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resolved Questionable Edit removal from Recap for Rick and Morty Western Animation
On December 18th, 2022, I added a "The Reason You Suck" Speech entry for the Rick and Morty episode "Ricktional Mortpoons Rickmas Mortcation".
- "The Reason You Suck" Speech: When Rick tries to leave after making the driller once Morty makes clear he doesn't want Rick coming with him to get the Lightsaber, Morty gets pissed at the idea Rick is acting like Morty betrayed him and not the other way around. Rick, thoroughly done with listening to Morty and wanting to just go back to hunting down Rick Prime, delivers a quick but succinct tear down of Morty, both for the events of the last episode, and his general treatment of Rick overall the last few seasons, with Morty treating him like shit despite Rick bothering to open up to him. Morty himself can only wince and look upset while he's listening up until Curtis reassures him he won't kill his family.
Rick: You wanna know why I replaced myself in the beginning of that stupid Knights of the Sun thing? I said don't take the fucking sword and you were like "whatever" like I'm our neighbor Gene or David Arquette or something. You called me boring. I've become dog shit to you. That's what happens when you let people in and they stop respecting you, they touch your shit, they screw things up, they kill your fucking family. Go ahead. Trust [Curtis]. You're going to learn the same fucking thing.
- 1. It's not presented as the way the edit reason states, namely since Rick had been keeping Morty out of his hunt for Rick Prime rather than forcing him to help, and Morty was acting like Rick was entirely at fault for not being honest. While an argument can be made for Unintentionally Unsympathetic, the fact of the matter is that it's not presented in the manner the edit reason suggests.
- 2. "The Reason You Suck" Speech is not a YMMV trope, meaning even if Mantyf does not see it as a speech but more a rant from an abuser, the trope itself is what matters. So if the entry is an actual case of "The Reason You Suck" Speech as presented in the show itself, removing it based on an interpretation feels like a mistake.
openEdit war on Captain Planet YMMV Western Animation
Last month, Sedaver added this
to Captain Planet and the Planeteers under Harsher in Hindsight. I removed it after taking it to the clean up thread
, noting in the edit reason that it violated the ROCEJ. Today, I found that they had readded it, with this edit reason:
This entry was meant to refer to the Capitol Riot itself, not Trump.
Edited by fraggleloveropen MainstreamObscurity Western Animation
YMMV.Sonic The Hedgehog Sat AM had this added by Eagle70:
"Mainstream Obscurity: [[invoked]] This is a Sonic The Hedgehog cartoon, the first one to ever enter production, and arguably the most ambitious. It was also put under strict mandates and heavily preempted in most markets, and cancelled in a network buyout, only to have the franchise completely change gears in 1996, leaving this cartoon looking like an In Name Only adaptation. Despite the popularity of it's long running comic book spinoff and the show itself getting significant
critical
acclaim
from most reviews, the cartoon itself is hardly watched by most of the fandom. Additionally, the notriously broken Sonic fandom has elements that tend to hate the show and it's characters for not resembling more modern titles, despite not really knowing anything about the show beyond the premise."
I feel like this could be shorted significantly and with less potholes and bashing at the end, but am not entirely sure what to do. What do you guys think?
EDIT: Also it kinda is an In Name Only adaptation; per InNameOnly.Western Animation, AoSTH was the closest to the games until Sonic X.
" Besides the overall theme of nature vs. machinery, the only things Sonic the Hedgehog (Sat AM) has in common with the games are Sonic, Tails (who was Demoted to Extra), the rings (which here act as a Deus ex Machina device), Buzzbombers (which only appeared in the pilot), and Robotnik (who looked quite different from his appearance in the games and was substantially more fearsome than any other interpretation of the character). This does not stop it from being one of the more highly regarded Sonic adaptations. "
Edited by lalalei2001open Potential Bias in Avatar pages? Western Animation
Okay, so K 2 Misfit has made two edits on Avatar pages that I find somewhat questionable. The first is on the YMMV page, under Franchise Original Sin :
And the second is under Fandom-Specific Plot:
Both seem to be editorializing somewhat. Now, in regards to the former, that's probably going to happen at least a little on the YMMV pages, but I still think they ought to reflect some sort of consensus, whereas this mentions a lot of specific issues that seem to be the troper's person opinions framed as a generally accepted "this is the way it should have been". Still, this is the YMMV page, so maybe I should be more lenient when it comes to opinions, but at least some of it seems like a stretch.
As for the latter entry, it seems to be going in a YMMV direction on a page that is not that. Certainly, a mention of fics that wish to further explore queer issues in the verse is perfectly fine, even mentioning that many do not feel that it was explored as well as it could be, but I don't think the somewhat accusatory tone of the entry is necessary. I think this entry deserves to stay, but it ought to be rewritten somewhat.
Thoughts?
openAdoredByTheNetwork/TeenTitansGo Western Animation
This page
of Teen Titans Go!, unsurprisingly has a lot of complaining in it. I was gonna clean it myself, but I can't even tell what examples should remain at this point.
resolved Should this deleted YMMV entry be restored? Western Animation
On Arcane's YMMV page, Damian Wayne deleted this "One True Pairing" entry
for the second time in a row even after a previous ATT thread
on this very same topic resolved itself with an overall consensus that it did indeed qualify as an example. This was the initial reason the troper gave for deleting it:
- "OTP indicates a ship that is universally beloved to the point there are no significant alternatives to it. A quick look on any fan site will show that this isn't the case for Ekko/Jinx.Not only does Lightcannon fan works keep getting updated, but most of the work featuring Jinx hardly feature her in a romantic relationship at all."
As what was already noted in the aforementioned ATT thread, the One True Pairing page does not describe a pairing that is "universally beloved" to the point where no alternatives exist. It simply describes a phenomena whenever there is a pairing within a work that is preferred by a group of fans above others, in-which the "Ekko/Jinx" ship qualifies for within the context of Arcane due to the wave of positive reception and fan art seen across social media (general critic and audience reactions, YouTube, Twitter, Tiktok, Reddit, etc.) after the debut of Season 2's final batch of episodes. There is no rule that states the existence of another ship disqualifies an OTP nor is there anything that bars qualification if the pairing also has detractors, which is part of the reason why Ship-to-Ship Combat exists.
I did attempt to message the troper to try and open up a dialogue over the deletion but they never made a reply. After waiting a couple of days, I restored the entry. But as I already mentioned, it was deleted again by the same troper. This was the new reason they gave alongside adding a No Yay entry in place of it:
- "I hope this new entry will finally put an end to this argument"
Out of a desire to avoid an editing war over a ship of all things, I wanted to get some outside opinions on the matter. Should the original OTP entry be restored? Or is there something I'm missing that warrants the example's deletion?
Edited by Killionaireresolved Is spoilering out an entire example fine with the spoiler policy? Western Animation
So I noticed on both WesternAnimation.K Pop Demon Hunters and YMMV.K Pop Demon Hunters that the same troper, ReginaldOgron5, edited two separate entries for the same reason: they're both completely
spoilered out
(though for the YMMV example I can at least understand a little more, with the Fan Wank explanation).
My concern is... there's multiple other completely spoilered out examples on both of those pages? And the thing is, not only are both of those examples not Self Fulfilling Spoilers, but they're also... actual spoilers that should be spoilered?
So I'm just wondering... is this correct? Is a completely spoilered out example fine?
Edited by EisneropenDisputing recent deletion (Invincible 2021: Spoilers) Western Animation
I had recently added the following example to the YMMV page of Invincible (2021):
- What An Idiot: Despite being shown to be a very competent team of heroes, several members of the Guardians of the Globe grab the Idiot Ball hard during their fight with Omni-Man.
- [[spoiler: The first thing Red Rush does when the fight starts is shove Immortal out of the way of Omni-Man’s sneak attack, saving Immortal’s life. Then when Omni-Man continues to attack, Red Rush counters Omni-Man’s speed by moving his teammates out of the way at the last second, frustrating Omni-Man.
- [[spoiler: Darkwing functions as the team’s Batman Expy, using stealth, gadgets, skill and intelligence to take out his opponents. He’s also just seen Omni-Man murder Red Rush.
These additions were deleted with the following justification:
My Little Xero: Simply doesn't fit, as we barely know anything about the character before their deaths, claiming that they're holding the Idiot Ball is simply inaccurate as we need to know their typical behavior to call it as such, in addition as we see when the Guardians fight the Mauler Twins, the tactics used the by the characters to fight Omni-Man are pretty much the same so this
Naturally, I disagree. For one thing, the part of editing reason is inaccurate, as the tactics used by the mentioned characters in a previous fight are different from the ones they used vs Omni-Man. Against the Mauler Twins (who are much weaker than Omni-Man), Darkwing actually maintained distance, uses his weapons effectively and did not try to drop kick either of them. Likewise, Red Rush only engages the Mauler Twins (who are both much slower than Omni-Man) in melee when Green Ghost immobilizes them. So in both instances, the heroes tactics were different in their fight with Omni-Man than they were with the Mauler Twins.
Beyond them simply not being as effective as before, the tactics in both cases are suicidally stupid. Literally so since it gets them both killed (along with other members of their team), and I feel What an Idiot was made for moments of that kind of stupidity, regardless of how little we might know about the characters in general.
Furthermore, a lack of knowledge of a character does not invalidate the use of What An Idiot listings. Taken directly from the What An Idiot page:
"Because most viewers have basic common sense, one would usually expect the same from characters on TV shows. Any negative deviation from such usually prompts a Face Palm and the comment "What an idiot!" or similar, hence the entry name."
The page also mentions that some characters are supposed to be idiots, but goes on to say how that does not invalidate including them in What An Idiot entries. It merely asks that you summarize such moments rather than list them all.
If it's specifically the inclusion of the Idiot Ball trope that makes this inaccurate, I can remove it. I have ZERO intentions of getting into any kind of an editing war, so I'd like other opinions on the matter, to make sure I'm not in the wrong or anything before I take any additional steps.
Edited by Ares101openFinding Nemo and Overprotective Dad Western Animation
I'm not 100% sure this is the right place to ask. My doubt isn't about the entry itself or its usage, but the correctness of this entry in YMMV.Finding Nemo that I find rather excessive:
- "Seinfeld" Is Unfunny:
- Marlin is the Trope Codifier of the Overprotective Dad trope mostly found in Western Animation. This has resulted in many other overprotective dads, like Dracula, Samson and Manny being seen as rip-offs of him.
openNo Edit Reason Western Animation
The four most recent edits of https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/el.php?findfor=cristian1234
have just been deletions without any edit reasons which I would have just contented myself on sending them a message if two of those edits weren't big edits and all of them didn't seem to have a discernible reason behind it.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.DarkwingDuck
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.DuckTales2017
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Funny.DuckTales2017Season3#edit27064396
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Funny.Ducktales2017Season2#edit27064636
openEdit War on The Dragon Prince Western Animation
There is a potential edit war brewing on The Dragon Prince YMMV page.
Antidragon has added these two points: Strawman Has a Point:
- In Season 2 Episode 7, Soren fires a ballista at the dragon preforming fly-bys on a local village, and later accepts that the resulting damage was his own fault for provoking it. Yet the humans had no idea what the dragon's objectives or motivations were, and the dragon itself had made no attempt to communicate with them (Even if it couldn't speak, as an intelligent species it could have at least tried). Knowing nothing of the dragon's intent, Soren had good reason to fear that the town-destroying juggernaut could change it's mind at any moment.
- Furthermore, said ballistas prove to be too inaccurate to hit the dragon; the town offered no threat to it whatsoever and nothing was preventing it from simply flying away. It's subsiqent attack seemed more a matter of spite than legitimate self defense, yet Soren still accepts the blame for the resulting damage.
- In Season 2 Episode 7, Soren fires a ballista at the dragon preforming fly-bys on a local village, and later accepts that the resulting damage was his own fault for provoking it. Yet the humans had no idea what the dragon's objectives or motivations were, and the dragon itself had made no attempt to communicate with them (Even if it couldn't speak, as an intelligent species it could have at least tried). Knowing nothing of the dragon's intent, Soren had good reason to fear that the town-destroying juggernaut could change it's mind at any moment.
- When Soren provokes the Dragon in S2 E7 by firing a ballista at it, said ballista proves to be no threat to the beast and nothing was preventing it from flying away. When it subsequently sets the town on fire, the show (and even Soren himself) treat the resulting havoc as his own fault, even though said dragon was apparently acting out of spite rather than self defense.
They were removed by Mr. Death and then Antidragon added them back.
openYMMV.MyLittlePonyTheMovie2017 Western Animation
SenorCornholio made very long entries to the YMMV page for the G4 MLP movie about They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot by outlining an entire alternate scenario for the movie/final battle, which i don't think is how that trope works, as well as a very long edit about Twilight's friends sucking with a lot of potholes.
"** The fact that Twilight's magic is completely limited in this movie ends up resulting in plenty of scenes where it could have helped them out, but didn't. As an example, after Twilight's screwing everything up and chewing out her friends results in her being captured, she could have stayed long enough to listen to Tempest Shadow's Villain Song, realized she failed friendship, used one of her various self-inflicted spells to escape (notice how the cage she's in only resists magic, but never prevents it), and declares that she'll save Tempest from what she became, all in time to meet up with her friends for the Final Battle, which also would have led to her realizing that friendship really did bring everyone together. It could have also resulted in a climactic battle with Tempest where Twilight tries to convince her that she's better than she thinks she is, leading to a Heel–Face Turn on her part like it does in the movie proper. But because she doesn't, she ends up as the Damsel in Distress that needs to be saved, and as an added kick in the teeth, her magic is stolen so she can't even try fighting anyway."
"** The Mane Five aside of Twilight can be seen as this, namely during their argument scene. Most of them did virtually nothing to help the situation involving Tempest Shadow and the Storm King get any better, either providing seemingly nothing or outright making the situation worse like with Rainbow Dash's impulsive Sonic Rainboom on Celaeno's ship, and especially Pinkie Pie's antics in Klugetown. And what's more is that they're exceptionally tongue-in-cheek about their screw-ups, like ruining several anthropomorphic creatures' homes and nearly getting five pirates and a cat man killed isn't a big deal. This leads to Twilight attempting to steal the Pearl of Transformation and arguing with her friends which, to be fair, the argument does make a point about how both Twilight and her friends messed up. However, after Twilight says her Wham Line, the five of them head off to leave Twilight alone, still fully aware that Tempest Shadow is after her, and only after she's captured do they go back to caring about her. When Twilight told Pinkie she'd be better off with without friends like them, maybe there was more truth to that statement than the writing staff realized."
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.MyLittlePonyTheMovie2017
In general the page also has stuff like "* What Do You Mean, It's for Kids?: Between the multiple examples of Getting Crap Past the Radar, a Downer Beginning with scary petrification, an Implied Death Threat, a Not-So-Safe Harbor where the heroes were almost Made a Slave, a depressing sequence of Canterlot's population enslaved, drowning (Robbie Rotten lampshades it here
), a severe Plot-Mandated Friendship Failure, and a Family-Unfriendly Disney Villain Death, it's easy for parents to wonder if this movie is appropriate for young children. Then at the same time, the show has done the same concepts many times before and still managed to hold a TV-Y rating, and the movie still manages to be as simple and sugary as well, so once again it all comes down to one's personal interpretation." which contradicts itself multiple times.
openMLPFIM Season 9 Fridge Horror Western Animation
Didn't know if I should ask this on the forum or here. Spoiler warning as this involves a plot twist for season 9 of My Little Pony Friendship is Magic.
Given that "Grogar" turned out to be a fake, should the following Fridge Horror entries about him be cut:
- Grogar is powerful enough to make Tirek, Chrysalis, and Cozy Glow, all top tier season-ender villains themselves, AFRAID... and he's NOT at full power yet!
- Considering how powerful Grogar is without his bell, the villain trio deciding to betray him by stealing the bell for themselves might be the only reason why Equestria isn't flattened to the ground.
- Instead of giving Grogar his bell, Tirek, Chrysalis, and Cozy lie to him and claim they were unable to retrieve it. Grogar seems furious at this, but he has shown in the past to be able to view previous events. What if he finds out about their lie later, or already knows about it and has plans to deal with his traitors later?
- Grogar makes it very clear that, even in his weakened state, he has far more power than the three of them combined. With the bell still there as far as he knows, what's stopping him from trying to go get it himself now that the others have at least learned to cooperate, only to find it missing?
- With the amount of power Grogar would have gained upon getting his Bewitching Bell back, who's to say he wouldn't have decided he doesn't need the others anymore? Even if he had other plans for them initially, he's far more likely to decide that should he learn of their betrayal.
openSome anvils needed to be dropped Western Animation
Are these examples on the YMMV.Jem page examples of Some Anvils Need to Be Dropped? The Jem pages in general have a lot of Weasel Words.
"**In Video Wars, Video explains that her career as a filmmaker is quite difficult, since she has to constantly work hard at maintaining her success. Despite everything, she doesn't give up on it and loves her work. This wasn't presented in an over-the-top, ridiculous sort of aesop, nor was it even the main message of the episode, but it acts as a nice way to tell kids that having careers and jobs are never easy, but if you love what you do and keep at it, it's all worth it. The show itself seems to be an example of that message; disregarding the animation, the staff obviously put a lot of effort into the characters and gave them distinct personalities, as well as working hard on the writing, music and fashion (seriously, though; how often do you see cartoon characters in different outfits? And if so, how many are so intricately designed?)
"**With the exception of Eric Raymond, Techrat, and Zipper, the writers made it a point that neither the Misfits or the Stingers were pure evil and had their soft sides (especially Stormer), and that there was a reason why they were like that. The Holograms weren't pure and had their flaws. This seems to say that people have multiple aspects to their personalities, and that even so-called perfect people have their hang-ups, and the worst offender might not be so bad given the chance. "
Edited by lalalei2001openArthur Western Animation
WJTaylor4, who frequently edits the YMMV.Arthur page really, really, really hates D.W. (and calls Arthur's parents by their first names even though they're rarely said in-show). Other oddities include a 'fandom rivalry' segment that's just fans of one thing picking on other fans. Plus grammar/spelling errors.
"Creator's Pet: Jane and David; being an educational 'toon, they're the "large and in charge" parents with no one calling them out for letting D.W. torment Arthur most of the time."
Fandom Rivalry: Ever since the rights to producing the show changed hands from Cookie Jar to Nine Story, the bronies have been picking on it and its fans. It appears that there are two groups of haters here- one being bitter about how Marc Brown chose to terminate Cookie Jar's rights and grant the rights to Nine Story instead of transferring the production rights to DHX (which is incidentally the company behind Fi M) when DHX bought up Cookie Jar, and another just sees Arthur as yet another show competing with Fi M for awards. It's easy to weed them out: those who dismiss Arthur for "not being as good since it changed production companies" fall into the former, while those that're downright condescending to the show (saying things like "You're/They're still making the show?" in a sarcastic tone) belong to the latter. "
" D.W.'s constant screaming and whining when getting on Arthur's case or when she's demanding something from others tends to get old pretty fast. D.W.'s voice in general even when she's not whining. "
"D.W. getting punched by Arthur and latere getting a swing smashed into her face, largely due to her being such an unlikable brat."
" D.W. throws a tremendous tantrum in "Arthur's Perfect Christmas" when she doesn't get the toy she wanted for Christmas, and spends several minutes screaming. It's honestly quite embarrassing especially since Dave and Jane don't do anything to stop their daughter. "
" The Tibble Twins are basically gender bender versions of D.W. and like D.W. they have no redeeming qualitiesJ who never get punished, and they're constantly roughhousing or arguing with each other."
" Take That, Scrappy!: DW finally getting punched out by Arthur in "Arthur's Big Hit". Also DW getting her face smashed in with swings by the Tibble twins in Attack of the Turbo Tibbles. "
" Unintentionally Unsympathetic: DW, in "Arthur's Big Hit" and in many, many others. Even in the episodes where she has some justifiable reason for being bratty, she tends to take it so far that it's impossible to sympathize with her. This is not made better by all the times she doesn't have an excuse, and just felt like being irritating - it makes her seem less like she's acting up because of the issue at hand and more like her already-horrible behavior is just being exacerbated by said issue. More than a few viewers cheered when the Tibble twins hit D.W. in the face with their swings in "Attack of the Turbo Tibbles", if only because she finally suffered some Laser-Guided Karma for all the crap she had pulled previously in the series. A number of viewers also cheered when Arthur punched D.W. for harassing him and then trashing his model plane in the aforementioned Arthur's Big Hit where in addition to being her usual annoying self she was stupid enough to think the model was a toy that could fly. It really says a lot for what a repulsive character DW is that even when she's attacked by a pair twins who are basically male versions of her the viewers actually cheer for the boys to rough her up. It also says a lot for just how lacking the boys are in redeeming qualities that their high point in the series is physically attacking a young girl the audience is expected to sympathize with but is so unlikable and repulsive that the boys violent actions against her are cheered and relished by the audience instead of being viewed as reprehensible."
Edited by lalalei2001openThe Simpsons Memetic Mutation Cleanup Western Animation
I'm looking at The Simpsons and I'm seeing that while all of the entries have notes next to them now, they still mostly consist of quotes with the explanation describing where they came from, rather than how they're actually memeworthy. I'm not knowledgeable enough about the show in detail to clean it up myself, unfortunately. I can verify from my own experience as a non-fan which quotes are definitely memeworthy, however.
Edited by AlleyOopopenDubious Trope Namers Western Animation
TropeNamers.The Simpsons lists Glove Slap and The Dog Was the Mastermind. Glove Slap seems like too generic a term to be named by The Simpsons, while TropeNamers.Video Games lists Silent Hill 2 as the trope namer. The Dog Was the Mastermind page itself says in the description that the Silent Hill 2 joke ending is the Trope Namer in the description and the video games folder, while also saying in the Western Animation folder that the trope is named after the Simpsons episode "Beyond Blunderdome". "Beyond Blunderdome" aired in 1999, while Silent Hill 2 came out in 2001. SimCity is also listed as the Trope Namer for Not in My Backyard!, while according to Wikipedia, the term dates back to at least 1980.
resolved Loud house memes Western Animation
Memes.The Loud House has some examples that come from fan works and not the show itself. Is this allowed?
openEdit War in the Code Lyoko Characters page. Western Animation
Georgie Enkoom listed an example of Freudian Excuse Is No Excuse in the Code Lyoko page, where he describes a character that tries to be The Atoner, but is rejected by the other characters. I deleted it due to mis-use, as the situation described is actually Heel–Face Door-Slam, and the entry itself has many points that seem to be based on speculation. However, Georgie almost immediately added it back with no edit reason whatsoever, and worse, he undid another one of my edits where I explain/hide a few Zero Context Examples, apparently out of spite.
It should also be noted that his edits
have some basic grammar errors. A few of his latest ones include:
"As a good guy, he dishes one to nine Creepers, who doesn't even touches him."
"He can throw his swords, but it doesn't guarantees that it will always hit."
Some of his other edits are also blanket statements:
"Half the Man He Used to Be: One of his preferred methods to devirtualize the Lyoko-warriors."
"Impaled with Extreme Prejudice: see Half the Man He Used to Be above."
I have fixed some of these, but given his reaction to my first edit, I wouldn't be surprised if the conflict escalated.
Edited by TantaMonty

Troper Rom Watt added back the Hero Antagonist example for Turning Red for the character Ming despite the majority of Ming’s actions not really coming off as heroic and more of a detriment to Mei’s (the main character) personal growth. Ming was an obstacle and a Karen who inconvenienced others with her selfish actions (she assaulted a security guard that was just doing his job and even destroyed a dome and risking lives all because Mei wanted to attend a concert). This doesn’t sound like a Hero Antagonist at all. She was far from heroic and she had to realize that she was the villain at the end of the movie. I wanted to delete the example, but I want to avoid an Edit War.
Edited by MsCC22