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openPossible edit war on Overshadowed By Controversy?
On September 6th, the troper ooh added this entry
on OvershadowedByControversy.Real Life for infamous activist Louis Farrakhan:
- Louis Farrakhan of the Nation of Islam has long been known less for his support for Black equality and more for his support for Black nationalism, his open contempt for Caucasians, Jews, gays, and feminists, among others, and for making a comment praising Hitler. The fact that he may have incited the assassination of Malcolm X hasn’t helped his reputation, either. As such, the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) has deemed the Nation of Islam as a hate group. Many politicians do their level best to avoid ties with Farrakhan, and those that do have had their careers destroyed as a result.
Four days later, Chrononaut70 edited
the section to remove the part that I bolded, with the reason "In regards to Louis Farrakhan, the man himself considers Jews to be termites and whites to be less than human, and he prefers to have a black-only society separate from other races".
14 hours after Chrononaut's edit, DongwaChan edited
the section adding what was essentially a rewrite of the bolded part ("less for his influence in the black equality movement and more")... only for Dongwa to remove it almost six minutes later.
I'm not sure if this constitutes as an edit war but something appears to be going on.
Edited by SkylaNoivernopenCharacter limits for multi-character character pages
I wanted to ask if the 40,000 byte minimum for splitting off new character pages only applies to pages for single individuals or for groups as well. For example — say that there's a character page for The Adventures of Alice and Bob, with a section for Alice's gang and a section for Bob's gang. If Alice's folder, by itself, has less than 40k characters, it doesn't get a page. If the folders for Alice's gang, put together, also count less than 40k characters, does the ban still apply or can the group be split off into its own character page anyway?
openCreating Pages
How does one create a page? I've noticed a couple of notable things(e.g. movies, bands) that are hardly even mentioned on here, much less have their own page. I'd like to try it myself, but I don't know how or if I'm even allowed to.
openWhat if alternate Reed Richards was awesome?
The animated series What If…? (2021) had a list of examples of Alternate Universe Reed Richards Is Awesome.
- Alternate Universe Reed Richards Is Awesome: Part of the premise of What If...? focuses on alternate versions of MCU characters, some of whom are far more powerful or stronger than their main timeline counterparts.
- Peggy Carter became a British super-soldier that took down HYDRA during World War II and saved Bucky Barnes from falling and losing his arm. She also stopped a giant Kraken from destroying the Earth and would reemerge in the present day to join the Avengers Initiative.
- Exaggerated with T'Challa as Star-Lord. Not only did he outshine his Sacred Timeline self and Peter as Star-Lord in every way possible, but he has also saved countless planets, including Drax's which means his family is still alive, and has become a well known and respected Robin Hood type hero throughout the galaxy by 2008. He even convinced Thanos to do a Heel–Face Turn.
- In the same episode with T'Challa, due to Thanos turning good the Collector takes his place as the Big Bad of the MCU and is implied to have killed, Captain America, Thor and Hela. Downplayed however as he was defeated far more easily than Thanos was in the Sacred Timeline by T'Challa.
- A rare example where a character became more awesome by going through a Face–Heel Turn with Hank Pym, who, out of vengeance for the death of Hope during a SHIELD mission, kills all the founding members of the Avengers but Captain America.
- In What If… Doctor Strange Lost His Heart Instead of His Hands?, Strange Supreme is incredibly powerful after centuries of absorbing the power of creatures from other dimensions (to the point he can actually perceive Uatu as he watches events unfold and defeat his good variant created by the Ancient One) all he accomplishes in his quest to bring back his girlfriend Christine is the complete destruction of his universe. Essentially he's what Strange would have become if he allowed his arrogance and fear of failure rule his actions.
I removed all of them, and said "All the examples are misuse. Alternate Universe Reed Richards Is Awesome is Reed Richards Is Useless being averted in an alternate universe, not about an alternate character being more "awesome" than the original". It was restored later saying "Laconically, Alternate Reed Richards Is Awesome is about an Alternate Self making changes to their world that their original version cannot. Examples for this trope on its own page also include the likes of alternate selves doing much bigger things than their original counterparts, whether good or bad. So I don't believe this trope is misuse." None of the examples explain changes about the world's setting, only changes in the dynamic of the characters, and the trope's expanded definition should take priority over the laconic entry.
By the way, as I checked the article history I noticed a mistake from my part: I removed examples of Not As You Know Them also as misuse, and now I removed examples of Same Character, But Different, misuse as well, but I did not notice that those were the same examples repurposed to another trope. Meaning, I accidentally made an edit war. I apologize if this was wrong, and please comment on this other as well.
Edited by GrigorIIopenHyperbolic Mess Chamber
I was looking through some cases of Bold Inflation when I stumbled across SerialEscalation.Live Action Films which is filled with unnecessary ALL CAPS, word cruft, over-the-top gushing, and at least one example that I'm pretty sure doesn't qualify (I'm pretty sure Avatar didn't serially escalate from anything). Is this the sort of thing we should do a cleanup for? I'd take a swing at it myself, but I'm not super familiar with a lot of these franchises.
Edited to clarify the page in question, instead of just a vague link.
Edited by Afterwordopen Plot Hole example or not?
This example I added awhile back to Recap.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic S 6 E 26 To Where And Back Again Part 2 was removed.
- Plot Hole: Chrysalis's Evil Plan is revealed to be to replace and impersonate the most beloved beings in Equestria, including Celestia and Luna, to feed off the citizens love of them "for generations!" But it's unexplained how they could have kept up the act for more than a day as Celestia and Luna are required to raise the sun and moon each day and night, a power changelings lack. It was also night when they were captured but day immediately after their release.
It was cut citing "This sounds less like a Plot Hole and more like Didn't Think This Through on Chrysalis's part." It's not Didn't Think This Through which requires the lack of thought be shown or addressed in work which isn't the case.
I thought it was valid as there's seemingly no way the Evil Plan couldn't have collapsed on itself so quickly the heroes wouldn't need to rush to stop it or not trust others as it would soon be exposed to the masses. They don't even bring it up when explaining their urgency (like what would happen to the captives afterward) or when they're trying to talk the villains out of it.
Might be this more Fridge Logic as it's indirect to the main plot/conflict?
openDeadman and Lobo need de-self demonstrating
So I was looking through the Comicbook section of SelfDemonstrating.Character Pages and I noticed that Deadman and Lobo are the only pages that don't actually have work pages. They need to be de-self demonstrated. I haven't read the comics myself so i cant do the work myself. What does everyone else think?
openAppearance-related tropes and live-action works
So... Is there any rule that appearance-related tropes (Older Than They Look, Younger Than They Look) or voice tropes (Vocal Dissonance, for when the live action character's voice is the same as their actor's) cannot be added to live-action works if they also apply to the character's actor and are thus by extension meta examples? I'm sure there's some exception if the character mentions something in-universe about their appearance, but still live-action works show what the actors look like and aren't unique to the work itself, especially if the actor is going through puberty or just happens to have some physical differences out of the norm for their age.
Edited by TVGuy2001openIs "Notable" Word Cruft in any fashion?
Mainly talking about the usage of the word itself in the wiki and if it falls under Word Cruft, given the existence of There Is No Such Thing as Notability.
open"Has a Point" misuse? Must explain how point is intentional?
- Dragon Ball Z provides a considerably dark example during the Cell Saga, when Gohan, in a state of Revenge Before Reason, deliberately drags his Curb-Stomp Battle with Cell out solely because he wanted him to suffer as much as possible for his crimes. While Goku and the other Z-Fighters are rightfully horrified and urge him to finish Cell off right away, Gohan is far from wrong that Cell deserved every second of it, considering the fact that he drank 600,000 innocent people, killed thousands of others in cold blood, and fully intended to hunt down and kill every last human on Earth while savoring their terror and despair.
I think this might be misuse as, while Cell deserved such, Gohan dragging it out gave Cell time to recover, nearly destroy the world necessitating Goku's sacrifice, and still came back more dangerous than ever. Gohan himself realized it was a terrible mistake afterward. It fails to say if they acknowledged Gohan's argument Cell deserved such was legit but my vague recollection of the series is no they didn't.
Should/does this, along with Jerkass Has a Point, Villain Has a Point, and Dumbass Has a Point, require in-work characters acknowledging such like with What the Hell, Hero?? And/or require in-work evidence it was intended to be a legit point?
Edited by Ferot_DreadnaughtopenProcedure for Renaming Works / Subpages
I apologize if this has already been asked somewhere, though I tried looking without success. I know that there is a thread on the forum for fixing capitalization errors for different work pages and sub-pages, but I couldn't really find such a thing for correcting other errors, such as a recap page having the wrong season labeled (as I have seen in Codename Kids Next Door S 3 E 5 Operation CAKEDFOUR) or a work page having the wrong namespace. What is the procedure for that? Is that something I should report or is it something I can change myself?
Edited by flyingj138openVinesauce Characters Page Reversion Request (No Longer Needed) Web Original
So, on August 23rd someone tried to restructure the Characters page for Vinesauce, but they've sadly done a bit of a botch job of it and made a mess of the page layout. If it's alright, could I please request a reversion to before those edits were made? It would really save me or someone else the trouble of having fix such major edits manually. Also, sorry if I've done this wrong. I've never done this before and I'm just going on the advice of someone on the discussion page. Edit: Never mind,since this post got no attention I just decided to give it some elbow grease and fix the page myself. Hopefully I did a good enough job.
Edited by BootlegSkeletonopenWhy not HoYay? What is it then?
Question about this from HoYay.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic that was brought to HoYay cleanup
and cut.
- For World Pride Day, Ashleigh Ball posted some Appledash fanart that she had signed personally.
- One comment joked that Ball, who voices both characters, was shipping herself with herself.
I get removing it as it's not unintended subtext. But if so I'm confused why the Word of God intentional Ship Tease between them in the Series Finale and intentional subtext between AJ and Rarity in the Equestria Girls series are still listed? Also from the page:
- Even her VA, Tara Strong, is getting in on it. Claiming that Twilight's "deep dark secret" is her crush on Pinkie Pie when asked at the MLP Panel at San Diego Comic Con 2018.
Is it not Ho Yay because it's not about subtext in the work itself? Not within plausible deniability like the retained examples? Or was there some other reason?
That there actress is aware and approves of the ship is likely a reason for the subtext in their interaction and contributed to it being upgraded to Ship Tease in the finale. Even if not Ho Yay it's seems relevant/contributing enough to it that it should be mentioned somewhere. Ideas where? Approval of God?
I also asked here
, but this may be a wider issue that would benefit from wider feedback.
openMark Twain YMMV Literature
Please unlock the YMMV for Mark Twain. I intend to crosswick an approved CM entry for a work which does not exist on the wiki.
- Complete Monster (King Leopold's Soliloquy): King Leopold presents himself as a vicious hypocrite and sanctimonious tyrant who subjects the Free State of the Congo to horrific depravity. Having countless people killed and entire regions depopulated, Leopold demands high taxes and production rates from his supposed subjects, cutting off limbs or even castrating others who cannot meet them. Having people tortured and murdered in huge numbers, Leopold notes one of his mistakes was to have sixty innocents crucified and remarks fewer people would care if he'd them skinned. Uncaring of anything but lining his pockets, Leopold shows his only sympathy is to himself, indifferent to the half-million corpses he has left in his rush for money.
openTV Tropes as a Reliable Source of Information
I've recently seen some folks around other sites criticizing TV Tropes as a poor source of information (in the same way Wikipedia is frequently called as an unreliable source by people). In fact, I myself have been accused of adding false/erroneous information to the site (and I know for a fact that I've made my share of mistakes before - and fixed them).
Regardless, of it got me thinking. Since TV Tropes is a Wiki (and thus considered a reputable source of information by certain people), how do we control the veracity of information added to this site in edits, especially regarding obscure shows and behind-the-scenes info? And SHOULD we monitor this kind of stuff?
In theory, somebody could add false (or even damaging) info to a page for an obscure TV show with little traffic (or to a similarly little-visited page for Useful Notes or something similar), and it could remain there for years if nobody knows enough to verify the info. Heck, a person could probably even make a page for a show that doesn't exist and claim it's lost media, or even add an example that never actually occurred in the slightest.
I'm not saying we need to add a citations system or anything, but I am wondering if there is something that can be done about people trying to add false/damaging information (other than some editor randomly stumbles on it anywhere between a few days to a few years after it got added and removes it), especially since doing so could be beneficial to the reputation and integrity of this site.
I've browsed TV Tropes for years, and the site's become a lot more formal over that time, so maybe improving ourselves as a reputable source is the next step? Misinformation is a seriously problem on the Internet, after all.
openMatricide/Self-Made Orphan Sub/Supertrope
I posted this question on the Matricide discussion page a few days ago and didn't get any responses:
Why is Matricide listed as a subtrope of Self-Made Orphan? Not everyone who commits matricide is a self-made orphan (their other parent could still be alive). I think it would make more sense the other way around, but even that doesn't seem totally accurate (a character who never had a mother or whose mother was previously killed by something else could still be a Self-Made Orphan).
Also, is there a better place for future one-off questions/suggestions about trope descriptions?
Edited by indigoJayopenColons or hyphens?
On the page for Fan Nickname/Hololive, all the examples are listed with a hyphen where you'd usually have a colon. Like this:
- Tokino Soda - Whenever she introduces herself, newcomers will often mishear her saying "Soda".
Is this acceptable?
resolved Trouble with Trivia/CodesAndGeassEmbracingYourInnerMegalomania
Hello again, little bit of an issue regarding the trivia page for this fanfic, and hopefully the last one I bring to ATT since I am attempting to disassociate myself from this fic.
The Trivia page is only meant for trivia, right? Well, the author of the work, Tropers/Trickster_Priest, has restored several tropes that were removed for not being trivia tropes. Namely two Useful Notes, BDSM and Oda Nobunaga, and one normal trope: Insistent Terminology. Shouldn't they be removed though since they are not trivia?
They have also removed two tropes, Dear Negative Reader and Hostility on the Set, and an entry for another trope, Creator's Pest, with no given reason whatsoever. Unless they are cases of misuse, isn't their removal not permitted under the ruling of The Fic May Be Yours, but the Trope Page Is Ours?
I apologize for troubling you, and thank you in advance for resolving this.
Edited by RebelFalconopenAbout Akame ga Kill Anime
Can someone fix the character list for Night Raid and Akame, please? It is getting confusing. All I see is Akame herself, but not the rest of the Night Raid.

Inspired by [https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=VideoGame.LegendOfMana#edit30094066
this edit]. Yes, I'm aware that he was correct on the fact that the section wasn't organized per TVT policy. I do, however, think that cutting it entirely without making any attempt to integrate it properly was not good. Furthermore, this is far from the only time I've seen self-appointed janitors muck up articles with hamfisted "cleanups."
Could we maybe get some kind of policy regarding this? Like don't take a weedwhacker to a page without trying to fix it up first, and if you muck the page up in the name of overzealous cleanups it's basically vandalism?