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resolved Cowboy Emerald at his Computer
User Emerald Source has a problem with Unilateral Editing, as they seem to have a habit of overhauling descriptions of tropes without running it through Trope Description Improvement Drive, or providing any edit reasons. One of these edits
on Ms. Fanservice was noticed back in May 13th by some users on the aforementioned forum thread, which they sent a notifier for (seen here
), but Emerald Source has continued the habit regardless, as one can see through a few edits in their post-May 13th edit history:
- Space Clothes, edited here
.
- In-Camera Effects, edited here
.
- Basement Dweller, edited here
.
- My Real Daddy, edited here
. (User My Final Edits actually took notice of this and reverted the edit
, while once again attempting to guide Emerald Source to the TDID.)
But what's perhaps even more concerning is their edits to trope descriptions that add or remove to it's meaning, thus changing it's identity as a whole. Again, these are all done without discussion or edit reasons, despite having been sent a notifier:
- Changing the description of Stylistic Suck such that the trope has three different variants of itself [1]
- Narrowed down Everyone's Baby Sister to be specifically about a villain kidnapping a character who looks helpless, rather than the villain simply threatening a certain character type (no mention of physical appearance). [2]
- Outright changing the requirement for Cowboy BeBop at His Computer such that it can no longer apply to works getting details wrong, and is instead restricted to news reports, reviews, and promotional materials getting things wrong. [3]
All of this doesn't even mention the fact that their edit in Ms. Fanservice uses the word "females" to refer to women, and replaces a mention of "straight men" to just "men", even though the distinction of the sexual attraction is important in that context. These by themselves seem like red flags, and leads me to believe that sending another notifer would be like talking to a brick wall.
openBorderline obsession?
I've been thinking about that one for quite a long time, as I honestly am not the kind of guy to tell on somebody, and the troper seems to have a lot of good edits in general, but this particular thing has gone on far too long now. Tuvok
seems to have a pretty heavy case of Single-Issue Wonk on the character 'Grant Ward' from the show Agents of Shield, with his character folder being listed here
. I'll admit, this character has proven himself to be very controversial among the fans, but he seems almost hellbent on deleting pretty much anything positive or morally ambiguous about him, even though that was kind of the point. A lot of his reasonings seem to fall under his personal interpretation, with numerous people disagreeing over time, and as I've said (just look for yourself at the edit history of the page), this has gone on for years by now (even longer than the actual edit history of the page, as said page has been renamed and moved several times). Essentially, the whole character has been the subject of an extremely long edit war. And it has never been brought to discussion, he just straight up deletes what he doesn't like.
openPossible agenda based editing
Swim To The Moon made some edits that seem to be agenda based.
This query
shows they had an edit reason which said negative stereotypes about Egypt were actually true.
They also added this to Live-Action Films (0-F) about Black Christmas, which has some rather questionable attitudes about feminism and according to another editor also contains false information (havent watched the movie myself)
"Then there's a fact that the film was made purely as an angry feminist diatribe who seems to hate men. While the original 1974 film had a political feminist subplot, said subplot only took up 10 minutes of that film. The whole movie's plot is that a year after main character Riley was sexually assaulted by a member of a fraternity, they stumble upon a conspiracy that said maternity are members of a cult trying to kill people on campus. Saying the film is Anvilicious is an understatement; the film drops an entire factory of anvils on the viewer; the most blatant example happens halfway through when the film stops completely in its tracks to have its characters engage in a screaming match at each other over whether or not all men are rapists, a scene that doesn't even tie in very well with the film's core message, especially since the film goes back to the way it was like nothing happened. And as if this wasn't bad enough, the movie can't even get its own moral values right. The film's twist is that the fraternity are a cult being mind controlled by a humanoid alien. So for all we know, the men themselves may not have raped anyone knowingly, and taking this a step further, it also turns out that Riley accused the wrong guy of sexual assault, yet the film still acts as if she was right to do that. Because remember, kids! false rape accusations are completely okay!"
open Life is Strange: True Colors problem
So recently Life Is Strange: True Colors had its trailer release. Unfortunately, as usually happens with unreleased works, the page is dealing with issues regarding what is considered speculation and what isn't. Specifically, two Tropers are edit-warring over context.
Dark added three tropes (Aura Vision, Color-Coded Emotions, and Psychic Powers) with the edit reason, "Adding some tropes very definitely shown in the trailer."
Alphaeater hid them all for not having citations.
Dark un-hid them with the reason, "Ah, the fun police are here."
Alphaeater outright deleted the tropes with the reason, "Do not unhide hidden entries without fixing them."
Dark re-added them all. "I did, by changing the "in this game" to "in this game's trailer" but I guess that's just not good enough, so here. Also, one of the ones you deleted literally has "based on the trailer in it", so why was that one also deleted?"
Alphaeater hid the Color-Coded Emotions entry with the reason, "Where / how do these colors appear? How are they associated with emotions?" Note the example itself reads Based on what's seen in the trailer, red is anger, blue is sadness, yellow is joy, and purple is fear.
Dark added more context but with the reason, "Context clues. Also, very petty move, holding the entry for 20 minutes to prevent editing. Jesus effing christ, dude, go hall monitor somewhere else."
Since then, other Tropers have added Tropes to the page. Alphaeater outright deleted some and hid others out for being ZCE—although they didn't leave an edit reason explaining their deletions.
Following this, Dark added a note to the top of the page: "Remember to add a citation, even if it's blatantly obvious from context clues, or the hall monitors with nothing better to do will hide your entry!" Their edit reason: "please go away or do something actually useful, like adding context despite the entry being perfectly readable and comprehendible without the extra wording."
So we have an edit war going on, and honestly I'm finding issues with both Tropers here. Most obviously Dark is being pretty rude and petty in their edit reasons, and I'm going to go ahead and delete the petty note on the page. On the other hand Alphaeater is sometimes not communicating their reasons for deleting entries—and these deletions seem unnecessary, as they can simply hide them until proper citations are added.
resolved Trouble with Trivia/CodesAndGeassEmbracingYourInnerMegalomania
Hello again, little bit of an issue regarding the trivia page for this fanfic, and hopefully the last one I bring to ATT since I am attempting to disassociate myself from this fic.
The Trivia page is only meant for trivia, right? Well, the author of the work, Tropers/Trickster_Priest, has restored several tropes that were removed for not being trivia tropes. Namely two Useful Notes, BDSM and Oda Nobunaga, and one normal trope: Insistent Terminology. Shouldn't they be removed though since they are not trivia?
They have also removed two tropes, Dear Negative Reader and Hostility on the Set, and an entry for another trope, Creator's Pest, with no given reason whatsoever. Unless they are cases of misuse, isn't their removal not permitted under the ruling of The Fic May Be Yours, but the Trope Page Is Ours?
I apologize for troubling you, and thank you in advance for resolving this.
Edited by RebelFalconopen Rudeness
I'm concerned that the troper Nepworks is being rather rude to people. They're being pretty confrontational and mean on this TLP draft
; while a lot of tropers including myself have concerns about the draft, they're being the most aggressive about it. They're also being rather mocking on this TF query
.
openIssues with edits by Tropers/TheKaizerreich
I skimmed through the edit history
of The Kaizerreich since I found their name concerning. They haven't edited for almost three years but there are a couple of edits I find problematic. (Links to the specific edits in the history don't seem to work. Are they too old? Is this a bug?)
This got rewritten anyways, however obscure comparisons of the number of killings are a typical right wing talking point (Holodomor
is more comparable to the Great Famine in Ireland and it is completely beside the point).
In Acceptable Political Targets they added:
- CNN is getting in on the deal as well, with an overwhelming amount of 2016's journalism being full of pro-Hillary Clinton reporting while exaggerating anything and everything Donald Trump did (and in some cases just plain making it up). Trump himself (in)famously called CNN "Fake News" during a press conference. On the other hand, Trump is also aligned with:
- Alex Jones, a radio host and probably the living example of a Conspiracy Theorist, who has to be seen to be believed (and many people don't believe he's authentic). His website Infowars will bring just about any news story they can and has been roundly mocked, though the mockery died down after Trump started associating with them and them bringing a few stories that were shockingly real.
Further they added an example on Maggie Thather that in essence is also in the current version. Here's the original edit:
I agree that Thatcher is a good example for this trope however I feel the criticism is portrayed in a wrong way, cf. [1]
. While Thatcher is seen as an unpleasant person it's not due to "moral guarding".
In Acceptable Professional Targets they added:
And also
In Acceptable Ethnic Targets they edited:
This somewhat beside the point. They also added an example that in essence survived till today:
As a German I know none of those "popular Turks" who made it into "high military positions". Actually I don't know any high ranking military officer (who are still in office) at all. They are definitely not popular. However, there are popular politicians of Turkish descent. Also there are very few "Turks" in Germany but many people of Turkish descent, in the third generation or so. As for television, I'm not aware of any popular stereotypes. That's not to say there wouldn't be any but they should give examples.
In Black Panther (2018) they started an edit war for which they got suspended [2]
and I don't even know what to think about the example:
- Sacred Cow: Negative reviews no matter how mild got frequently blasted to oblivion because this is a "mostly black" movie and thus somehow a Sacred Cow by default, whether it has actual merit or not - which carries the rather unfortunate suggestion that the movie cannot actually stand up to scrutiny and requires an enforced air of ultra-positive public opinion to be relevant.
There are also three other ATT threads about edit war issues [3]
[4]
[5]
.
I'm not sure if I'm the only one who has issues with those edits but maybe others can help looking through the edit history. Of those examples above only the Thatcher and Turkish-German examples seem to have survived.
Edit: Fixed formatting
Edited by SirenaopenVandal/Troll?
Pengellylog is a new troper who only has one edit, which was adding nonsense to What the Hell, Hero? (which I removed). At the launch pad, they've also begun to make some trouble by randomly editing and renaming someone's draft
and creating a bashy stub
, the latter of which wouldn't be noteworthy if not for the other odd things.
They basically seem to be calling us idiots, like by changing Too Dumb to Live on the trope draft with Self-Demonstrating Article.
openAssistance in resolving/preventing an edit war on Creator/QuintonFlynn Videogame
Bringing this here since the page's discussion forum doesn't get a lot of traffic.
To provide a bit of context, back in November 2020 images and audio of Voice Actor Quinton Flynn sexually harassing female fans surfaced on social media followed up by multiple accusations from many other women. This led to Flynn losing upcoming roles as documented on the Role Ending Misdemeanor Video Games page. Six months Flynn had sued one of his accusing for stalking him and got a court victory over her, then claimed on Twitter that a judge had found him not guilty of the accusations. This is pretty blatantly a lie; as the plaintiff his guilt or innocence was never under any consideration, he was only suing one woman for stalking him, she defended herself which is a good sign she didn't receive the best legal council, and her being guilty of stalking him does not mean he can't be guilty of harassing her. However some of his fans have taken this as proof that all accusations against him are false and he is 100% innocent since she had to delete her tweets on the matter. So Flynn portraying the decision as him being found not guilty is dishonest and a bit suspect.
Now onto the actual matter; over on his creator page when the judge's decision was brought down Captain Tedium deleted the section on the accusations on April 22 2021 with the following edit reason:
"The sexual allegations have recently been debunked. https://mobile.twitter.com/JasmineDBZking/status/1384605216650059780
Reinstate the detail of what happened in November 2020 only if the proof of Quinton Flynn's innocence is itself debunked. Or if this incident has ended up affecting his career anyway."
On July 4th The Extractor added in a modified entry with the accusations, court victory and the loss of roles with the following edit reasons
"A statement that he alone released, that no one else corroborated, that still contradicts a shitload of visual and audio evidence doesn't remotely absolve him of anything. It also doesn't change the fact that he's effectively been fired from everything and is yet to be re-hired on anything. I'll amend this part so it's more objective and less "hostile", but it stays."
On the 20th I amended the entry to remove the reference to the court case as I felt the way it was written would lead someone to an incorrect assumption of what happened and that to properly explain and provide context would take up a lot of words that in my opinion was largely irrelevant to the point.
There were no further edits to the page until November 6th when Tropers/shaynaynaynot edited the page to add "In April 2021, Flynn tweeted that the accusations came from a stalker
, and he was found not guilty." They also added the same to the REM subpage.
Now what's been added is objectively false (as the plaintiff it is quite literally impossible for him to be found not guilty), but given as this could be described as either the first, second or fourth edit on the matter depending on your definition I'm concerned that reverting it would be considered an edit war, and given that only four of us have been involved in editing there is little hope of getting a consensus. So I'm seeking further input from people who haven't been involved so far.
openMay have caught an edit war + possible agenda
So last night, I found an interesting Anvilicious entry on YMMV.Mr Robot, which, among other things, complained about the lack of a “sympathetic” right-leaning character in the series. I had already taken that entry to the ROCEJ cleanup thread
, where it was agreed to cut the entry.
However, after going back and looking over the history again, I found that the Anvilicious entry was added by Oransel (who added the “lack of a sympathetic right-leaning character” bit) and after doing a quick look through their edit history, found an edit they made on YMMV.Star Trek Picard which talks about the series being even more “preachy” than usual Star Trek. cluosborne deleted the entry with the edit reason being “speculation”, but Oransel added it back with the reason “ How is this a speculation? It is a YMMV opinion, expressed by many people”. (I have next to no knowledge on Star Trek, so I can’t confirm this myself).
Based on what I know of this site’s rules, I’m pretty sure Oransel is (was?) edit warring (and possibly with some kind of agenda). Problem is, the Star Trek entry was from March of last year, and Oransel hasn’t edited since. I’m not sure if possible edit wars are still reportable even if it’s been a year since they happened.
Edited by worldwidewoomyopenA bit of weirdness going on with Mouthscreen
palatiinas appears to have a fixation on the Mouthscreen trope. That's not a bad thing in and of itself, but in a lot of their examples, they seem to feel the need to point that "X character's mouth is played by Y actor's mouth", which is unnecessary and seems a bit weird and fetish-y to me.
I'm asking if I can remove those details and what is the appropriate notifier to send here.
resolved Colonel-Knight-Rider and The Super Mario Bros. Movie Hate
Okay, so a certain troper, Colonel-Knight-Rider, has been adding multiple They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character entries on the YMMV section of The Super Mario Bros. Movie and one of them especially stuck out to me as being especially nitpicky.
- Spike. His only reason for being in the movie is to drive home the point further that Mario and Luigi hated their old jobs, whatever they were, hence their plumbing business; and that they've received unjust derision for their ambitions, which they've already received repeatedly from their father. Beyond that, he does nothing to help or hinder Mario's quest to save Luigi. And, during the final battle, pretty much all Spike does is notice Bowser's castle popping up in Brooklyn before fleeing from the unusual sight. If Spike disappeared from the movie, the Mario Bros. would still undergo the same character arc of trying to win their father's approval. (By contrast, the activities of what many consider to be his 1993 movie counterpart Anthony Scapelli kickstart the Bros.' whole interdimensional adventure!)
Ignoring the fact that Spike's whole point in the movie is to be a minor character, he actually does impact the plot in some way by being one of the main reasons for why Mario feels so "small" and "insignificant" to everyone and adding to Mario's motivation of wanting to feel more important, which is what motivates him to fix a flooding in Brooklyn and therefore leads him and Luigi to the Mushroom Kingdom and the Dark Lands respectively and the rest is history. Also some weird 1993 movie glazing because Vindicated by History I guess.
Also the troper who added this, Colonel-Knight-Rider, seemingly has a serious vendetta and hatred towards this movie as they have been adding constant negative examples and downright complainy edits at times to their examples in this movie's YMMV section (with them also citing a random YouTuber, The Little Platoon, who gave a negative review towards the movie in many of their YMMV edits and examples for some reason)
This is their edit about said YouTuber in the Awesome Music section for some reason.
- While YouTube commentator The Little Platoon argued that the movie wasted a lot of opportunities to do something original with its source material to create a unique experience one couldn't get from just playing a game, he, too, stated that he enjoyed Tyler's score, citing it as the most redeeming aspect of the film by balancing the familiar with the new.
This is their edit about said YouTuber again on the They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot section.
- Another complaint among fans, particularly YouTube commentators such as The Little Platoon, is that the movie wasted its potential to do something more with its references besides simply showing them to appeal to nostalgia for the games—specifically, to use them to build a more complex and intricate world with them and develop the main and supporting cast more, as well as to take time to introduce the characters and the world they inhabit to people who might not know who they are (sure, Mario and Luigi are pretty well-known even in non-fan circles, but not as many non-fans know who Peach, Bowser, Toad, Kamek, etc. are), in a manner similar to how the Marvel Cinematic Universe introduced its characters to non-Marvel Comics fans and expanded the Marvel fanbase as a result.
All of this implies a possible case of Single-Issue Wonk is at foot here. For example, this is a Kong section that they added to the They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character section with an especially complainy part at the end that was edited out by another troper.
- The Kongs themselves. Even if Peach had never taken Mario and Toad to the Jungle Kingdom, Mario still would have trained more to learn how different power-ups work and how to navigate different obstacles, used the power-ups to be a One-Man Army and save Luigi and the other hostages, accidentally transported the principle players and Bowser's castle to Brooklyn, gotten a hold of the Super Star, and saved the day, just like he does in the final cut. In that sense, the Kongs, like a lot of stuff in this movie, were added solely for nostalgic appeal and contribute nothing to the outcome of the story whatsoever.
This is not the first time they’ve done this too. They did this before on January this year as well with just as much of an egregiously complainy addition at the end as well. I deleted this one myself because of how egregiously complainy it was as well as giving reasons as to why the Kongs were necessary to the plot of the movie.
- The Kongs. With or without them, Mario still would've trained to perfection (and likely learned more about how powerups work, so he'd know which to use to save the prisoners himself without Donkey Kong's strength) rescued Luigi, created a dimensional merge with the Bomber Bill, and saved the day with the Super Star, just like he did. Effectively, with the Bros. being a one- (or two-) man army, Peach didn't need help from the Kongs at all, but they were clearly included nonetheless to pad out the runtime and for nostalgic appeal, as were a fair bit of things in this movie.
I tried DMing them to stop with their seemingly Single-Issue Wonk behavior regarding this movie and they did at first adjust and edit their Kong example to be more fair and less complainy as shown here:
- The Kongs, at least those excluding Donkey Kong. Even if Peach had never taken Mario and Toad to the Jungle Kingdom, Mario still would have trained more to learn how different power-ups work and how to navigate different obstacles, used the power-ups to be a One-Man Army and save Luigi and the other hostages (possibly with a strength-granting power-up like the Mega Mushroom), accidentally transported the principle players and Bowser's castle to Brooklyn, gotten a hold of the Super Star, and saved the day, just like he does in the final cut. All while not being eaten by the Maw-Ray as a result of never traveling by Kong-made Karts. Although it could be counter-argued that DK's strength is necessary to hoist the prisoners to freedom, with the prospect of saving his species as his motive, the rest of the Kongs don't really get a chance to do what they were hired for after that and fight against Bowser's forces.
and I thought they had stopped altogether, but they have since then continued to add more negative examples like the "Spike" one as well as a So Okay, It's Average example towards the movie as well.
- In the view of professional and amateur critics alike, while the movie succeeds in avoiding Illumination's usual film structure and offers some impressive animation, orchestral scoring, and obvious passion for the source material, it doesn't offer much else beyond that. So, it's a fun, harmless means of escapism Mario fans of all ages with a good few memorable action sequences, and it took a labor of love to create every piece of eye and ear candy, but those expecting to see groundbreaking plot development, complex character dynamics, and meta-humor on par with those of The LEGO Movie or Barbie shouldn't get their hopes up high.
This is an Ass Pull entry that they added on January this year that I deleted for reasons explaining how it’s not an Ass Pull.
- Toad is somehow able to smuggle an ice flower into Peach's wedding bouquet so she can use it to freeze Bowser despite the movie not showing how he got it, let alone in a giant floating castle island made of volcanic rock.
I went to the They Wasted A Perfectly Good Cleanup forum
and they gave me permission to delete their They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character entries so I already took care of those.
Is there anything we should do about the others?
Edited by Fireball246openEdit war on Ranma Saotome Anime
Okay, I didn't want to ring the alarm prematurely, but lately the page Characters.Ranma One Half Ranma Saotome is veering into an edit war between Midnight Star Hunter and Valentine Meikin, with some peanut gallery comments by Wandering Browser. (Myself, I'm only doing the occasional grammar edit on the page.)
The latest edit by Midnight Star Hunter includes an absolute Wall of Text of an edit reason accompanying an absolutely bloated trope entry; please check it out. I think that everybody needs to cool down and discuss it out before any further addition or removal.
resolved Troper continuing to be uncooperative/edit wars/downright rudeness
As mentioned in a previous ATT thread
, Slothed has a habit of complaining and doubling down on their complaints when called out on them, even being hostile towards me and other tropers (to the point that the ATT thread in question had to be locked). Today, I sent them a ROCEJ notifier for an edit
where they not only referred to multiple real-life content creators as if they were fictional characters, but calling them "toxic", "narcissistic", etc., which is quite a ROCEJ violation. Not only that, I reported
the page in question for being a ROCEJ nightmare (to which the other tropers on the thread largely agreed with me), and I even sent the other tropers who made similar edits on the page notifiers to show I wasn't singling anyone out.
Just now, Slothed has sent a reply not unlike the one they sent me for the previous notifier I sent weeks ago, in addition to doubling down on their edit again, they continued to be hostile towards me, saying that I'll "just accuse them of rudeness again", even though their edits and replies to notifiers certainly don't help matters.
And now they're edit warring
, accusing me of bias for deleting an edit of theirs
that was full of complaining (it began with "Notoriously and ridiculously used to extreme levels") and argues with itself (the other half of the edit began with "However, considering that...").
openEdit War on Azumanga Shitposts Anime
Reporting a belatedly-realized Edit War scenario:
- Troper.Stop Hating Tv Tropes Plz 123 adds the following Condemned by History entry
to YMMV.Azumanga Daioh, subsequently tweaking the format over successive edits
- Troper.UFO Yeah deletes
the entry, citing poor formatting and complaining
- StopHatingTvTropesPlz123 re-adds
the entry, including a confusing question about YMMV.Fate Stay Night and YMMV.Oreimo's CBH entries
- After StopHating's entry is brought to attention of Condemned by History cleanup thread
, it is again deleted by myself
(not having seen the history proving this was an Edit War yet)
I apologize for unknowingly engaging in an Edit War, but what should become of StopHating's entry? And should we keep watch in case they decide to add it again?
Edited by Galileo26resolved Easily Forgiven, now complaining magnet.
Easily Forgiven was recently made YMMV, and it's now attracting a lot of complainy edits (despite cleanup saying they should be neutral
) that seem redundant with Unintentionally Unsympathetic (worse, UU without explaining why their forgiveness wasn't seen as earned as intended) and other issues reading as bashing forgivenesses they don't like rather than why it came of as (too) easy. Some examples.
- Steven Universe: This was how the fandom saw the resolution to the original series with the Diamond Authority's "redemption". Most people expected Blue to be redeemed, but were critical on Yellow and especially White, as due to executive restraints, the pacing of the final few episodes made the ending resolution feel rushed. This is mitigated by the movie and sequel mini-series showing that just because Steven solved matters peacefully with the Diamonds doesn't mean he forgave them for their horrible actions and the three of them (mainly White) still hold a few of their toxic mindsets, but for many fans this was not nearly enough and they should have stayed villains to the end. Would be valid but doesn't explain what they did for those unfamiliar with the work. Also said movie was in production before fan complaints so not an after the fact fix, so if they weren't as easily forgiven as first implied is it not/no longer an example? (YMMV cannot be subverted or played with).
- Jedi Academy Trilogy: The New Republic decides to place the fate of Kyp Durron, who, under the influence of the ghost of the Sith Lord Exar Kun, had first assaulted his master Luke Skywalker, then stolen an Imperial superweapon and blown up an entire star system, in the hands of Luke himself. Luke chooses to forgive Kyp and welcome him back into the Jedi Order. This proved extremely controversial in the Star Wars Legends, fandom, which was reflected in later works: In the P.O.V. Sequel I, Jedi, Corran Horn rage quits the order over it, while a story in Tales from the New Republic portrayed Kyp as The Atoner. Other readers suspect that the New Republic considered the population of Carida to be Asshole Victims since it was an Imperial system whose governor had just attempted to assassinate Chief of State Mon Mothma with Grey Goo and then kidnap the infant Anakin Solo, and Kyp had subsequently helped win the books' final battle for the New Republic after Exar Kun was destroyed, so they weren't that inclined to prosecute him. Argues with itself noting there were those who though otherwise/mitigating context. If it explain why critics felt this wasn't enough, would it be redundant with UU?
- WandaVision: Many fans criticized Wanda for being this at the end of the series. With her having kidnapped an entire town and forcing them to play roles in her weird meltdown, including not letting some of them see their children. And after beating Agatha, Wanda suffers no consequences for MindRaping the people of Westview beyond being shunned by them and simply leaves to live a relatively peaceful life of solitude and self-discovery. Making her seem less like a grieving victim and more like an insane, sociopathic Karma Houdini who should've been thrown in prison or received some kind of punishment instead. Deleted this as she was not forgiven, Westview was noted justifiably still hated her. Even if EF was just getting off light (the TRS said it still requires in-universe forgiveness), this seem to be getting bashy. This is the kind of ill-faith edits being attracted.
- Detractors of Elsa in Frozen cited this trope as one of the criticisms levied against her. While it was already implausible enough for Anna to forgive her so easily after being shut out for so long, even more implausible is the fact that the entire citizens of Arendelle happily accepts her as their queen in spite of accidentally unleashing the Endless Winter that followed beforehand especially considering that unlike Anna who believed and eventually vindicated that she didn't mean to do so (and we the viewers know that she didn't even realize this until Anna pointed it out), they have no reason to believe that it was an accident (especially given how reclusive she was prior to her coronation) so the fact that they welcome someone who in their eyes, intentionally unleashed an Eternal Winter upon their land and abandoned them to their fates rubbed them the wrong way with fans citing this as another example as to why Elsa would have worked better if she actually freezes the kingdom on purpose. Notes it's just detractors. Character extreme popularity means it's likely not a widespread opinion.
- The Owl House: Even though Eda and Luz both make a point to not forgive Lilith straight away for her actions in the Season Finale with the latter doing her best to make amends, there are a number of fans who still think they let her off way too easily for cursing Eda, keeping her in the dark for 30 years and trying to forcibly abduct her into the Emperor's Coven as well as using Luz as a Human Shield in order to let her guard down with her redeeming actions being to help Luz save Eda and sharing the latter's curse not being enough to make up for it. Besides noting she wasn't forgiven until they did all this redeeming stuff and arguably not even then, doesn't explain why critics found it insufficient to redeem them as intended (UU needs that level of objectivity). This could be worked into a valid example, but comes of as Never Live It Down without the requirement (why fans exaggerate/ignore mitigating context) that keeps it from pure complaining/bashing.
I've asked the EG TRS
about coming of as redundant with UU, but it's coming along so slowly I feel the need to bring to attention what I find a disturbing amount of toxicity, lacking the constructiveness/objectiveness that makes other negative audience reaction item valid, for something that while contentious isn't supposed to be a inherently negative reaction, and seems overly complainy even if it was.
resolved Misclassified as American series
@SpongeBobFan2005 keeps adding Strawberry Shortcake: Berry in the Big City to AmericanSeries.Animation, even though BITBC is exclusively made in Canada. I tried explaining this to him multiple times, but he keeps adding it with the flimsy excuse of “it was put on Youtube/Netflix which are American”. I already let myself get dragged into an edit war with him and I’m not doing it again, so can someone tell me what to do about this?
Edited by BlueBlazesresolved Mebrouk is writing ROCEJ violations... again
I found this
on Scenery Gorn's Real Life page, calling the Gaza strip scenery gorn and calling Nehtanyahu a genocidal monster. I recognized that this was Mebrouk, the same guy from the Your Terrorists Are Our Freedom Fighters image debacle in May that ended with that trope getting NRLEP'd. Looks like he's back to his old tricks - he added Aaron Bushnell's suicide note
to the Self-Immolation quotes page, and, while not Hamas related, an iffy example
on No-Holds-Barred Beatdown Real Life.
resolved Massive unilateral changes to two UsefulNotes pages
Troper/Renangtry has gone and rewritten vast chunks of UsefulNotes.Aboriginal Australians and UsefulNotes.First Australians to 'address racism and inaccurate information'. Now, while I don't disagree that both pages were due a clean-up (and indeed some of the information provided is new), and I also agree that the best place to learn about Australia's First Nations is from sources with First Nations input, they've not only basically rewritten two pages unilaterally, they've also gone and deleted quite a bit of historical information (mainly regarding the historical treatment of Aboriginal Australians by colonists as well as the various colonial governments) in the process. Furthermore, the fact that they've only got a grand total of 4 edits made over the span of a single day on both pages is suspect in of itself. What would be the best solution here?

Back in June, hubakon1368 cut a large number of examples from TabletopGame.Vampire The Masquerade — the edits can be seen starting here
. The first edit provides the standard template Example does not sufficiently explain how it applies reason; the later two do not. However, two problems:
There is also this bit, which is a ZCE, but should have been commented out instead of being cut:
(In some instances, I omitted bullet points that were kept.)
I don't think that any of these are ZCEs by any definition of the term. However, I find it notable that several are connected to "Wormwood", one of the apocalyptic scenarios presented in the Gehenna sourcebook, where God kills off vampirekind but gives a small group the chance to redeem and become human (other scenarios have vampires destroyed by other supernatural forces, or just do each other in in civil war). Some of the cut material is unrelated, like the first entry on Always a Bigger Fish, Believing Their Own Lies, and Beneath The Earth, but I think it's notable that the editor purged all material related to this scenario from the page.
Permission to restore the cut material?
(Beneath The Earth would need to be moved to other applicable tropes if such as available, obviously.)
(Also, for the sake of transparency, I feel I should mention that a decent portion of the cut material was originally written by me some time ago, which is part of the reason why I'm not just restoring things myself.)
EDIT: I looked through their edit history, and there were some other suspect edits at the same time:
This is a fairly thorough campaign of removal focused on Vampire: The Masquerade in particular, and the general pattern seems to be:
- Removal of examples of Always a Bigger Fish and Outside-Context Problem.
- Removal of examples based on a gameplay scenario where the Abrahamic God kills off vampires.
- Removal of examples describing werewolves being stronger than vampires.
Edited by Theriocephalus