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Ask the Tropers:
openUse of Filler on work pages? Live Action TV
I'm adding the trope Filler to work pages, but would this sort of thing be OK for usage:
- Filler: Due to its high episode count of 22 episodes, this show has some episodes that tend to be standalone and not focusing on the story arc, and it's been one of the show's major criticisms. However, some episodes that seem like filler actually are relevant later; but in general, there are episodes which don't add much to the wider Story Arc of the season itself.
To avoid trope misuse - Square Peg, Round Trope - what would qualify as filler?
I've added this to series like Grey's Anatomy, Supergirl (2015) and The Blacklist but want to avoid square peg, round trope.
Also, would the trope qualify for that administrivia page?
If anyone could help I'd be grateful for any advice.
openTroper Report
I'd like to report a Troper by the name of Zibmaster (edit history here
) - they've edited sporadically since 2015, but I wanted to talk about their small edit spree over on Manga.Death Note and YMMV.Death Note. A while ago, I added this entry to the main page:
- Ambiguous Situation: A little less than two weeks after Light's death, Mikami dies in his cell under mysterious circumstances, and Matsuda confronts Near with the theory that Near used the Death Note on him to ensure Light's defeat and killed Mikami once he no longer had use for him. Near doesn't say anything before Matsuda walks off in disgust, and apart from Word of God saying "Near cheats", it's never explicitly confirmed nor denied (only in the manga; the anime removes this ambiguity by having Mikami kill himself on the spot during the final confrontation)
Zibmaster deleted it from the main page by essentially saying the theory didn't make sense (which is pretty irrelevant for Ambiguous Situation when the work specifically posits the idea), and decided the best course of action was to put it on the YMMV page. Over the next twenty minutes and four edits, they then deleted the star from an unrelated Adorkable entry, put the Ambiguous Situation in the wrong spot and had to move it, put a blatant justifying edit underneath it explaining why the theory might not work (and decided to be rather loose with punctuation and not include spoiler tags), then tweaked the justifying paragraph twice.
Since I wrote the initial entry, I'm nervous about doing anything to it and being in an edit war, but we've got main tropes on YMMV, justifying edits, tweaking, not spoiler tagging when necessary, and punctuation issues just to top it all off.
Edited by STARCRUSHER99resolved Issues with Unintentionally Unsympathetic on YMMV / The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
So some users seem to really want to fit Karli Morgenthau into an Unintentionally Unsympathetic entry on this page. As follows:
Version no. 1:
- Karli gets hit with this quite hard by the end. Sure, she lost her only mother figure and she's the product of a world that lost half of its entire population for five years, but she's only going further and further into the Moral Event Horizon as the show goes on. It reaches a peak in the final episode, "One World, One People", where she callously decides to kill the hostages, completely forgetting that she intended on using them as a bargaining chip instead. Never mind blowing up the GRC supply depot in the third episode. As a result, not a lot of tears were shed when Sharon, a.k.a. the Power Broker, finally put her down for good.
Version no. 2:
- Karli gets hit with this quite hard by the end. Sure, she lost her only mother figure and she's the product of a world that lost half of its entire population for five years, but she's only going further and further into the Moral Event Horizon as the show goes on. It reaches a peak in the final episode, "One World, One People", where she callously decides to kill the hostages, completely forgetting that she intended on using them as a bargaining chip instead. Never mind blowing up the GRC supply depot in the third episode. As a result, not a lot of tears were shed when Sharon, a.k.a. the Power Broker, finally put her down for good. Then again, it it kinda makes sense when you realize the Super-Soldier serum must have amplified her negative qualities too, just like Walker. She may have been a person with good intentions, but probably nowhere as incorruptible as Steve. In other words, "Good becomes great, bad becomes worse."
And Version no. 3:
- Karli is clearly meant to be a Tragic Villain with a sympathetic backstory and motivations, but many feel that she crossed the Moral Event Horizon too many times for them to buy into Sam and Bucky's view that she is ultimately just some troubled teen lashing out at the world when she commits multiple murders and attempted murders, blows up buildings, takes hostages and tries to set them on fire to prevent them from being rescued, and it doesn't help that she has nostalgia for the time when half the planet was dead and resents the Avengers for restoring billions of murdered people to life. Many see her as little more than a murderous whiny teenager with a childish view of how the world works and almost no empathy for problems that are not her own.
Putting aside that a character can't crost the MEH more than once, I don't feel like proper protocol was followed. as you can see here
, the first version was added in by Your Boy Russell on April 23rd before being edited to the second version by Hissing Aurora 94 the same day. I then deleted it a few hours later because it was a self-arguing entry, telling them to take it to the cleanup thread to discuss it first. Then the third version was added yesterday by Dragon 101. They did not bring it to the discussion thread, or really discuss it in any way before re-adding a version of the entry.
Look, I don't really care if some people don't like one character on the show but this doesn't work, right? At best the entry is bad and needs to be edited, at worst it needs to be deleted for poor curation.
Edited by MinisterOfSinisteropenVideo examples for Let's Player without a page? Videogame
I have a potential video example I want to upload, but it's from a Let's Play by HawkZombie
, who doesn't have a page here. His channel isn't very big yet (he has 359 subscribers right now), and I don't know enough about him to start a page for him.
What's the best way to handle this? Is it okay to only use the game itself as the video source? Can I link to the original video, or the player's channel, in the description?
It has to be from this Let's Play because the trope depends on the player's reaction.
Edited by DrNoPuma
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
openExpy limit
I SWEAR I remember seeing somewhere that a character can only be an Expy of one other character, and if they're listed as being an expy of multiple other characters, the example is misuse. This led me to delete an example on Characters.My Hero Academia Izuku Midoriya which broke this rule.
This morning, I woke up to a PM from Nejiiuyn saying that I was wrong and that there's no such rule. Looking at the Expy page again, it is indeed never said that one character can't be an expy of two other characters.
Am I going crazy, or was the restriction removed recently?
Edit: I see this rule in the Expy cleanup thread
, but again, it's not on the trope page itself.
openSuspicious edits Live Action TV
I know Draco in Leather Pants is in need of TRS; probably there are inconsistencies in its definition and use. Still, I'm pretty sure the proper context for any trope entry needs to say how all of the requirements of the trope are met. For DILP, one of such requirements seems to be that the character in question is a jerk and/or a villain; consequently, I think a DILP entry needs to mention their bad actions. Also, I don't think a DILP entry should actually argue in their favor.
So, on YMMV.Wanda Vision, a Draco in Leather Pants entry saw a series of suspicious tweaks.
- Firstly, they deleted the bit about Hayward refusing to let Wanda bury Vision saying, "the reasons he gives her for why he can't give her Vision's body, that he can't just let a three-billion dollars’ android made of vibranium, an extremely valuable resource In Universe, be buried somewhere, are legitimate reasons that would've kept Wanda from attaining his body independent of Hayward and his Project Cataract plan." This sounds like justifying Hayward's disregarding Vision's will and treating him as a chunk of metal and not a person.
- Secondly, they said in their edit reason, "he did not make an attempt on the twins' lives twice. He only did it once" and cut any mention about that from the entry proper.
Then, Tropers/rva98014 edited
the entry with the edit reason, "Hayward did not plan to use the anomaly from the start to animate White Vision. He discovered Wanda's residual energy would work as a power source and used it." I don't think this explains the removal of the point about Hayward's disinterest in rescuing the townsfolk. Also, I feel that "he is quite willing to ensure Wanda is killed" is quite downplaying the fact that Hayward attempts to murder her by firing a missile at her. (In another reason for deletion
, the same troper cited "generalizations without providing real specifics.")
I edited the entry
to (hopefully) accurately describe Hayward endangering and attacking the kids. I mentioned the speculation about them being hex creations - well, I thought this was interesting; I think the show's final scene implies they are real but saying so in a trope entry would verge on Speculative Troping, so I wrote that this is left ambiguous in the show, erring on the side of caution. I'm sorry about my grumpy edit reason.
Then, Tropers/rva98014 edited
the entry again with the edit reason, "Draco In Leather Pants which is the situation where the fandom takes a controversial or downright villainous character and downplays his/her flaws. An example of this trope simply has to point out how this is occurring. It's not necessary to argue whether the "downplaying" is justified or not." I don't get how the edit reason goes with the edit itself because it removes the part pointing out Hayward's villainous actions but keeps the part that allegedly justifies him.
Then, Tropers/rva98014 made another little edit
with the reason, "I think the "apparently" is needed. Yes he did disregard Vision's will but the story is unclear if he had done this without approval. It would not be the first time that a will was overridden nor were his actions particularly clandestine making it hard to justify "project cataract" was a top secret project no one but he knew about." This doesn't bring any proof from the show proper to back up this speculation. The speculation that shifts the blame from Hayward.
Also, Tropers/rva98014 edited
another entry saying in their edit reason, "Agatha was not running the entire show, she just kept introducing elements of chaos into the scenarios because she was trying to get Wanda out of her pretend world. Sparky was never a real dog either and Agatha knew that she was only "killing" a prop." While the part about Agatha not running the entire show is true, the rest sounds like justifying her, too, and decisively calls Sparky "a prop." IIRC, the show doesn't indicate he isn't a real dog.
There's a mod note on top of the page saying that the guy is "an antagonist meant to be seen as an antagonist," and you should not whitewash him. From these edits, I get the feeling the Draco in Leather Pants entry about him is gradually turning into a self-demonstrating one, what's with cutting bits about his bad actions, downplaying, and justifying them. Should something be done?
openIs this getting off-topic?
For Demon Slayer: Kimetsu no Yaiba, I'm arguing that there are multiple reasons why the Tanjiro's family wouldn't believe in demons and we veer slightly off-topic. In the end I get back on topic but I'm afraid if it's veered too much off its own course. Maybe all the irrelevant parts just need to be cut out.
- Why would Tanjiro and his family not know Demons exist in the start of the series? Considering Demons aren't rare enough to be all that secretive at the start of the story, you have several Demons who can just casually take up shop in random cities and prey on people without being detected, why would his family not know? Even if they weren't told, they live near a village that has people who clearly do know they exist, so why would they think Demons aren't real?
- For the same reason why some people don't believe in ghosts in real life while others do, I guess.
- That doesn't answer the issue. Demons are established to be real, physically exist and have for thousands of years. Why would he and his family not know they exist at all? Besides, Ghosts aren't a good analogy because Ghosts don't exist physically (and I don't believe they exist), Demon's are factually and undeniably real in the setting of Demon Slayers. It would be one thing if Demon's were super rare, or there was some kind of The Men in Black who go out and ensure Demon's aren't seen or deny them, but people know what Demon Slayers are already.
- Maybe some people don't believe in Demon Slayers either. Just knowing that they exist isn't enough proof for them to confirm that demons exist within their limited knowledge of the universe. It's like knowing that Vikings exist(ed), but choosing not to believe in the mythological tales that they talk about because they lack the same experiences, or with any supernatural story that are disbelieved in by the majority of people because others say that it's simply impossible, mostly due to the fact that they don't have the same experiences and word of mouth... Imagine how hard it would be to try and explain vampire Michael Jackson using science (you're welcome to try). Think of it like how people in the middle ages would claim that witchcraft doesn't exist. Not exactly due to how they perceive the world (science), but mostly out of pure fear and as an attempt of controlling society (though it's a bit more complicated than just that). In real life, Demon Slayers can be compared to the Onmyōdō which are basically government-hired magicians. Do you believe in them? Probably not, since you most likely don't believe in magic. But they existed. There's tons of proof of magic existing (seriously, there's tons of records like the Galdrabok. Go check 'em out for yourself) but because the majority of some societies believes it's impossible, well...
- I'm not taking about real world examples because they have no bearing on the plot of the show, I'm only talking about why his family seemed to just not believe Demons exist when, again, there is a town they go to seemingly constantly that has at least one person who we know, for sure, knows Demons exist. Plus it seems Tanjiro's father did know that Demons existed so why would he not tell his family "Hey, be careful at night. There are Demons living in the area who could attack". Magic, ghosts, etc, none of those have any baring on just why they all seemed to just not know Demons exisited. And on your last point, I'm going to be blunt and say that no, magic is not real.
- Because Tanjiro's family is not open-minded to demons, just like how some people in real life aren't open-minded to the supernatural. Whether they believe in demons or not is irrelevant due to the fact they they exist in their universe (or at least we, the viewers know they exist). The world works much more deeper than they're aware of, as they lack the amount of knowledge. They were simply told that demons aren't real by trustworthy people and they believed them. Or maybe it's a cultural taboo to believe in demons. Being told that demons aren't real would probably put one at ease from the terrifying implications, especially if the people that tell you demons aren't real is noteworthy for being trustworthy (for example, a scientist). Also, I made those real world comparisons to try and put you into the mindset of how things would work in their society. Maybe you're asking the wrong questions here, to be honest, 'cause this thread may be getting a little off-topic, and the answer is very complicated.
Little timmy: Daddy daddy, vampire Michael Jackson is in my closet! He's stealing my vegetables!Dad: Now, now, son, don't be silly. There's no such thing as vampires or Michael Jackson. Hey, where'd all this blood come from? Where'd my finger go? Must be the flu.- To try and put it simply, there are multiple reasons for Tanjiro's family being unaware of demons:
- 1) Lack of widespread knowledge of demons, especially for Tanjiro's family.
- 2) People may have tried debunking their existence before because they believe they aren't possible and they haven't encountered them. This leads to more and more people accepting they aren't real and rejecting people that actually know demons exist without being open-minded about it.
- 3) They were told they aren't real by trustworthy people (like by scientists/word of mouth). For example them claiming that demons would be physically impossible. These scientists may also want to debunk the existence of demons out of fear of the implications and avoidance of social humiliation or rejection.
- 4) Demons are scary to think about. The supernatural implications are even scarier. If none of that is real the world feels more safe and less scary than it already is.
- 5) Could also be a cultural taboo to believe in demons. See Wolfwalkers to witness something similar happen to the Wolfwalkers.
- 6) A theory: Maybe stuff like magic has a scientific explanation to it in the world of Demon Slayer, like alchemy from FMA. The breathing techniques are sort of like psuedo-science anyways (expanding lung capacity = superhuman powers). At least, in my opinion. But demons have yet to be given a commonly accepted scientific explanation.
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
openLeaked content on My Hero Academia pages
I've been noticing this issue for a while now.
On pages for My Hero Academia, some users are adding information about the latest chapter before it's been officially released in English, based on scanlations. I've mainly seen this affecting Characters.My Hero Academia One For All; in fact, a back-and-forth involving multiple users has just happened today: Ludicrous Wolverine edited the page to add the name of a character which is revealed in the upcoming Chapter 310. This was reverted by Lion King Alex, citing that adding content based on leaks is not allowed. Green Lizard 9, Rich 4, and Aukefi then made more edits using the leaked name.
EDIT: Decided to just go ahead and revert this myself, and also add a warning comment to the page. I'll also send warning PMs to the offending users.
Edited by ZuxtronopenDisputing recent deletion (Invincible 2021: Spoilers) Western Animation
I had recently added the following example to the YMMV page of Invincible (2021):
- What An Idiot: Despite being shown to be a very competent team of heroes, several members of the Guardians of the Globe grab the Idiot Ball hard during their fight with Omni-Man.
- [[spoiler: The first thing Red Rush does when the fight starts is shove Immortal out of the way of Omni-Man’s sneak attack, saving Immortal’s life. Then when Omni-Man continues to attack, Red Rush counters Omni-Man’s speed by moving his teammates out of the way at the last second, frustrating Omni-Man.
- [[spoiler: Darkwing functions as the team’s Batman Expy, using stealth, gadgets, skill and intelligence to take out his opponents. He’s also just seen Omni-Man murder Red Rush.
These additions were deleted with the following justification:
My Little Xero: Simply doesn't fit, as we barely know anything about the character before their deaths, claiming that they're holding the Idiot Ball is simply inaccurate as we need to know their typical behavior to call it as such, in addition as we see when the Guardians fight the Mauler Twins, the tactics used the by the characters to fight Omni-Man are pretty much the same so this
Naturally, I disagree. For one thing, the part of editing reason is inaccurate, as the tactics used by the mentioned characters in a previous fight are different from the ones they used vs Omni-Man. Against the Mauler Twins (who are much weaker than Omni-Man), Darkwing actually maintained distance, uses his weapons effectively and did not try to drop kick either of them. Likewise, Red Rush only engages the Mauler Twins (who are both much slower than Omni-Man) in melee when Green Ghost immobilizes them. So in both instances, the heroes tactics were different in their fight with Omni-Man than they were with the Mauler Twins.
Beyond them simply not being as effective as before, the tactics in both cases are suicidally stupid. Literally so since it gets them both killed (along with other members of their team), and I feel What an Idiot was made for moments of that kind of stupidity, regardless of how little we might know about the characters in general.
Furthermore, a lack of knowledge of a character does not invalidate the use of What An Idiot listings. Taken directly from the What An Idiot page:
"Because most viewers have basic common sense, one would usually expect the same from characters on TV shows. Any negative deviation from such usually prompts a Face Palm and the comment "What an idiot!" or similar, hence the entry name."
The page also mentions that some characters are supposed to be idiots, but goes on to say how that does not invalidate including them in What An Idiot entries. It merely asks that you summarize such moments rather than list them all.
If it's specifically the inclusion of the Idiot Ball trope that makes this inaccurate, I can remove it. I have ZERO intentions of getting into any kind of an editing war, so I'd like other opinions on the matter, to make sure I'm not in the wrong or anything before I take any additional steps.
Edited by Ares101openUnbuilt Trope again Anime
(NSFW)
Few days ago, I removed this Monster Musume entry from UnbuiltTrope.Anime And Manga (originally a two bullets entry).
- Animal-based species are given the strength of their respective animals to match, and examined realistically as well. With the exception of Rachneranote who does know her strength and Lalanote who is fundamentally no different than a normal human outside of her being headless, Kimihito's monster girls frequently have trouble holding their strength back, which results in him getting injured. Should any of them not hold back any of their strength, such as during a full moon, their strength could literally kill him.
My reason is that this one is a plain Deconstruction. As noted in the work page, Monster Musume is Bleached Underpants of Living with Monster Girl (and I would like to add that it's also know as My Life with Monster Girl), itself is fanwork of Monster Girl Encyclopedia, an escapism porn (we used to have pages for it, but it got cut by P5 for lolicon content). In that work, it's noted that monster girls' strenght or pointy bodyparts will never harm their husband thank to their innate succubi mana. Oyakado deconstructed it since Living with Monster Girl with two strips showing how sex with monster girls can leave their mates with scars and marks (I don't think I can provide a link here, am I?).
Today, Tehrannotaur add it back. Claims that "unbuilt trope is that the trope was played with (this includes deconstructed) before it was popularized (and in some case the epitome itself played with that trope). While monster musume wasn't the first monster girl-centric series, it popularized the genre".
But as noted, this one is direct deconstruction to its parent work. It pick an element (monster girls can't accidently harm their husbands) and potray it as how it should be (originally when they get too excite during sex, then Bleached Underpants version expand it to everyday life).
In other words, this isn't the case of "the work that popularized the genre use a trope in unusual way", it's "the work that popularized the genre deconstruct the older work, but the later work follow the older one". Not unbuilt, just a plain deconstruction.
Edited by KuruniopenStrange example on YMMV.ASoundOfThunder
I'm not sure how to handle this. On one hand, we have obvious natter. On the other hand, the single-bullet part appears to be giving details that weren't established in the novel, which is something the second-level bullet is trying to clarify.
The second-level bullet was added by Tropers.The Book Was Better. The initial entry was added by Tropers.AK 47 Productions. Page history
.
- Values Dissonance: It's Keith, the liberal president, who is devoutly Christian, while the conservative Deutscher is specifically called out for being "Anti-Christ". In modern America it's most usually the conservative politicians who use Christian morals to attempt to enforce their conservative views, despite a traditional separation of Church and State. It's worth noting that Bradbury himself was a staunch conservative in his final years, during which time he had some very positive things to say about Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush. Take that as you will. This is mainly due to the Sound of Thunder being made during the time when Christianity was generally considered as a "neutral" topic until the rise of the Moral Majority movement among American Conservatism in 1980's.
- The story never actually classifies the candidates as being "Liberal" or "Conservative". It only describes Deutscher as "anti-Christ, anti-human, and anti-intellectual" These terms could describe extremism at either far end of the spectrum, especially depending on the reader's point of view. Then again, political ideologies might be aligned differently in the fictional world of the story than in ours. Hence, YMMV.
Problems not withstanding, what should be done about this? This is rather political and there is the real possibility some of the details are false.
openSupernaturaldramasFan
Supernaturaldramas Fan has been doing some bizarre things in some Smallville and Buffy the Vampire Slayer pages.
On the Characters.Buffy The Vampire Slayer Scooby Gang Originals, they deleted several entries on a character with no reason given (they were already restored by another troper).
They created the Analysis.Smallville page and copy-pasted some argument between users from another Wikia site.
They also created the Synopsis.Smallville page just to put a PSA for people not to skip the first 3 seasons, which is not what Sypnosis pages are for.
They put the same PSA on the main Smallville article, which I removed myself for being out of place.
They're also posting both that Wikia argument and the PSA on many of the Smallville discussion pages.
openDo Fan Nicknames belong anywhere besides a Trivia subpage?
In Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019), there is a character (one of King Ghidorah's heads) that fans like to call "Kevin". This isn't canon, but various pages related to the movie refer to the character as "Kevin". These references should be scrubbed, right? Example: the YMMV page makes multiple references to "Kevin" without acknowledging that it's a Fan Nickname.
Similarly, the post-Time Skip episodes of Zoids: Chaotic Century often get referred to as either "Season 2" or a Sequel Series titled "Zoids: Guardian Force". Again, not official, there is no split, so we should avoid referencing that, right? Example: the main series page itself is split into "Chaotic Century" and "Guardian Force" tropes.
Edited by PrimisopenLarge Scale Edits and no response Live Action TV
So troper Metal Shadow X is one of the most active editors of the Arrowverse. And I want to make it clear that I do not wish to diminish him or his contributions which, for the most part, have been pretty good. However, as of late he keeps making
tons of large-scale adjustments to all pages, constantly moving stuff and never discussing any of it.
While that by itself might not warrant any action, what tipped me off was him moving the Star Labs Page
to Team Flash
.
The biggest problem here is that he outright deleted some character folders and hasn't put them up anywhere else. I have messaged him this morning, but haven't received anything back. He did make 1 edit afterwards though.
What would be the best course of action?
Edited by ForenperseropenPossible fanfic page "ownership" issue
Happened to look at the Cut List and see that Muse Hysteria and its Trivia subpage are listed, with the reason of "fanfic is being retooled". The page looks like a stub, but all its content was just removed
by HotmanX32, who, it turns out, is also the author
. The story itself does seem to still exist
.
openExcessive gushing in YMMV/TheRageaholic ?
I'm specifically thinking about the the examples for Heartwarming Moments and Moment of Awesome, both of which mention the allegations against Michael Jackson, which is a bit of a contentious issue in and of itself.
Edited by Powoga
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
openTroper with poor grammar
I've noticed that tgibsonlabour45 has some issues with grammar in their edits to Danganronpa pages, especially punctuation and run-on sentences.
- Too Good for This Sinful Earth: Subverted by her surviving the events of SDR 2 in hope arc but in spite of her flaws Mahiru is an extremely kind and selfless person who loves photographer because she loves seeing others smile and making them happen, when twilight syndrome framed her for covering up Natsumi's death she didn't run from it, she tried to make amends over the death of her school bully to her brother who was also a massive toxic bully, this of course ends up killing her coldly, the group especially Hiyoko are distraught and Hajime notes her kind hearted and forward nature and throughout the investgation is really saddened even both Fuyuhiko(Initially he's remorseless but later attempts seppuku out of his guilt over her death alone) and Peko (calling Mahiru's murder senseless and asking for the group to never let it happen again) seem to regret their actions and Hiyoko creates a memorial focusing on her pictures that while initially freaks the group out they come to really adore it as it shows how much her pictures made others happy(Fuyuhiko even has a hide to find scene where her looks at a picture with him and Peko where he reflectfully notes that its the first time he's ever seen a picture where they both look like equals and wonders when Mahiru took it.
- Karma Houdini: Completely averted, every game had a legit killer surviving and its true that Fuyuhiko was as guility as Peko in Mahiru's murder but firstly he is badly injured to the point of losing an eye and his eye for an eye thing comes back both ways as Peko dies, in addition after the second trial he goes as far as Seppuku to show the group that he's truly sorry to the point of death for what he did to Mahiru and drops the whole asshole lone wolf thing and becomes a highly reliable and kind hearted member of the group, arugably the most useful after Hajime Chiaki and at times Nagito. He truly earns his survival.
- Alas, Poor Scrappy: Hiyoko died in an attempt to honour Mahiru, she also died completely scared and alone, while Hiyoko was far from a great person its pretty hard not to feel bad as she tells Sonia in a flashback "i can do it because Mahiru taught me", bully or not she was a scared kid dealing with her only friends unfair murder and to make things worse she was trying to change and only died because she was in the wrong place at the wrong time, if Fuyuhiko and Peko didn't coldly take out Mahiru she'd still be alive [The missing period is not an error from me incorrectly copying and pasting.]
I sent a notifier, but they've made so many edits that it's going to be hard to fix all of them.
Edited by Zuxtron

On Transgender Fetishization, Tropers.Wowowow removed an example
for Kaine from NieR for the reason: "Kaine isn’t transgender. She was born as a woman with both male and female genitals."
This is despite (1) the entry itself acknowledges that she's intersex, and (2) the trope description is very clear that "For this trope, 'Transgender' is being used as a catch-all for many different forms of gender-nonconformity, such as Crossdresser, Ambiguous Gender, Ambiguous Gender Identity, Sex Shifter or others."
When I added the example back citing that the description states this, they then removed the example again with no edit reason.
Edited by NubianSatyress