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Ask the Tropers:
openQuestion about an edit Anime
About seven years ago the troper Seguir made a sweeping edit
to the Tearjerker page
for Death Note, removing a number of entries with the edit reason saying "removing apologism for murderers and melodrama" with no further explanation given. I don't see how a lot of the removed entries (such as Hatori's death or Light's amnesiac self screaming when he regains his memories) fit this description so I'm wondering if anyone feels they should be restored.
open"Non-visual" webcomic? Webcomic
So, Webcomic.Bill Nye The Russian Spy is a page.
And it describes itself as a "non-visual" webcomic and the only link is to the text-based Archive of Our Own.
I assume we don't allow fanfics to be in the webcomic namespace if someone calls it a "non-visual webcomic" so I would just move it to fanfic... but honestly, the page is created and maintained by a vandal and troll
so I don't know if that's even valid. Their edits are generally so uniformly detached from reality that I can't in good conscience make a page for this work using their words, and I'm not going to read the fic just to make the move and ensure that their edits are accurate.
Thoughts?
openPoor punctuation
KiraKiwi410 has a habit of putting spaces before punctuation on wiki pages. Examples can be found here
, here
, and here
. I've taken it upon myself to clean up after them, but they keep doing it. Strangely, they use good punctuation sometimes. I wonder if they're doing it on purpose, it's just a compulsive habit, or they're editing on mobile, as that can sometimes mess up punctuation.
Edit: They've done it again
resolved I'm not sure if Visions of Mana counts as an example of Screwed by the Network...
I saw someone added the trivia to the game
in light of the studio that developed it getting shut down upon release. From my understanding, SbtN is for works that have been negatively affected as a result of Executive Meddling and such. Thus, Visions can only work as an example if Studio Ouka's closing will have a direct negative impact on its sales, marketing, etc. which is too early to tell. Because as far as everyone knows at this point, the game itself has been completed and polished before the studio's closure. Is there a more appropriate trivia for this? I don't think Creator Killer works either, because from the information gathered, the reason NetEase closed Studio Ouka had no direct connection to the game, just another corporate cost cutting measure.
EDIT: Someone else deleted the entry shortly after I brought the subject here, citing no confirmation. That said, everything seems to point towards a forthcoming closure as noted by reports
.
openPossibly racist part of Hollywood Cuisine?
Here's the part I'm talking about:
- Indian: Tends to be so spicy it burns a hole in the diner's guts (somewhat Truth in Television).
It's the part in parentheses that I'm not sure about; claiming that it's true that Indian food "burns a hole in the diner's guts" doesn't sit well with me. That said, I'm not Indian myself, and I'm aware that the whole trope is about stereotypes.
openQuestionable Deletions
Troper/Eggyolks deleted examples from Ed, Edd n Eddy and HBO Storybook Musicals. The examples deleted were everything under Accidental Innuendo and Self-Fanservice on the Ed, Edd, N' Eddy page, and Evil Is Sexy on both pages. They also removed a line referring to Double D as a Chick Magnet.
The edits to the Ed, Edd, N' Eddy page have been reverted.
My concern is the possibility the nature of the tropes had anything to do with their removal by the troper in question.
Sorry to bother you if this is nothing important.
Edited by fraggleloveropenI need help cleaning up these mess (SCP Foundation characters sheet) Web Original
Just to make it clear how bad it is, this is from Characters.SCP Foundation SC Ps 5000 To 5999
- And Then John Was a Zombie: In SCP-5000, The Foundation itself is the Monster of the Week.
- Alternate Universe: The SCP comes from either this, a previous iteration of the universe or the past before it was changed via Reset Button. In any case, the Foundation found no ties between the SCP and their still-living version of the employee that died inside the suit.
- Always Chaotic Evil: The cured Foundation personnel are unable to feel pain or sympathy and are nearly emotionless. The hidden dialogue hints that this is the natural state of the human race.
- Apocalyptic Log: The majority of the article features one, with data logs being the only thing still functioning from the SCP, that detail a Foundation employee's cross country trek in a world where the SCP Foundation declared war on humanity.
- Bittersweet Ending: Despite near-impossible odds, Pietro manages to reset the timeline at the cost of his own life. But since it's never revealed what the secret that caused the Foundation's Face–Heel Turn was there's no way to tell if it will happen again.
- Also since the Eldritch Abomination inside humanity's collective unconsciousness hasn't been stopped it's still able to continue its unknown goals. At least in the new timeline humanity may have a chance of stopping it without resorting to genocide as now they know what happened last time.
- Blue-and-Orange Morality: The SCP Foundation believe that the extermination of humanity is the right thing to do. Scant references imply that it's thanks to a discovery that humanity itself is abhorrent and anomalous. And if the revelation that a foreign entity gave emotions to humanity's collective unconscious in the past is correct, then humans as a whole are originally inclined to this kind of morality before the entity stepped in.
- Body Horror: Pietro tries to bury the corpse of a young boy, only for hundreds of worms with the child's face to burst out of it.
- Brown Note: Whatever the Foundation learned that made them declare war on humanity, it's something very dangerous for the uninitiated to learn. When an interrogated MTF member revealed it to his interrogators, it caused them to essentially be put in a state of perpetual screaming.
- Call-Back: To 2998. "Can't fit round pegs in square holes", can you?
- Clingy Costume: Pietro is forced to wear SCP-5000 throughout his entire trip. Not because he can't remove it but because it is keeping him as The Needless and invisible for his walk across the country in a world where humanity is getting systematically exterminated.
- Conditioned to Accept Horror: As his on-foot trek continues Pietro becomes more and more desensitized to the constant genocide happening around him. This doesn't help his self-image.
- Continuity Cavalcade: Over a dozen different SCPs get referenced in this article, mostly with reports explaining how the Foundation is unleashing them on humanity for maximum casualties. In addition, Pietro's goal, though he can't remember it, is putting SCP-055 in contact with SCP-579, the "square peg in round hole" scenario a couple of other articles reference.
- Curb-Stomp Battle: While the Foundation are eventually defeated by Pietro reseting the timelime their attack on humanity is an absolute slaughter. They easily destroy entire cities overnight, crush the GOC and Church of the Broken God's alliance and force the Serpent's Hand to abandon the universe.
- Death by Irony: Not literal death but the Foundation has their apocalypse reversed just like they had previously used a Reset Button to overwrite the apocalypses caused by all the other world-ending horrors.
- Eldritch Abomination: Late in his travels, Pietro comes across several Foundation soldiers fighting against a weird entity that resembles a human stretched across the sky. It is assumed to be the the foreign entity that invaded humanity's collective unconscious in the past and gave emotions to humanity as a whole for unknown reasons, and since the humanity that it controls is dying, it attempts to materialize itself to defeat the Foundation and to (perhaps ironically) defend the humanity that it controls at the time.
- Enemy Mine: The Global Occult Coalition and The Church of the Broken God are normally hated by the Foundation, but neither wanted humanity to be wiped out and occasionally cooperated as the biggest forces opposing the corrupted Foundation. Ultimately, it wasn't enough, with the GOC being wiped out and the Church crippled.
- The Extremist Was Right: After discovering a horrible secret regarding the truth behind humanity's collective unconscious, the Foundation ends up agreeing with SCP-682 that there is something inherently wrong with humanity...and deciding that eradicating humanity is the only logical step to spare them from this fate.
- Face–Heel Turn: The Foundation as a whole undergoes one of these after discovering something horrible.
- Feel No Pain: While conducting purges of uncorrupted SCP soldiers, the Foundation would test them by stabbing them. Most had no reaction, while those who did were promptly killed.
- One Foundation scientist claims that humanity as a whole is not supposed to feel pain.
- Foreshadowing: This line from the interrogated MTF member might seem nothing at first glance but it hints at what the Foundation of SCP-5000's universe learned. It is the same line SCP-682 expresses when talking about humanity
Samuel Ross: …disgusting.
- Heroic Sacrifice: Pietro manages to create a Reality-Breaking Paradox that restores the world, but in order to do so he has to jump into the pit containing SCP-579, dying on impact with the ground.
- Hoist by His Own Petard: Three of these occur. The Foundation, which was created to protect humanity from world-destroying horrors, end up exterminating the human race. But then Pietro combines SCP-055 and SCP-579 to create a Reset Button that restores the world just as the Foundation had previously used the same method to stop an Alien Invasion. Even better, in order to do it Pietro needed the aid of an advanced armour suit the Foundation itself had created.
- Living Statue: Eventually Pietro starts finding statues of SCP soldiers except they have blades for hands, a permanent grimace on their face, and ability like SCP-173. They turn out to be frighteningly effective in killing people too.
- Oh, Crap!: Pietro could only utter a "Fuck me" when the Foundation released a global message revealing their existence and their intent to exterminate mankind.
- The Purge: The first people the Foundation killed were those of its own membership that had not been hit by whatever "cured" them.
- Reset Button: As in SCP-2998, combining SCP-055 with SCP-579 accomplishes this.
- The Reveal: Hidden text in the last image implies that what the Foundation learned to make them want to exterminate humanity made them essentially see humanity the same way SCP-682 sees humanity.
- It gets better! The hidden dialogue in the blank space between the final journal entry and the footnotes and the hidden implications in the article depicts that in the past, a foreign entity entered humanity's collective unconscious and gave humanity the ability to feel emotions like empathy...emotions which humans aren't supposed to be able to experience at all.
- "Shaggy Dog" Story: Unfortunately even though Pietro eventually reached his goal humanity was essentially exterminated by this point, he is left with no answers, and he could only make SCP-055 come into contact with SCP-579 by dropping from a fatal height, causing him to die before his remains were transported to the main SCP universe.
- Luckily reading SCP-2998 makes it more of a Bittersweet Ending. It's implied that Pietro really did reset the timeline to save humanity.
- ...but then potentially Double Subverted when one realizes that, thanks to this timeline reset, whatever entity the alternate Foundation found within the collective unconscious and was trying to fight by exterminating humanity is still out there, and now there's nothing stopping it from pursuing whatever its goals are in granting humanity empathy. Though since the Foundation has SCP-5000 now they may be able to rediscover it.
- Technically Living Zombie: The "cured" Foundation members are still alive, but feel no pain or fear and refer to those who do as "live ones". It's implied that they sacrificed some core element of their humanity itself thanks to discovering it to be unnatural and repulsive since it is assumed that humans originally do not have emotions at all (or at least not certain ones such as empathy).
- Was Once a Man: The Foundation as a whole. They still look human but definitely aren't. Even the personifications of Death can't recognize them as humans anymore.
- You Have Outlived Your Usefulness: The first thing the newly insane Foundation does is execute most of its staff with gunfire.
Obvious mistake like bad Administrivia.Example Indentation In Trope Lists and ZCE aside, I think the problem is how this is more like a work's trope page despite being in a character sheet (even the header named after the article, not a character or faction or something). And as such it troping several characters at once (mostly Pietro Wilson and the altered Foundation, despite how they don't work together), and include plot/narrative tropes. Seriously, if it has proper summary I would just move this to its own work page. But no, all it has is link to article and trope list.
This isn't just one case (please check the page's history, as well as other character sheets'), sometime they're bad enough that the folder say one name but all tropes belong to a completely different character or the writing gimmick of the article. And as a wiki, you can bet that this kind of thing will keep coming.
Edited by KuruniopenToo soon to call?
Digimon Adventure: Last Evolution Kizuna:
- Retcon: There was never any indication in any of the previous installments in the Adventure continuity that suggests only kids can be DigiDestined and have to part ways with their partners as they grow up. While this is somewhat justified in that the only ones ever seen were kids themselves, it still goes against how Maki Himekawa was considered one despite being a young adult, and that the 02 Epilogue depicted all of the DigiDestined as adults and still with their partners.
- What Happened to the Mouse?: The promotional material has so far made little mention of anything directly related to tri. outside of taking place after a five-year timeskip. As such its still unknown where Meiko is in all this, and what happened to Maki Himekawa, Alphamon, the Mysterious Man, and Jesmon after the former two just vanished in Coexistence, the Mysterious Man went to claim Diablomon and Demon's data, and Jesmon vanished in Our Future.
- Author's Saving Throw: After the infamous treatment of the Digimon Adventure 02 cast in tri., this movie puts them in a far more active and helpful role. The very first trailer even focuses on them specifically.
- Family-Unfriendly Aesop: The reasoning behind why the Digimon partners have to leave upon the humans growing up, which is the loss of idealism and potential to shape the future is seen to imply this for some.
- It enforces a message of Growing Up Sucks, which is more likely to make people be more fearful of their incoming adulthood despite it taking majority of their lives therefore ensuring that they will have a crappy adult life.
- It also means that as adults, you will be nothing more than cogs in a machine and be unable to bring change to the world. Despite the fact unless you are one of the exceptions, you need to be an adult to actually realize your childhood dreams. Leaving them stuck in your head isn't exactly better. That's how progress as a whole is made in the first place.
- It's essentially saying that Digimon and what you liked in your youth as a whole can only be best enjoyed by their corresponding age group. Just the act of liking it makes you a Manchild.
The first two should wait as it might be explained in work. Author's Saving Throw I'd be inclined to cut as they Might be Advertised Extras (thought on formalizing a AST ban on pre-release?). Family-Unfriendly Aesop sounds way to soon to judge and like the complaint there's a cleanup thread on the trope over. Cut?
openContrasting Spelling and pronouncing
I was watching the official release of Beastars on Netflix, and one of the character's name is spell Rouis but is pronounced Louis. The page itself use Louis but should it be changed to Rouis despite how its pronounced?
Edited by WhirlRXopenNot Really Memes? Videogame
Reposting my question here because I have the Discussion page isn't trafficked all that frequently enough to get a prompt response.
Marikusu recently made a bunch of additions
to Fire Emblem: Three Houses that I feel violate the nature of what constitutes a meme, because they seem to be expressly partisan polemics that just happen to be delivered in a cheeky/sarcastic way, rather than the kind innately self-perpetuating humor that usually constitutes a meme. Plus there isn't any meaning to them beyond the face value statements themselves. Also, memes are generally supposed to have broad appeal because of their self-perpetuating nature, hence being about a matter this controversial already limits their ability to appeal to a wide audience.
In the past we've already had to carry out major repair on the YMMV entry for Edelgard under Base-Breaking Character because it was getting too full of these polemics both for and against her, so needless to say anything regarding the grayness surrounding her morality is enough of a delicate matter that the additions are in violation of Rule of Cautious Editing Judgement. Not to mention there was a fair amount of discussion in the game thread that found the fascist label to be inaccurate (the Memes entry admits as much, but goes on to add it anyway with a handwave) and a case of Ron the Death Eater, as while she's certainly a lot of things that aren't exactly good, fascist expressly is not one of them.
Edit: I see that Marikusu nuked
a YMMV entry that explicitly explains how Fascist Edelgard came to become a Discredited Meme to the point a voice actor got involved; whether or not it still sees use in some remaining circles, I do think that treating it as a contemporary meme of worth after that incident definitely comes off as in bad taste, especially since as someone with friends who are fans of all three of the various house lords, the ones who express a liking for Edelgard are the ones who receive the brunt of harassment and personal attacks due to the way modern fandoms behave.
openCharacter Derailment?
Questions about these Character Derailment examples.
- Total Drama All-Stars Rewrite does this to Cody due to the authors having an immense hatred for the character. In canon, Cody was indeed a perverted dweeb with hopeless delusions of being a cool ladies man, but despite that, he was also a nice and friendly person who was very much capable of being respectful and gentlemanly when he wanted his beloved to be happy (as was the case when Gwen hooked up with Trent, which he actually helped with making happen). In this story, he has none of his redeeming qualities and is instead depicted as a dirty liar and a selfish Jerkass whose aforementioned I Want My Beloved to Be Happy moment was secretly a shallow attempt by him to make Gwen like him even more.
If it's a rewrite, that's Adaptation Personality Change. And how is Derailment different than Ron the Death Eater here?
- Along with mass Flanderization, Seasons 4-9 of SpongeBob SquarePants were hit by this very hard, until Stephen Hillenburg's return to the show:
- Patrick got progressively dumber as the series went on. He goes from average intelligence in the first season to The Ditz in season 2 and 3 to virtually brain-dead in season 4 and onwards. He also became more of a Jerkass on occasion.
- Mr. Krabs goes from greedy and selfish, but still good, to a Jerkass with little to no good qualities who often puts others and himself in danger just to get some cash, and even tortured Plankton until he tried to commit suicide. It doesn't help that he gets away with most of his crimes.
- In the first three seasons, Sandy is a daredevil who is skilled in a variety of sports, including skiing, karate and weightlifting. Then in season 4 she suddenly became a scientist, and much of her characterization and humor started to revolve around her intellect and inventions.
I belive Flanderization is exempt from this trope as it is a gradual change based on existing traits as opposed abrupt and inexplicable. The last part about Mr. Krabs is irrelevant and shows it more about complaining than this trope.
- In My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic, Twilight Sparkle is a kind, moral and intelligent individual who is protective of her friends, to the point where she was willing to hand over godlike power to a malevolent demon so he'd let them go. In the IDW My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic comic, she's possessed of an extremely arbitrary and obstructive morality that she'd do things like not intervene when her friends were getting assaulted, or not intervene when a bunch of thugs were terrorizing a town, or scold her friends when they tear up a legal document that the aforementioned thugs were using to acquire a piece of property despite their blatant campaign of terror against the townsfolk that should get them laughed out of court, or concocting a plan that involves them kidnapping and impersonating the notary to commit fraud so she would have an excuse to use her magic.
- Iron Will during the "Siege of the Crystal Empire" arc. In the show, and previous IDW comic he appeared in, he's a pretty nice guy who left both times on good terms with the mane six and was generally a nice guy, if a tad aggressive. Here he's part of a Legion of Doom dedicated to helping resurrect King Sombra. Even assuming he was unaware of the King Sombra part, other members of the team up include the Changelings and Queen Chrysalis (enemies of state who have tried several times to destroy Equestria), and the plan involves him stealing the Crystal Heart needed to protect the Empire and keep it safe from harm. He does so proudly and openly enjoys doing so.
I'm inclined to agree, but these aren't unexplained (Twilight has the never before mention law against acting, Iron Will wanted to be feared to regain his reputation as an assertiveness teacher). The explanations are poor, contrived, unpopular, and inconsistent with everything else, but it tried to explain it. Since derailment is about unexplained changes insufficiently explained changes seems too subjective and better moved to Fan-Disliked Explanation.
- Twilight Sparkle and the Crystal Heart Spell derails Trixie in great length. Word of God claims the book is canon to the My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic continuity after the season 3 final. However her portayal is rather jarring. In season 1, Trixie was a pretentious magician boasting that she's the greatest magician in all Equestria. At the end she has to flee Ponyville when her exploits are revealed to be made up. It's noteworthy to mention she was also a controversial example of Designated Villain and Unintentionally Sympathetic since many viewers feel like she did nothing wrong before Rainbow Dash started booing to her performance. She comes back in season 3 as an antagonist, we learned that after the event in season one, she became a laughingstock and was unable to go anywhere with her magic show without being laughed out of town. She goes back to Ponyville with a powerful artifact to seek revenge on Twilight. At the very end Trixie realizes her faults and makes peace with Twilight Sparkle. Comes this book, Trixie is again resentful toward Twilight, is described as a bully and teams up with Gilda to replace Applejack's cider with gloopy green gunk for the sake of it.
This would be an example, except it is consistent with her next portrayal on the show of still being a rival with Twilight Sparkle having similarly ignored her realization there, even making ignoring Aesops part of her character. That she had learned it then was speculation that was Jossed. What do we do in the case where "derailments" turn out to be Accidentally Correct Writing.
I'd say Character Derailment could use a cleanup. But since it's Flame Bait, why do we even allow examples when no other Flame Bait page does? I think they were added before we disallowed Flame Bait examples.
Edited by Ferot_DreadnaughtopenUh... Two things Videogame
On the Pyramid Head section on Silent Hill
, The Anti-Villain section has a point of "He's still plenty hostile towards him, though, and if one is to follow the interpretation of him found here, he's certainly malicious as well." This reads like 'this theory is canon', which is generally looked down upon, and I still want to remove the intrerpretation bit since it feel like it doesn't belong. Should I remove? I'm not sure that he's totally malicious, since he's a manifestation of James' guilt and sense for justice and guides him along throughout the game, this is even furthered at how you can just ignore PH on his boss fights for a few minutes then he leaves or kill himself.
On the Humans are White section on Frost Punk
: "Not only is every human in the game white, but almost all of them are British. The only exceptions are the handful of Americans who survived the fall of Tesla City and the Norwegian Fridtjof Nansen. Perhaps justified because all but one of the Generators was built by the British Empire, which in real life was quite racist and willing to sacrifice its non-white subjects when expedient. " The bolded section isn't about the game, like it's trying to bring up sensitive subjects just because. Should I remove?
openDisgust Tropes definition and misuse
So, Disgust Tropes is meant to be about the emotion, but people are adding tropes like Bird-Poop Gag and Urine Trouble that are gross, but not to do with the emotion itself. Some do involve reactions from the characters, but it's not necessary. I know I could Always Edit It Myself, but it seems like a substantial problem.
openPro Wrestler Bashing
One issue I've been coming across a lot lately on pro wrestling pages are tropes and YMMV entries speaking negatively about the wrestler's personal lives rather than professional lives, which I know is not normally allowed on here. For example: the Alternative Character Interpretation on the YMMV pages for Shawn Michaels and Diamond Dallas Page are aimed at the person, not their characters. TLDR: It says that Michaels' Born-Again Christianity is an act and that DDP is a scam artist: For the full version:
- "After Shawn Michaels became a born again Christian in the early 2000s and had his second run, there's always been the nagging question of just how truly changed of a man he's become. Many think he's truly changed for the better and is no longer the Jerkass that he used to be in the 90s. However, others still think Shawn is still the same old prick he's always been but now he just manages to hide it better with religion. There have been many peers in the 2000s like Chris Jericho who say that HBK was a changed man after accepting God. Still, there have been some dissenting voices like Gregory Helms and Jim Cornette who believe that Shawn's just a fake with his "Born Again" attitude and if this interview given by Rob Van Dam
is anything to go by, Shawn can at the very least still be a bit of a jerk, albeit one who's a bit more backhanded and passive-aggressive than in the past. While there is a general consensus that he was a great wrestler in his 2000s run, that consensus becomes a bit more divided when people go into interpretations about how changed of a man he was in that era.
- A good example of the alternate interpretation would his ridiculous overselling in the match against Hulk Hogan at SummerSlam 2005. Many smarks applaud Michaels for standing up to the most hated politician in wrestling for supposedly refusing to put over him in a rematch. Had this been any other wrestler besides Hogan, they'd be calling Michaels a selfish, unprofessional ass for refusing to make his opponent look good. And indeed, Michaels would have gotten a phenomenal match out of the aging Hulkster had he not spent the match flopping around like a fish on meth. To turn an ultimate dream match into a comedy-fest out of spite for Hogan is not exactly admirable behavior, regardless of what Hogan may or may not have done to deserve it."
- "Page presented himself as a hard-working everyman who made good. He uses this persona in his DDP Yoga presentations. He put a lot of work in turning the lives of Jake Roberts and Scott Hall around no doubt; helping them towards addiction recovery and adopting a more healthy lifestyle. Roberts and Hall have both said that they're only alive because of DDP. However, a skeptic might point out that he conspicuously had cameras around to document these magnanimous acts to deliberately use them as marketing tools. DDP did definitely come from a humble background and work hard to get where he is; but he is also a very shrewd businessman and marketing mind. Those who knew him during his wrestling career have noted this when speaking about him in later years. Page and Eric Bischoff were former neighbors and friends (Bischoff even admitted that when he first met Page as a manager in AWA, he found Page to be annoying, obnoxious and more concerned with getting himself over than the guys he managed), and Page did exploit that connection to get some favorable treatment. (He was the first wrestler allowed to stand up to the nWo by Diamond Cutting the Outsiders, for example.) Ric Flair once said on a podcast that Page was a nice guy, but that he was a "smooth operator" who had a talent for getting himself over, "...and making you think it was your idea".
I'll admit that I contributed to these entrys (I didn't write them entirely, but the part about the Hogan scenario on Michaels and the Bischoff part on Page was my doing) but I've had a bit of a Heel Realization and was planning to delete them altogether, but they might be added back.
Further examples of this are the Broken Pedestal entry on Hulk Hogan's YMMV page (and Broken Pedestal isn't even an Audience Reaction:
- "He became this however to professional wrestlers and some fans after the aformented racism scandal. His reinstatement as of 2018 did not help things either, as his apology during his meeting with WWE's enployees was tainted with insincerity (basically he apologized that he got caught). Only time will tell if he is to become a Repaired Pedestal or remain broken."
And this Jerkass entry on Kevin Nash's page that is obviously calling Kevin Nash the person a Jerkass:
- "Pretty much a requirement to be part of the Kliq. He's a lazy, selfish, greedy, bullying creep who cares only about himself and his friends and shows no concern for the damage he does to whatever promotion he is in at the time."
So yeah, I think pro wrestling pages need a lot more monitoring. I'd do it myself, but I'm trying to distance myself from it because I feel I've sort of outgrown it. I get that the lines between reality and fiction in the wrestling world isn't as cut and dry as it is in other media—primarily because for so many years wrestlers lived their gimmicks and even today tend to fully live by the Do Not Call Me "Paul" trope. Either way, this stuff doesn't belong on these pages in my opinion.
openPage with no existing work Literature
While clicking the Random Media button, I came across the page for Linda. The page has four examples on it, and the description of the work claims that it's a short story hosted on a Google Document. Clicking on the provided link shows that the Document was deleted at some point, and I can't find any other copy of it online. There's no linked account for the author, the history for the page doesn't show who made it in the first place, and only five tropers (including myself at one point last year, to my surprise) have edited the page over the past 8 years.
I would like to ask what's the best course of action for a page like this. Do you cut the whole page, or do you toss it into the Unpublished Works section?
Courtesy link: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Literature.Linda
openAudience sympathy on Granbelm
Troper Hikaru Hyouishi wrote some lengthy arguments for Unintentionally Sympathetic and Unintentionally Sympathetic about Anna and Shingetsu in the YMMV of Granbelm.
Spoiler alert for anyone who hasn't watched the show.
- Unintentionally Sympathetic: ANNA, dear lord. While she is one of the major antagonists of the series, thanks to her backstory during episode 6, many fans ended up siding with her due to Shingetsu (one of the protagonists) and her own mother keeping the truth about her lack of power from her for years. While The Stinger at the end of the episode showed that not only did she attempt to murder her own mother, but that she stole her family's crystal to do nothing more than to torture Shingetsu until she saw fit, her sympathy shot through the roof in the very next episode thanks to Shingetsu's utter lack of understanding that not only was her complaining about how she didn't like being a mage and wanting to get rid of the magic to save Anna from the burden of expectations basically crushing the latter's dreams of being The Witch because she personally didn't like it (while being ignorant of the fact that Anna actually wanted to be that powerful for her family's sake), but her "help" in getting Anna to stop fighting in the GRANBELM and remind her that her family still loves her was basically throwing the great difference between their strengths in Anna's face (which was one of the major reasons for Anna's hatred towards Shingetsu in the first place), as shown by the fact that during their final battle, she deliberately stalled the final blow twice before finishing Anna off with the third one. Because of these reasons, Shingetsu ended up coming off as not only hypocritical of why she wanted to help Anna but also ignorant of how her selfish actions ended up tearing Anna's once loving family apart. That ended up leading her to be...
- Unintentionally Unsympathetic: While Shingetsu's burden of having high expectations due to her potentially high magic is understandably rough and that getting rid of said magic because of the potentially dangerous misuse that anyone can do with it is also an understandable goal to have, what started to put fans against her was the fact that she basically kick-started Anna's spiral to the mess she is today by secretly helping her perform a technique that her mother and grandmother couldn't do out of good intentions...which led to Anna believing that she was more powerful than she was. That ended up making Anna's own mother and Shingetsu telling her that she could never beat the latter without telling her why out of their love for her, making Anna think that they valued Shingetsu more than her. This went on for about a decade before the truth was finally spoken...with nearly disastrous results During the battle between her and Anna in the next episode, we're shown that she does feel remorse for her actions and that she wants to make amends, but what rallied fans against her even more was that for all that she said about loving Anna and not wanting to put any burdens on her, it was her utter lack of understanding that for all her complaints about her magic, she never really understood that what she had was all that Anna had ever wanted, and to see that in the process of being thrown away forever because she personally didn't like it felt like a slap to Anna's entire reason for living. It really didn't help that her method of getting Anna to back out of the GRANBELM and realize that there was more to life than being a mage was to throw the huge differences between their strengths in her face.
While I admit Hikaru does make some arguments, these entries look a bit too long to be taken seriously and come across as a bit biased. I'd like to remind everyone here that TV Tropes is not an echo chamber people can use to say whatever you want and not expect any consequences. I do believe there is a time, a place and a way to express those feelings, but this is not one of them.
Edited by MasterHeroopen Rules regarding fake links
What I'm referring to is the (ab)use of the [[url]] system (or an equivalent like Google's hyperlinks, or Steam's [url]HTML Tags[/url]) to make one link lead to another as a form of trolling. As an example, https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/JustForFun/Rickroll
appears to link to JustForFun.Rickroll, but instead leads to the video itself.note Even though it's quite obvious that a sane troper would use the WikiWords on their own, which renders as Rickroll. Not to mention that the "preview" in the lower-left invariably shows the real link regardless. A more extreme example is where you're at work, on your work computer, when a coworker sends you an email saying that they need help with a contract they've put on Google Docs. The link appears legit, but when you click on it, it instead leads to a XXX dark-web porn-site that usually sets off the trackers in the wi-fi. Worst case scenario, you get fired, while the trollish coworker gets away scot free.
What I want to know are the policies regarding stuff like this, just out of curiosity.
Edited by GofastmikeopenTempting Fate: Weird subtropes
Tempting Fate has a huge list of subtropes. Which isn't a problem in of itself.
The problem is that a lot of them... aren't subtropes? Some of them are, but a lot of them are examples of how one can tempt fate and saying the trope that they're tempting.
For example, the very first "subtrope":
- "At least it isn't raining." — Cue the Rain. Alternatively, a worse type of weather will occur instead.
Cue the Rain isn't a subtrope of Tempting Fate. A character doesn't have to do or say anything for Cue the Rain to happen, it's just "the weather turns to emphasize an already bad situation." You can tempt fate in a Cue the Rain situation, but it's not a subtrope, just one that can overlap.
A lot of the "subtropes" are like that.
Even if they're valid subtropes, it's not useful as an index because they're ordered by the Stock Phrase that's tempting fate rather than the trope itself, and sometimes the trope is potholed so it's not even visible.
Sorta tempted to just move the whole thing to Analysis.Tempting Fate.
Edited by LarkmarnopenNever My Fault edit war
On this
recap page for an episode of Bojack Horseman, there's an edit war for a Never My Fault entry. For context, one episode of the series has Bojack hanging out with some teenagers on their prom night. He gives them alcohol, but when one gets alcohol poisoning, he convinces her boyfriend not to tell where the alcohol came from and left them by themselves. In the latest season, the boyfriend, Pete, returns again and recounts the story to Bojack's sister, Hollyhock.
A Never My Fault entry was originally added, stating that Pete put the blame solely on Bojack despite the fact that Pete gladly encouraged them drinking. Ben Beasted removed it with the edit reason "Just because they were already drinking doesn't absolve Bo Jack of responsibility. He wen out of his way to get harder alcohol and left both of them behind at the hospital." Chubzac, the original poster, re-added it with the edit reason, "Just because Bojack holds some responsibility doesn't mean Pete and Maddie aren't also at fault. They were already drinking before Bojack met them and willingly chose to drink the alcohol Bojack bought them. Pete is twisting facts about Bojack forcing them to drink Bourbon against their will."
Personally I think this is more a YMMV response of Pete being portrayed as faultless, since the episode itself doesn't seem to point any blame on him. This reception happened before when Diane accused Bojack of taking advantage of Sarah Lynn. It's under Unintentionally Unsympathetic for the episode, for the record. In any case, should they be alerted for edit-warring?

What to do if a work's description or intro paragraph claims that it's similar to one or more works that are more well-known in pop culture, but such claims are questionable or dubious?
For example, the intro paragraph of Bloody Spell begins with this, which was originally written by other troper(s):
Bloody Spell, a.k.a 嗜血印, is a wuxia-themed action game developed by Yilong Games, one based on Wide-Open Sandbox Action RPG games made popular in recent years, with Elden Ring, Dark Souls and Bayonetta as it's most distinct inspiration... except recycled in the Ming Dynasty.
This sounds like cases of X Meets Y and Recycled In Space examples, but some of the comparisons sound like they're stretching it. Specifically, it's rather odd for the description to say it's "Dark Souls", but then lists a game comparison (Bayonetta) that is not based on Dark Souls. There are several reasons why I'm questioning the game's intro having to compare itself to several other games:
I'm really thinking of either deleting the paragraphs or sentences that compare it to other games, or at best, trim or rewrite them instead and just leave fewer comparisons... But I also want to ask if there's an existing clean-up thread for these kinds of things, like a "Comparison Clean-Up Thread" or something.
Alternatively, is there an existing Administrivia guideline that says comparisons between works should be placed somewhere else (like Follow the Leader and Spiritual Successor on the Trivia or YMMV pages) instead of the main work page's intro paragraph?
Heck, I could've sworn there was a similar topic back then, as when Black Myth: Wukong was released, there was a huge online discourse/debate on whether it's a Soulsborne or just a traditional action game like God of War. The Discussion tab