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resolved Question about Zalgo as used in the title of a video
As has been established, the use of Zalgo text is not allowed on the wiki. However, over on YMMV.Si Iva Gunner, I noticed it being used in an entry concerning a video by Siiva. Thing is, AFAIK Zalgo text was what was originally used in the video title, prior to it being renamed — the text is just quoting the video.
With that in mind, is Zalgo OK to use if it's in the original title of a work, or no? And if so, should I retitle the link to match the current title of the video?
Edited by themayorofsimpletonresolved New spammer
New troper milobanana
is spamming various pages with gibberish in a way that reads like a spammer and not just a confused newbie troper:
- i AM REA
- the blue man is here
- And whatever this
is.
resolved Troper with persist ZCE issue
They first come to my attention with this edit
, which they added several empty folders and one pure ZCE (trope without example}.
The next day, they uncommented
several Palette Swap without adding proper context, talking about the origin of enteies instead of explaning why they are examples of the trope (which, I think most are misused considered how different they were in said origins).
The next, they uncommented another ZCE
, with the context relies on other works and not how it is applies to the subject work. Another edit before that one
, they uncommented The Rival while listed several similarities between two characters, but not mentioned the characters rivalry at all.
I sent three notifiers, one for each of these edit.
Today, they added another
, preemptive commented out. Which seems to be their current pattern
.
resolved Neglectful Precursor Trope Quesiton
I noticed that the trope description for Neglectful Precursors is formatted as a court trial. In addition, I also noticed that about 99% of the examples are also written as court cases. Does this trope actually require that examples be written that way? I wanted to ask because I couldn't find anything on the page itself indicating that.
Always open to sharing avatars and chatting. Can message me for either. (He/Him) Currently watching: BTAS (Finished)
resolved Problem with an RP player at Forum Games
So, Blase Son Of A Gun 1988 has a bit of a recurring problem at Our Avatars Are Posting In A Forum Thread
.
- First, he's been godmodding like crazy and his character is basically a Gary Stu/Anti Sue that loves to fight and can beat literally anything. Pretty much his whole character shtick is 'Punches things really hard because he needs to fight something'. This isn't usually a problem except that's all he literally do to the point it gets annoying. We told him to stop and do something else but nada. 'Claidheamh' can also beat a million mooks daily on a regular basis and can rip apart through dimensions. Again, bit of a problem because the whole point of the thread is 'avatars chat with each other', not 'avatars fight Claidheamh and get stomped because he is just that awesome'.
- Second, he has a tendency to bring and stir up dramas, not only in the RP but also at the What Offends Your Avatar About the Above Post
. Yeah the whole point of the thread is obvious but he's been unneccessarily rude sometimes , and with what happened with the previous thread
, we really don't want history to repeat itself here.
Can something be done about him here? This problem has been recurring ever since he started, and it hasn't improved much since.
Edited by Myskywarmresolved Should this deleted YMMV entry be restored? Western Animation
On Arcane's YMMV page, Damian Wayne deleted this "One True Pairing" entry
for the second time in a row even after a previous ATT thread
on this very same topic resolved itself with an overall consensus that it did indeed qualify as an example. This was the initial reason the troper gave for deleting it:
- "OTP indicates a ship that is universally beloved to the point there are no significant alternatives to it. A quick look on any fan site will show that this isn't the case for Ekko/Jinx.Not only does Lightcannon fan works keep getting updated, but most of the work featuring Jinx hardly feature her in a romantic relationship at all."
As what was already noted in the aforementioned ATT thread, the One True Pairing page does not describe a pairing that is "universally beloved" to the point where no alternatives exist. It simply describes a phenomena whenever there is a pairing within a work that is preferred by a group of fans above others, in-which the "Ekko/Jinx" ship qualifies for within the context of Arcane due to the wave of positive reception and fan art seen across social media (general critic and audience reactions, YouTube, Twitter, Tiktok, Reddit, etc.) after the debut of Season 2's final batch of episodes. There is no rule that states the existence of another ship disqualifies an OTP nor is there anything that bars qualification if the pairing also has detractors, which is part of the reason why Ship-to-Ship Combat exists.
I did attempt to message the troper to try and open up a dialogue over the deletion but they never made a reply. After waiting a couple of days, I restored the entry. But as I already mentioned, it was deleted again by the same troper. This was the new reason they gave alongside adding a No Yay entry in place of it:
- "I hope this new entry will finally put an end to this argument"
Out of a desire to avoid an editing war over a ship of all things, I wanted to get some outside opinions on the matter. Should the original OTP entry be restored? Or is there something I'm missing that warrants the example's deletion?
Edited by Killionaireresolved Possible EditWar on Characters/KingdomHeartsEnemyCreatures Videogame
In January 2019, both Phoenixion and Mattman_the_Storyteller deleted tropes that suggested that Commantis is actually a Brainwashed and Crazy spirit. Both gave edit
reasons
that said, basically, that the game itself gave no evidence to this.
In October, Aurawick added
the tropes back with no edit reason.
Personally, I agree with both Phoenixion and Mattman_the_Storyteller. Looking back, there is no evidence in game for the tropes. But since the tropes were added back without a reason, is this an Edit War?
Edited by SailorTardisopenOdd edit reason?
On the Awesome page for Rick & Morty here
, SP Burke added this entry:
- During the time the show was off the air, Rick & Morty received frequent criticism thanks to the toxic fanbase who like to ignore the deeper messages and just want wacky adventures that don't talk about politics. So after finally coming back after a long hiatus, how does the show address that portion of the fans? By calling them a bunch of fascists and telling them to fuck off.
I don't know if this entry is kosher or not, but in any case, concernedalien11780 added the simple line of "among other things" to it.
My concern is not that—it is the HUGE edit reason along with it.
"Most of the toxic fandom controversies relating to Rick and Morty were in relation to either people who use Rick as a reason to act pseudo-intellectual and mean to others, harassing female writers on Twitter, or acting like lines like "Wubba-Lubba-Dub-Dub!" and "Pickle Rick!" are funny without context, and where all three of those might overlap. While certainly not apolitical, Season 3 didn't really have any obvious political satire or moralizing, because despite Dan Harmon and Justin Roiland being ardently liberal, albeit Harmon rather moreso, they don't like to preach very much, at least not within the show itself. Even the instiutionalized racism allegories in S 3 E 07 "Tales From The Citadel" didn't have anything obviously referencing any real-life instances of police brutality or systemic struggles. Perhaps "Fascist Morty" was a way of calling out fans that harp on any liberal politics or bigotry being depicted as negative appearing in the show whatsoever and interpret it as being preached at, or people who say they don't want politics in their TV when they really just don't want to see alt-right types depicted as villains, despite there being few other ways to depict them in modern mainstream media. This is perhaps more applicable to the controversies relating to HBO's Watchmen show than Rick and Morty. The way it was done in this episode was perhaps the least preachy way to address a larger issue surrounding the show's fandom, and could trick the kinds of fans implicitly being mocked into laughing at it as well. TLDR, while I won't remove the "Awesome" entry on them calling out neo-Nazis in the Rick and Morty fandom, because of the rules on opinion-based entries, I at least chose to add the "among other things" to at least partially address what the controversy is really about. While there perhaps is something to be said about not letting the show be honest about the world we live in, I don't think that not wanting to hear a certain kind of opinion in the shows one watches should automatically make someone be seen as a neo-Nazi, and that if they're going to acknowledge anything relating to the toxic fandom, it should be the other things I mentioned, even if it runs the risk of making the show come off as more preachy. Most alt-right people hate Rick and Morty already anyway due to it being a defining part of the liberal comedy community of the 2010s, so they're probably not going to see the show anyway, let alone get the message. If my rant here makes any of the higher-ups decide that the entry I'm talking about should be removed or more heavily edited, then OK. I'm not trying to change anything too heavily, I just want readers to consider things from multiple angles."
So...Yeah. Is this okay?
openLuigi a SacredCow?
YMMV.Super Mario Bros recently had a Sacred Cow entry about the franchise itself deleted, while a sub-bullet about Mario being one was deleted in favor of Luigi. Luigi is generally well-liked, but so is Mario, and I think the franchise as a whole is definitely one even more than specific characters. (I've also seen more than a few fanfics where Luigi gets Ron the Death Eater treatment, like I HATE YOU, so his appeal isn't necessarily universal either.)
Here's the deleted entries:
"** The franchise in general is this, due to its incomparable level of success and recognition. Almost all gamers (let alone Nintendo fans) have had some exposure to Super Mario, often as a first childhood game; each major release has a lot of love put into it, and the franchise actively defies the Fleeting Demographic Rule so that fans can continue enjoying the series well into adulthood. Mario is held in such high regard that the series was able to redeem a franchise widely disliked in the gaming community (the Raving Rabbids) via a crossover game, something very few other franchises are able to pull off.
"** As Nintendo's mascot, Mario himself gets this treatment. While some people dismiss Mario for being a dopey, cartoonish everyman Vanilla Protagonist compared to characters like Link, he is near-universally loved and is almost never criticized outright, largely due to his universal appeal — something even Mickey Mouse couldn't sustain over the years. Some modifications of his character — such as portraying him as a Bishōnen or a villain, sexualizing him, or putting him in a CD-i game — are mostly frowned upon, unless it's done for humorous purposes."
And here's the added entry:
"** Luigi is The Woobie, having been pushed out of the spotlight enough In-Universe that just about everyone who isn't Mario or Peach cannot remember his name even though he's done just as much work as Mario and has been just as good at dealing with a threat, and also being branded a coward by Toads who rag on him even while he's trying to save them. Luigi's plight has thus elicited a lot of sympathy from the fans, to the point that it's hard to find anyone who has anything negative to say about the character. Weirdly enough, while a lot of the characters who are portrayed as more of a Jerkass in fanfics and fan parodies are the ones who have criticized Luigi, this also includes Mario, even though he has put himself through hardships because he didn't want to go on without Luigi, supported Luigi while others were abusing him, and even shown his respect for Luigi's heroics. However, the reason Luigi gets next to no credit for his actions is ultimately because Mario is so much more well-known, which means that he is, in a way, somewhat contributing to Luigi's pain and is thus usually characterized as a neglectful, controlling, and sociopathic Big Brother Bully with some of the most trivial offenses — like rubbing their shoes against each other after Luigi wins a trophy in Mario Power Tennis — being used as "evidence"."
Thoughts?
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.SuperMarioBros
openBase Breaking Character, Persona 5 Royal. Videogame
The following contains Royal spoilers. You have been warned.
I just noticed this Paragraph from Persona 5 that seriously bugs me:
- Kasumi Yoshizawa was inevitably going to rouse a divide. While some appreciate the steps that were taken to prevent a repeat of the backlash garnered for Marie and see her as a decent character in her own right. Others find that she’s a largely irrelevant character to both the main plot and the third semester where she takes center stage. To some, she's worse than Marie since Marie still enriched the story, and she still managed to come across as friends with the other members of the Investigation Team outside of the protagonist. Sumire, on the other hand, has little to no interaction with the Phantom Thieves who aren't called Joker or Akechi note She does have one scene where Futaba is included, but some would argue that even then it's still about Joker than actually introducing Sumire to a teammate making her feel isolated amongst the Phantom Thieves. Even those who love Sumire tend to agree with her detractors that she was made playable way too late in the game and suffers for it as she exists within a bubble that only floats down whenever Joker's involved. Some see her as being forced into a preexisting story and adds nothing new to the story or to the Phantom Thieves. note Her backstory has been compared to Futaba's. Only this time around really she was responsible for someone's death. Her unhealthy way of coping isn't unlike Yusuke turning a blind eye to Maderame's abuse of his pupils. Her getting angry at the expectations bestowed upon her was Makoto's breaking point. Even her teaching Joker some gymnastics comes across as odd to some since Joker was already performing gymnastic feats without her assistance in the base game and before their Confidant even started. There's also some debate on her Character Development. She either ends the game as a completed person living as Sumire, or she's still living in the shadow of the real Kasumi and Joker at the same time note Those who go for the latter feel that she doesn’t behave any different as Sumire than she does as Kasumi and Sumire goes right back to emulating Kasumi's look at the end of her Confidant (which itself causes some minor debate; Is she just honoring her sister? Is there a better way to do that without making it seem like she's regressing?). Meanwhile, living in Joker's shadow ties right back into the fact that she barely has a life outside of him. And that her preexisting self-esteem issues are just gone when she gets confirmation that Kasumi saw her as an equal and rival the whole time. What can make matters worse is how one feels about Maruki's inclusion, whether or not it's better or worse than how Sumire was handled. Even her entire relationship with Joker is debated upon. It's either one of the more natural Confidants, or Joker is forced into caring about her and is completely out of character around her. note Some have noticed that the player is rarely given the chance to snark at her or criticize her like they can to virtually every other person he comes in contact with. And that her status as the Implied Love Interest is constantly being shoved down players throats note She basically admits to loving Joker at Rank 8, a lot of her designs are meant to mirror Joker, and she's the only character Joker has a Showtime with besides Akechi and arguably hurts her Character development.
I have also been issued a request on Base Breaker Cleanup
to review this.
Basically:
- Many of the arguments in this entry are heavily biased and flawed, for a person who was well-versed with Royal's storyline, at the least
- Guessing and Alternative Character Interpretation that can simply be rebuked within in-game dialogue
- The flaws of this character, as far as where it was left largely unambiguous, is that she barely has any interaction with other PT members and no involvement other than the last month of game, something which has been unambiguously agreed upon. It belongs exactly in They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character.
- Character is largely well received in the fandom unlike most entries there.
I've been removed the paragraph for now, if anyone else adds it the next time, I leave it alone until further notice, because someone added it back earlier on and I don't want this to degenerate into an edit war.
Edited by Mr-ex777openRegarding an entry on the Main.{{Jerkass}} page
Just ran across this at the end of the Main.Jerkass page (here's the history
):
There may be some offensive language (i.e. "punk" being changed to "you faggot") in there. What's the best possible way we can do about this?
Edited by gjjonesopen Can someone fix the Tofie page? Music
The page for electronic musician Tofie is a complete mess. Half the tropes are misused and are seemingly only there for the creator to gush over how attractive they think the artist is, one of them is a ZCE, and the page isn't even indexed. I'd do it myself, but I have no idea where to start.
Edited by PhysicalStaminaopenPossibly Biased Editing on the Glee YMMV Page. Live Action TV
lakingsif edited and removed a couple entries on the YMMV page for Glee, claiming that they were "defending homophobia" even though I honestly fail to see how (I'm bi and thus part of the LGBT community myself; there's no way that I would genuinely try to defend homophobia). They were also one of the main editors for the TV Tropes Glee recaps (which, if I'm not mistaken, have actually popped up here on Ask The Tropers a couple times), and it's clear from the tone of these recaps, as well as some of the edits previously mentioned, that they really hate the character Finn Hudson, usually choosing to interpret his actions in the worst possible way and also consistently downplaying the flaws of characters like Quinn and especially Santana. Their edits seem really shoehorned and complain-y, with things like referring to Finn as "acting like the hetero savior of the gays", and many entries were deleted without any real explanation. I know it's a YMMV page and it's for more subjective reactions and all, but I feel like this is a little excessive.
Here are the edits in question: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.Glee#edit26500052
open MainstreamObscurity Western Animation
YMMV.Sonic The Hedgehog Sat AM had this added by Eagle70:
"Mainstream Obscurity: [[invoked]] This is a Sonic The Hedgehog cartoon, the first one to ever enter production, and arguably the most ambitious. It was also put under strict mandates and heavily preempted in most markets, and cancelled in a network buyout, only to have the franchise completely change gears in 1996, leaving this cartoon looking like an In Name Only adaptation. Despite the popularity of it's long running comic book spinoff and the show itself getting significant
critical
acclaim
from most reviews, the cartoon itself is hardly watched by most of the fandom. Additionally, the notriously broken Sonic fandom has elements that tend to hate the show and it's characters for not resembling more modern titles, despite not really knowing anything about the show beyond the premise."
I feel like this could be shorted significantly and with less potholes and bashing at the end, but am not entirely sure what to do. What do you guys think?
EDIT: Also it kinda is an In Name Only adaptation; per InNameOnly.Western Animation, AoSTH was the closest to the games until Sonic X.
" Besides the overall theme of nature vs. machinery, the only things Sonic the Hedgehog (Sat AM) has in common with the games are Sonic, Tails (who was Demoted to Extra), the rings (which here act as a Deus ex Machina device), Buzzbombers (which only appeared in the pilot), and Robotnik (who looked quite different from his appearance in the games and was substantially more fearsome than any other interpretation of the character). This does not stop it from being one of the more highly regarded Sonic adaptations. "
Edited by lalalei2001openSchindler's List as an example of White Man's Burden Film
A while ago Mark2000
added Schindler's List as an example on the trope page of White Man's Burden, which was removed for the entry itself being objectively inaccurate, they also added Mighty Whitey to that film's page and edit warred about it until it was deleted a second time.
Flash forward and LadyEros
has added the example to the White Man's Burden.
Now personally I think the trope doesn't apply, for the reason that The Holocaust was targeting people who were white Europeans too, even if the rhetoric back then portrayed them as sub-human. And also by the editors' logic then any instance when a privileged individual helps an oppressed group would be this trope.
What do you think?
openI need a second opinion
In a previous post, I raised some concerns about the Common Knowledge pages for X-Men and Spider-Man. I feel that I should probably ask a more specific question about both of those pages now.
Both pages have a folder titled "Wider Marvel Universe", which (allegedly) addresses the common misconception that Spider-Man and the X-Men don't interact with other Marvel Comics superheroes that much. But both of them are crammed with entries that go grossly off-topic, and ramble at length about obscure Marvel trivia that have very little to do with common misconceptions held by the general public (which is what Common Knowledge is supposedly all about). They also seem very contradictory, since both of them include entries that outright say that the "misconception" isn't really a misconception (i.e. Spider-Man and the X-Men really don't interact with other Marvel superheroes for most of their history).
The X-Men entries are a bit more egregious than the Spider-Man entries, but I have serious doubts about whether any of these entries (included below) fit the definition of Common Knowledge. But I also feel a little apprehensive about outright deleting an entire folder.
I need a second opinion:
Do you think I'd be justified in deleting these entries?
- The X-Men having historically minimal involvement (at best) with the greater, non-mutant side of the Marvel Universe, at least compared to other Marvel superheroes, was often cited as a justification for Fox continuing to hold the X-Men movie rights before Disney acquired them, since (of course) the X-Men would've never interacted with any of the other characters in the Marvel Cinematic Universe anyways. This argument isn't without merit but it is badly contextualized and poorly premised owing to the huge changes since the first publication of these characters.
- As mentioned below, the X-Men series since The '70s easily supplanted the Fantastic Four as Marvel's most popular team and it had more spin-offs, solo titles, and events than others, while at the time the Avengers were a B-List dumping ground (a situation that was itself a reversal of the status-quo where originally the X-Men were C-List and the Avengers more viable, albeit still less well known than the Fantastic Four). So the idea that the X-Men don't cross into the wider Marvel Universe and is its own self-contained thing is precisely because nobody in the fans and among the editors were clamoring for wider integration until the movie shared universe came around and made it viable. To put simply: From the early-'80s up until around 2005, the X-Men side of the mythos was considered the backbone of the universe and to many, it was the superheroes that weren't mutants/X-Men that were considered on the outside (Spider-Man being the big exception for many years), not the other way around. If you need a quick reference, just take a look at the roster of the well-regarded 2000 Crossover fighter Marvel vs. Capcom 2note Of the 28 Marvel characters, 18 are considered X-Men-related, including two Wolverines. The only ones that weren't part of the X-Men mythos were Spider-Man, Captain America, Iron Man, War Machine, The Incredible Hulk, Venom, Doctor Doom, Thanos, Blackheart, and Shuma-Gorath, the latter two being Unexpected Characters chosen for their unique designs and gameplay potential. There's a certain hilarity that a generic Sentinel or an F-lister like Marrow got to be in the crossover over characters like Black Panther or The Mighty Thor, which would earn Snark Bait in today's world. and you'll see exactly why this is misconceived and why the idea is from a perspective looking at it now through filtered glasses.
- Not helping is that this has been acknowledged by writers and in-universe with there even being a correlation between the two at times. Grant Morrison's iconic run of New X-Men (considered a Soft Reboot that changed the franchise forever) deliberately kept the non-mutant/X-Men side of the Marvel Universe as minimal as possible, because he wanted the story to feel distinct on its own. This seeped into the narrative itself, where most of the mutants were neutral to the Civil War because the rest of the MU did nothing to help when Genosha was destroyed (Emma Frost even asked Iron Man when he tried to enlist their aide: "Where were the Avengers when our children were dying?"). Indeed, the separation between the two has been real, and has been part of the narrative for a variety of factors, leading to these scenarios.
- It should be noted that this even has precedence in the earliest issues of Marvel, albeit for completely opposite reasons. At the time, the X-Men were about as C-list as you could get for Marvel titles; it didn't have any of the epic stories the series is known for, the analogy for the Civil Rights Movement wasn't there, nor was it a diverse Multinational Team which the comics would set the standard for, it mainly had the team (consisting of five white New Yorkers) dealing with D-list bad guys when they weren't Magneto (how many people seriously know of The Vanisher or Sauron?), with Magneto himself being your typical over-the-top villain with no real depth or values, and the general perception by everyone was that the X-Men was nothing more than a dime-store version of the Fantastic Four. For that reason, the X-Men hardly ever crossed over to the wider universe mainly because they were just so low on the totem pole, and it was in their best interests to keep them away from the higher-selling and more marketable properties. In fact, it got so bad that in 1970, the entire series was cancelled for five real-world years because they just weren't profitable enough to be worth keeping around. It wasn't until 1975's Giant-Sized X-Men and Chris Claremont's subsequent run did this actually change to where the X-Men were the hot A-list property that stood as the backbone of Marvel for over two decades, and if anything, actually invited more crossover.
- That being said, two of the original members of the Brotherhood of Mutants (Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver) and one of the original X-Men (Beast) were members of The Avengers, which—given its dumping ground status—had very High Turnover Rate qualifying this achievement (since basically they let everyone in at that point). In the case of Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver, they were originally mutant villains turned superheroes, and the idea of them being Magneto's children didn't come in until after Chris Claremont where Magneto became a Tragic Villain with real virtues, because nobody would wish Kirby-Lee Magneto as a father to their worst enemy. For most of their history, Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch had more history and ties to the non-mutant side of the universe than they did within it.
- Notably, Quicksilver has also been very heavily involved with the X-Men's antithesis: The Inhumans. This is mainly through his Interspecies Romance with Crystal, which produced the first mutant/inhuman hybrid in Marvel in the form of their daughter Luna. Also, Scarlet Witch has long been romantically involved with The Vision, and that fact as shaped Marvel as we know in more ways than one such as leading to the reincarnated sons Wiccan and Speed of the Young Avengers.
- There have been several crossovers between the X-Men and other Marvel superheroes, which tends to be neglected because again owing to the great divergence in popularity and sales, these stories tend to be remembered as X-Men stories first, and have lasting consequences in the X-Men continuity rather than elsewhere. Mutant Massacre, for example, was officially a crossover event between the X-Men, X-Factor, the New Mutants, and Thor, and even saw tie-ins with Daredevil and Power Pack, but it had more lasting consequences in the X-Men continuity. Similarly, other stories considered "X-Overs" (the Fan Nickname for the Bat Family Crossover between them) did in fact feature tie-ins to the wider universe, it's just seldom remembered as the X-Men were the stars. Two notable examples are Fall of the Mutants, which reached Captain America, Daredevil, Power Pack, Hulk, and the Fantastic Four, while Inferno was a line-wide story that featured Spider-Man, the Avengers, Cloak and Dagger, Daredevil, Power Pack, the Fantastic Four, and Damage Control fighting off demons — it's just that the X-Men and related teams were the stars while everyone else were second-stringers in terms of marketing and narrative note for reference, the X-Men were core to the plot, whereas the others were used as tie-ins where they held off the demon invasion in New York City.
- X-Men event titles such as Age of Apocalypse were likewise a Marvel-wide event albeit it had more story consequences within the X-Men than elsewhere. A notable example of this in action is Onslaught, which was a company-wide Crisis Crossover that had major ramifications across the wide Marvel Universe (for example, the non-mutant Thunderbolts were formed directly in the wake of it), yet is mainly remembered as an X-Men story first and foremost in no small part because it had heavy themes of anti-mutant sentiment, and that outside of Spider-Man, the X-related characters made up most of the survivors (until they came back, anyways) and it was told primarily from the X-Men perspective with collected editions marketing it as an X-Men story. Even further, the famous House of M storyline was officially a crossover with the X-Men, New X-Men, Excalibur, Avengers, Fantastic Four, and even the Thunderbolts having parts in it, but because this story mainly affected the X-Men and mutants through the Depopulation Bomb known as M-Day, along with many other changes to the X-Men status quo, this is often forgotten or ignored, instead treated as an X story, especially since the impact outside the X-Men side was either minimal or non-obvious.
- Recent years have had more crossovers despite the idea that Marvel is trying to stiff the X-Men over the Inhumans. "The Hand" (a key part of the Daredevil mythos) have a pretty long association with both Wolverine and Psylocke. note Wolverine had many battles with them when he wound up in Japan after years of Walking the Earth (his ex-lover Mariko Yashida's half-brother Kenuichio Harada was a prominent Hand operative), and Psylocke notably switched bodies at one point with the prominent Hand operative Kwannon after passing through the Siege Perilous. Lastly, the X-Men have had many, many adventures alongside Spider-Man, notably sympathizing with him because of their shared status as Heroes With Bad Publicity who were both distant and remote from the superhero continuity, for the Watsonian reason that they were both emblems of the underdog and the outsider and for the Doylist fact that their titles sold better and were more widely read and known than Captain America and Thor, leave alone Iron Man. They spent so much time in fact, that much of the public even thought that Spidey was a mutant himself for a while.
- Iceman in particular has consistently been a good friend of Spidey since the early days and is considered an ally even independently of the X-Men, mainly because both were junior superheroes. Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends famously had Iceman as the co-star, and made a Power Trio with eventual Canon Immigrant Firestar. Also, Firestar deserves mention, mainly because she's a mutant and has historically been far more involved with Spider-Man's corner and the non-mutant side after being canonized, and didn't join the X-Men until decades later in the 2010s.
- This isn't even getting into other Crisis Crossover-type stories, where they (or at least characters among them) often hold a major role, or things connected to the mythos such as the Savage Land or the Shi'ar Imperium, which routinely get visited by other characters. For what it's worth, there have been more crossovers between the X-Men and the wider Marvel continuity in recent yearsnote such as The Childrens Crusade, which starred the Young Avengers, with the Avengers, the X-Men, and even X-Factor were in the mix, while Scarlet Witch might of had the biggest impact in the entire storyline. Lets not forget Secret Invasion either, where the Avengers and X-Men were both co-stars with more inter-continuity story consequences than before. In the wake of the Avengers vs. X-Men event, the two teams started acting in unison, launching the Uncanny Avengers title. Additionally, Jonathan Hickman's landmark Avengers run saw fan-favorites Sunspot and Cannonball joining the Avengers, alongside Wolverine having already been a member. Speaking of which, Wolverine, the most popular X-Man, has rubbed shoulders with basically every character in the universe having a unique dynamic with a bunch of them, chiefly Captain America (being soldiers who fought side-by-side during World War II) and Spider-Man (being Vitriolic Best Buds with Pete).
- On account of the fact that Spider-Man is Marvel's company mascot and globally a superhero whose fame and Pop-Cultural Osmosis rivals the big two of DC - Superman and Batman - the fact that Spider-Man is a street-level Small Steps Hero wasn't commonly disseminated among the general population at least until the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Unlike Batman and Superman who are in their own shared continuity as famous and renowned as they are in the real world, Spider-Man is the Unpopular Popular Character with a mixed reputation within the superhero continuity. Reed Richards' first impression of Spider-Mannote where Peter begged the Four to bring him into the Fantastic Four (and like the dork that he is, already custom plated a FF style insignia on his costume for his "audition") was marking him down as a potential supervillain. His personality, as a constantly quipping, trash-talker doesn't endear him among his allies (with the exception of Captain America, another Working-Class Hero from New York who's on the modest side as far as super strength goes but actually gets to do "save the world" stuff) , while others found his insect theme creepy. Spider-Man's stories were always local in scale, and he never really gets to "save the world" or so on, doing decently but poorly against Marvel's series-wide villains like Doctor Doom and Thanos.
- On the flip-side, the idea of Spider-Man as the ultimate "Street Level" hero — a Fragile Speedster who while formidable to a normal, is on the low end of the scale for superhumans in general as he is relegated to fighting street level crimes, and on multiple occasions he's gotten his ass handed to him by Badass Normals. While the latter part is technically true, Spider-Man in the comics is much, much more powerful than a non-comic reader might think. True, he's not the strongest physically in the Marvel Universe, but he's still pretty damn strong considering he can land a 200,000 pound plane all by himself, and combine that with speed, reflexes and agility being quite possibly the greatest outside of speedsters, not to mention his spider sense that gives him a massive advantage in combat, and this combination is unbeatable to many when the gloves are off. The part where he has trouble with low-level characters? It's actually due to being Willfully Weak, as he refuses to kill anyone. To put in perspective, The Kingpin has given Spider-Man trouble numerous times in combat. But when Aunt May was shot and nearly killed, he completely loses it and gives Kingpin an effortless and savage beatdown before telling the broken and battered Kingpin that if May dies, so will he — in a What If? where Aunt May died, he tore out Kingpin's heart with his bare hands. Furthermore, he's beaten Wolverine (effortlessly at that) for making insensitive remarks at Mary Jane. In the first Secret Wars he outfought the entire X-Men, and gave Titania such a vicious beating that she avoided coming into contact with him for years. For the record, Titania is as strong as She-Hulk. Finally, he beat Firelord, a character tougher than Thor, when he cut loose and the other Avengers had to stop him from accidentally killing the guynote in fairness, this story is still very controversial in the fandom as an instance of Popularity Power, seeing as how Firelord can casually blow up planets; some fandom-spaces still use "SM-v-FL" as a shorthand for "it might technically be canon but it still doesn't count.". In the 2010s, when Otto Octavius had control of his body, an iconic moment was when he punched Scorpion (a standard and often considered dangerous member of Spider-Man's rogues) hard enough to break his jaw off, and this was by accident. Even Octavius himself was absolutely shocked by how strong he was. To say that Spider-Man is weak would be underselling his abilities. It's not that he's a weak character, it's that he's so Afraid of Their Own Strength that he usually only operates at a fraction of his full power.
- Spidey is often thought of as someone who sticks mainly to their corner of the Marvel Universe, with him often being the lone hero and focus of any given story, and as such he shines best when working alone. As in the case of the X-Men below, the main reason this is so, is because for the longest time he was far more popular and beloved than the likes of Avengers, Iron Man et al, and there was no fan-demand and editorial interest in making him more integrated, and indeed it was in their interests to keep Spider-Man apart. However, even though he does occupy a major corner of his own in the Verse, Spidey is actually quite active with other heroes both within his books and without. While Spidey does have a corner of his own, that doesn't mean he's strictly defined by it and his titles remains a major pillar of the broader Marvel Universe.
- For example, the famous Maximum Carnage storyline had him teaming up with a whole host of heroes to take on Carnage and the other villains, all of whom survived the aftermath. It was also Marvel's biggest selling event title until Civil War (in which he also played a significant role). He's helped out many different teams, even if he wasn't officially a member, such as the Power Pack, the New Warriors, X-Men (even having a stint as a teacher at the Jean Grey School of Higher Learning, despite not being a mutant), the Avengers (as both a reserve and full-fledged member), and the Future Foundation (where he took the place of Johnny Storm as a core member, at Storm's own request in the Video Will after his "death" precisely because Spidey was always so close to them). In fact, he headlined his own series called Marvel Team-Up for a whopping thirteen years, where he'd team up with a different character in each issue.
- The Punisher made his debut in Amazing Spider-Man's series as a villain before becoming a successful spin-off character. Monica Rambeau also made her debut in Amazing Spider-Man Annual #16, while Cloak and Dagger showed up in the pages of The Spectacular Spider-Man and more recently, Jessica Jones was inserted into the MU as a former classmate of Peter's from high school. Characters from other stories have a tendency to drop in on his comics, and the reverse is also true. He's teamed up with Daredevil, Iron Fist, Luke Cage, Moon Knight, Prowler, and much more, and he's had a pretty longstanding friendship with Johnny Storm and an association with the Fantastic Four that goes way back to his first issues and Doctor Doom first showed up outside the pages of Fantastic Four in the pages of ASM with Spider-Man essentially launching Victor's career as a Marvel-wide villain.
- Furthermore, many of Spider-Man's supporting characters have had ties and connections to the broader Marvel verse. J. Jonah Jameson as head of the Daily Bugle often showed up in several Daredevil comics since Ben Urich, star-reporter of that paper is a key Daredevil supporting character, and Phil Sheldon star of Marvels also worked for the Bugle. Liz Allan, Spider-Man's old high school friend, during the period when she was a widow of Harry Osborn, dated Foggy Nelson, Daredevil's closest friend and law partner. Jameson also appears in many other stories, and his son John Jameson used to be part of Captain America's supporting cast. More recently, Flash Thompson, Peter's old bully turned friend, broke out as Agent Venom and appeared in many wider crossover events and was even a member of the Guardians of the Galaxy. Mary Jane Watson likewise has made many cameos in other Marvel titles and events, and was originally Carol Danvers major supporting character in her first three issues, and more recently, joined Stark Industries as Tony's PA in which capacity she made many significant appearances in the Iron Man books and other titles in which Tony crossed over.
- Spidey's extensive cast of villains have also made their presence felt in the wider universe. Rhino has tangled with the Hulk so much that it's shared custody, Kraven has menaced Hulk and Black Panther, Kingpin started as a Spider-Man villain before becoming Daredevil's Arch-Enemy, rogues Electro and Mysterio have also fought DD (the former even being his first supervillain encounter), Sandman spent ten years fighting the Fantastic Four after his Spider-Man debut and in the '90s he actually joined the Avengers after having a Heel–Face Turn (for a while, anyways), the Masters of Evil (enemies of the Avengers) have in fact included Spider-Man villains among the roster (notably one iteration was led by Doctor Octopus), and more recently the Shocker even became a rogue to Breakout Character Kamala Khan. However, none of this can compare to the example below.
- Spidey's Arch-Enemy Norman Osborn (aka the Green Goblin) was built up for over a decade as the Big Bad of the Earth part of the wide Marvel Universe from the mid-'00s to the mid-'10s. During this time, Osborn menaced just about everyone he came across, both directly and indirectly, and he spun off the pages of Spider-Man. In fact, he was even played up as the Shadow Archetype of both Iron Man and Captain America, his Iron Patriot armor reflecting both of them.
openIs this ROCEJ?
I found this example on YMMV.Battle Bots under The Scrappy.
- Chomp has quickly gotten into this zone for several reasons. The first being the fact that builder Zoe Stephenson is often used to push the "women can be just as good at Battlebots" agenda down the throats of viewers. Moreover is the fact that Chomp won against The Disk 'O Inferno despite being dominated the whole time because of the skewed new rules (see Scrappy Mechanic below). It's telling when the audience booed when Chomp won.
I highlighted the specific part in bold here because it seems to be complaining about the builder Zoe herself rather than the robot she built. Is this Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment?
openThe issue of YMMV.TVTokyo
YMMV.TV Tokyo is a YMMV page regarding a Creator (a TV station to be exact). While I agree the Germans Love David Hasselhoff must be removed, I'm unsure about the two "memetic" entries. The things is, those memes relates to the editorial preferences of the station—in this case, a general aversion to news—so it could be associated with a work, or you can is is the work itself, on a more vague sense. But for this particular policy, is it a work?
Also note that beyond that, the existence of that meme is proven beyond doubt.

So, this is a weird. I removed
this from Trivia.Snow White 2025:
I removed them because the first two are mostly just complaining and the third one is mostly speculation that I couldn't find any actual concrete information on. Now I still stand by that but then I thought "Hey those looked familair." So, I looked through the history but couldn't find anything. Then I remembered that the page had been cut before for being made before we had a trailer. So, I did some digging and found this post where I claimed to have removed some similar but not identical entries
(to be fair at the time most people agreed that it was misuse).
So, yeah between the page being cut, real life stuff happening since then, and the slightly different entries. I had forgotten that I had done it before. That is no excuse, however, and I would like to report myself.
Edited by Bullman