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openWhat if an AlternateUniverse had an AlternateSelf?
The MCU animated series What If…? (2021) has stories set in alternate universes than the MCU main one. There is an entry for Alternate Self, listing characters with divergences from the originals. I removed it saying "Trope misuse. Original and alternate must meet.", but then it was restored by Asherinka, who said "There is no such requirement according to the trope page. All variants in the MCU are valid examples of Alternate Self."
On a surface reading, he's right, the trope does not explicitly demand original and variant to meet. However, it can be understood by context: the description is about the comparisons and identity conflicts between both, and all the examples are about meetings of original and variant. And besides, just common sense: if "alternate version of a character" was in itself a trope, with no meeting required, it would be completely redundant with Alternate Universe, as everybody in such a universe is a variant of someone from the main universe by definition (barring some limited exceptions, like canon foreigners).
I don't want to start an edit war over this, so I would like to hear someone else's opinion.
openAsking and answering questions in an example--bad formatting?
I realize the question itself might be phrased poorly, so I'll elaborate. Every once in a while I see examples where the writer chose to ask themselves a question then answer it, as seen in this example from What If…? (2021) (spoilered because it's a new show)
The final battle has Captain Carter and her Howling Commandoes assaulting the HYDRA fortress Castle de krake in order to defeat the Red Skull and save the world. Red Skull is able to use the regained Tesseract to open a portal and summon a Kraken to destroy the Earth. The Kraken's first action? Kill the Red Skull!
Is this kind of phrasing okay, or is it Natter? I know it annoys me personally, but I don't wanna go deleting or editing things willy-nilly just because I have a pet peeve.
Edited by AfterwordopenAkiba's Trip H&D trope page editing please Videogame
Hey Y'all,
So Akiba's Trip H&D has been released after a few weeks now and I think its about time someone a bit more capable than me(I am but a measly and lazy troper who is both a little shitty at describing and getting myself to actually do something) can actually try to take a look and update the page a little more if possible. That being said, kindly also take a look at my edits(especially in the character page) and edit them as required because I'm pretty sure I didn't get them entirely right.
Let me know when any one of you who have actually played the game and take a look at it!
I'm also currently collecting Akiba's Trip extra materials to add in extra information that's All in the Manual stuff that elaborates more on the characters themselves and designer stuff(along with a few bits of Word of Saint Paul). When I get that stuff translated(...eventually, I'm having a hard time looking for someone to translate them), I'll prolly let those who help out with editing know.
openEdit war on YMMV.DigimonTamers
Link to the start of the edit chains
. lgcruz proceeded to downplay author's support for the conspiracies via rephrasing it to the tune of "he just talks about them", claiming to having posted "proof" in the forum thread
(with more posts on following pages).
On the page itself, after lgcruz' first softening edit, starjewel reverted it to what it was before and then lgcruz redid their changes.
openA note encouraging use of zero context examples
Spotted this note on Close on Title —
Looks like it was added back in 2015 by someone who was not a mod. Since this obviously flies in the face of Zero-Context Example, would it be cool if I removed it?
resolved Author's saving throw misuse/concern
So, after talking about it
on "Is this an example?", on the advice of a mod I decided to come here. I'm pretty much echoing what I write over on "Is this an example?" but...here's what's up.
I'm a bit concerned about a trope under the category of Author's Saving Throw. As I was going through the trope page a few months ago, I noticed Misterian wrote the following a while ago:
- The first two chapters of RayFox faced some criticism 4 years later for its narrative expecting readers to sympathize with the citizens and authorities of Meva City for persecuting and vilifying Ray as an arsonist and terrorist despite not knowing (or seemingly not trying to look into) the full story of Ray's vigilante exploits simply on the basis of "he broke the law and destroyed property, so it warrants consequences" with little to no nuance, especially regarding why he did. Chapter 4 shifts the narrative from Ray joining S.O.S. to atone to the authorities extending the offer to him out of recognition for the lives he's saved and sees his help as something desperately needed, with implications that the public have grown suspicious of the accusations against Ray. The S.O.S. is friendlier and open-minded toward Ray in contrast to previous chapters, with some seeking further details from Ray about the Meva Arsenal incident. The end of Chapter 4 fully cemented this with Rayfox upstaging a public speech held by Morales to fully explain who he is, the powers he possesses, and what he's been doing, Making clear his goals to improve himself as a crime fighter he's forming at own request rather than anyone shaming him for his apparent disregard for the law, as if the author has taken to fully embracing the viewing of Ray as an earnest aspiring hero rather than the young careless vigilante the previous chapters tried to portray him as.
At the time, I had tried to trim it down so that it was more laconic, but he added a whole lot more while putting it on the comic page via edit requests, and now I'm beginning to wonder if it actually is valid; almost feels as if it's a bit "braggy" on the troper's part, as if he feels the author suddenly changed the narrative of the story because of 3 reviews on the Tropes page.
Regardless of my gripes with the comic, this seems like a rather inaccurate use of the trope. Unlike with stuff like Unintentionally Sympathetic/Unsympathetic, it would have taken a good chunk of the audience vocally criticizing it for this particular trope in question to count, and given that the audience isn't really that big or publicly vocal in general (with the exception of his fans, and even then, they aren't 100% present from what I've seen), it doesn't feel like it applies. I'm very tempted to remove from both the trope page and the comic page via edit requests, but I dunno.
I can confirm that there is no ill-intent behind this, only a simple misunderstanding of the trope and what it really means. But still, I would like to get this taken down.
EDIT: After speaking with the original writer of the entry, it seems we agree that the entry doesn't fit the trope. As for the comic page, I still have to get a consensus for that to actually be removed.
Edited by Stardust5099openRewrite vs Retcon
Characters.Kingdom Hearts Vanitas Characters.Kingdom Hearts Vanitas
- Re Write: It happens with Vanitas in Re:Mind. He is established in his debut game Birth By Sleep to be the living embodiment of Ven's darkness, extracted from his heart. Ten years later, in III's Re:Mind DLC, he suddenly reveals to Ven and Aqua in a new scene that he is actually a separate being who was merely hidden inside Ven's heart and ripped out by Xehanort (though the line from III referencing himself as a piece of Ven is still left in when he dies, suggesting that he still views himself as a part of Ven). Ven and Aqua don't care enough to get more information before he fades back into darkness. Union Cross supports this with the reveal that one of the 13 pieces of Darkness sealed itself inside Ven to escape on the ark.
I'm having trouble understanding how this is different than Retcon. The Re Write page states it's "A Retcon which directly ignores, contradicts or alters information in the Backstory." So is it a sub-trope of Retcon or The Same, but More Specific? The Re Write page also has examples from Alternate Continuity or changes things that were assumed as opposed to outright shown/stated which seems misuse, so the trope might need cleanup.
open Is there such a thing as a "Trusted Editor"? Western Animation
I've noticed that a troper, in their profile, listed themselves as a Trusted Editor of a specific set of pages here on tvtropes.
I hadn't ever come across that term before. If this a real thing, I'd be curious to know how that role works?
Or is it just a self-proclaimed title chosen by the troper that has no real meaning?
Edited by rva98014openWarning to NOT add context to examples?
Abraxas (Hrodvitnon) has a huge commented out header (takes up almost the entire screen on desktop, which has the instructions "Be aware, trope entries listed on these pages are deliberately shortened, to both keep spoilers to a minimal and actively encourage page viewers to read the actual fanfiction. Please do not extend entries, and try to avoid going into unnecessary details."
Is this kind of thing allowed? It seems like this encourages Zero-Context Examples- the page itself has a number of them, which I've commented out.
openBig Ultraman reshuffle Live Action TV
So… if any of you can remember, a couple of months ago I started the Ultra Series Characters initiative, a humongous reorganization of the Ultra Series character pages to bring them more in line with modern Verse-based structure, rather then the installment-based organization currently in use, I abandoned it a while back, but seeing Vengeful Bale’s Ultra pages (Characters Ultra Series Ultraman Belial and Tregear) renewed my interest in the project, and I intend to return to the project.
Now why did I do this you might ask? Well it’s simple, unlike his contemporaries, Ultraman has a massive Rogues Gallery, and because of his Legacy Character nature, they often reoccur between series, which means that every Ultraman character page has approximately a dozen "See Literally Any Ultraman Show" entries scattered across the Ultrapages, which leaves the Ultra Series a tad disorganized.
So, should I go through with this? I remember a similar Jurassic Park reorganization of mine being rejected because of how self-contained every film is, but can the same apply to Ultraman?
Edited by GeneralGiganopenAbout the image uploading
Okay so I accidently almost uploaded an image of myself. I was looking for a picture of a character among my files and accidently clicked on the wrong download. I managed to quickly press the cancel button before it finished uploading but I'm a little paranoid so I'm curious.
What does the uploading in the uploading images mean specifically? Like is it uploading somewhere?
Edited by slimcoderopenTTS Tear Jerker issues
As sad as the premature end of the series was, I question these resulting additions to TearJerker.If The Emperor Had A Text To Speech Device:
- Kitten arrives at the Noctis Labyrinth, but is ambushed by Cawl's forces and a battle ensues where the Custodes entourage suffers several losses culminating in Kitten's defeat and death to the despair of every Custodes present. The Emperor, having been watching and cheering on the Custodes, completely loses it and lets loose a psychic backlash so significant that it erupts from Holy Terra as if splitting the planet in half. Rogal Dorn attempts to mitigate this by donning his centurion helmet and jumping into the Emperor's lap despite the warp-storm, and seemingly succeeds in reducing it to a solemn rain as he lays distressingly still across the Emperor's lap. Once again, a loyal son of the Emperor has died at the hands of traitors while attempting to rescue his father, another has nearly perished just to please him, and another might be dead due to attempting to rescue the people of Terra. And with TTS going on an indefinite hiatus, this cliffhanger becomes a Downer Ending.
Alfabusa:
"The third part will not be released despite it honestly being quite close to finished. [...] [W]ith the situation now, other than needing to focus on starting up new projects and the lack of motivation, it also, in a horrible way, felt kind of apt to end it here. Sorry."
- What adds an extra layer of sadness to the whole affair, the final episode is dedicated to Corrie (CCRockchic), the female voice of Cawl after she passed away from lung cancer. The message in the description speaks for itself.
This was meant to be her second appearance as Cawl. She would have done amazingly, we know this for an absolute fact, and we are still distraught she did not have the chance to reprise her role. We thank you for the time and the work you did have the time to grace us with, Corrie. Thank you so much, and rest well. - The Fate of TTS
. Thanks to GW's new zero tolerance policy for fan animations, Alfabusa has announced that he can't afford to take any legal risks, especially with his newborn child, and so the series is going to be shelved for the foreseeable future. He goes into depth, almost on the verge of tears, that after working on this project for the last eight years purely out of love for Warhammer 40,000, he and the cast will likely be stepping away from the franchise, especially in light of recent allegations regarding the company. He admits that they might make content for other franchises to keep things going, but knows that it'll affect viewership with how niche the channel is and he's not sure if support will dry up or not. The whole situation has turned him into, in his own words, a meatball of despair.
As Tear Jerker is NoRealLife.Too Common, I question if the last examples is a violation of that as, sad as it is, is entry out-of-universe. The In Memoriam I'd consider valid as it ties into/expands upon the in-work Tear Jerker aspect, and is unrelated to the cancelation, but I'm running it by.
Also, in response to the series de-facto cancelation, the pages image was changed from [1]
◊ to [2]
◊, the newer one seems like Just a Face and a Caption. Thoughts?
resolved Not related stinger on main DMC page, keep or delete? Videogame
User TimeLordVictorious added this edit
to Devil May Cry, which on the one hand, I can understand some of the humor behind it. However, on the other hand, it's completely unrelated to the page itself, so was wondering if it should be removed or not.
openFoils in the The Musketeers Live Action TV
Hi there. I thought that there was a few foils among the characters of the series The Musketeers but it seems to be a rather divisive topic so I wanted to get peoples opinions. Does any of the below seem like straight foils that should be posted or should they be included under other topics. Thanks
Aramis and Rochefort – Both of them are skilled soldiers, have ties to Spain and France and have feelings for Queen Anne. However, Aramis’ feelings are returned, he is aware of the difficulties of their situation, respects Anne as a person and repeatedly risks his life to protect Anne and her son, even leaving Paris for their safety and he is loyal to his friends, country and king and kills only when necessary. Rochefort however is more a Stalker with a Crush with no real interest in Anne’s wants or feelings, when she rejects him, he [[Attempted Rape: tries to force herself on her]] and almost kills her. He’s also supposed to be a spy for Spain but has no real loyalty to anyone but himself and is quick to use murder as a solution.
Athos and Aramis – both are well-liked and respected musketeers who are considered the best at a particular skill, are in love with a woman they shouldn’t be and have Dark And Troubled Pasts and presents. Aramis is outgoing, cheerful, loquacious and [[Sad Clown: hides his troubles behind a smile]]. Athos is introverted, quiet, moody, and [[Drowning My Sorrows: buries his demons with drink]]. They are also fiercely loyal and protective of each other and their friends.
King Louis is French-born and sovereign but doesn’t really think about the people of France and prefers to enjoy the perks of his role and leave the actual responsibilities to his advisors. And while he adores his son, he doesn’t try to actually teach him about ruling or being a king. Queen Anne by comparison is Spanish-born and is hated for it, deeply cares about the people and actively tries to help them when she can, even if it is limited until she becomes regent. She also loves her son but tries to instil lessons so he understands the responsibilities of being monarch. She’s also a Better Judge Of Character.
Treville and Richelieu are trusted advisors and father figures to the king and head up the two most important and influential regiments in Paris. Treville is honest, straight-forward and A Father to His Men, takes responsibility for his mistakes and is also close to Queen Anne. Richelieu is far more underhanded and sneaky, manipulates the king, is a Bad Boss who’ll sell out his employees and frame innocent people, have his mistress killed and tries to kill the queen.
Charon is one to Porthos. Both of them hate the Court of Miracles, want a new life away from it and have relationships with Flea. Charon however stayed to become king and sold out everyone for money not caring that thousands of people would die and tries to force Flea to join him. Porthos respected Flea’s decisions and desire for a life in the Court, went into the army and became a musketeer to earn money honestly and ends up helping save the Court.
Queen Anne and the Duchess of Savoy are both loving sisters married to rivals of their brothers for the sake of alliances. Queen Anne cares for her husband but doesn’t love him and while she communicates with her brother, she is politically loyal to her husband and country of marriage. The duchess loves her husband but acts as a spy for her brother and the country of her birth undermining both the duke and his advisors for France.
openSome Comments/Concerns About SBIH
The SBIH subpages have always been some of my favorites on the site (when properly used, anyway), but I do have a few things to say.
- A consistent pet peeve I have with entries is that many of them use meaningless comparisons in place of elaboration (e.g. "a Cliché Storm plot that makes Hurricane Katrina look like a light breeze" and the like), expecting the reader to Take Our Word for It, leaving me unable to tell just what went so wrong. Should there be some sort of elaboration requirement?
- I do believe that removed entries should be listed at least in commented-out form; I recently had an edit reverted on the basis that the work in question (Sonic Gather Battle) had already previously been removed, something which I wasn't aware of beforehand. I feel that putting a work and a clarification for why it isn't there (e.g. "%%Sonic Gather Battle: Removed due to the reason for its infamy being largely not tied to the game itself.") would potentially save a lot of redundant edit reversions.
- What's the wiki policy on Bold Inflation? I don't see anything about it in the text formatting rules, and I notice it as a problem in far more pages than just SBIH (though it tends to be especially prevalent in SBIH).
openMisaimedFandom and WhatAnIdiot on ''Guilty Gear''.
I found these examples recently added by Rebelion Roja on Guilty Gear and I'm not sure about any of them:
- Misaimed Fandom: Bridget was considered an LGTBQ icon a few years back, even coined the infamous Trap term, it was told by many people that he was a good representation of an LGTB character... When he's stated that he's straight and he hates dressing like a girl.
- Venom, on the other hand is a tasteful representation of a homosexual character... when he doesn't want to kill Millia.
- What An Idiot: For someone who wants to prove his manliness and wants to be taken serious, Bridget has no hurries to look like a guy, an even moreso when he's told by several characters to stop dressing like a girl for starters.
For Misaimed Fandom, is this true about Bridget? From what I've seen and heard he didn't seem to be all that depressed about looking like a girl, just wanting to prove himself as a man, nor do I remember anything stating his sexual preference. I do feel that What An Idiot seems like it's complaining about a character point regarding Bridget when I think it should be more akin to certain moments like for example, a hero has a perfect opportunity to defeat a villain but doesn't for no good reason. As for Venom, I'm not sure. He started off as a villain, but is known for his relationship with Zato-1, and while he does hate Millia, he only tries to kill her after Zato orders him and only goes after her for personal reasons after Zato's death. Are these okay?
openSPUMC Venom's gender pronouns Film
In light of the release of the second trailer
for Venom: Let There Be Carnage, I want to put to rest a seemingly unresolved query as to what pronouns should be used when referring to the Venom symbiote. Being a symbiote, it has no defined gender or sex, choosing to assume the form of its host and never refers to itself by any pronouns but "we" across all continuities. Same goes for the SPUMC (Sony Pictures Universe of Marvel Characters) version of the character where it briefly possesses Anne and then morphs into a female form. In the same universe, however, Tom Hardy's Eddie Brock refers to Venom with male pronouns (which his comic book counterpart never really does so), which Venom never objects to, so while there might not be a biological sex, the symbiote seems to identify as male. Gernerally speaking though, the entity formed when Eddie and the symbiote merge together is also called Venom and the combined form is referred to with male pronouns. I just want to know what the consensus is though about what pronouns pertain to the SPUMC symbiote itself before officially altering any associated work pages.
open EditWar on Recap.TheSimpsonsS7E5LisaTheVegetarian
BrianKT
has made some deletions on The Simpsons S7 E5 "Lisa the Vegetarian" that I find very questionable. The examples are Broken Aesop, Hypocrite and (on the YMMV page) Don't Shoot the Message, all of which refer to Apu talking to Lisa about how to respect other people's beliefs (the episode revolved around Lisa becoming a vegetarian, and Apu revealing he secretly serves customers tofu dogs instead of hot dogs).
BrianKT deleted all examples referring to it on the basis that "he's not forcing them on other people, and what they don't know won't hurt them".
I disagree with this assessment and restored the examples on the basis that Apu is a Hypocrite since he isn't practicing what he preaches: he tells Lisa to respect other people's beliefs and not actively force them to stop eating meat, yet he himself doesn't respect other people's beliefs since he's secretly selling them tofu dogs instead of hot dogs; if he respected other people's rights to eat meat, he would sell them the meat they paid for instead of what amounts to lying to their faces. Just because he's not vocal and in-your-face about it like Lisa is does not mean he isn't still forcing his beliefs. The "what they don't know won't hurt them" reasoning is also disagreeable since a deleted entry on BrokenAesop.The Simpsons points out that a customer could be allergic to soy, which definitely would hurt them if they ate a tofu dog while thinking it was a hot dog.
BrianKT then deleted the examples again (I didn't add the original examples, merely restored them, so he's reverse-Edit Warring: delete-add-delete [but if I'm edit-warring too, my bad]) and linked to the Removing complaining thread
as the edit reason; I went there to check, and it turns out he didn't actually get approval from the thread before deleting the examples.
Should the examples stay up, or was he justified in deleting them? I'm not sure of how to resolve this, so I'm asking here.
Edited by N8han11

Self-explanatory, really. Since Quietly Cancelled got launched today, I'm concerned that there will be misuse of examples pre-maturally calling works on hiatus "cancelled". I think there should be a waiting period of sorts to make sure the works are actually cancelled before adding examples, but what do you think?