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openNon-YMMV tropes in YMMV pages Literature
YMMV.Xeelee Sequence has three objective tropes in its page, none of them are audience reaction or proper YMMV items.
- Always a Bigger Fish: The Transcendence would be considered as most franchises' god-like race and even they pale in comparison to the Xeelee, who themselves are losing against the Photino Birds. And even these two near-omnipotents are mere insects to the Monads. This trope also applies to out of universe as well, for the Xeelee series is often considered as the gold-standard of overpowered franchises that eclipses other 'traditionally powerful Sci-Fi franchises' such as Warhammer 40,000, The Culture, Ancient Halo and Gurren Lagann by several orders of magnitude. In fact, the amount of franchises that could stalemate or surpass the Sequence in scale could be counted on one hand.
- Cool Of Rule: Part of the reason the Sequence is so awesome is that all of the science is explained, and not just in a Hand Wave.
- Eviler than Thou: The Sequence is pretty infamous especially in versus forums for how atrociously dark and deprave it can get; often making Warhammer 40,000 look extremely PG and tame in comparison.
- Retcon: There's some inconsistencies across the series, mainly between the earlier novels and the Destiny's Children books. Some of it is simply the result of a lot more light being shed on the period between the fall of the Qax and the end of Ring, but (for example) the fact that Xeelee-style FTL drives function as time machines, including the ability to create paradoxes is only revealed in Exultant, when one would have expected it to be mentioned earlier.
While the Retcon and Cool Of Rule entry can be moved to Xeelee Sequence (although it seems like Cool Of Rule is starved of wicks), the rest look like shoehorns to compare with characters and factions from other works, not with characters and factions in the work itself. With that in mind, would it be alright to move Retcon to the main work page and to delete the rest?
openNo Title Literature
I just came across the page for the book Liar and it is absolutly covered in whitespaced spoiler tags. I've moved all the tags that were around the trope names onto around the text itself, but it is still looking far too tag heavy. I'm not familiar with this work myself, and I understand it has a sizeable twist halfway through, which the author has asked readers not to spoil, so I would be grateful if anyone has an idea on how to rewrite this to work with our spoiler policy. Or maybe we should just declare it spoilers off, and put a warning label at the top?
Anyone got any ideas, please?
openLiterature/Molesworth Literature
molesworth... The entire page reads like a Self-Demonstrating article. Said self demonstrating includes a ton a grammar and spelling errors. The Fanfic Recs and Trivia pages have the same problem.
openexample arguing with itself Literature
The Dune example under "Literature" on War for Fun and Profit is arguing with itself. I don't know anything about the series beyond half-paying attention to the movie and TV Tropes examples. Could someone who does know please fix?
openMore from Unbuilt Trope Literature
(The original entry is two bullets at the bottom of LONG list of "teen dystopia" sub-genre entry)
- The Hunger Games itself is a Trope Codifier for the YA Dystopia Novel note Though The Giver and Uglies both predate it, it started the trend more properly , and has many deconstructive elements, thanks to its author being very fond of deconstructor fleets. After all, the dystopia depicted isn't that much worse than the resistance, the Love Triangle is a ploy for attention by the villains, and most of the second book is spent exploring how the main character's psyche has been affected by the events of the first rather than a further adventure.
Ignoring how it's include as Trope Codifier (But is it? The note only claims it "started the trend more properly", not how it codifies the genre), the fact that it outright say "its author being very fond of deconstructor fleets" make me think it's more of "early deconstruction" than actual Unbuilt Trope.
Edited by Kuruniopen Potential complaining in YMMV of Do You Love Your Mom and Her Two-Hit Multi-Target Attacks? Literature
I had a look at the YMMV section of Do You Love Your Mom and Her Two-Hit Multi-Target Attacks? and the They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot entry seems more complaining about the premise than any neglected plot points.
* They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot: The very idea of exploring an Isekai setting based in an MMORPG is nothing new, but has the potential to be extremely deep and rich if the lore and write-up is done right. The actual novel itself, though, only seems to rely on the game as an excuse as to why the players are there fighting the monsters as they are. There is no exploration of the game mechanics, how players interact with them and the bearings they have on the plot at large à la Sword Art Online, and actual story content is threadbare and disjointed. It doesn't even really work as a game setting, as games have to have rules and balancing if they're to be fair and believable, while gameplay in the story is deliberately designed poorly to favor a subset of players for no discernible reason than a gag, which is the deconstruction of isekai protagonists being The Ace. Nothing would have changed plot-wise had all of the game-related aspects been removed, as their presence in the story is just fluff. In fact, removing the constraints of a game setting would give the author even more leg room to wiggle without breaking the audience's Willing Suspension of Disbelief, since it still has the makings of a standard isekai plot.Wanted input on what to do rather than get gung ho about deleting the example.
EDIT: Noticed the appropriate thread. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=16509479720A72263400&page=1
Best just close this already.
resolved American Girl - Ban Evader Literature
It looks like a recent editor, Peachy2023, was found to be a ban evader for another account and their edits were reverted on multiple pages they added to. However, I edited two American Girl character pages they added to to remove or correct some of these edits, thinking it was a new editor making the same mistakes: the Historical Character Page at American Girls Collection Historical Characters and Girls of the Year page at American Girls Collection - Girls of the Year. Does someone else need to come in and revert these edits from the evader, or can I remove the other remaining examples myself?
(edit because the name made a red link and linking the affected pages. )
Edited by Nethiliaopen (RESOLVED) nattery wall-o'-text on Sci-Fi Writers Have No Sense of Energy Literature
Half the Literature folder on SciFiWritersHave.No Sense Of Energy is currently comprised of a nattery, Example Indentation-noncompliant Wall of Text about the Incredible Cross-Sections firepower numbers controversy in Star Wars Legends (which admittedly I contributed to over a decade ago when I was young and stupid).
Fixing it would be a major change that I think probably could use some extra sets of eyes, but couldn't find a good cleanup thread for this to go in, so I figured I'd come here.
- In one of the Star Wars Legends technical manuals (now non-canon along with the rest of Star Wars Legends), a starfighter's main guns are about 1/200,000,000th the power of a capital ship's heavy guns, and yet starfighters still try to shoot at enemy capital ships like they can do more than annoy the enemy captain by obstructing his view out the bridge. The series that book belongs to throws out words like kilotons for starfighter weaponry, megatons for Slave-1's weaponry, hundreds of gigatons each shot for capital scale weaponry, and the latter being powered by reactors with the energy output of a star. All this for weapons which, for the films that they're detailing, display yields that rarely stack up to the more extreme episodes of MythBusters and are outdone by modern heavy cruise missiles. The light ion cannons the size of mortars on the Invisible Hand are supposedly throwing out as much heat as a 4.8 megaton thermonuclear bomb, which is strange when compared to the Hoth Ion cannon, a weapon that disabled an Imperial Star Destroyer in a handful of shots and yet didn't produce enough heat to melt the surrounding snow. In general, you could probably knock off about six orders of magnitude on anything written in those books and you'd still get way too much. Supposedly, these represent the maximum yields, but because nothing like these figures occur in the movies and there are multiple times when using even a percentage of these maximum yields would prevent ship-wide destruction, where do these numbers come from?
- In general, all of the Star Wars films basically depict combat as being World War II IN SPACE!. This extends to firepower. Fighter cannons can hit the ground a few meters from foot soldiers without harming them, while main gun batteries on capital ships seldom display effects beyond a few tons of TNT- which is roughly in line with World War II era battleship guns, albeit with a higher rate of fire and effective range. There's even a famous scene in Return of the Jedi where the kinetic energy (plus whatever explosives were still on-board) of a crashing kamikaze fighter was able to cripple a Star Destroyer by destroying its bridge, something that would be completely impossible if these things were routinely trading shots with ships capable of depopulating a planet with a single salvo. These numbers have been made even more ridiculous in hindsight by material that came out after the Disney buyout. For example, the Last Jedi art book depicts a strategic-scale (i.e. orders of magnitude more powerful than regular guns) plasma bomb carried by the Free Virgillia-class corvettes as being the size of a building... yet "only" having a 100 megaton yield (which makes these bombs, per area, less efficient than the Tsar Bomba). For reference, by Saxton's old numbers, any single Acclamator-class ship (which are the size of heavy cruisers) had 12 turbolaser cannons each capable of dishing out 200 gigatons per shot. So basically, a ship not much bigger than the Virigillia-class could dish out 2,400 gigatons or the equivalent of 24,000 strategic-scale plasma bombs, every second, continuously. Imagine that every ship in the U.S. Navy had an autocannon that shoots the equivalent of 24,000 nuclear missiles a second and you start to see how ridiculous this idea is.
- However, the author of these works, Dr. Curtis Saxton, is an astrophysicist and so by any right should have a very good understanding of the yields being described. Unfortunately, there is controversy surrounding the author's relationship with those in the online "versus debate" community, which, if true, would mean that the author didn't so much screw up the math as deliberately misrepresent it. Another scientist and Star Wars fan/contributor, Gary Sarli, analyzed Saxton's work and came to very different conclusions. Particularly one of Saxton's most influential calculations, which not only vastly overestimated how much damage needed to be done to fulfill a certain operation ("Base Delta Zero", glassing a planet, in other wordsnote A big part of Sarli's argument pointed out that the original description in the Imperial Sourcebook limited itself, relatively speaking, to wiping out the planet's assets of production, like factories, arable lands, mines, fisheries, and all sentient beings and droids, which, while on a planetary scale is definitely impressive, wouldn't necessarily mandate slagging literally everything on the surface or vaporizing the oceans unless the commander was in a particularly vindictive mood, nor would it have to do so by itself, in under an hour. For context, the entire world nuclear arsenal (more than enough to wipe out all major cities and industry) totals 1.5 gigatons. Ten times that number should easily be able to kill nearly every human on Earth. Melting off all the Earth's crust and vaporizing all its oceans, on the other hand?
7 exatons or 7,000,000,000 gigatons.).
- And on the third hand, proponents of the ICS numbers point out that they are several orders of magnitude less than what you'd get simply by down-scaling from the Death Star, which has been calculated from screen evidencehow? Measure how long it took the planet to double in diameter after being shot (0.83 seconds), and do the math assuming Alderaan has the same properties as Earth. For the math, see these
links
. to produce a minimum of 1E38 joules, roughly the energy that the Sun produces in eight thousand years when firing a planet-busting shot. That puts the Empire well into Type II on the Kardashev scale. By the same token, there are those who think that Saxton did the above calculations and then gave their shipboard weapons numbers that he would have expected a Type II civilization to have. Of course, both the EU and the new Disney continuity specified that the Death Star's power came from Kyber crystals, making its showing completely irrelevant to anything that doesn't also use Kyber crystals.
- And critics will counter that there are a lot of weird effects for that to be purely a brute-force weapon, like the existence of a two-stage explosion and a Planar Shockwave. And since the Death Star novel came out, they've either retconned or clarified that the superlaser uses an exotic reaction that causes large parts of the planet to shift into hyperspace (presumably in a violent manner, since vessels with hyperdrives can do so without exploding), causing the planet to blow itself up.
- (separate unrelated example about Vulture droids I added yesterday)
- Star Wars Legends:
- The Incredible Cross-Sections reference books for the Star Wars prequel trilogy, written by physicist Dr. Curtis Saxton, became quite controversial for giving energy numbers that to some readers appeared to be wildly out of scale with the film special effects: for example, maximum yields of 200 gigatons on the turbolasers of Acclamator-class troop transports (Attack of the Clones) and 10 teratons for Venator-class star destroyers (Revenge of the Sith). Saxton was even accused at times of making up inflated numbers to help Star Wars "win" the Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny with Star Trek (he was a participant in sci-fi debating groups on the Internet at the time the books came out). Other debaters argued that some of his calculations were rooted in faulty assumptions, for example that the Orbital Bombardment involved in a Base Delta Zero operation wasn't intended to be at the Earth-Shattering Kaboom level a la Exterminatus, but just to destroy population centers and military sites. The argument was ultimately rendered moot when the Legends continuity was ended.
- (unrelated Vulture droid example)
- The Incredible Cross-Sections reference books for the Star Wars prequel trilogy, written by physicist Dr. Curtis Saxton, became quite controversial for giving energy numbers that to some readers appeared to be wildly out of scale with the film special effects: for example, maximum yields of 200 gigatons on the turbolasers of Acclamator-class troop transports (Attack of the Clones) and 10 teratons for Venator-class star destroyers (Revenge of the Sith); the latter number is about 10% of the estimated yield of the Chicxulub meteorite impact. Saxton has shown where his calculations came from: primarily the Death Star's destruction of Alderaan, the concept of Base Delta Zero from West End Games' Imperial Sourcebook, and shots from The Empire Strikes Back of star destroyers blowing up asteroids said to be nickel-iron in Alan Dean Foster's novelization; however, other debaters such as Gary Sarli have questioned some of his underlying assumptions. The whole thing was ultimately rendered moot after Legends was decanonized, with the efficacy of Orbital Bombardment in particular dramatically scaled down in Disney canon reference books.
Third draft:
- The Incredible Cross-Sections reference books for the Star Wars prequel trilogy, written by physicist Dr. Curtis Saxton, became quite controversial for giving energy numbers that to some readers appeared to significantly inflated compared to the film special effects: for example, maximum yields of 200 gigatons on the turbolasers of Acclamator-class troop transports (Attack of the Clones) and 10 teratons for Venator-class star destroyers (Revenge of the Sith); for reference, the latter number is about 10% of the estimated yield of the Chicxulub meteorite impact
. Saxton has shown where his calculations came from;note primarily the Death Star's destruction of Alderaan, the concept of Base Delta Zero from West End Games' Imperial Sourcebook, and shots from The Empire Strikes Back of star destroyers blowing up asteroids said to be nickel-iron in Alan Dean Foster's novelization however, other debaters such as Gary Sarli have questioned some of his underlying assumptions.note e.g. whether "Base Delta Zero" involves glassing an entire planet For the Evulz or just destroying mission-critical population centers Due to his author's notes thanking various members of online "versus debating" communities, Saxton has also been accused of deliberately inflating his numbers to "win" arguments over whether Star Wars factions would beat Star Trek factions in a war.
- The Incredible Cross-Sections reference books for the Star Wars prequel trilogy, written by physicist Dr. Curtis Saxton, became quite controversial for giving energy numbers that to some readers appeared to significantly inflated compared to the film special effects: for example, maximum yields of 200 gigatons on the turbolasers of Acclamator-class troop transports (Attack of the Clones) and 10 teratons for Venator-class star destroyers (Revenge of the Sith); for reference, the latter number is about 10% of the estimated yield of the Chicxulub meteorite impact
openUnfinished subpages Literature
Characters.Alex Rider was split into multiple subpages, but the creator of the subpages hardly bothered to move content that used to be in the main character page to their appropriate, respective subpages.
I'd fix it myself, but I'm uncertain which goes where as I haven't actively kept up with the series in a long while.
Subpages:
Edited by Tenma-YuukiopenWhat's in a name? (and a blank page) Literature
Hey everyone.
I wanted to create a fan fiction page for a story that I really enjoyed, and I'm thoroughly looking on the How to Create a Works Page. But for the life of me I can't find a good blank page to write on.
I'm not asking anyone to do this job for me, but where can I find one? Or do I create one by myself.
Thanks.
openDoes this fanfic example even exist? Literature
So, in the "The Reason You Suck" Speech page, specifically the section for crossover fanfics, there are two fics that confuse me: Fire & Ice, a crossover between Frozen and The Hobbit, and The Transformers My Little Pony Crossover 2, a crossover between... well, you know. Now, if you look at the examples each fic gives, you'll notice that both speeches are practically the same thing, even ending on the whole "You will die for wasting my time". Now, the thing that confuses me is that, whereas the MLP/Transformers fic has a link to the fic itself, Fire & Ice doesn't, so I have no idea to confirm whether or not it exists.
openWhen is Spider-Man and Superman gonna get a self demonstrating article Literature
Question supes and spidey had one, but now they dont could this change one day?
openFire and Blood Designated Hero Literature
I feel like the YMMV for Fire and Blood calling Jaehaerys a Designated Hero is wrong and should be removed because 1) Jaehaerys did plenty of legitimately great things for Westeros. 2) It was Baelon who let Alyssa humiliate Vaegon in the training yard. 3) Jaehaerys sending Vaegon to the Citadel was something Vaegon himself was happy to do. 4) Saera and her male consorts were legitimately awful people and Jaehaerys treated his daughter very well until he learned of her many misdeeds. 5) Jaehaerys had a good argument as to why trying to bring back Saera from Lys would cause nothing but trouble and correctly guessed that his daughter wanted nothing more to do with her family. 6) Arranged marriages like the ones Daella and Viserra had are commonplace amongst Westeros nobility. And 7) Westeros is an inherently male oriented culture and Jaehaerys passing over Rhaenys as his successor, while sexist, would be the expected choice for him to make.
Edited by ChubzhacopenRed links to the Back to the Future novel Literature
Lately, I've been seeing links to the article for George Gipe's novelization of Back to the Future as a Red Link, like so. However, the page itself is still intact. Worried about the page being cut, I took no chances and moved all of the examples from that page to the page for B to the F: The Novelization of the Feature Film in case. I checked the Recent Cuts page
, but it's not there. I checkd the Cut List page
, but it's not there either. Can someone tell me whether it's actually being cut or not?
openCreate parent universe trope? Literature
I built the Threadbare and Small Medium entries regarding series by Andrew Seiple set in the common universe of Generica Online. I occasionally find myself copy-pasting entries to both pages when I find a trope common to the universe in general. To use a mildly trivial example, the world has an in-universe Cap on class levels (due to the world being associated in some way with an MMORPG) that has in-story effects. I could list that the cap exists on both works pages, but it seems to make more sense to put it on a Generica Online page.
open AdmiralDT8 vandalising a page. Literature
A user going by the name AdmiralDT8 has vandalised Loyalty Among Worlds and deleted the YMMV and the Trivia articles for that fanfiction. It is unknown if this is really AdmiralDT8 himself doing this or the work of a troll. If it turns out to be the former, then this is a funny case of Dear Negative Reader
Profile here:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Tropers/AdmiralDT8
resolved Cold Duke of the North trope? Literature
Since really getting into Korean webtoons in the last two years, there's a certain character archetype that shows up in like 90% of romantic fantasy novels and I'm surprised it isn't here yet so maybe I've just missed it. Its become so common that people have even made jokes memes about him and different series have started calling the trope out even when playing it straight.
That man is the Cold Duke of the North! He has short black hair cut, red or blue eyes (and if they're red its distinct to either himself or his family), and a love for black clothing with bits of jewelry hanging off. He is also known for being an *incredibly* well-built hunk of man meat and yes we the reader will always see him with his shirt undone or off at some point to make sure we know how stacked he is. Despite appearing emotionless to everyone around him, his heart will thaw usually on first sight when he sees our lovely lady protagonist, who he will remark is "interesting." The guy has a tragic past and a reputation as a cold-hearted butcher of the battlefield, and his northern domain is akin to Winterfell in both temperature and regular monster invasions which he has take point in fending off for the rest of the Empire. His cold demeanor means a significant chunk of the story involves communication problems in the central relationship with the female lead that any normal person could resolve through a five second conversation. Also it means the vast majority of stories starring one of these fellows as the male romantic lead features a contract relationship at the center of it that everyone thinks the female lead is bonkers for entering into because of his fearsome reputation.
Do we not have this a trope that already covers this specific main character archetype?
openCan I trope my autobiography? Literature
I'd like to create a trope page for my self-published autobiography Andy's Nature: Asperger's, Obesity and the Supernatural. Would this be allowable? If so, could I link it to my You Tube channel? The channel is linked to my website, which in turn is linked to the book's Amazon page, and I understand commercial links are forbidden on TVT.
open"Meta" Take A Third Option Literature
Not even sure where such questions belongs, so asking here. Let's start with a backstory, cause I likely wouldn't be able to explain properly without it.
Two writers, both writing about the same topic (let's call them Alice and Bob for now) were arguing about one element of Alice-created world, which Alice considered "unavoidable evil", and Bob considered, basically, Moral Event Horizon.
They chose to dispute it by writing a short story (a non-canon crossover between their worlds), with each side taking turns and writing their parts from their characters' point of view, and defending their position. They never came to an agreement and... let's just say, those two are no longer friends.
But some time later, another author (let's call him Charlie) came to Alice and offered to write another short story, where that issue finally was resolved... by Taking a Third Option to the original conflict. Even "Alice" himself calls it such on his site (where he hosts all his works).
And here comes the issue. As far as I understand, "meta" examples aren't allowed at all? But in that case, what other way it may be mentioned? Aforementioned conflict and finding an alternate solution to it is the entire reason why the short story was written in the first place, but they don't share continuity.

In The Scum Villain's Self-Saving System: Ren Zha Fanpai Zijiu Xitong, the protagonist, originally named Shen Yuan, transmigrates into a character named Shen Qingqiu, and from then on is referred to as Shen Qingqiu, including in his own thoughts. So in the story, he's called Shen Qingqiu like 99% of the time. I've noticed that the article for The Scum Villain's Self-Saving System: Ren Zha Fanpai Zijiu Xitong uses both names, but Shen Yuan more often than Shen Qingqiu. I feel like it would be better to use Shen Qingqiu by default and only use Shen Yuan when referring to his past life as the novel does. Would it be okay for me to make these changes?