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openRule of Editing Judgement Potholes
Does anyone else find the trend of putting things on pages like "and that's all were going to day about that" potholed to Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgement instead of just not mentioning it at all really condescending and obnoxious?
Almost seems like a dare to start a flamewar in and of itself.
Edited by shoboniopenDarkness Induced Audience Apathy Misuse?
From DarknessInducedAudienceApathy.Video Games:
- Overwatch suffers from a variant of this effect. Most of the characters are genuinely good, likable people, and the story places a lot of emphasis on the importance of hope and heroism in a troubled world. But if you set all that aside and examine the story for what it actually is, you'll find something far more grim than the bright colors and fun characters would suggest. The game needed its own Woobie page before it was even six months old. Many of the heroes are defined by the ways in which they’ve failed, and most of them have made no progress toward their goals, and not for lack of trying, either. The villains are likewise not entirely unsympathetic, but they're also directly and unrepentantly responsible for a lot of the world's problems, and they're not doing anything to helpnote Well, maybe except for one, who might be covertly trying to expose the Greater-Scope Villain, but even she is an Unreliable Narrator who has exhibited some sociopathic traits and likely isn't acting out of the goodness of her heart. The crux of the problem is that the story initiated itself under pretty dire circumstances, with the titular organization in ruins while its enemies remain at large. The plot could be summarized as "Talon enacts its agenda, and Overwatch rises from its ashes to defend the world", but the glacial rate of progression means the lore has stalled in the "Talon enacts its agenda" stage, leaving the main conflict to become increasingly lopsided as the heroes continue to struggle with no appreciable payoff while some of their most noteworthy accomplishments are outright undone by later developments. Keeping the torch lit during dark times is one of the narrative's core themes, but when the darkness starts eating the torch, it's easy to feel like you're just being strung along.
The pointing out sympathetic characters exist and hope as a theme seem to argue with itself, and most of the issue seems to be Arc Fatigue and less this trope. Cut?
openThe Simpsons Memetic Mutation Cleanup Western Animation
I'm looking at The Simpsons and I'm seeing that while all of the entries have notes next to them now, they still mostly consist of quotes with the explanation describing where they came from, rather than how they're actually memeworthy. I'm not knowledgeable enough about the show in detail to clean it up myself, unfortunately. I can verify from my own experience as a non-fan which quotes are definitely memeworthy, however.
Edited by AlleyOopopenDo we have a project to disambig works?
I noticed that that several Tropers were asking about making work pages of the same title and namespace into disambig pages like Malady's one here
or Crossover-Enthusiast's here
and I was wondering if there is project for that sort of thing like the Franchise Namespace Correction where Tropers can add pages to moved and discuss what needed to be done
A quick check and I can only find the Changing Main redirects into Disambigs....
forum thread
I have done a few myself but I know of some more that might nee changing like Max Steel/Max Steel (2013), The Secret Life of Walter Mitty/The Secret Life of Walter Mitty (1947), Dillinger/Dillinger (1945)
openSome anvils needed to be dropped Western Animation
Are these examples on the YMMV.Jem page examples of Some Anvils Need to Be Dropped? The Jem pages in general have a lot of Weasel Words.
"**In Video Wars, Video explains that her career as a filmmaker is quite difficult, since she has to constantly work hard at maintaining her success. Despite everything, she doesn't give up on it and loves her work. This wasn't presented in an over-the-top, ridiculous sort of aesop, nor was it even the main message of the episode, but it acts as a nice way to tell kids that having careers and jobs are never easy, but if you love what you do and keep at it, it's all worth it. The show itself seems to be an example of that message; disregarding the animation, the staff obviously put a lot of effort into the characters and gave them distinct personalities, as well as working hard on the writing, music and fashion (seriously, though; how often do you see cartoon characters in different outfits? And if so, how many are so intricately designed?)
"**With the exception of Eric Raymond, Techrat, and Zipper, the writers made it a point that neither the Misfits or the Stingers were pure evil and had their soft sides (especially Stormer), and that there was a reason why they were like that. The Holograms weren't pure and had their flaws. This seems to say that people have multiple aspects to their personalities, and that even so-called perfect people have their hang-ups, and the worst offender might not be so bad given the chance. "
Edited by lalalei2001openTroping Music Videos Music
Should tropes that occur in music videos (but not the song itself) still be listed in the Music section of a trope page?
openKings Quest 2015 Videogame
There are huuuuuuuuge, nattery, too-detailed lists on King's Quest (2015) pages to the point that deleting them frees up a ton of room, and every reference to the old games is added to the page as they happen. Plus there's losing sight of the original trope or not fitting the trope.
Examples include under Chaos Architecture, Broad Strokes, Continuity Nod, Deconstruction, and Unreliable Narrator. and a mistaken trivia entry for Alternate Continuity used to have a terrifyingly long list until I deleted it when putting it back on the main page. I can add it back if you guys want.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=VideoGame.KingsQuest2015
Should I delete the lengthy entries entirely while giving a generalized example, IE "* Continuity Nod: There's lots of name drops and nods to material from the classic games, and even The King's Quest Companions, thrown in as fun references for old time fans who might be keeping track. Some of these nods include 'alternate' visual adaptations of the box art from the original series, while others include specific creatures and events that are non-canon in this series." or move them to a new page?
EDIT: These entries on the YMMV page are suspect too.
" Protagonist-Centered Morality: The game falls into this with the way Graham treats his two grandchildren. Graham is the hero, so anything he does is more or less indicated to be okay - including the fact that he clearly favors his granddaughter Gwen over his grandson Gart, to the point that he names her his heir, making her Queen of Daventry when he dies. This is despite Gart being the older grandchild, and the one who actually lives in Daventry with his grandfather. Gart himself is given a few minor character flaws, while Gwen isn't shown to have any; she becomes the player character in the epilogue of the game, meaning that she has apparently also inherited Graham's Protagonist Centered Morality. "
"Vocal Minority: When the first chapter was released, the reaction was positive for the most part, but those who didn't like it were much louder than those who did.
- There are/were people who believe it was made with money stolen from the Hiveswap Kickstarter and were very displeased with this. There's no proof as far as we know; Andrew Hussie himself has said he can't take legal action and has tried to keep angry Homestuck fans from doing anything. "
openUNINTENTIONALLY UNSYMPATHETIC MISUSE?
From ''Harry Potter":
- Base-Breaking Character example: certain members of the Weasley family can come off as this for the fans that feel they're major Creators Pets.
- Fred and George fall into this category for some, who find their Naughty Is Good mentality and propensity for playing often destructive pranks as more indicative of amoral bullies than carefree pranksters. This reached a crux in, yet again, Order of the Phoenix, where a prank they play on one of Professor Umbridge's minions nearly - albeit accidentally - kills the unfortunate schmuck in question. There's also the fact that after leaving school, the joke shop they open explicitly makes most of its money from love potions, which are presented in the narrative as being like magical Date Rape drugs (a comparison Dumbledore makes explicitly).
- Ron comes off as this for the fans that find his flaws annoying rather than sympathetic or likable. His self-righteous attitude, tendency to get easily jealous (to the point that he turned his back on Harry in the fourth book, and then abandoned Harry and Hermione in the middle of the seventh book over the locket), and his lazy attitude towards working in general (while bemoaning his status as the Can't Catch Up Butt-Monkey) have only added on to this. The films just exacerbate this, since nearly all of his heroic moments from the books were either removed or given to Hermione instead, turning him into The Load and leaving viewers questioning just what his good qualities were supposed to be in the first place.
- Molly can be this for the fans that find her shrill, demanding and annoying. The implication that she wanted a daughter so badly that she kept popping out kids until she got one (leaving Ron feeling like The Un-Favorite) also hasn't helped her case. Then there's her treatment of Hermione in the fourth book when she buys into the lies Rita Skeeter is publishing about her.
- Ginny also comes off this way due to her personality completely changing from the second book to the sixth and Harry's extremely sudden, poorly-written feelings for her. In the fifth book Harry is worried because he can see what Voldemort is doing and lashes out at his friends. Ginny basically tells him to shut up because she was possessed by Tom Riddle in the second book and isn't complaining about it, but Ginny herself admits that she doesn't remember what she was doing during those periods. Combined with her bossy, aggressive nature and the fact she's never shown to be in the wrong leads her to coming off very insufferable and bratty.
The Base-Breaking part suggest it's not universal enough to count. Fred and George were commented out "because none of their pranks ever killed anyone. The prank in question mentioned here was shoving someone into a broken Vanishing Cabinet. The kid was not in danger of dying until HE decided to get himself out of limbo by Apparating without having a license." Ron and Molly weren't supposed to be sympathetic for those flaws, with Ron regretting the former. Ginny's possibly valid example has nothing to do with "her personality completely changing from the second book to the sixth and Harry's extremely sudden, poorly-written feelings for her", making it seem like complaining.
Should I cut or revise any of them? I'd bring this to the Unintentionally Unsympathetic Cleanup
but they still haven't replied to my last inquiry.
opensmall edit war
Recently, i questioned in the "is this an example" thread about a Composite Character example that was with a "hidden" marking in Pokémon: I Choose You!, in Ash's folder:
- Composite Character: Of himself throughout the main anime series.
After read the answer, i waited some days and removed the example with "I questioned in the " is this an example " thread, wording the question as "Considering that all the main anime series belong to the same continuity, is this an actual example? " . The only answer i received was "You can't be a Composite Character of yourself, that's ridiculous. "" as edit reason.
Shadao(That included the example originally) included the example again with "Ash (M20) is NOT the same Ash from the main series." as edit reason and the following wording:
- Composite Character: Design-wise, his outfit in Everyone's Story takes cues from his Unova design (a white jacket with blue and white highlights) and his Alola design (baggy shorts and blue shoes).
(Out of note, M20 is an abbreviation to Movie 20, that is in an Alternate Continuity. Ash uses the Unova design and the Alola design in the main series.)
Edited by MagBasopenSpoiler issue on VideoGame.KingdomHearts3 Videogame
Yesterday, I removed the spoiler markup from the All White Entries on VideoGame.Kingdom Hearts 3. Tropers.Ashlay whited-out a massive chunk of a sub-example with the following edit reason:
"most people haven't seen or played X, this needs context. and spoiler tags."
Here is the sub-entry in question:
- The epilogue has Xigbar revealed to be Luxu, the original owner of Master Xehanort's keyblade. He then summons four of his fellow seven Foretellers, ancient Keyblade wielders associated with The Seven Deadly Sins whose actions brought about the first Keyblade War that literally ripped the worlds apart into what they are today, minus Ava (Greed) and their master (Pride). And, as Maleficent and Pete watch from afar, Luxu begins filling his cohorts in on what's been going on in the ages they've been away and what the plan is from here on. Finally, the game pulls out to the Framing Device, as a Young Eraqus and Xehanort start a new chess game representing the future conflict of the Seven Foretellers vs Sora.
From what I can tell, it violates Administrivia.Self Fulfilling Spoiler since it hides so much of the text. Is this level of markup kosher?
I have sent them a notifier regarding spoilers, but they have yet to respond. I'm asking here, too, to avoid an Edit War.
openPossible Real Life Example?
Doing a cleanup binge and came across Wreckless Media Radio. The ZC Es that were there aside, I want to ask about this example:
- Karma Houdini:
- Corpolongo once made a mess in a bar because the girl working there cut him off. He walked out afterwards with practically no problems. Being a bartender himself must have helped.
- The guys got a person hit by a car by challenging his faith. They still haven't been caught.
- Evil Greg allegedly is the reason a truck of Crown Royal crashed and exploded... because he was doing parkour.
Karma Houdini is tagged as NRLEP. The third one is most definitely just a character, and I would hope the second one is, but what about the first? I don't know this podcast, so I'd appreciate some input.
openMan of a Thousand Voices
Why is Man of a Thousand Voices, which is specifically about voice actors, not Trivia? The related Talking To Himself is.
openReport (Speculation)
I am engaged in a debate with a fellow troper named Emberfist about the Live-Action TV section of Idiot Plot. The subsection in particular is Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice. As of late, Emberfist's justifications as to why the subsection should remain there are based off assumptions and oversimplifications. I provide detailed explanations as to why these opinions are incorrect and do not belong (you can check out the Discussion Page for yourself). He does little to rebut my statements, simply paraphrasing and rephrasing the same argument. He intends to keep all the examples, despite another Troper having arguing against them for the reasons I listed. I have tried to compromise; offering to delete the most egregious examples and move the rest to the YMMV subsection. Emberfist will not listen.
Because I wish to avoid Edit-Warring, I have chosen not to directly edit the page myself and will instead to defer to you guys.
What should I do?
openHow Ron the Death Eater works
Question: I'm a little confused as to why the Ron the Death Eater page demands fanfic examples.
My line of thought:
1 The page is inconsistent about it. Some examples give no fanfics as proof 2 If the RDE-ing of a character is common enough, finding a fic as proof just feels like picking on one particular author amongst a crowd. This goes double for characters who are commonly bashed/hated because of ships, etc etc. as fics subjectng them to Ron the Death Eater will be ten a penny. 3 It's also not the only place that RDE-ing of a character will take place - any debate thread on social media/forums is bound to give rise to this in one form or another 4 Its equivalent, Draco in Leather Pants, doesn't require examples, even though its the mirror image of RDE.
Is there a reason fanfics are required as proof? If there is, then it needs more enforcement on the page itself (some video game entries have no proof example given) and if not then they should be reworded to general entries.
openIndex help
Supporting The Monster Loved One
is ready to launch, but I'm not sure what indexes to put it on. Obviously I don't want to launch with no indexes for it, so I'm looking for suggestions. I asked on the draft itself and got no reply, and the thread for this is too slow, so I'm asking here.
Update: I think I'm good, people at the TLP gave me some good index ideas.
Edited by WarJay77openStranged By the Red String, HTTYD: Hidden World Film
"Not only is applying this to a couple of animals weird on itself but a solid third of the movie is dedicated to the courtship. If you don't like it, put it in broken base, but this does not fit SBTRS"
So I added this example because, while the movie's about Toothless and the Light fury, it's not about their courtship; they have one scene dedicated to their courtship. They pretty much fall in love at first sight, have their four minute "first date", and the rest of the movie is about their relationship taking precedence over literally every other character, relationship, priority, and theme HTTYD has ever presented to us. Thoughts?
Edited by Spacecoyote
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
openIs Fallout 76 So Bad It's Horrible?
Fallout 76 has been added to Horrible.Video Game Generations Seventh Onwards.
It has a Metacritic score of 51, with most critic reviews being mixed rather than outright negative, making me think the addition is a knee-jerk reaction to the controversy currently surrounding the game.
The sentence starting with "While the full fallout of the disaster haven't been seen..." may be in violation of Examples Are Not Recent since it's using language that makes it sound like the issues mentioned are still ongoing (which they are, but will most likely stop being so in a few days' or weeks' time), on top of not actually being about the game itself.
openFan Hater.
YMMV.K On has Fan Hater. The page itself mention it should only be put on ymmv page but the examples are in universe only.

With Twitter now doubled their character count to some users (I havn't have that yet as of 2017/10/01), as I was editing the page to tweak out the recent edit from a user named reterusu, I left out this part out of reluctance to remove it and had to consult to you guys about it first:
I think it's more of a Broken Base than a metaphorical shark jump for having 280 characters, (I myself kinda like that idea. 280 is more than enough to add more tags.) but I'll let you think about it more. I intentionally left that sentence because I thought to myself that removing that might start a potential Edit War.EDIT: Changed some instances of "this troper" to "I to avoid confusion.
EDIT 2: I wasn't being clear here. My bad. The 'this troper' to 'I' edit" was for this thread only.
Edited by alnair20aug93