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openIssue regarding an edit undone. Anime
Apologies for so many ATT entries. I know this gets annoying.
So in August of last year, I went onto the Fairy Tail section for the "Main Villains", and asked why the "character" Ankhselam was listed as a Big Bad when he is a Greater-Scope Villain who never actually appears in the series. The characters listed on the page were the three major antagonists of the final arc, something the "character" in question is not. Nobody commented on it, so on January 20th of this year, I moved him to the Other Section.
February 13th, Sarakael, a troper I have had very poor interactions with due to his very strict "My way or the high way" mindset, undid this saying; "You should learn to wait for other opinion before doing thing as drastic as that."
Not only is this a passive aggressive message, I did wait for people to comment on it. For nearly five months. Not a single person commented so I moved it after waiting. I want to see peoples opinions since Sarakael has often ignored discussions if he does not agree with them, and he himself never engaged the topic.
Edited by keyblade333openA weird use of a ymmv trope on a film page Western Animation
So Idumean Patriot added this to
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.TheHunchbackOfNotreDame
Under Strawman Has a Point:
- While his beliefs are still bigoted and he remains a crusader/fanatic, the movie proves Frollo more or less right that at least those Gypsies who are associated with the Court of Miracles are dangerous criminals, and arguably even terrorists for attempting to murder the serving captain of the guard. Even if they had done nothing bad whatever before, that by itself actually serves to perfectly justify him arresting them, even under modern legal norms.
- Similarly, while his treatment of Esmeralda can in no way be justified, the fact remains that she is a criminal who resisted arrest and assaulted the arresting officers, with a degree of violence that would likely have killed or seriously maimed at least some of them without the meliorating effects of cartoon physics.note She also publicly reviled a Minister of the Crown (i.e., Frollo himself), which would count as a serious crime in real medieval France, though that bit looks more like a Felony Misdemeanor to a modern audience. If he had simply wanted her arrested and fairly tried, it would be difficult to fault him for that; it's his creepy personal vendetta that makes him the villain in that case.
I'm sorry but the way this is written comes off like he's trying to downplay how evil some of the stuff That Frollo does in the film is. They reak to me of bias here
openA repository of spam
On a glance at the largely abandoned liveblogs section, specifically the last page, https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/lbs.php?target_title=&target_group=&p=16
, It seems apparent that a good chunk of that particular page, at least half, seem to be comprised entirely of spambots posting and replying to one another. This is apparent just looking at the titles of some of these liveblogs, or looking briefly at their content. Notable among them include one apparently advertising some herbal scam labled "Vietnam medical material", as well as several from 2018 which are fairly self evident on looking at them.
openOdd example on DMOS/WebOriginal
I was bored, so I decided to look through the Web Original section of Dethroning Moment Of Suck, and found...this.
- Phionix Powers: Ok, i didn't want to start this, but why did TV Tropes axe the Real Life Tearjerker page? Some of the RL cuts, like Nightmare Fuel, I sort of understand, but there were many Heartwarming tributes to the deceased on the Tearjerker page. There was an entire line of Deviant Art tributes of Steve Irwin, for pete's sake! Maybe this is just my macabre self, but when we lose those we love, some of us need a bit of catharsis to see that the world cares. Yes, there were many personal anecdotes, and we can lose those, but funerals and such should remain. Please don't ban me.
This sticks out compared to other examples I read, and I'm very suspicious about it in general.
openEdit War in Super Smash Bros. Videogame
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=VideoGame.SuperSmashBros&more=t
Here's a courtesy link.
The troper Dragon Ranger keeps changing the words that describe Dragon Quest's Hero away from noting the "characters" represented. Officially on Twitter, Sakurai does mention he uses specific designs for the characters, while Smash itself does not actually use anything but Hero. We however don't have a release of the character at all. Do note more than one person is involved.
Relevant links;
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=VideoGame.SuperSmashBros#edit23510343
Changed but gave an edit reason as to why by Dragon Ranger. This should've been brought to the Discussion however.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=VideoGame.SuperSmashBros#edit23352709
Changed without an edit reason at all by Senior Cornholio.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=VideoGame.SuperSmashBros#edit23275323
This was beforehand by Dragon Ranger, also with no edit reason. Meaning that he didn't think to actually take it to Discussion at any point. I do not know if he has edit warred before.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=VideoGame.SuperSmashBros#edit23271822
Edited to input the names, by Ause.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=VideoGame.SuperSmashBros#edit23270942
Dragon Ranger is the first one to put the line. Which makes some of this jarring. This is more protecting the article than actually making a proper attempt at discussion.
openMisusing tropes, speculative troping, misquoting creators and using pages to vent/project
ThoughtComplex
has been leaving work for others to clean up. They often misuse tropes, most commonly on Jonathan Hickman's X-Men when it was created, when they were seemingly throwing anything on the page to fill it, which left work to clean up — they also engaged in speculative troping
, which had the same effect. When an entry they added was removed
, they re-added it under another trope
, obviously without checking that it was correct the second time.
They misused more tropes on the Jonathan Hickman's X-Men page that they created — which in and of itself is odd as the X-Men character pages are pretty neatly sorted for the most part, with individual works' character sheets usually linking to the main X-Men character sheet or the character's page at best — such as applying Ms. Fanservice to any female character that was drawn as attractive (which is the majority with one artist's style), even citing Male Gaze that doesn't exist.
They also used Dawn Of X as a place to vent, such as being insulted at the very IDEA of the X-Men sharing space with another franchise, which I changed when moving it to Jonathan Hickman's X-Men — they were also putting examples on the wrong pages for a while. They also added Soft Reboot on Jonathan Hickman's X-Men and said that a work was ignoring the 2010s comics — which they very clearly dislike — and referring to them in Broad Strokes... when the work was one issue old and referred to EVERYTHING in broad strokes because it's a first issue. They did the same on the trivia page.
Finally, they were massively misquoting creators to further their own speculation and project their own opinions as that of the creators. They said
Dawn of X was said to be tied to the X-Men in the MCU, which Hickman specifically said
his work wasn't. They said Hickman said
he hated the 2010s X-Men stories, which he makes no mention of based on a Google search.
It's been going on for a while but it seemed like it died down, but seemingly hasn't. Hopefully the links to specific edits works better for you guys, because I wanted to find specific examples because they edit these pages a lot.
Edited by FuzzyBarbarianopenCreator Killer
Shouldn't Creator Killer limited to the creator's works? The Laconic.Creator Killer say this.
The "or turn of events" was added in 2014.
I ask because this is recently added by SP Burke.
I were about to remove it on the ground that Creator Killer should be about work, but then noticed the laconic page.
Edited by KuruniopenComplainy entry of ArcFatigue Anime
Eternity Of Spirits added several entries to the YMMV page of Boruto, several of these were misuses which I removed explaining why in the comments. But this one in particular stroke me as overtly complainy:
- The manga in general is infamous for its very slow pacing, generally stretching out rather simple storylines out into multi-chapter arcs that last several months, often reiterating the same bits of information multiple times with little variance. Perhaps the most infamous example is Naruto's fight with Delta, where a single fight was stretched out for three months of real time despite relatively little actually happening in the fight itself, capped off by Delta self-destructing as a means of escape after being defeated, rendering basically the entire fight largely pointless. Many have said that the manga is still written under the idea of it being a weekly, even though the monthly release schedule means that the format and reader expectations are vastly different.
I originally reworded the entry to address that most of these issues are due to a monthly release, since if you read the manga back to back without waiting for the next chapter the pacing becomes better and many fans have said that the manga would be better if it had a weekly release. But they reverted it claiming that "I fail to see how being monthly excuses the poor pacing."
Any thoughts on this or is this just me?
openSomething that bugs me...is it kosher?
So I don't contribute on the Complete Monster or Magnificent Bastard threads, but I do lurk on them from time to time out of curiosity. And I've noticed a lot of times where the Complete Monster thread will start...discussing page images amongst themselves, and then adding the ones they like. This means they're effectively skipping the Image Pickin' process and doing it on their own, and right now they're apparently discussing changing an image
that was already kept by an IP thread.
I don't want to say anything on the thread itself, like I said, I don't post there and I'd rather not go and stir up drama on a thread my biggest contribution to has been to point out when an example was randomly removed by someone. But this doesn't sit well with me, and I'm not sure this thread...as popular and as good at getting consensus as it is... should be able to just skip Image Pickin' and discuss images on their thread itself.
Granted, in this most recent discussion they're acknowledging that the image they want to change has already been voted on and seem willing to get IP consensus as well... it's just unsettling to me that this discussion is happening there at all.
Again, I'm not trying to stir up drama, nor do I want people to get in trouble. It's just been bothering me for a while and I want to know if this is...okay. All love and respect to the people at the thread, ya'll are great, I'm just not sure this image thing you guys are doing is kosher. IP exists for a reason and no other cleanup thread ever just discusses images without the IP process, so...
open1001 Movies You Must See Before You Die
Literature.One Thousand And One Movies You Must See Before You Die was recently cut, the reason given being that "it's basically just a list of works without any commentary or anything otherwise tropable". There is precedent for such lists (AFIS 100 Years 100 Movies, BFI Top 100 British Films, The Criterion Collection, Empire The 500 Greatest Movies Of All Time, Time All Time 100 Movies, and Roger Ebert Great Movies List), and moreover I disagree that there is nothing tropable.
For those not familiar with 1001 Movies You Must See Before You Die, it is a book released annually since 2003 containing a list of 1001 movies with each entry accompanied by a short essay. It is a very popular list, both on this website and elsewhere. There is a List Challenge with over 50 000 users
, a wiki
, a subreddit
, innumerable IMDb lists, and a bunch of other places online, all dedicated to the list and watching all the movies on it. The list here on TV Tropes had over 1800 inbound links.
As for tropability, the book itself is a Doorstopper at 960 pages, the title is Exactly What It Says on the Tin, the selection of entries is subject to Cultural Translation (a certain number of entries are replaced with local entries in the translated editions), and the essays contain tropes (for instance, the essay for In the Realm of the Senses says that It's Not Porn, It's Art). There is already a YMMV.One Thousand And One Movies You Must See Before You Die page, and as noted above the book is subject to The Wiki Rule.
With all this in mind, I think the article should be restored. Being one of the people who aims to see all the films on the list, I personally found the list with links to all the films very helpful for navigation, and I suspect I'm not the only one. Adding a list of tropes pertaining to the list is not a tall order, it's just that nobody had done so.
openUnilateral Image Changes in Characters/SpongeBobSquarePantsRecurringCharacters
Troper Grojfan has unilaterally changed the images on Characters.Sponge Bob Square Pants Recurring Characters without going on the Image Pickin' threads for a discussion first. I already PMed them about it earlier today and they agreed to stop (only adding new images for characters who don't have them), but now I would like someone to revert the new images back into the old ones please? I tried doing it myself, but the original image URLs were lost in their other slew of edits, making them confusing to find.
Courtesy link here: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Characters.SpongebobSquarepantsRecurringCharacters
openDeleted Transgender Tropes for Re:Zero Anime
So a while ago I had asked if I should change the page of the character Felis Argyle from Re:Zero to make note that she is a transgender girl, which the story revealed in the prequel volume Ex.1 Dream of the Lion King, and the general consensus was that I should go ahead and do so, and to also cite the post in my reasoning.
I even have the page where she reveals it to the readers, in a scene where its revealed she's been praying to be a girl for six years. https://imgur.com/a/3pNo8Wo
Just right now I found that the character page was altered, by the user Domadordedios, removing any reference to Felis being Trans and gendering them as a guy. They also deleted the Transgender trope, in which this was written.
- Transgender: In the side novel focusing on her backstory, it is revealed that she been praying to be a girl for atleast six years, and is using magic to prevent her body from getting any more masculine. She also gets extremely uncomfortable in men's clothes and addresses herself using feminine Japanese Pronouns.
All of which is true and can be found in the story, mostly within the prequel volume.
The only reason they cite is "Misleading information" without anything else.
What should I do here?
openI'm not sure where to put this? Videogame
Mother 3 has a Player Punch entry that is way too long for its own good.
- Player Punch: A lot.
- In Chapter 1, in a series built around the protagonist usually having a close relationship with their mother during their adventure, it goes against the series expectations that Hinawa, Lucas's mother, is killed very violently.
- You then play the first chapter as Hinawa's husband, Flint. Upon finding out about her death, he goes into a terrifying Heroic BSoD, lashing out at other people in the village until he has to be knocked unconscious in order to be subdued. You then get the lovely experience of becoming Tazmily Jail's first prisoner.
- Claus, Lucas's twin brother, then goes out into the mountains to try and avenge Hinawa. He fails.
- As it turns out, the animal responsible for killing Hinawa was a Drago, a perfectly harmless creature Lucas used to be friends with. It's been "reconstructed" by a strange group of men wearing pig masks, making it aggressive and mindless.
- Oh, and who's in charge of all these Pigmasks? Why, Porky Minch, naturally.
- In Chapter 2, you play as a thief named Duster. And, let's just say, his father is not very satisfied by his thieving abilities.
- In Chapter 3, you play as a monkey named Salsa. He's getting routinely abused by a member of the Pigmask army named Fassad. He spends the chapter being forced to help them with their evil deeds, since his girlfriend is being held captive for leverage.
- In Chapter 4, three years have gone by. Let's just say, one of the biggest RPG cliches of all time has been... horrifyingly subverted.
- Then, at the end of the chapter, when the DCMC sing their goodbyes to "Lucky". It's for the greater good, but you'll feel really terrible for finally getting your last party member.
- Chapter 6. Lucas chases Hinawa's ghost through a field of sunflowers, which are associated with her. It ends with you essentially making Lucas attempt suicide.
- In Chapter 7, you find out about these Plot Coupons called the Seven Needles. Only Lucas and the commander of the Pigmask army, The Masked Man, are capable of pulling them. If Lucas pulls them, the world will be reborn anew and everything will be good and pure. If the Masked Man pulls them, the world will cease to exist.
- And, in that chapter, you manage to only pull three. The enemy ends up getting the rest of them.
- Then there's Tanetane Island. After washing up on the shore during a wreck, your party is weak, starving, and incapable of healing themselves. Since you lost all your items, you have no choice but to eat some funky-looking mushrooms off the ground. Let's just say, it ends very, very badly.
- Then, when you get back home, the town is almost completely empty. Everybody's gone to the big city, save for a few individuals.
- In Chapter 8, we meet up with a fellow named Leder. He was the bell ringer in Tazmily Village, and he never spoke a word to anybody. Now that Tazmily is gone and he has no other purpose in life, he reveals that pretty much everything you thought you knew about the world is a lie. The human race destroyed this world long, long before you started playing this game, and the tiny island you've spent the game on is the only habitable place left on Earth. There is hope, but now the entire world is resting squarely on your shoulders, and the odds aren't looking very promising.
- Then you meet the Pig King himself, Porky. He essentially gives the entire human species a "Reason You Suck" Speech. And considering what you just found out, it'll strike a few chords.
- Hey, remember that Masked Man guy? The one who's been pulling all the other needles and striking you down at any given opportunity, hellbent on bringing the world to an end? It's Claus. Lucas's brother.
- You can't defeat Porky. During the fight, he reveals that his constant abuse of time travel has rendered him immortal. At the end of the fight, he locks himself in a machine called the Absolutely Safe Capsule. However, it's revealed that, once he's in there, he can never get out. Ever.
- The final battle in the game is against the Masked Man. It may just be the most heartbreaking "I Know You're in There Somewhere" Fight ever executed. With your party knocked unconscious, leaving you alone, you cannot fight him. A battle implies a conflict on both sides, but Lucas can't bring himself to hurt his brother. All you can do is guard against his attacks, while a terrifying boss theme that rivals Giygas's in intensity assaults your ears. Forcing you to just try and survive blasts from your own iconic attack, slowly watch as your brother gets weaker until he can't even damage you anymore. And it ends with Claus using your always-dependable Franklin Badge that protects you to deliberately blast lightning so it will deflect back at him, with every intention of committing child suicide. All you can do is hear him apologize for his mistakes as he says goodbye... so he... he can be with his mother...
- The ending. There are no words to say, just the ending.
It's just listing the entire game. I'm not doubting that the game pulls punches on the player, but I think we should probably just have highlights of this item, rather every single time the game has a depressing moment.
Edited by PlasmaPoweropenFranchiseOriginalSin.StarWars Film
I want to start this by saying that locking or cutting a page should be used for worst-case-scenario pages only.
I've been trying to fix up FranchiseOriginalSin.Star Wars, and I've found that the page has many, many issues regarding the examples listed. It, of course, suffers from Complaining About Shows You Don't Like, as most Star Wars Audience Reaction pages end up like. Now, this in itself is a pretty fixable situation, because it's very similar to Narm.Star Wars, which we successfully cleaned out. Yes, it took months, but it was a satisfying conclusion.
But the Narm page was different, because that had 1-3 sentence examples that resulted in a simple cleanup objective of "remove misuse". It was very simple to fix the page. But with this page? No, my objective was to shorten the examples instead of cutting them. But the more I go into the page, the more I realize that nearly every example is a violation of Complaining About Shows You Don't Like, and it's frustrating. Just like Example Indentation or Zero-Context Examples, complaining is a fair reason to remove a bad example.
So here's the "Ask" part: What should be done with the page? If it's undeniably hard to fix, and just about every example is a heavy violation of policy, what can be done to help? I was thinking of maybe locking it, but it sounds too obstructive. Cutting is also an option if the cleanup proves unmanageable, but it's barely on the table.
So, what does the rest of the wiki think about the page?
openWhat an Idiot misuse?
WhatAnIdiot.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic has a folder for general examples. They're redundant With Talking Is a Free Action and Forgot About His Powers. And there's these two suspect examples:
- Equestria is a land of magic. Since magic is so prevalent, it comes as no surprise that many of its villains have figured out various ways to corrupt and/or neutralize it. Given the wildly conflicting personalities present within the Mane Six, it's not always guaranteed that they will be able to utilize The Power of Friendship until after the villain has already thrashed them, destroyed the countryside, filed the paperwork, and picked out a throne to begin his rule over Equestria. You'd Think: Our little ponies would maintain a proper military instead of relying on the untrained Mane Six, and then develop and utilize both magical and non-magical weapons and defenses. For example, outfitting Canterlot with point-defense cannons to guard against attacks by airship. Or, seeing as how every single pony with the word "princess" in her name is a priority target, posting snipers and armed security guards to cover every major event involving them. Or rocket launchers (with triggers big enough for hooves to pull) to blow Anti-Magic villains to pieces. Instead: They only ever fight using magical attacks and defenses (at many points after they've already seen that magic has zero effect on that particular villain), and rely heavily on The Power of Friendship and The Power of Love to save the day after the bad guy's all but won. You'd Then Expect: For at least one villain to just knock one or more of the Mane Six out. Problem Solved, Series Over. Instead: The villains just incapacitate them or break their spirits, an impermanent solution.
The level of violence and military logic for the former to work would be impossible to implement given the shows target demographic. I don't know of any other examples where solutions too outside the tone of the show to realistically consider are considered idiotic. The latter has the same problem as...
- While the magic of friendship is incredibly powerful, Twilight herself (unlike Rarity) has little fighting skills or experience. She's the most powerful magic caster in Equestria, but she fits into the bill of Unskilled, but Strong. You'd Think: While Twilight is giving a speech about friendship, the current villain would just confront her physically, knock her out, and abduct her away from her friends and/or the Villain-Beating Artifact, leaving her completely defenseless. Problem Solved, Series Over. Instead: While Tirek, Starlight, and Sunset DO confront Twilight physically, none of them bothers with the "abduct Twilight away from her friends or instant-win artifact" part. The only ones who do capture Twilight at different points are Queen Chrysalis (who also captured everypony else of importance) and Tempest Shadow, and even then only Chrysalis actually bothered with knocking her unconscious. Even then, refer back to the above passage to see how she failed to do the same with Starlight.
Nearly all those villains were those Locked Out of the Loop who didn't know who they are or their powers worked that way. Those who did know were those with the cunning or power such they successfully dealt with them all at once rendering that irrelevant. The described examples can go under the individual episodes/work.
Should those be removed? I also asked What An Idiot cleanup
but it looks fairly inactive.
openRepeated Trope Misuse and Edit Warring
On Characters.The Rising Of The Shield Hero, johnnysevens7 added And Then What? as an example, stating that even if one of the show’s antagonists had succeeded, then it was likely that things would have gone from bad to worse for themselves and the rest of the characters in the setting. I removed the example because it was Fridge Logic; this isn't a point being made within the story itself (the trope is when one character asks another what comes after their master plan and the schemer has no answer), it's a viewer's speculation about where the plot MIGHT have gone if the anagonist's plan had worked as they wished.
Two months later, jonnysevens7 re-added the trope with pretty much the same argument as before with no discussion. He has recently added another similar example stating the same thing about a different antagonist on the show.
As far as I can tell, Jonny is technically edit-warring and also ignoring both edit reasons as well as continuously misusing a trope.
Edited by NubianSatyressopenPossible Single Issue Wonk and unnecessary bashing on a recap page Live Action TV
On a recap page of a few episodes of Just Beyond, I have found two examples where the troper named Colleen seem to hate the same aseop about Be Yourself and True Beauty Is on the Inside. The third example is basically the op bashing Kim Kardashian for no reason. Here's the example (Bold part means I highlighted it):
In Just Beyond S 1 E 3 Which Witch
- An Aesop: Yet another story about how Being Yourself is more important than fitting in.
In Just Beyond S 1 E 5 Unfiltered
- An Aesop: Another story about how Beauty Is Bad and True Beauty Is on the Inside.
- I Just Want to Be Beautiful: Lily wants to be as glamorous and attractive to be boys as the popular girls in her school. When she gets the app that starts magically altering her face, she gets greedy and uses it more and more until her face looks like Kim Kardashian threw up on her.

I think https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/ProtonJon/
should return as it shows the personalities the co-coms use when commentating. They have been noted by Jon to act differently at cons. The personalities they show here are clearly in entertainer mode. Even his cat, Bagel, is usually not that desperate for attention as Jon usually doesn't talk to himself or ignore Bagel outside streams.
But I think https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/HoYay/TheRunawayGuys
should be removed. Jon finds it really creepy, and Chugga, while playing it up (because he thinks it's what the fan base wants), has admitted to finding it creepy too. They are real people with feelings, not some fictional characters you can play with the emotions of. Some people even got mad at Jon for dating Lucah because of this which is unacceptable.