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openWanted to bring up a case on a new user.
The main reason I'm bringing it up here instead of attempting to give a PM to them, is because they're currently edit banned for a rogue launch reason, so I wasn't sure if giving it there would work out.
But to get to what I mean, I wanted to bring up the, so far only, edit of new troper karryoke. Specifically, this edit
on The Angry Birds Movie. I removed the edit myself, but this edit just feels like a big mess of what not to do: a link-heavy ZCE that was placed on the top of the page (despite being an S-starting trope), that's also a YMMV trope. Plus, there's something about the way it's worded, as if these scenes are meant to be good parts of the movie.
openGenshin Impact - major gamebreaker page renovation Videogame
Genshin Impact's gamebreaker page has become a bit bloated, so myself and another troper have been proposing ways to trim it down. But because this is going to be a very large-scale edit, I wanted more than just one other voice on this before we start pruning. My proposed changes are:
1. Gamebreakers are based on spiral abyss performance only. It's the only "endgame" content and the main-game and timed events are generally too easy to warrant a gamebreaker page. I'd also like to add a disclaimer that gamebreakers are not necessary to "win" at this game since the spiral abyss has very little rewards and this is an expensive Gacha game.
2. Character write-ups focus on their gamebreaking aspects only. Currently they seem to go over every part of their kit leading to bloated entries often getting too far into walkthrough mode or adding meaningless dribble.
3. Cut the artifacts section. It focuses on set bonuses, which while nice are not as important as the substats at the mercy of RNG (so a mixed set with great substats will beat a set bonus with meh stats). That and most characters have more than one viable set, so which is "gamebreaking" is subjective. The Emblem of Severed Fate is the only one worth keeping imo, as while others just amplify already strong characters this one actually fixes holes and makes certain playstyles viable.
4. Cut the elemental reactions section. At this time about two-thirds of all the reactions in the game are listed, making the list less novel. About every reaction has a viable team set-up, so at this point we're just saying it pays to use the game's central mechanic.
What do you think?
openNarm - flame bait status?
Narm is marked as a YMMV trope, but not Flame Bait.
However, the medium-specific subpages for Narm are marked as Flame Bait.
Shouldn't Narm itself be marked that way?
Or is the intent really that mediums with no subpage (E.g. Tabletop Game) can continue to add Narm to their works' ymmv pages, and can crosswick to the main Narm page without ever seeing those flamebait warnings?
Thanks!
openTroper forcing a CompleteMonster pothole on a non-YMMV page
First of all: yes, I'm aware the Complete Monster trope is currently going through some major revisions, and the cleanup threads are being revamped right now, so directing them to the thread isn't going to help out much.
That said:
Fidor
just added a Complete Monster pothole to Characters.IT with an EDIT reason that boils down to "I want to pothole Complete Monster to a non-YMMV page regardless what the rules says, because I just want to...."
Looking through the page's history of 500-odd edits, this isn't the first time someone had tried forcing a CM pothole up there, including an instance in 2016 where the CM curator ACW removed a Complete Monster pothole because... well, it's a YMMV trope. Note that it's clearly specified on the page itself: there's no In-Universe trope for Complete Monster
, characters calling out others is You Monster!
And that Fidor
is a new troper who barely had any edits, yet is already insisting on potholing a YMMV item on a character page...
open Edit War on Love of Kill Anime
I swore to myself I was going to avoid this page from now on but I need to report myself and another troper for edit-warring. Back in January I added the following example to Love of Kill (and admittedly with an unnecessarily rude edit reason because I was furious at having wasted my lunch break watching it, thinking it would be similar to SPY×FAMILY).
- Sexual Extortion: Song (AN: male lead) spends the first episode (or first few manga chapters) extorting a "date" from Chateau (AN: female lead) in exchange for information she needs for her day job and only manages to not actually rape her because she finally musters the nerve to actually leave the hotel room he takes her to at the end of it. He still manages to force a hug on her before she gets on the train to go home.
This example was first modified due to a factual error in the original version (perfectly okay), and then deleted outright by Ominae (not okay). I re-added it, and then immediately realized I was edit-warring and posted on the discussion tab
. I fully admit I blew it.
Without checking the discussion tab or taking note of the legal definition of sexual harassment, Ominae removed the example again.
I freely admit that I was unnecessarily rude and have an irrational hatred for this series (I consider it to be the best fantasy for incels since Redo Of Healer), but everything in the example is factually correct.
openTrailer spoiler markup
YMMV.My Little Pony Make Your Mark
- One-Scene Wonder: Opaline, the then unnamed villainous alicorn, only appeared for a few seconds in the premier, but became its most talked about part due to the likely ramifications they'd have for the backstory and series going forward and speculation about their identity.
- Tainted by the Preview: Twilight's appearance at the end of the second chapter trailer has received some criticism for looking like her normal self, as opposed to her post-Time Skip Alicorn appearance in the series finale of My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic.
The latter I'm not sure about spoiling as it was in the trailer so it is not supposed to be a spoiler or so exposed that spoiling it is moot.
The former was a legit spoiler in the series premiere, but was also shown in said trailer. So is that the point we can un-spoil them? If not when (they seem poised to be the Big Bad so it's nigh-impossible to discuss the series without spoiling them)?
openHandmaid's Tale ROCEJ?
This is an example on the YMMV page
for The Handmaid's Tale, under They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot. It was added added by drmeagher13:
- Simiarly, there are no vocally non-religious characters in the show. In spite of the show taking place in a religiously-derived dystopia, no one seems to suggest that maybe religion itself is the problem. The tenets of Gilead are indeed derived from lines of the Bible, and no one seems to suggest that maybe disregarding the whole thing might be a good idea. Instead, the heroes seem to all be cut from the cloth of more mild religion. A major example is June sympathetically baptizing her child in the Catholic Church, which in the real world has been implicated of routine systemic child abuse, much like Gilead in the show. It represents another failure of representation on the show.
While I can certainly see the TWAPGP part of having no vocally non-religious characters in a religion-dictated dystopia, parts of this example seem like they're pushing into ROCEJ territory, especially the bit about baptism and child abuse.
open The Issue of Snapdragon
So, in High Guardian Spice, there's a character named Snapdragon who struggles with their gender identity and was eventually confirmed in an external source to be Trans. Our page (and other wiki-based sources) only describes them with female pronouns as a result...
...But there's a problem here. See, in the show proper, Snapdragon was never actually confirmed to be Trans. Everyone calls them male, and it ended on the note of them starting to consider their options, with the biggest change being Snap starting to paint their nails. So there's a case that can be made that they should actually be called by male pronouns, to keep it consistent with the work itself even if it ultimately contradicts Word of God.
I brought this up here
, but nobody replied there and I didn't know if it was the right thread anyway, but it's been on my mind and I think we need to figure out the correct course of action. Similar to how we did for that character from One Piece people won't stop arguing about, or the Toaster from Brave Little Toaster.
openOdd edit reason
Nightwolf Gamer 03 appears to be a new account, with only one edit made today. That wouldn't be too much to talk about, but the edit itself is a bit... questionable. Specifically, on LGBT Representation in Media, they replaced
an instance of "agender" on a point about Craig of the Creek with "non-binary" with the edit reason "Agender does not equal non-binary. Agender equals agender. Non-binary equals non-binary." If memory serves, agender is indeed part of the nonbinary spectrum (it's the black stripe on the nonbinary pride flag), and nonbinary is itself an umbrella term for gender identities that fall outside the western "male/female" model, so the edit feels a bit gatekeep-y in a somewhat shifty sort of way. Thoughts on how to address it?
openCut, move, or issues?
riddlerfan added this to YMMV.The Sith Resurgence:
- Some Anvils Need to Be Dropped: Lily Orchard has made two
videos
on why Aliana's ideology of doing "dirty actions" for the greater good is important and morally correct, and upholding your morality and ideals when other's lives are in jeopardy is selfish and egocentric.
SANTBD is now a redirect to Anvilicious, which is just about the Aesop being heavy handed not how liked/disliked it is. I believe this is not an example as the message is not heavy handed if it's not in the work proper.
I believe this page had issues prior so I'm bringing here first. What to do?
open"Cowboy BeBop at His Computer" misuse?
Common Knowledge states Cowboy BeBop at His Computer is a sub-trope where "Documentations of a work get their facts about the work blatantly wrong, to the point that people familiar enough with the work will know that they didn't do their research properly." My impression was that it only applied to professional publications, is that the case?
From Cupcakes (Sergeant Sprinkles):
- Common Knowledge:
- This story is very frequently cited as a Creepypasta. It was never intended to be one. It's a fanfic, or a Dark Fic more specifically.
- Everyone "knows" this fic started the trend of Pinkie having a violent, stoic alter ego that goes by "Pinkamena Diane Pie", inspired by a disturbing scene in "Party of One" where a flat-haired and schizoid Pinkie has a conversation with various inanimate objects. Not only was the fic released before "Party of One" premiered, but Pinkie is her usual curly-maned and cheerful self despite torturing ponies to death, and this supposed "Pinkamena" alter ego never appears at all. A lot of the unease of the fic comes from the fact that Pinkie, as her normal happy-go-lucky hyperactive self, is either unaware of or apathetic to the horrors she's committing; an evil and murderous alternate personality would defeat the whole point. The blog Ask Pinkamina Diane Pie probably didn't help.
- Cowboy BeBop at His Computer:
- Many people believe that it's "Pinkamena Diane Pie" (flat-haired, depressive-to-psychotic Pinkie) who does all the slaughtering in Cupcakes, something that fan art frequently supports. Not only have they clearly never read the fic, but they don't know either that Cupcakes was released before the premiere of "Party of One", the first episode to have Pinkie turn back into Pinkamena. So when Cupcakes was published, let alone written, Pinkamena didn't even exist yet.
- When "Party of One" premiered, many thought they saw disturbing parallels to Cupcakes. In fact, however, they only saw parallels to what they believed Cupcakes is about without daring to verify.
- Pinkamena is complicated. Straight hair equaling Sanity Slippage comes from Party of One, Sanity Slippage equaling basement torture chamber comes from Cupcakes, "Pinkamena" as the name for straight-haired Pinkie comes from the fact that she always had straight hair back on the rock farm where she went by her whole name. Put it all together and what do you get
?
I believe Cowboy is misused here as it's fans/fanon that gets these facts wrong as opposed to documentations of the work. Should it be cut as it's already under the more fitting Common?
Also, CowboyBebopAtHisComputer.The Mysterious Mr Enter is all examples that were cut from the disambiguation Critical Research Failure. Cleanup
said to just cut them which I will per that, and due to misuse as it only applies/goes under the works that have the errors made about them, not the works making the errors. Any objections?
And if CBAHC is about professional documentations of the work, do web reviewers/personalities not count? Or can they if they have sufficient notoriety?
UPDATE: Asked Is this an example?
open Problem with TheSquad
I come across this example on SCP: Overlord.
- The Squad / The Team:
- Lambert: The Leader.
- Reyes:
- Kolinski:
- Designated Point Man: He becomes this after finding the anomalous camera.
- The Hero.
- Jansen: The Hacker.
- Besson: Combat Medic.
- Cicero: Plucky Comic Relief (Downplayed).
I removed it
citing tropeslasing, ZCE, and indentation problem (I also sent the tropeslashing notifier to the troper who added it, but neither ZCE since they already got one from another edit nor indentation (I just forgot that)). They added it back later
, without tropeslasing but otherwise the same.
At first, I was about to report them as problematic troper. But as noted, I didn't sent them the indentation the first time. And for ZCE, I'm surprised that even The Squad page itself is so light on context that none of the examples there explain how each of the members fit the roles. So I'm willing to assume that the troper just learned from bad examples and think it's good enough.
So I'm going to send them a second ZCE notifier after this post. But really, The Squad's example section looks pretty bad (and consider how TRS never actually fix the problem for its cousin "The Team but more specific" Five-Man Band, I have little faith in that).
openOverhauling or deleting the Prince's Associates page Music
I noticed that Prince's Associates is in the complaining cleanup sandbox, and for good reason. However, looking it over got me thinking about how weird the whole concept of the page is. I don't know of another page with that many different creators listed on it that isn't an index, their only commonality being their collaboration with one artist. It was written a long time ago so I don't know the thought process behind its creation, but it appears the original writer wanted simply to tell a story about Prince (hence the entries being in chronological rather than alphabetical order) and didn't think the artists were interesting enough to warrant their own pages. But since There Is No Such Thing as Notability some of them have gotten their own pages anyway, which makes me wonder if we're better off breaking up the whole page and perhaps leaving it as an actual index or a redirect to Prince himself.
I'm not sure of the proper way to go about this, though. Making major changes to work and creator pages doesn't seem to require the same rigamarole as changing tropes, but I'm thinking that this is too drastic a change to just undertake myself. What do you suggest?
Edited by CamassiaopenReporting an Edit War
So on YMMV.Girl Meets World reddieforthis added
this The Scrappy entry:
- Riley herself is often viewed as this retroactively. Especially when she forces her views on her friends.
I removed
it because Riley is not consistently hated like The Scrappy is supposed to be. She's a Base-Breaking Character though. reddieforthis then added
this nearly identical The Scrappy entry for Riley without an edit reason or discussing it anywhere:
- Riley herself has become this retroactively. Due to her pompous attitude on certain subjects, and her inability to see other points of view. Some have pointed out how exhausting it must be to be her friend.
This is an Edit War correct?
Edited by BullmanopenPro-Heard edit
- Johnny Depp was fired from the Fantastic Beasts series in the middle of production of the then-upcoming third film when he lost a libel case against a tabloid in the UK in November 2020. The tabloid had run a headline calling him a "wife beater" in the context of talking about him remaining in the series despite allegations of domestic violence against him by ex-wife, Amber Heard.note He was cast sometime in 2015 for the first film in the series but his role (which in that film was really just a glorified cameo) was kept secret until the film came out in November 2016, by which time Heard had filed for divorce and been granted a restraining order. The judge in the lawsuit ruled in favor of the tabloid, saying the tabloid's (and, by extension, Heard's) allegations were "substantially true", with twelve of fourteen instances used by the defense meeting the civil standard for domestic violence. Supposedly, WB had done its own investigation into the situation that came to a similar conclusion as the court case and had just been waiting for some sort of legally binding ruling to cut him loose.note A case in the US directly against Heard, in which Depp alleges that he had been defamed and that damages have occurred as a result of an op-ed that Heard had posted in the Washington Post in 2018, had its trial by jury commence in April 2022 (Same month as the film's release). Danish actor Mads Mikkelsen was very quickly cast to take over the role. Depp later won a defamation suit against Heard had better luck in 2022.the trial in the US but an inconsistent ruling by jury note They found she defamed him with the allegations but also she was defamed herself by his lawyer when he called her allegations a hoax on top of serious questions about the fairness and venue of the Commonwealth of Virginia for the trial did little more than kicked it up to the appeals level.
queenhippolytas
accuses the verdict of being inconsistent, despite the fact that due to the trial being a suit/countersuit it's perfectly possible both parties could be defamers. This also ignores the context behind Amber's win, Depp's former attorney made a highly specific allegation that was hard to prove.
open Omega Character Page Western Animation
I would like to argue against the inclusion of Ambiguous Gender Identity on the official character page for Omega of The Bad Batch. Throughout the entire show she has been presented as female and identified as such by other characters. She was identified as female in the very first episode by Tech who specifically said that he was looking at her DNA. In the episode "Bounty Lost" Tech explains that she has unaltered Jango DNA. Tech referred to the alterations in question as rapid aging, and increased obediance. Furthermore this trope implies that Omega herself is unsure what her gender is, when she has been presenting herself as female throughout the entire show. She did not correct Cad Bane when he referred to her as "little lady" nor did she do it to anyone else that referred to her as a girl. The point here is that there is no ambiguity that Omega sees herself as female regardless if she was born that way or not. There is absolutely no problem with fan interpretations of her as transgender but it should be delegated to the YMMV page.
openA note encouraging use of zero context examples
Spotted this note on Close on Title —
Looks like it was added back in 2015 by someone who was not a mod. Since this obviously flies in the face of Zero-Context Example, would it be cool if I removed it?
openDisagreement over rerailment
So lately, user Bowbowis and I have been in disagreement over Sonic Forces. He adds the following:
- Character Rerailment:
- Knuckles is a Reasonable Authority Figure as the leader of the Resistance, restoring some of his dignity after years of Badass Decay and Flanderization. Even when his plan to assault the capital city literally goes sideways, it's because of an unprecedented display of power from Infinite, rather than genuine stupidity on Knuckles' part. The "guardian of the Master Emerald" thing is still ignored though.
- Forces returns Shadow to the levelheaded and heroic (if not always friendly) personality he had in Heroes and '06, in contrast previous Sonic media of the 2010s, where he's portrayed as more of a petty thug.
I've disagreed with these statements for a while now, because Character Rerailment, as I understand it, refers to when a character returns to their original characterization, not to any form of dignity. In the case of Knuckles, he was never a team leader, much less the leader of an army; if anything, this example is just further Character Derailment, as it feels a different character was written with Knuckles's face and name.
Just because he is taken "seriously" (despite the fact he commits one stupid mistake because he planned the operation in a minute and a half) is just further derailment to me. Heck, the entry itself aknowledges that the "guardian of the Master Emerald" thing is ignored. despite being core of Knuckles character, with him being a treasure hunter the second core.
Likewise, the only form of rerailment involving Shadow is his interpretation in a racing game from 2010 where he was a petty thug, and even then he returned to his established characterization by the next main line game (Generations). This entry also adds a different incarnation of Shadow that has no place in here. This would be like saying the PS 4 Spider-man is Character Rerailment compared with the MCU Spider-man; a false equivalent. So Shadow is shoehorned in this entry because of a AU spin-off.
I cut these entries off with my judgement (and I'll admit I was a bit rude, mostly calling the 2010 game "stupid") twice, and it has been re-added twice.
I cut another entry involving Amy, mostly because someone has been adding the same entry every time she appears, pretending she still has her Sonic Battle characterization. So far, no one has brought it up again.
Edited by TomodachiopenQuestionable Entry
On Breast Expansion, in the Web Originals tab, there's an entire section for the Breast Expansion Archive, which is... almost certainly a fetish website. I'm a bit unsure of whether or not to remove the entry because some of the stories do seem to be more than just the fetish (one of them even has its own page), but on the other hand, it feels a bit weird to have a huge entry be solely from a fetish site with only one story having its own page. What do you guys think?
Edit: The stories themselves are listed as separate sub-entries, so it appears to be listing the stories as the actual entries, not the site itself.
Edited by idonom

Every single hard C on Krazy Kat is replaced with a K, so you get stuff like "klassik newspaper komics" in the opening paragraph. This may work as a brief gag, or as a Self-Demonstrating subpage, but is it really necessary to use it on the entire page, along with the subpages? It makes the text hard to read.