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open Is this real life section a RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgment violation?
Before I start, I should address that I brought this up in the violations thread about three days ago
, but I haven't gotten any response.
The page for Sensitivity Training has a Real Life section that seems to be more focused on bashing the concept of sensitivity training. Especially the Drew Carey entry:
- According to Bill Maher, before a group of firefighters was allowed to help hurricane survivors, they were required to attend an 8-hour sexual harassment sensitivity training course. Many would query whether sexual harassment sensitivity training is related to hurricanes and see this as a classic example of Political Correctness Gone Mad. However, traumatized disaster survivors are extremely vulnerable and easily taken advantage of, and aid workers are often in a position of such authority that even the best-meaning agencies have some individuals who will do rather horrible things. Pleasant nightmares.
- In the United States Military, SHARP training is emphasized heavily and is often mocked by the servicemembers. There are several reasons for this, including the generally boring and often offensive nature of the programs (more than a few SHARP sessions have stopped just short of saying, "All men are rapists, but some just don't know it yet"), double standards (it's okay if we do it, but it's racist/sexist/otherwise bad if you do it), lack of applicability ("How does this help us kill people and break shit?" is a frequent complaint), and the fact that the officers administering the SHARP program are frequently caught committing some kind of sexual misconduct.
- Drew Carey spoke in his book about how following a slew of sexual harrassment lawsuits at Warner Bros. in 1996, management made it so everybody who worked on the Warner Brothers lot had to be at, and sign attendance for, one sexual harassment awareness seminar. He thought it was a shame when a great company had to go to such "extreme measure" because of the complaints of a few people, like how safety training is mandatory even though only a few people die each year from work place hazard. The few people being "militant feminists" and "everyone else in this society that needs to play political victim and go to court instead of just dealing with it themselves". A celebrity like him could no longer look a second too long at someone's tits or let the women who worked on his show give him a hug without him freezing up in fear of litigation. This had turned his workplace and "every workplace in America into Salem, Massachusetts".
- While he was at it, he didn't want naval aviators to attend sensitivity training either. And that was in response to the Tailhook scandal.
Carey thought "one uptight biddy" (likely Sheila Widnall, who was made the first female Secretary of the Air Force in the wake of the Tailhook scandal) should not be able to come in and stop such festivities. He also believed that while "grabbing some tits" was wrong, it was nothing to lose a career over, and a wimp who couldn't handle having her tits grabbed without calling "a press conference and a lawyer", should be flying kites not jet fighters. Why a pro-military man would want the military to tolerate behaviors that actively reduce its effectiveness is unclear.
- While he was at it, he didn't want naval aviators to attend sensitivity training either. And that was in response to the Tailhook scandal.
A bracketed-out note was actually added by a troper two years ago
pointing out the Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment violation in the language:
"The following entry definitely needs a rewrite for more neutral language. Rule of Cautious Editing Judgement still applies here, and this entry clearly isn't following that. The entry isn't describing the example so much as just barely paraphrasing it with few quotation marks. And additionally, this entry uses langauge jarringly different from Tv Tropes' usual language. What responsible troper uses the word "tits" in a description? All in all, this entry looks like if somebody reading the book itself went "damn right" and then copied the passage directly into this page, only changing first person into third person and putting a few random parts of sentences in quotes."
Any thoughts?
Edited by SkylaNoivernopenLaconic pages for indexes?
I've noticed that Ghostfreak 45 has been creating laconic pages for Breathing Index, Luck Tropes, Pregnancy Tropes, Please Reflect On This Index, Fairy Tropes, Unicorn Works, Mermaid Media, and more.
The thing is, though, that the laconic is pretty much the same as what's written on the index itself. After all, it's an index, not an actual trope. For example, the Laconic for Breathing Index says "An index of tropes about breathing and/or respiring" while the actual page says "An index of tropes about how characters breathe or respire." Those are pretty much exactly the same.
Is this allowed? Or should all these Laconic pages be cutlisted?
openReadding incorrect entries Web Original
On Characters.Death Battle Season Eight, this entry was added:
- Adaptational Wimp: Not Link himself — who puts up a strong fight against Cloud before losing — but his much-hyped Fierce Deity form, which gets hit almost immediately by Cloud's Omnislash V5 Limit Break and then dies seconds later without even so much as landing an attack.
I removed it with the reasoning that it was less about Link being nerfed and more of Cloud simply being stronger, as seen in the animation itself
.
Then Gf93, a troper that I have brought up multiple
times
for reinserting entries before, readded the entry under Clipped-Wing Angel, which again, does not count since the Fierce Deity is never shown as a detriment to Link.
Is it okay if I remove this entry?
openTrivia and YMMV pages for Creators
A few Creator pages for TV channels still have Trivia and/or YMMV subpages, namely:
- Trivia.Comedy Central
- Trivia.Family Channel
- Trivia.Teletoon
- Trivia.Treehouse TV
- YMMV.Adult Swim
- YMMV.Disney XD
- YMMV.Nickelodeon
- YMMV.Nick Jr
Also, YMMV.Nicktoons has entries for the actual Nicktoons channel, not just the franchise itself.
Edited by AmourMittsopenQuestionable edit on School Setting Simulation.
On School Setting Simulation, Sanmitvtropes not only unilaterally changed one of the description paragraphs without consensus, but they also deleted the Standoff (2018) entry because they claim the game itself has been pulled from distribution.
Courtesy link here
.
openNoRealLife Quotes?
I Reject Your Reality is NoRealLife.Too Controversial, so I assume RL quotes are thus not allowed for the same reason, right? I'll cut it unless I hear any objections.
I've seen No Real Life quote pages use RL examples discussing the trope as opposed to giving specific examples. Are those allowed?
openCan you settle my disputes of MichaelKatsuro's edits on the Ghosts of the Future articles? Webcomic
To complete the plan for my final revisions of the Ghosts of the Future articles and because of the strict Edit War policy and the fact MichaelKatsuro sides with all of his edits, I have to bring up my disputes of MichaelKatsuro's edits here for other tropers to address and suggest ways to settle them. I'd like at least two tropers to address them all.
Webcomic.Ghosts Of The Future / General
- Can the Nipple and Dimed example be reverted back to the previous version? Right now, it's just listing examples of nipple exposure in the comic, which is People Sitting On Chairs. The previous version explored the difference of nipple detail based on gender, which is what the Nipple and Dimed trope is all about.
- What's wrong with the curly brackets? I used to edit [[LikeThis this, when someone one day corrected me to use {{Like|this}}, so I went by that since then (not to mention it saves source code size). Is there a rule against them? Additionally, MichaelKatsuro typo'd Fusion Dance as Fusion Danc.
- Can the adverbs for the Sorceress' nipples can be added back, because they do give a different meaning than without adverbs? Importantly, should we still emphasize the nipples frequently (this is in an American perspective, because I, Evan Stanley, and many tropers are American)? I don't want to traumatize children nor get attacked by angry parents, but I don't want to shame Evan Stanley.
- Can the bit about Evan Stanley Lampshading the Talking Heads trope be added back, since that really adds to the example?
- Revised example for Ghosts of the Future's example on Mohs Scale Of Violence Hardness:
- Ghosts of the Futurenote Would've been a level 6 if it weren't for Sonic dying with large yet crudely-drawn bloody flesh wounds, the sight of Tails' bloody corpse with a large gash in one eye, and a character being impaled in both of his hands which results in thick blood dripping out of his wounds and huge bloodstains
Characters.Ghosts Of The Future
- Why are the "(UNMARKED SPOILERS)" notices removed? Is there a rule against folders with unmarked spoilers now? I think most of the spoilers for characters are Late Arrival Spoilers now, but I'd appreciate if they had spoiler warnings tagged for those wanting to enjoy the comic. I think if there's such a rule, the sheet might as well as Spoilers Off to be fair for all folders.
- Can the Big-Lipped Alligator Moment example be added back? I think the nipples are shocking enough to point Evan Stanley regards them as Old Shame- How about Shocking Moments instead?
- In issue 6, the Sorceress of the Dark Isle transforms into Darkwing and becomes naked. While her other parts are covered up with a Censor Shadow, her nipples are shown, yet lack so much detail they barely count as nipples. Many readers were shocked by this bit of partial nudity showing up in a Sonic fancomic, and Evan Stanley has now sees it as Old Shame.
- (Another Shocking Moments example) In issue 17, readers were shocked by the incident in which Mettalix impales Silver's hands and an abundant amount of red blood draws out.
- Proposed revision of the What Do You Mean, It's Not for Kids? example (and its identical counterpart on the trope example), which I think is better and lacks Word Cruft (Word Cruft takes the form of unnecessary words, these words add more detail for people to get a glimpse of the work; also, should the bit about one of the pages' description on DeviantArt having an erection joke be added back because I think that's still part of the work, as Evan Stanley considers her DeviantArt profile to be the comic's main host, or is the comic itself PG-13 enough to overlook that?):
- Even though Ghosts of the Future is a Sonic The Hedgehog fancomic by who is now an official Sonic comic artist and writer, it is not for children. The comic starts off with Sonic and his best friends being bloodily massacred by a mind-controlled Shadow, which results in Sonic and Shadow enduring trauma and guilt. There's shedding of red blood, infrequent and usually mild profanity, some sexual innuendonote such as the Visual Innuendo of the Sorceress holding the long neck of a jug between her breasts, and brief, non-sexual, and partial nudity in the form of rudimentary-looking yet visibly erect nipples. Nevertheless, little kids still read the comic, which encouraged
Stanley to add Content Warnings to the issue 17 incident.
- Even though Ghosts of the Future is a Sonic The Hedgehog fancomic by who is now an official Sonic comic artist and writer, it is not for children. The comic starts off with Sonic and his best friends being bloodily massacred by a mind-controlled Shadow, which results in Sonic and Shadow enduring trauma and guilt. There's shedding of red blood, infrequent and usually mild profanity, some sexual innuendonote such as the Visual Innuendo of the Sorceress holding the long neck of a jug between her breasts, and brief, non-sexual, and partial nudity in the form of rudimentary-looking yet visibly erect nipples. Nevertheless, little kids still read the comic, which encouraged
- Move Evan Stanley's quote in The Woobie examples to the first bullet point, next the "The Woobie:".
openQuestionable use of SixthRanger on Yu Gi Oh Card Game Character Sheets
So a lot of folders on the Yu-Gi-Oh! Card Game Character Sheets use Sixth Ranger to describe... a lot of different things. These uses primarily concern the relationships between individual monster cards and card archetypes, likening the archetype to the ensemble and the individual monster to the sixth ranger in the definition of Sixth Ranger.
- Often times, the trope is used when a monster card that is not a member of the archetype supports the archetype's playstyle. These individual monster cards are sometimes related to the archetype's theme and/or have explicit lines in their effects that name the archetype, while other times the monster-archetype connections are more fuzzy and the connections are purely on the gameplay level.
- Example: Characters.Yu Gi Oh Card Game A To B, Burning Abyss: While not a Burning Abyss monster herself, Beatrice, Lady of the Eternal supports the archetype and can use a Dante monster as a shortcut to summon herself. (Writer's note: Beatrice is theme-wise directly related to the Burning Abyss archetype)
- Sometimes, this trope is used when an archetype receives new supporting archetype monsters long after its debut.
- Example: Characters.Yu Gi Oh Card Game A To B, A-to-Z: The ABC machines were added long after the VWXYZ series were introduced.
- More rarely, it's used when a card is a member of an archetype (often on purely technical, Exact Words scenarios) but supports the archetypal playstyle poorly.
- Example: Characters.Yu Gi Oh Card Game E To F, Egyptian Gods: Because of its name, Blaze Cannon is a member of the Blaze Accelerator archetype, and can thus be added from the Deck or Graveyard to the hand with the effect of Volcanic Rocket. However, it is unrelated to other Blaze Accelerator cards and the Volcanic monsters, and does not support their playstyle.
There might be some other fringe uses that I haven't fully covered.
My question is, are these uses misuses? Should I cut them or rephrase them to fit the trope better?
Edited by WuzopenI think the external links section of Creepypasta is too big
See for your self, Creepypasta. It also include a very dubious entry like this.
- The Untitled Fantendo Story
sorta fits this, especially in the "real life" chapters. Has a much happier ending, since the author did not write it intending for it to be creepypasta-like.
I think it should be cut down to just collection sites.
openVideo Player Report Feature
What is the Report feature on the video player meant for reporting? Is it for each specific video, or for problems with the video player itself?
EDIT: If it is for each video, can we use this feature to report videos that don't fit the trope they're on? Or is it just for videos with inappropriate content or stuff like that?
Edited by DrNoPumaresolved Two more screwed up custom titles
Bara and Girl Love (both of them locked redirects) are displaying as "Bara Genre" and "Yuri Genre" respectively. This type of move was common in the old days, but we no longer allow custom title renames.
The latter is not to be confused with Girls' Love, itself a redirect to Yuri Genre, which displays properly.
(If the following links both display correctly, the issue has been fixed: Bara, Girl Love.)
openReligiousAndMythologicalThemeNaming and a Halo franchise example with possible spoilers Videogame
My main concern is how to write this so as to avert creating a Self-Fulfilling Spoiler. The Flood in Halo is very clearly named after the Genesis flood narrative, but how would I go about adding this in to the page without creating a Self-Fulfilling Spoiler since in the backstory, the Flood were effectively created as a means to purge the Forerunners, who retaliated by creating an Ark to preserve most species?
Edited by EclipseMTopenSelf demonstration on We Didn't Start the Billy Joel Parodies
Is the description of We Didn't Start the Billy Joel Parodies taking it too far?
openBrewing edit war
This is a little thing, but FFaddict
created the page AwesomeMusic.Gameboys and put the names of the tracks on the page in italics; per multiple style guides (here's the Other Wiki's take, for a start
), short track names go in quotes, not italics, so I changed them to quotes (as well as sending a grammar notifier for other issues on the page). They reverted them to italics without an edit reason or acknowledging the notifier. So I probably strayed into edit war territory myself by re-reverting them to quotes and sending them a customised notifier explaining that song titles go in quotes. They have since re-re-reverted them to italics, again without an edit reason or acknowledging the notifier.
I know I should have come here after the first reversion, for which I apologise. But I'm getting off this merry-go-round while I still can; it's clear they aren't listening.
Edited by mlsmithcaopenDo we write that Elliot Page is non-binary?
As I mentioned in a previous post, Elliot Page has come out as transgender, and his pronouns are he/him and they/them. However, many call him non-binary even though he himself never used that term about himself (to the best of my knowledge.
I removed the term non-binary from his page, but it was added back with the explanation that "GLAAD has stated that they are non-binary, so I’ll take their word on it
."
However, in the public statement by Elliot Page that GLAAD use as their source, Page never once uses the term non-binary.
Thoughts?
Edited by MichaelKatsuro
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
openZettai Ryouiki's widespread ZCEs and back-and-fourth
For a long while now, Zettai Ryouiki has presented problem after problem to the wiki. Thread
after thread
after thread
has been made about it. Most recently, this thread
has mostly agreed it is a ZCE magnet that may need to be massively changed, if not cut. And yet, every time, nothing is done, or only superficial solutions like restricting it to A or S subtypes are implemented. But the problem of the ZCEs still remains. So, I made a post
at the end of said thread to revive it, but basically I want something to be done. I will probably do a wick check and take it to TRS myself, but I still want to hear your thoughts.
open Unintentionally Unsympathetic proposal
There has been discussion in Unintentionally Unsympathetic cleanup about adding this example to UnintentionallyUnsympathetic.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic:
- In "The Ending of the End", Discord was revealed to have impersonated Grogar and brought together the villains for Twilight Sparkle to defeat thus teaching her confidence, only for them to become a genuine threat. After being called out for endangering Equestria and redeeming himself by risking his life, Discord's turning the villains to stone, as they have proven so evil and irredeemable their prior punishments were insufficient, was met with approval from all the heroes. But "Grogar" had used implied death threats and their powers to force the villains into adding his plan that was possibly little different than what the villains did independently, the villains actions weren't worse then their previous evildoings, and were never given a chance to redeem themselves as Discord was. This caused many fans to consider Discord's punishing them as unfair given he forced them into a position where they would have been punished just as harshly even if they hadn't proven themself so irredeemable.
I asked
about putting a similarly written entry under Unintentionally Sympathetic, but a mod said there was too much Broken Base to say. Someone from cleanup argued even if US was deemed not to apply UU might. I'm skeptical but want to hear it out so this long standing debate can be resolved.
From YMMV.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic S 9 E 25 The Ending Of The End Part 2:
- Broken Base: Discord being the one to decide the villains' fate (and to perform it himself). Some feel this was a fitting way to make up for his actions seeing it as him using his powers for good to put a stop to evil, fixing the mistake he made by getting rid of the threat, while others feel that he had no right to punish them when he was responsible for all their crimes. There's also the fact that Tirek and Cozy Glow were already serving their sentences, and wouldn't have been in this position at all if he hadn't broken them out.
Is there any reason to give UU it's own entry as opposed to putting it under the BB? Is it fine if they are such separate pages? If BB potentiality disqualifies UU/US there is a lot of cleanup to do.
Edited by Ferot_DreadnaughtopenPrejudice Tropes self-demonstrating examples
Most of the tropes listed on the index Prejudice Tropes currently have a short, self demonstrating description of the trope, generally written from the perspective of someone who shares that particular prejudice. For several reasons, I wonder if this is really the best way to describe tropes of this nature. For one, descriptions written in such a manner sacrifice clarity in a similar way to Example as a Thesis, giving an example of the trope being described in place of a proper description thereof. Furthermore, there are some that definitely cross the line — the f-slur and t-slur cropped up multiple times — and that I find very hard to justify in this context. While I understand the intent, I worry that those newer to the site and less familiar with our standards (in particular Tropes Are Not Good and Prescriptive vs. Descriptive Language) could easily get the wrong idea from this page. Would it be a good idea to rewrite these examples for the sake of clarity and neutrality?
Edited by MahoxyopenRemoved entires in FranchiseOriginalSin/WorldOfWarcraft that i feel need to be restored Videogame
While a few of those probably warranted their removal, i feel that at least three of them should be restored/re-added:
- The Night Elves Badass Decay, which started as them going from a power equivalent, if not greater, than the Horde and Alliance to being just another of the four Alliance factions, and culminated into them beign the victims of a genocide with their "vengeance" being toothless at best..
- the Forsaken's straddling of the Token Evil Teammate/Nominal Hero line from their very inception.
- The developpers' self admitted Creator Favorite attitude toward writing Horde content, which started with the world revamp of Cata being Horde-focused (i think they event wrote a blog post apologizing about that one, even), and continued all the way to the genocide of an Alliance race beign used as fodder for Horde/Saurfang story developpment.

Self-explanatory, really. Since Quietly Cancelled got launched today, I'm concerned that there will be misuse of examples pre-maturally calling works on hiatus "cancelled". I think there should be a waiting period of sorts to make sure the works are actually cancelled before adding examples, but what do you think?