing is finding characters in the cast whose personality traits match up with the requirements of the trope even though the 3, 4, or 5 characters don't actually have any scenes where they function as a group, or team or ensemble.
For example, on the character page, Julieta and her 3 daughters (Luisa, Isabela and Mirabel) are listed as a Four-Girl Ensemble. It's a case where they are all members of the same family and each character does fulfill the basic personality requirements of the trope.
However, in terms of the story being told, they are never actually shown interacting as an ensemble. Mirabel has individual scenes with the other female members of her family but, aside from breakfast/dinner scenes, the four are never shown together "just hanging".
So my question is whether this trope is truly in play in this story?
Even the Four-Girl Ensemble example acknowledges that while they fit the personality types, they don't actually function as an ensemble in the story.
There are other tropes listed on the Encanto pages with a similar weakness. Matching personality traits? Yes. But, actually being a group, team, band or ensemble? Not so much.
To me it seems that both halves of the equation need to be "Yes" for the trope to be in play but I'd like some feedback on this.
openRemoval with hostile edit reason
On YMMV.Battlefield 1, Mr Combine removed
an instance of Franchise Original Sin with an edit reason calling it a "racist anf [sic] sexist dogwhistle". In fairness, I think the entry could have used some more explanation (since as written, it could easily be taken to imply that female and POC representation was an issue in itself), but I think their edit reason was a bit too hostile.
openIs Gundam IBO too dark and gritty? Anime
Ok, I gotta ask: does Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans truly qualify for Too Bleak, Stopped Caring? TBSC is normally defined as either "both sides are either equally unlikeable (pedophiliac serial killer vs genocidal slave trader" or "the heroes' efforts ultimately amount to nothing and the universe still sucks." A story only averts the trope when it features clearly defined heroes and villains and the ending delivers a positive outcome.
TBSC was orignally listed
in the show's YMMV page by its original name, "Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy", under the following argument: "By far the worst offender in the entire Gundam franchise, which was already fairly dark to begin with. Detractors point out that it's hard to sympathize with the protagonists, especially Mikazuki, as their actions push them further off the slipper slope. This isn't helped in season 2 where you're required to be ruthless in this society to get ahead. In the final episodes, major characters get killed left and right to the point it stops being dramatic and starts becoming tedious. Not helping matters is that people are comparing it to Zeta and the director's insistence that the entire show is basically a mafia story, NOT a war story.". It was deleted
because the trope required proof of audience apathy.
The YMMV page previously included:
- Eight Deadly Words: Detractors of the series frequently point this out as a problem. With a bleak setting, extremely morally shady characters (especially the main character), even worse villains, and an underdeveloped Big Bad who not only manages to succeed but ends on a high note, it's pretty easy to stop caring about what happens to the characters., but it was deleted
because Eight Deadly Words became a DefinitionOnlyPage.
- Ending Aversion: The outcome of the final episode is extremely divisive, with a pretty vocal segment of the fandom decrying it for feeling that Tekkadan didn't get the payoff they deserved while Rustal, Julietta, Nobliss, and Gjallarhorn in general successfully destroyed Tekkadan and ended on a high note, with only Iok and Nobliss receiving any form of comeuppance that ultimately rings hollow because of the other villains still winning- the way they won also gets accused of being a complete Shoot the Shaggy Dog for the sake of a Gray-and-Grey Morality message. Many who want a sequel for the series tend to request for Rustal and Julieta to get killed and for Gjallarhorn to be destroyed, assuming they don't write a Fix Fic to fulfill the same purpose by having Tekkadan win the Final Battle. The trope was deleted because, supposedly, "the trope is for people avoiding a work because they hear the ending is disappointing, not about people not liking the ending."
It still includes Esoteric Happy Ending with: "While the series portrays the finale as a bittersweet but overall happy ending with Rustal reforming Gjallarhorn and recognizing Martian independence, while Iok and Nobliss Gordon are killed, detractors of the series finale point out that as a member of the previous Gjallarhorn regime, Rustal is at best complicit in or at worst actively responsible for much of the corruption that plagued the organization. Onscreen, he doesn't bat an eye at starting proxy wars, formenting violent rebellions as false flags, and making use of outlawed weapons to achieve his ends. Even with the Seven Stars disbanded, he's managed to hold on to his power by making himself the best possible candidate to be elected to lead Gjallarhorn, and both he and Julietta were willing to side with Nobliss Gordon, of all people. As a result, the detractors see him as carrying on old Gjallarhorn's corrupt practices while propping up a public facade of being a reformer."
The show's anime page includes tropes like:
- The Bad Guy Wins: Although Gjallarhorn is heavily reformed by the end of the series, there is little doubt that throughout the series they are the villains, and were fighting to remain the authority in the world. Tekkaden was simply trying to find a place to belong in the world, which put them in direct opposition to Gjallarhorn by necessity rather than any actual enmity at first. It's made clear that there are still elements of resentment on both sides by the series end though, particularly in light of the look of anger and distrust that Eugene sends Julietta's way. This makes sense when you remember Julietta, a devoted, borderline fanatical follower of Rustal Elion, is the one who murdered Mikazuki on the battlefield. Julietta doesn't miss it, or its implications, either.
- Sliding Scale of Idealism Versus Cynicism: Very cynical. For starters, the protagonist is a Sociopathic Hero who kills without remorse. The main characters are a group of Child Soldiers who see nothing wrong with their profession, fighting an all-powerful army that oppresses the masses through bureaucracy and military intervention. Both sides kill each other in the most brutal and painful ways, with no hope for peace or reconcilation. The ending implies things will be much better, but by that point, so much blood has been shed.
So, what do you think?
BTW, I also asked this question in Is this an example?
to get a proper consensus.

Powerup Comics is a parody webcomic that has two pages on TV Tropes: one in the Webcomic namespace that is a Self-Demonstrating Article written in the style of the comic itself, and another on Darth Wiki that's written more like what you'd expect a TV Tropes article to be.
So... shouldn't it be the other way around? The one in the main wiki giving the actual facts, and Darth Wiki hosting the joke version?