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Ask the Tropers:
open Reporting an Edit War
So on TragicVillain.Live Action TV Charles 95 added
this entry for Supernatural's Lucifer.
- Lucifer himself is finally solidified as this. With the reveal of Chuck's true nature in the Season 14 finale and the entirety of the final season, it is revealed that God allowed Lucifer to become evil (likely pulling the strings himself) and then punished him with eternal misery just so the story would be more interesting for him. Despite all the horrible things Ol' Luci has done throughout the series, it turns out his spouting of God's machinations and his existence as a mere pawn wasn't wrong after all.
I removed it
after taking it to Is this an example thread
where it was decided that it wasn't an example due none of this being protrayed as Tragic or sympathetic. Charles 95 recently added
this near identical entry without discussing it anywhere.
- Downplayed quite heavily, but Lucifer himself is ultimately proven to be this. While he's unquestionably evil, narcissistic, bigoted, sadistic and psychopathic, his claims that God made him this way is both Metaphorically True and properly true, as God is a Greater-Scope Villain who corrupted him (or rather allowed him to be corrupted) just so the world would have a true "villain" to face, seeing at as better entertainment. While it doesn't excuse his awful actions throughout the show, his cries about being punished and corrupted for thousands of years because of God's actions rather than his own don't ring so hollow anymore.
Now again not only is this not protrayed sympatheticly but he is still protrayed as having chosen to become evil of his own free will, along with happily working with God, and is simply revealed to be a monster with out an ounce of sympathy by the end. Plus this was not discussed anywhere. So this is an Edit War correct?
Edited by BullmanopenEdit Tug-of-War
(Sorry.)
Over on AwesomeMusic.Kirby (courtesy link to page's edit history
), there's been a bit of back-and-forth between nintendofanboy77
and KagSwirby
over the title of one of the Kirby franchise's recurring tracks. It seems that in the Japanese version, the track in question is titled "Clash! Gourmet Race" (as is the game mode it accompanies), but in the English translation, it's simply "Gourmet Race".
If I'm reading the page's edit history correctly, it was originally added as "Gourmet Race" many years ago (given that it's one of the series' signature tracks). KagSwirby changed it from "Gourmet Race" to "Clash! Gourmet Race" in February 2022, and nintendofanboy77 changed it back again a few days later, explaining in the edit reason that "Gourmet Race" is the English title. However, in June 2022, KagSwirby re-added "Clash!" (to multiple examples instead of just to the "main" listing on the page), and nintendofanboy77 re-deleted it; I wouldn't have thought anything of this had it not been for the latter's edit reason ('How many times do I have to re-state this: the English name is JUST "Gourmet Race."').
I have no horse in this ((clash!) gourmet) race (...I'll see myself out), but even if the wiki policy is to use official English translations where they exist, this seems to be crossing into Edit War territory.
open Questionable edit and edit war
On July 4th, 2019
, the troper wrpen99 added Ambiguous Gender Identity as a sub-trope of Artistic License – Biology — this was their only edit at the time, and they provided no edit reason. On September 20th of the same year
, Nubian Satyress deleted this addition. On August 2nd 2021
, wrpen99 re-added it, again their only edit, again no edit reason. 21 days later
, Rena Starfall deleted it. On the 5th of this month
, wrpen99 re-added Ambiguous Gender Identity to the page, again their only edit, again no edit reason.
Now, I see no possible reason why Ambiguous Gender Identity would qualify as Artistic License – Biology. The trope doesn't in any way mention gender identity in relation to biology, only in strictly psychological terms, and the trope itself isn't unrealistic. However, even aside what I see as a persistent agenda on the part of wrpen99, they have undeniably been waging an edit war. I'd like to remove their addition after their suspension, and I'd like a consensus for or against such a decision.
open Politics on JonTron part 2
People are still adding political/drama posts onto YMMV.Jon Tron. While I don't agree with Jon's views, considering the recent stream debate we should probably add some message warning people against adding these types of examples on the page itself.
openDoes Red And Wolf exist
Red And Wolf was created recently and I'm having trouble finding any other sources that confirm it's existence
The page itself says that information is scarce but could anyone please help me figure out if the creator is making things up
Edited by jormis29openYMMV Riverdale issues Live Action TV
The YMMV.Riverdale page is full of anti-Betty stuff mostly made by one troper, hiddenelastic, who's used Base-Breaking Character and Creator's Pet incorrectly. I sent a Pm about Word Cruft since it was the closest match but we might need to craft PMs about problem tropes like that, IE " Base-Breaking Character needs to acknowledge both sides of an argument" or "Creator's Pet must meet four specific criteria".
Examples:
"Base-Breaking Character: Betty, especially as of Season 2. Some fans argue that they find Betty annoying and hypocritical. Many fans opinions of her have changed for the negative after she blackmailed and threatened Cheryl in 2x02. Her self righteous attitude hasn't done her any favors with some of the fans either. The fact that a lot of fans feel that Betty is favored by the writers, doesn't help matters at all."
" Creator's Pet: Betty. Dear God, Betty. It's speculated that Betty is arguably the writer's favorite given how much focus they give her. This in turn has turned many fans off of Betty's character and they actually find her more annoying and boring, especially in Season 2. Many fans have complained that they wish the writers would stop putting so much focus on Betty and focus on other characters like Kevin, Josie, and especially Cheryl. "
Edited by lalalei2001openWould this be an edit war? Videogame
This was added to Doki Doki Literature Club! by Etheru on November 17:
- Anti-Frustration Features: There's a "skip" button that allows the player to fast forward through dialogue that they've already seen, which significantly helps to streamline the process of getting the Golden Ending for the game. It's also functional when Yuri kills herself in Act 3, since clicking through all of the garbage text takes a while.
I removed it later that day for being a non-example with this edit reason: "I'm not really sure this should count...having a skip button is a standard feature of visual novels, and in Ren'Py in particular, V Ns made with it include it by default—you have to deliberately disable the functionality in order to not allow for skipping. It's a bit like calling the save function an AFF."
A similar example was added to the page by King Lyger, and subsequently edited by them, on December 8. It currently looks like this:
- Anti-Frustration Features: If you load a save from a previous day, the game lets you fast-forward through dialogue you've already seen by either clicking "Skip" or holding down a key. The skip stops automatically when you reach dialogue that you haven't seen yet. The game also lets you skip through a part of Yuri's event in Act 2 after she stabs herself to death, which features nothing but strings of broken font characters.
The third sentence is a valid example, but the rest is essentially the same as the example I removed. I was going to remove that part again, but I thought it might constitute an edit war if I did, even though they were added by two different tropers (and I don't think King Lyger intentionally re-added a deleted example; that page has gotten a lot of edits).
Edited by MissMokushirokuresolved Internet Backdraft/Marvel Cinematic Universe has a stupid entry Film
On Marvel Cinematic Universe there's this entry:
- A theory has been springing up that Marvel are sabotaging the X-Men and Fantastic Four franchises in order to weaken Fox's success with their films, noting their reduced presence in the comicsnote which isn't true; the X-Men are currently one of the biggest lines they're producing, with more spin-offs than ever, Wolverine and Deadpool dying note which is no different than any other 'big shocking deaths', and is being used to launch several miniseries attracting tons of publicity to the X-Men line as it is, the Fantastic Four comic being cancellednote which has been underselling for a while, and while not the worst seller, it's still been pretty bad and doesn't have the cult following that their other books have, lack of merchandise produced for X-Men: Days of Future Pastnote which wasn't true; there weren't any children's toys produced, which is largely down to licensing issues; they still sold Hot Toys collectibles for them though, are still selling toys for the franchise in general, and sold toys for the film before that, their reduced appearances in recent animated seriesnote ignoring that Wolverine did get an animated movie and has appeared in their other cartoons, and a memo apparently sent out asking for artists to not send them Fantastic Four artworknote the validity of this memo is questionable at best. The theory itself makes little sense, but hasn't stopped people buying into it, including Rob Liefeld note Liefeld's creations are tied with Fox's licenses, so of course he'd be on their side over this.
- Disney's acquisition of Fox. Beyond the "Yay, X-Men and the Fantastic Four can be in the MCU!" cheering, fans were concerned about how Disney continued to acquire a huge amount of popular IPs to the point of becoming a near monopoly.
The first one is iffy in its own right, but the second bullet is my concern today. A couple of things:
1. This isn't about the Marvel Cinematic Universe, it's about Disney. The only connection the MCU really has to this is that Marvel Studios, the guys who oversee it, are owned by Disney. Unless the entry is alleging that Disney spent $71.3 billion acquiring the Fox film assets primarily to get the film rights to the X-Men and Fantastic Four franchises, in which case... yeah, I totally believe that. TOTALLY.
2. In all seriousness, Disney didn't do this because they thought Marvel Studios needed two more franchises. They did it because they want to bulk up their collective film library in preparation for going into the streaming market. Remember, Disney+ launches later this year, and Disney wants to leverage their majority control of Hulu to push for an international release around the same time, with the stated goal of being a place to put their adult-leaning content. That's why this happened.
3. For the record, this entry is heavily biased, mentioning the backlash to the decision to greenlight the acquisition while dismissing ANY praise or excitement as just people being excited for certain franchises; call me crazy but I don't think it's as bad as this entry makes it out to be.
4. This is a minor complaint compared to the preceding three, but it's also an example of bad indentation. It's got nothing to do with the preceding entry other than that they both involve Fox. I mean, seriously?
Look, my vote is to just delete it, but I wanted to at least make sure I consulted the community to see if that's the only workable solution, because I get the feeling that SOMEONE is going to want to talk about it on the wiki SOMEWHERE and it's worth figuring out where, if anywhere, is an appropriate place to do so.
Edited by MinisterOfSinisteropenRandom quote changes, deletions, etc
Troper GG Crono has... some questionable edits. Note that none of these edits provided any edit reasoning:
- On LOL, 69, they removed The Stinger and changed the page quote (which I already brought up on the Quote thread for fixing purposes).
- On Framing Device, they edited the self-demonstrating bit at the top solely to remove the word "damn".
- They changed another page quote, this one on Bob Chipman.
- They deleted something about "The Crapshoot" from LoadingReadyLive.
- Another page quote change, this time on Guilty Gear.
Mind, this is only looking at the first ten or so edits in their history. The theme I'm getting is random, un-discussed changes to articles to the point of outright removals of things they don't like with no explanations given. I'll send a notifier about leaving edit reasons, but their edits go back to 2016, and they were doing it then, too.
(Edit: Kinda thought that linking directly to their edit would, well, show their edit. Apparently not. To find it like I did, I just clicked to see all edits and then Ctrl+F'd their name.)
Edited by WarJay77openUser Bat committing vandalism
Hey, all. This user Bat
seems to be blanking entire articles aimed at works by myself and the trope Scraggle. He is also going through entire articles and removing any references to our works through the wiki proper, such as on Badass Gay, Master Swordsman, Foregone Conclusion, etc. This seems quite deliberate and targeted.
I am like 99 percent sure this is the banned user Utter Koala, btw.
Edited by LightysnakeopenRadio / True Capitalist probably should be purged like the Alex Jones page Radio
First of all, what he does is not a persona. He really means what he says. Second of all, he has been banned from Gab for hate speech, specifically death threats. He will tell you himself that that was the reason. https://web.archive.org/web/20190121192457/https://ghost.report/2018/12/13/message-from-ghost-is-it-the-last/
openSelf-demonstrating and ThisTroper in Creator page
The page Creator - Queg is written from the first person, (pretending to be) written from the Creator themselves. Then at the end it says it is written to be self-demonstrating.
Aren't self-demonstrating articles only allowed in the /SelfDemonstrating Namespace? And ThisTroper language not at all?
P.S. the Troper who re-wrote it extensively into the current form, Frabaginarf, only has one edit
and it is that. Apparently that Troper either is, or is pretending to be, the Creator in question. Again, seems fishy in the light of The Fic May Be Yours, but the Trope Page Is Ours.
Should this page stay in the form it currently is? Or what to do with it?
Edited by LB7979openSelf-demonstrating - flipping the bird
Piterpicher made a self-demonstrating page for Flipping the Bird, although all it contains is ASCII art of said hand gesture. Is this kosher?
Edited by Tenma-YuukiopenHow to format the examples on this page
The Memetic Mutation page for Music has this note:
Please add entries in the following format:
- The name of the song.
- Meme name: description of meme and how it's used.
- Source of meme and fandom it relates to in the form of a note/labelnote.
- Famous instances (such as the Rick Roll during the Thanksgiving parade).
- Further mutations and successor memes, if any.
- Meme name: description of meme and how it's used.
Problem is no examples follow that format. They're either essentially zero-context, explain in the example itself, or explain in a labelnote.
Edited by Pichu-kunopenMagnificentBastard cleanup thread
Hi folks, myself and another troper were interested in starting a Magnificent Bastard cleanup thread in the same way it's been done for Complete Monster. We figured we'd do a similar layout as the latter, with people doing effort posts detailing the work, the character, the MB qualities they posses and addressing anything that would throw their status as one into question and with the same at least five more upvotes than downvotes, create a writeup trying not to go over 300 words. We'd establish a list of criteria that can be updated as time goes on and IMO this is a trope that really needs some TLC. Thoughts?
openPositive quotes about Don Bluth
I noticed that every single quote on Quotes.Don Bluth that isn't from Bluth himself is something negative about him and his work. Does anyone know where we can find some positive quotes about him?
I was thinking one of Doug Walker's videos, whether from his Real Thoughts on Bluth's films, or a Nostalgia Critic review.
resolved Christian Potter Chandler. Web Original
Hoo boy. Fanfic.Christian Potter Chandler is a Harry Potter fanfic that replaces the title character with... well, you can guess. The fic proceeds to imply that preteen Chris-chan touches himself at night, among other things.
Anyone else think this one should get the Asperchu treatment?
Edited by bwburke94resolved Quotes misuse?
On this page
, Brendan Rizzo added
a quote from himself, with its source being from one of his own edit reasons on this very wiki.
Though quotes from Youtube comments and other websites are allowed (as far as I know), I wasn't aware that you could use your own edit reasons as quotes on a Quotes subpage. Or am I reading this wrong?
resolved Ban evader? Web Original
Longing Buffalo 400 has just started editing today, and I noticed some pretty suspicious patterns:
- Their username has a similar structure to that of Ikea Alien 209 (random words + 3-digit numbers)
- Some of their
entries have
grammatical mistakes
not too far off from what Ikea used to do.

Okay, I don't normally jump to reporting a new troper for issues, but there's so many things going on here I don't know where to start. Basically, justSomeGuy1 seems to have joined the wiki to edit the page for Fanfic.Heroes Series, which I happen to follow. Having apparently began editing this morning, they have:
Like I said, I don't like jumping straight to reporting someone who is clearly new, but they're rushing so fast into editing that they didn't seem to actually realize how anything worked first, and now the page needs a reversion to before their first edit here
. I can add back in the stuff they got right, but while I would normally send notifiers myself, I don't even know where to start here, and I honestly think they'd benefit most from slowing down and reading the Administrivia pages before they edit again.
Edited by STARCRUSHER99