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resolved Edit War on YMMV for Codes and Geass: Embracing Your Inner Megalomania
On April 12th, 2021, while reading the forum on Questionable Questing for the fanfic "Codes And Geass: Embracing Your Inner Megalomania", I came across a user under the belief that the author of the fic, Tropers/Trickster_Priest, was applying Ron the Death Eater to the characters of Nagisa Chiba and Shogo Asahina.
- Ron the Death Eater: Like many other fanfics, Chiba and Asahina fall victim to this. Contrasted with canon where, while the two are shown more distrustful of Zero after he abandoned them during the Black Rebellion and appeared unapologetic when he returned, and only betrayed him when given sufficient evidence to suggest he crossed the line, the Geass Order massacre for Asahina and the doctored evidence Schneizel provided for Chiba, here they are depicted as disloyal and belligerent from the outset, not helped by Trollouche going out of his way to antagonize them. For specifics though:
- Asahina is made out to be against Trollouche's leadership from the start, to the point he secretly aids an attempted coup d'etat and alliance with the Chinese Federation, and then subjected to a Uriah Gambit as punishment, said gambit resulting in his death due to Kewell emerging in the Siegfried.
- Chiba regularly badmouths Trollouche, stirred up unrest against the Britannian members of the Black Knights, and attempted to convince Tohdoh to stage another coup while Trollouche was comatose, only failing because Tohdoh had Undying Loyalty to Trollouche and C.C. was listening in, the latter of whom Chiba attacks upon discovering her listening in, only for C.C. to nearly kill as a means of putting the fear of god into her, and only spares her due to Tohdoh promising to kill her himself if she continues her treasonous behavior.
- Butt-Monkey: Ohgi, Asahina, and Chiba all are on Trollouche's shit list because he remembers who was responsible for the betrayal in canon.
- The Chew Toy: Trollouche goes out of his way to provoke people he doesn't like, particularly Chiba and Asahina of the Four Holy Swords. YMMV as to whether he's justified in blaming them for the events of the original timeline or not.
- Rather than step on landmines by commenting in the forums Trickstar Priest, I will just put this here: you are bashing Chiba and Asahina like many other fanfic writers. And remember, please don't remove this just because you disagree.
After adding it, Tropers/shadowwolf75 decided to immediately remove it, their edit reason being:
- Hi, I'm not trickster and you are still wrong; the difference here was Lelouch being more aggressive in calling it out because he remembered they were trouble before, they had NEVER liked him in canon and fucked him over later, and thus it does not fall to the extremes of Ron The Deatheater
- This is a YMMV trope. There are users in the forum who see this to be the case as they call out Trickster Priest for bashing. Just because you disagree doesn't mean you can remove a subjective trope, since you are only a single person. Take it up with trope repair threads if you absolutely must. Otherwise, remove it again, it's officially an Edit War.
While that initially appeared to be the end of it... Trickster Priest edited the page themself using the fact they were the author as justification in blatant defiance of "The Fic May Be Yours, but the Trope Page Is Ours". They additionally accused me of being anirock and doing this just because they didn't agree with "me".
- I however, am Trickster. And you are misrepresenting the situation and ignoring the nuances. And pulling this because I disagreed with your interpretation in the thread on QQ is especially galling.
This has escalated into a full out Edit War, and rather than do something stupid like restore the entry again or argue with Trickster Priest, I decided it prudent to take the matter to ATT, as Trickster Priest is blatantly ignoring Administrivia, and this is not the first time they have done so. And rather than argue as to why the trope doesn't apply, they instead accuse me of misinterpreting things and being a sockpuppet account for a different user with similar objections. So I am requesting ATT to step in to resolve this dispute.
Edited by RebelFalconopenWeapon of Choice
This is a question about policy, not a specific example. We have Weapon Of Choice and a load of subtropes relating to specific weapons. If a character has a preferred weapon, what trope should be put on the character page - Weapon Of Choice itself, or the relevant subtrope?
openexample arguing with itself Literature
The Dune example under "Literature" on War for Fun and Profit is arguing with itself. I don't know anything about the series beyond half-paying attention to the movie and TV Tropes examples. Could someone who does know please fix?
openMore from Unbuilt Trope Literature
(The original entry is two bullets at the bottom of LONG list of "teen dystopia" sub-genre entry)
- The Hunger Games itself is a Trope Codifier for the YA Dystopia Novel note Though The Giver and Uglies both predate it, it started the trend more properly , and has many deconstructive elements, thanks to its author being very fond of deconstructor fleets. After all, the dystopia depicted isn't that much worse than the resistance, the Love Triangle is a ploy for attention by the villains, and most of the second book is spent exploring how the main character's psyche has been affected by the events of the first rather than a further adventure.
Ignoring how it's include as Trope Codifier (But is it? The note only claims it "started the trend more properly", not how it codifies the genre), the fact that it outright say "its author being very fond of deconstructor fleets" make me think it's more of "early deconstruction" than actual Unbuilt Trope.
Edited by KuruniopenCharacter Agenda-Based Editing? Live Action TV
Civil War is known for being a film with a very strong Broken Base, and Melbell 18 made several edits
to Captain America: Civil War that seem to be biased in Tony Stark's (himself a massively Base-Breaking Character who is notorious for inspiring Draco in Leather Pants and Ron the Death Eater reactions) favor.
Do I have permission to reword the language and remove some of the more accusatory changes?
Edited by AlleyOopopenJHD's impatience
I've avoided an ATT report because this has been largely restricted to the fora, but nothing has really happened after two hollers, so I figured it's worth another report.
JHD has a habit of impatience in the Projects fora, which results in them either berating people for not focusing on what he considers important (without taking any initiative himself) or taking unilateral action despite a lack of consensus. Some examples:
- In the So Bad It's Horrible cleanup, they kept asking if we should remove some listicles from Horrible.Other and the Music subpages. The discussion didn't reach consensus, but when their attempt to revive it was overlooked, they just removed the lists unilaterally
instead of just reviving the discussion. (They did eventually make a spinoff thread to properly discuss the issue.)
- In the Deader Than Disco TRS, they got snappy
about not receiving constant updates on how many wicks were left, despite that being visible from the Related tab. Note that they weren't really doing much wick cleaning themself.
- They've had a history of impatience in the Wick Check Project especially. Their early posts in the thread were first a lot of double-posting about their progress
doing a Deader Than Disco wick check, and once they decided they weren't good at doing wick checks, they got fairly pushy
about us doing that wick check (they've admitted that changing that trope was the main reason they joined the site). Then after deciding they didn't have time to work on the Ho Yay wick check (which is fair enough), they were still ignorant
about exactly how to fix the trope despite previous failed TRS threads, which again, is fair, as they can't solve everything. But they seem very reluctant to even try. And now today they just tried to cutlist the newer Ho Yay wick check
because "It's dead, and will never go anywhere" despite nobody else giving up on the effort and people working on numerous other threads at the same time. Once again, they just decided to make a decision based on their own feelings about a situation rather than actually discuss an issue properly.
He was brought up earlier
for his somewhat judgmental ATT questions, but I didn't think it was that big of an issue because he seemed to be listening. But he's still continuing to be disruptive, even after multiple warnings to stop this hasty behavior. Their role in the projects is less contributing to the effort and more yelling at other tropers to contribute because they gave up on trying to help, despite the fact that these are collaborative efforts and we've given him many tips on how to contribute.
openFunny Moments
Can Funny Moments for a comic also include funny commentary from the creator's personal weblog, or does it have to be in the comic itself?
openConcern over Winnie the Pooh's Home Run Derby Videogame
While helping with the That One Boss and That One Level cleanup
, I came across some questionable examples on Winnie the Pooh's Home Run Derby, and in the process I've found myself concerned about the page and its subpages in general.
I had no doubt the reason the game even had a page was because of the general Surprise Difficulty reaction it gets, but the memes of how hard it is - and the demonization the pitchers got as a result - have bled into all but one subpage, even though difficulty aside, it's a simple Winnie-the-Pooh game with no plot.
My main concern is how I should deal with this. Like I said, the issues are quite prominent, but I'm worried about if the pages aren't big enough to warrant a thread on Projects: Short Term, and what I should do instead if they aren't.
Edited by BrashBusteropen Disproportionate Retribution
So Ferot_Dreadnaught has been removing a bunch of examples from DisproportionateRetribution.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic on the grounds that it needs to be In-Universe or intentional. The problem is that the trope itself never states that it needs to be In-Universe or intentional only that some for retribution to be disproportionate to what happens. So I don't think that these removals are valid.
Edited by Ordeaux26openCreator vs Web Video
I've asked this several times but never got a definitive answer. Should Creator.Ryan George be moved to WebVideo.Ryan George? It's only troping his Youtube channel (which is also titled "Ryan George"), plus the only other work he's done with its own page is also web video work.
I have a similar question about the Creator.Pro ZD page, as it's largely troping his web video sketches, but unlike Ryan George, SungWon Cho is a creator with works in multiple namespaces since he's also a voice actor. However, his videos are eligible for YMMV items that a Creator page usually shouldn't have. So what would we do in this case? Keep it as one page or split Creator.Sung Won Cho for the actor himself and WebVideo.Pro ZD for his skits?
openSlightly suspicious troper Videogame
jamesalan
added a link to an unofficial web port of Five Nights at Freddy's 1 (hosted on y9freegames.com) on the Five Nights at Freddy's Franchise page. This edit strikes me as a bit odd because:
- It's an unofficial link, on a page about the official work.
- The link itself just reads "Online gameplay link" and is thrown in the middle of the spin-offs section of the page, on top of using the wrong formatting (a dash instead of asterisk for a bullet point), which has a bit of a spammy feel.
- Almost all of that troper's edits consist of adding links to web games.
I removed the link since it was out-of-place, but this incident makes the whole y9freegames site seem suspicious to me. The troper added another link to that site on Happy Wheels, which I'm not sure if it's OK or not.
openPage ownership issues and rudeness Webcomic
PrincessPandaTrope and I are the only two people who frequently edit the page for the Sonic the Hedgehog fan comic Ghosts of the Future. I'm starting to understand why nobody else wants to edit the page. She keeps sending me PMs after I edit, saying that she's "very disappointed with" me for not phrasing things exactly the way she wanted.
One example would be my latest edit, where I removed the word "very" from a lot of edits, since it's a word that usually doesn't do any good. Saying "the house is very big" doesn't actually give you any more exact info about how big the house is than if you just say "The house is big."
She PMed me and said that I should have replaced it with a more descriptive adjective instead, without explaining why she couldn't do that herself.
She also said that I was giving the middle finger to the comic's creator, Evan Stanley, by replacing "very [adjective]" with a plain "[adjective]". She said that I was misleading people about the content of the comic this way—as if I had changed an exact measurement to one less exact or accurate.
And then there's the time when she asked people to cut down the wall of text
in one entry, and then when I did that, she asked me to explain why I deleted things
. I tried to be polite, but I wondered why she even asked for help if she expected people to follow rules she never bothered mentioning.
(Then, in an act of Edit Warring, she put back things I'd taken away.)
It feels like she's decided that my only task is to fix the grammar and spelling mistakes she keeps making again and again. It also feels like she's got this idea of how the page must be written that she assumes everybody else knows and she therefore chooses never to tell people about.
To be frank, she's acting like she's Knuckles the Echidna and the GotF page is a Chaos Emerald. ('Cause she's acting like its guardian, geddit?)
Short version: This troper is rude, keeps edit warring and has page ownership issues, and it's getting very tiring.
Edited by MichaelKatsuroopenYMMV page turned into self-demonstrating
Recently, the YMMV page for Darkseid was completely rewritten to be from his POV. I'm pretty sure this was done because he recently got his own Self-Demonstrating page and the YMMV was changed as a result.
However, we've been trying to stop self-demonstrating writing from leaking to the subpages (such as the clean-up we had for Deadpool). Since this is recent enough, can we get a page revert to how it was a few days ago?
openWMG page that unabashedly disregards ROCEJ
I thought the WMG entry I brought up yesterday
was bad. The WMG page I came across today make that one seem tame by comparison, and there's a lot more than just one entry. Examples include:
- Hoping the entire cast will die, then being disappointed when they don't (this is only the first entry).
- Calling the people who work on the show Trolling Creators who are making people sick of MTV's Network Decay even madder.
- Numerous theories as to what species Snookie belongs tonote such as half goblin, part tangerine, and a hybrid of Amy Winehouse and a pumpkin.
- Accusing the show of being a Batman Gambit to make sure that aliens don't invadenote The entry states that if aliens watched the show, they would consider the entire human race to be already on the road to wiping itself out (and therefore not worth invading in the first place).
As divisive as it is, Jersey Shore is still a Reality TV show, which makes these entries all the more insane.
Edited by Shadow8411openStrawman Has a Point in Godzilla King of the Monsters 2019 Film
Troper Derv0s B 2 added this to Strawman Has a Point in the YMMV page of Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019):
"A surprising number of viewers reacted this way to the government's Gotta Kill 'Em All demands regarding the Titans. Said viewers argue that while the ending proves The Extremist Was Right, with what little the human race knows about the Titans at the film's start, the demand comes off as highly understandable. Of course, this argument ignores the fact that Monarch have already established before the film's start that the Titans are ecologically essential, and that the government are basically getting it into their heads that they somehow know better than the professional Titan experts."
I think the fact that the entry argues with itself disqualifies it for the trope. What do you say?
openRaya and the Last Dragon - Villain has a Point Western Animation
This has been added and removed by various tropers, the most recent of which is rva98014:
- Villain Has a Point: Downplayed. Namaari isn't a villain so much as she is the story's antagonist, but towards the climax, she's not wrong when she soberly points out two things. First, she tells Raya that while Sisu was the bigger person and bothered to trust Namaari, the disasterous outcome happened because Raya didn't trust Sisu's judgement nor anyone else. Second, although Namaari bringing a crossbow played a part in Sisu's Disney Death, Raya causing the misfire technically makes it Raya's fault as well.
For some context, the hero accidentally causes a crossbow bolt to kill a supporting character who could have saved the world. The person who she made accidentally shoot said character blames her, and the animation supports this.
Can we get a consensus, here? For the record, I really do think it was solely Namaari's fault, but it's not supported in the movie itself, and Word of God hasn't said anything on if both characters were in the right/wrong.
Edited by FishiousRendopenCan someone in the production of something become an EnsembleDarkhorse?
I know the trope is meant to be applied to characters in a show itself, but with how easy it is nowadays for crew members, writers, directors, etc to interact with the fans and give insight on what goes on behind the scene or interesting info in general that it's sometimes led those people to become as popular in the fandom as the characters they're helping to create.
openIs fast-tracking a proposed page possible?
I checked if there's already a Pro Wrestling of the 2020s page and turns out there still isn't. A lot has happened in the wrestling world within the past year so there's ought to be a page now.
My cousin actually proposed one
in TLP last year (I believe it was even before the global lockdown). I tried creating one myself since it's taking too long but no avail so I'm asking now if fast-tracking it is possible (since it's an index page of an entire genre, and honestly because I'm itching to contribute in wrestling contents).
openRise of Skywalker examples ready to be added?
On YMMV.The Rise Of Skywalker, there are some It Was His Sled examples commented out with a note added in December 2019
saying "It's too early to tell if this applies for a very spoilerific movie. Wait for a time until the spoilers are properly ingrained into pop culture." Here are the examples, none of which were written by me:
- It Was His Sled: This is a Star Wars movie, after all. The fact that several of the plot twists were already leaked prior to the film's release doesn't help.
- Rey is revealed to be the granddaughter of Emperor Palpatine.
- Kylo Ren has a Heel–Face Turn then sacrifices himself to save Rey, just like his grandpa.
- Rey and Kylo (or rather Ben Solo) kiss.
- Rey adopts the surname Skywalker in the ending.

Princess1988 has been vandalizing and/or blanking literally every page they have edited so far. The only reasoning I can find is what they left on TearJerker.Lilo And Stitch (the page itself, not the edit reason):
Edit history.
Edited by SatoshiBakura