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Ask the Tropers:
openThe Amazing Spider-Man Series Cleanup
The page for The Amazing Spider-Man Series is a cluttered mess. There's too much in the lead to the article, it's confusing to read, and a lot of it repeats itself.
I think it should either be cut down to the bare minimum of what is needed, or if we want to keep it, clean it up and make it presentable.
Sorry if this isn't the place for this. I've not done this before.
openMisuse of Old Shame for complaining?
On Trivia.Noah Caldwell Gervais, there's this Old Shame entry (posting it here because I'm not sure how much attention a Trivia page with two entries will get):
* OldShame: His opinions on the controversial ''VideoGame/TheLastOfUsPartII'' are this but not because of the opinion itself but because of the response it got due to him condemming condemning the game's detractors as closed-minded, entiltled entitled and/or transphobic. Many people took to the comments to attack and insult him, which caused him to enter into a depressed state that didn't allow him to write for a while.
Looking at the video itself (which I just rewatched, which got me reading NCG's page), in the comments he mentions that he regrets not considering criticisms trans critics of the character Lev made (specifically linking this article as another perspective
). He certainly notes that some critics were indeed driven by transphobia and misogyny, but makes no claim it was the only reason to criticise the game (as the fact he's got a 2+ hour video doing so up demonstrates), which would make it hard to regret doing so. Which makes the entry feel a bit shakey and an attempt to complain.
- "Since this video's release, I've gotten a lot of meaningful feedback about my segment later on with Lev. I really enjoyed Lev as a character, and wanted to offer a reading of Lev within the context of the game that would emphasize his importance in the script and his vividness as a character. However, the way I framed my argument was framed very poorly and steamrolled right over more nuanced critiques of the character from the transgender community. I'd like to apologize for being careless— I did mean well, and I wrote what I wrote out of an enthusiasm for the character and not an interest in speaking over more qualified voices.I'd like to recommend this article [link posted above] as a counter-perspective to the one I gave."
Either way, is this actually an example of OS? I thought that was supposed to be for works that a creator completely disavowed, and aside from the stickied comment I mentioned, there's no sign that's happened
Edited by Bisected8open"Note Natter"?
On the Hero's Slave Harem page, Tropers.Discar changed this section of the description:
By removing both notes, citing "Note Natter" as an edit reason.
I've never heard of "Note Natter" being a thing, although, I can certainly see how notes could be irrelevant to an example. However, this isn't an example — it's the description — and on a trope HEAPED with tons of Unfortunate Implications. IMO, the notes (the second one, at least) were extremely important for explaining exactly why the trope is so contentious.
Edited by NubianSatyressopen Omega Character Page Western Animation
I would like to argue against the inclusion of Ambiguous Gender Identity on the official character page for Omega of The Bad Batch. Throughout the entire show she has been presented as female and identified as such by other characters. She was identified as female in the very first episode by Tech who specifically said that he was looking at her DNA. In the episode "Bounty Lost" Tech explains that she has unaltered Jango DNA. Tech referred to the alterations in question as rapid aging, and increased obediance. Furthermore this trope implies that Omega herself is unsure what her gender is, when she has been presenting herself as female throughout the entire show. She did not correct Cad Bane when he referred to her as "little lady" nor did she do it to anyone else that referred to her as a girl. The point here is that there is no ambiguity that Omega sees herself as female regardless if she was born that way or not. There is absolutely no problem with fan interpretations of her as transgender but it should be delegated to the YMMV page.
openDisagreement over rerailment
So lately, user Bowbowis and I have been in disagreement over Sonic Forces. He adds the following:
- Character Rerailment:
- Knuckles is a Reasonable Authority Figure as the leader of the Resistance, restoring some of his dignity after years of Badass Decay and Flanderization. Even when his plan to assault the capital city literally goes sideways, it's because of an unprecedented display of power from Infinite, rather than genuine stupidity on Knuckles' part. The "guardian of the Master Emerald" thing is still ignored though.
- Forces returns Shadow to the levelheaded and heroic (if not always friendly) personality he had in Heroes and '06, in contrast previous Sonic media of the 2010s, where he's portrayed as more of a petty thug.
I've disagreed with these statements for a while now, because Character Rerailment, as I understand it, refers to when a character returns to their original characterization, not to any form of dignity. In the case of Knuckles, he was never a team leader, much less the leader of an army; if anything, this example is just further Character Derailment, as it feels a different character was written with Knuckles's face and name.
Just because he is taken "seriously" (despite the fact he commits one stupid mistake because he planned the operation in a minute and a half) is just further derailment to me. Heck, the entry itself aknowledges that the "guardian of the Master Emerald" thing is ignored. despite being core of Knuckles character, with him being a treasure hunter the second core.
Likewise, the only form of rerailment involving Shadow is his interpretation in a racing game from 2010 where he was a petty thug, and even then he returned to his established characterization by the next main line game (Generations). This entry also adds a different incarnation of Shadow that has no place in here. This would be like saying the PS 4 Spider-man is Character Rerailment compared with the MCU Spider-man; a false equivalent. So Shadow is shoehorned in this entry because of a AU spin-off.
I cut these entries off with my judgement (and I'll admit I was a bit rude, mostly calling the 2010 game "stupid") twice, and it has been re-added twice.
I cut another entry involving Amy, mostly because someone has been adding the same entry every time she appears, pretending she still has her Sonic Battle characterization. So far, no one has brought it up again.
Edited by TomodachiopenPoor grammar again
The Lampshade Hangerman uses very bad grammar. Here's an
example: "After Recieving tons of Hate-mail, which THANKFULLY have been Filtered and scanned for Biological Weapons like Anthrax by the Japanese Post Office; He gets A Fan-Letter from a guy from Norway named Bjorn who has written that he, his family, and Norway itself Loves him; even sending him a box of foreign sweets, and A Scarf modeled after the Norwegian Flag" (Note the lack of punctuation at the end.)
openMisuse of AssPull? Complaining?
Tavernier just added several examples of Ass Pull to Digimon Adventure tri., all of which beginning with "Man, it sure is lucky that..." I don't think any of these are valid, since Ass Pull is for twists that are not properly foreshadowed; yet these entries are mostly complaining about certain events, as you can see below.
- Man, it sure is lucky that Taichi somehow survived the same fall that left Daigo bleeding half to death—and without a scratch, even! It's like he's wearing armor made of hardest plot. Either Plot Armor or Fridge Logic
- Man, it sure is lucky that Taichi and Daigo somehow fell smack dab into this conspicuous underground laboratory that just so happens to be a bastion of Team Yggdrasil's activities. A rather contrived way to move the plot, maybe; but definitely not a twist.
- Man, it sure is lucky that Taichi and Daigo somehow found the missing 02 kids and Gennai being held captive in stasis. They didn't even have to look that hard! This is a direct consequence of the preceding event.
- Man, it sure is lucky that this underground laboratory in the digital world is apparently immune to the recent digital world reboot. No need to worry about what happens to rebooted humans! Fridge Logic
- Man, it sure is lucky Wizarmon somehow showed up in Hikari's dreams to lead her to Gatomon despite no longer having a connection to either of them since the reboot wiped out his memory. This is both factually wrong and explained in-universe. The character in question is shown to be a spirit in the prequel series, hence why he was not affected by the reboot.
- Man, it sure is lucky that Meicoomon was somehow storing backup data for all the rebooted digimon, hiding it behind an encrypted password. It's nice to know the reboot won't have any consequences. This was actually properly foreshadowed, since Meicoomon not losing her memories implied she had stored the missing data inside herself. And it's also wrong, since the reboot DID have lasting consequences (bringing back every previous antagonist back to life, for example).
Should something be done?
Edited by TantaMontyopenQuestionable Entry
On Breast Expansion, in the Web Originals tab, there's an entire section for the Breast Expansion Archive, which is... almost certainly a fetish website. I'm a bit unsure of whether or not to remove the entry because some of the stories do seem to be more than just the fetish (one of them even has its own page), but on the other hand, it feels a bit weird to have a huge entry be solely from a fetish site with only one story having its own page. What do you guys think?
Edit: The stories themselves are listed as separate sub-entries, so it appears to be listing the stories as the actual entries, not the site itself.
Edited by idonomopenIffy AHT entry
- The series regulary downplays, justifies and/or outright ignores the horrors of Communism and Islamic terrorism. Yes, it is Political Correctness Gone Mad taken up to eleven.
Seems overly inflammatory (and possibly inaccurate or at least Vocal Minority) to me.
Edited by Chabal2openFridge pages
On Fridge pages, I sometimes notice users treating them like Headscratchers 2.0 and putting in questions in their bullet points, even if they're to answer them in the following sentence. Is this allowed? I'd assume that Fridge should refrain from asking questions within the entries and only call attention to things about the work that make sense in context which the series itself never lampshades.
openThis Wiki as audience reaction proof?
I will be adding this to TooBleakStoppedCaring.Fan Works per Cleanup
.
- The Dear Sweetie Belle Continuity shifting to foreshadowing/setting up an apocalyptic conflict has put off many who enjoyed the series character-driven Slice of Life, especially since the characters it made them so attached to are now at high risk of getting unhappy endings. Not helping is said conflict is being caused in part by the controversial actions of the series more controversial characters while likable characters are denied agency, most notoriously Pinkie Pie dying of unspecified causes prior. The first story fully set in this darker direction, The Changelings Have a King, had a high body count and higher ratio of dislikes to likes than any other work in the seres. While later works were much better received, their having only one-fifth the likes shows a large majority, all save the most dedicated fans, stopped caring about the series to the point its cancelation went largely without notice.
I was thinking of adding that, despite having a tropes page, it took nearly a year for this wiki to acknowledge its cancelation as more evidence its fans/readers have stopped caring. Would that be OK to add if it is only secondary evidence to the primary out of wiki proof? Or should such be avoided if unnecessary (there's other proof enough) and/or overly myopic/self-referential? (I asked the cleanup but they seemed mixed on it.)
openSubpages for episodes
What If…? (2021) has two episodes so far, each one with a page in the recap namespace. Those episodes have their own YMMV and Trivia subpages. Is it correct, or should those items be moved to the YMMV and Trivia sections of the series itself?
openOdd edits for a story
I found Fanfic.The Little Lock That Could, and while the page itself was alright, I noticed that the subpages were in... rough shape, to say the least. Some issues include:
- Entries that are just blank bullet points (see here
and here
)
- A page that initially was just framework
(and it still has the templates).
- Pages that don't specify a franchise (Characters.Minor Characters and Characters.Major Characters - probably not an issue, but it's still irritating)
- Pages being updated in real time
(not really sure how to phrase it, but the page description itself gives updates on the story that would be more suited for a trivia page)
- And the subpage that convinced me to make this post, Memes.The Little Lock That Could. Not only is it very short for a subpage (only four entries), but it also has a total of seven images on it (the character pages also have some issues with multiple images in one folder, but this is the most extreme example I saw).
I noticed that most of this was done by one person (Tropers.Divoratore), but they haven't edited since October 2020.
Edited by idonomopenUser restoring audience reactions to work pages (with occasional rudeness).
I've recently been attempting to scrub mentions of audience reactions (from both fans and critics) from past work pages that I made or otherwise contributed to in an attempt to bring them in-line with the site's rules about work pages. I myself was unaware of the "no audience reactions" rule until then, which is why it took so long. However, Nicky99 has been systematically adding them back in, apparently unaware that critical responses count as audience reactions/value judgements; the few edit summaries they left also sounded aggressive/defiant in tone (such as this one
, this one
, and especially this one
).
I tried sending them a PM about it, but it's been a couple days and they haven't responded or reverted their restorations despite continued activity on the site; I don't want to risk an edit war.
Edited by bowserbrosopenHow do we refer to characters with multiple pronouns?
I recently came across our page for Friday Night Fever, which has a bigender character, Taki. Nearly all of the examples regarding her constantly switch from using she/her and he/him in the same example, and it's honestly confusing. So that got me thinking: how do we refer to characters with multiple pronouns? Do we stick to one set page wide or just keep it consistent in an example itself (like referring to a character with they/he pronouns as he in one example for a trope, and they in an example for another trope)?
openContemplating Cut Lit for this page
The Headscratchers page for ''The Marvelous Misadventures of Flapjack'' questions nothing about the show itself and rather focuses on its supposed cancellation/ending, in a complaining matter. I'm not sure though if it's completely justified to send to the Cut List, as it does ask questions related to the show, albeit not its in-universe content.
Edited by TVGuy2001openThis Troper talk on Headcsratchers and WMG
Are we allowed to use "I", "me", or "myself" on Headscratchers and WMG pages? I always thought that was the norm since these pages are more subjective in nature than those with trope examples.
openPossible cut
On The Wiz, There's this listed under Older Than They Think
- For one (fairly conservative) online reviewer, The Wiz Live! was apparently tainted with the violence of black culture, thus making it less family friendly from the "original 1939 version", due to Dorothy being prompted to murder the witch (as opposed to stealing her broomstick). Ironically, that only occurred in the 1939 film, which isn't the original Wizard Of Oz. In the original book, the Wizard really does tell Dorothy to straight up murder the Wicked Witch, who at that point wasn't even actively a threat to her. This act of violence wasn't added to the story of The Wiz Live! due to it being a black casted show. It was always there from when the story was originally written.
Would it really count as YMMV if the writeup itself states that it was only one person rather than a group of people and it doesn't even give any names as to who or what said it?
Edited by nwotyzalopenTropes of one work on the subpages of another
I'm having a disagreement with Spectacular Troper over the content on Infinity Train: Blossoming Trail and the other fanfic pages made by the same author. They've reverted some of the edits I've made, so I wanted to bring this here so that it doesn't become an edit war.
Infinity Train: Blossoming Trail has a lot of trope subpages, which list not only examples from the work itself, but also examples from its sequel and prequel, which already have their own pages. I want to move those examples to the pages of those works: SpectacularTroper does not. Is it okay to move those examples?

I found an entry for The Scrappy on the Say Yes to the Dress page that I must question.
The entry says Randy is very full of himself and makes inappropriate comments toward the brides. In the episodes that I've watched, none of this behavior occurs. He's flamboyant, sure, but he gets along wonderfully with the brides and whomever they've brought along with them. I also looked up reviews for the show and people seem to agree: Randy is a decent guy who really cares about helping others.
Since YMMV is a general opinion and not just one person's (in this case, mine), I'd like to know other's thoughts on this. Should the entry be removed, reworked, or kept?
Edited by HMSquared