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openWonder Woman = Pinball Protagonist? Film
The DC Extended Universe version of Wonder Woman is classified as a Pinball Protagonist in her solo movie under this argument: "If Steve Trevor had escaped from the Germans without going through Themyscira, the world would have been exactly the same. He would have brought Dr. Poison's notebook to British High-Command, they would have ignored it, Steve would have recruited his friends to go after the chemical plant, Veld wouldn't have been liberated but it would still have been wiped out the next day, Steve would have tracked Ludendorf to the plant, and sacrificed himself to destroy the gas. The only significant thing Diana did was kill Ares, which didn't make much of a difference, since he only influenced humans to go to war with each other and create weapons of mass destruction, and humans continued to do that after he died anyway."
Is this true or just nitpicking?
openYGO Sevens Fridge removed by Jackpot for no obvious reason Anime
...Yeah, this again.
So I had put a bit of an expansion on a Fridge observation. This is an original.
...
During Yuga and Luke’s duel near the end of the Team Battle Royal Arc, they both use an old card that perfectly reflects their character’s: Luke used Pot of Greed, which lets him draw two cards for no cost, reflecting his huge ego and desire to be the best either blinding him to the real problems the characters are facing, or directly contribute to them. Yuga used Graceful Charity, which lets him draw three cards, but then has to discard two for the cost, reflecting his selfless nature to make dueling enjoyable and making sacrifices to help others. This is further exemplified during the Goha Siblings Arc, where Luke sided with Yuo without any hesitation under the belief he was the sixth sibling, while Yuga, after defeating The☆Lukeman, negotiates with Yuo to reinstate his siblings as president in exchange for him working for Goha.
...
This is what I added
...
- This is not the only way of reflecting on their characteristics. Yuga's use of Graceful Charity allows him to set up long term strategies with the graveyard, such as Kuribot and massing Level 7 monsters for his trap cards, showing his strategic mindset. Meanwhile Luke's preference for more simple and straightforward strategies is shown by him just drawing two cards. He gets what he needs without any side effects or costs in a straightforward but effective manner.
...
Jackpot removed it, and I have no idea why or for what. I don't see why as there are several tropes elsewhere in Sevens about how Yuga prefers more complicated strategies and Luke prefers simpler and straightforward ones and adding onto the above discussion with a second layer of how it reflects the two of them's preferences seems like it shouldn't be an issue. Expanding on fridge points with additional elements happens all the time, and I have no idea why Jackpot removed it.
Please assist.
(NOTE: I am specifically referring to the above Fridge. Jackpot's removed or messed with several edits of mine on other pages in both Sevens pages and Ladybug's fridge page recently, but I have discussions on their own pages about those incidents. This is specifically on this fridge issue only. Please keep it to this specific topic for Mod preferences).
Alleged Number1KirbyFan
openAccidentally messed up a page Anime
I was removing spoiler tags from TearJerker.Case Closed but something went wrong and there's a bunch of broken brackets in the page. I'm trying to fix my mistake myself but if a mod is reading this and can revert the edit then that would be helpful. Thanks
edit: fixed I think
Edited by N1KFopenQuestion about page clean up? Western Animation
I'd like to ask where I would go to post a request for a page or pages to be cleaned up? The pages related to Western Animation/Chaotic and it's subages need some serious adjustments as its still from the very earliest stages of TV Tropes, including stuff like "This Troper" and stuff like that.
I have no idea how to do it myself, so I'd like to leave it in the hands of people who can do it better
openCan I add a page to the No Real Life Examples?
I'd like to add the Conspicuous Consumption to the Gossip and Stereotypes page and delete the 'Real Life' section for the former. I certainly think it fits; the real life section is little more than a list of so-and-so celebrity owns a super-duper big mansion, or owns a super-duper big yacht, or a gold plated toilet, or such-and-such silly product exists.
Can I do this by myself, or do I need to go through some process first?
openTroper Report
So we've got a troper on the CM thread who's now hit strike three on a bit of a Single-Issue Wonk. Their name is Cartoon All Stars, and they seem very determined to get some CMs from Kamen Rider Saber. No problem in itself, but their way of going about it is just to keep asking the thread about it, even though they've been told multiple times to stop asking because none of the "regulars" watched it.
First they asked here
on the discussion day, only to be told that neither of the two people that reserved it ended up watching it. Then, they got aggressive about it
(the post was thumped, but it was "calling" the tropers that usually discuss the show to discuss it, even though they both said they didn't watch it). Then, they posted suggestions themselves
, at which point they were advised to check it out themselves - advice that they didn't take, because they just asked about it again
.
For what it's worth, asking the same question multiple times in spite of getting a response is not new behavior for them - they did the same with Aldrich Killian, where they asked about him
, got a response immediately
, then asked again later for no reason
. There's only so many ways we can ask someone to stop or just watch the work themselves before it becomes clear that they're not actually listening to what we say, and I don't really know what else can be done but ask for mod intervention at this point.
openIncredibles 2 Award Snub Western Animation
The Award Snub entry has been a contentious one for Incredibles 2, and has been added and deleted multiple times over the years.
Those that add it are fans of the franchise, jubilant over finally getting a sequel and are disappointed it didn't win the Best Animated Picture Oscar.
Those that remove it point out that it's not an Award Snub situation, Incredibles 2 ran against Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse which was universally acclaimed to be a groundbreaking achievement in animation. As such Incredibles 2 simply lost to a superior film.
We're in the situation of it being added back again with the troper, perkeez, insisting that "Some people preferred Incredibles 2. As long as some people agree with the entry, it belongs in YMMV."
I don't know if it's worth arguing that point, however, I think the entry as currently written is problematic:
- Award Snub: Incredibles 2 was a strong contender for the 2018 Best Animated Feature Academy Award, but was very unlucky another great animated film was released in the same year. It lost to Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse, which broke a six year run (2012-2017) of a Disney/Pixar film winning that category. Incredibles 2 only received 7 wins and 40 nominations compared to 40 wins and 71 nominations for Spider-Verse. In most other years, Incredibles 2 would have won the Academy Award.
Issues:
1) It leans very heavily into the presumption that if Spiderverse was not in the running then Incredibles 2 clearly would have won the award. In 2018 there were several equally good challengers. Wreck-It Ralph 2, Isle of Dogs, Incredibles 2. To imply that Incredibles 2 was the clear winner of those three, is speculation and doesn't need to be part of the example.
2) The line "broke a six year run" is just a trivia factoid that has nothing to do with Incredibles 2 being snubbed or not and kinda implies that Incredibles 2 was snubbed simply because of its Disney/ Pixar pedigree.
3) The wins/nominations statistics should be removed. While it illustrates how Spiderverse won more awards and thus won the Oscar, the gap between it and Incredibles 2 is quite large. Spiderverse won over 5 times the awards (40 vs 7) and had almost double the nominations (71 vs 40). These facts show just how much of an underdog Incredibles 2 was to winning the Oscar that year and undermines the case that an Award Snub even occurred at all.
I opened a discussion on this and three tropers participated (myself, perkeez, and Larkman) but we could not achieve a consensus.
Reference: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/remarks.php?trope=YMMV.Incredibles2#comment-141341
I suggested this wording to reflect the feedback of Larkman and myself... (Example A)
- Award Snub: Although Incredibles 2 was a solid candidate for the 2018 Best Animated Feature Academy Award, it lost to the equally great Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse. It was clearly a case of two strong films being in competition but There Can Be Only One and Spiderverse ran a clean sweep of the awards circuit that year.
Perkeez suggested this wording which takes into account issue #3. (Example B)
- Award Snub: Although Incredibles 2 was a solid candidate for the 2018 Best Animated Feature Academy Award, it lost to the equally great Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse, breaking a six year run (2012-2017) of a Disney/Pixar film winning that category. It was clearly a case of two strong films being in competition but There Can Be Only One and Spiderverse ran a clean sweep of the awards circuit that year. In most other years, Incredibles 2 would likely have won the Academy Award.
So I put before you:
A) Should Incredibles 2 even have an Award Snub entry at all?
B) If yes, which wording is the best for the example? Example A or Example B?
Edited by rva98014openAudience Reactions and Let's Players
I was reading the YMMV page for Game Grumps and noticed that several examples describe how one of the show's hosts reacted to another work. It strikes me as a bit odd, since I expected the article to describe Audience Reactions to Game Grumps itself. Could someone please clarify whether YMMV pages can be used to document the Let's Player's opinions? Thanks.
openYMMV page for Yashahime: Princess Half-Demon Anime
May I ask if a mod can look over the YMMV page for this series? For the last several months there has been an editing war going on there that I have participated in. I’m not going to make excuses for myself, but my goal in the edits has been to promote factual information about this series. However I was personally called out by Lancelot 07 in an edit on October 7th, which to me sounded like a threat against me making further edits. At this point I feel a mod needs to step in. I’m not going to make any further edits on this page, and if it’s felt that my conduct has been against website rules I will accept that. But I believe there needs to be intervention at this point.
open Other M
The Analysis page on Metroid Other M should be cut
. Or at least seriously overhauled.
To put it simply, that's not an unbiased analysis, it's an extensive review with a vested interest in "saving" the game. I went back in the history to try to find the undo point, but apparently the analysis page was created purely to host it.
This isn't the first time someone has gone out of their way to "explain away" the intense problems with Metroid: Other M and try to "clarify" how audiences who took issue with it "don't truly get it". The review itself - both on-page and the linked Lexicon Lookout review - are polite, sure, but also...wrong. They make many extrapolations that are more than generous, and they've bled out onto the other pages associated with Metroid: Other M. I'm planning on cleaning them up myself, but I don't know what to do with the Analysis page.
openTrope Feedback Request
Me and ~username2527 have a disagreement over three tropes I've recently removed from the Total Drama character pages and would like feedback to resolve it.
- Screaming Gophers: Justin
- Narcissist: He's always admiring his physique, and seems to carry a mirror with him everywhere he goes.
I changed this to pride because the trope description states that just being vain is not enough. And Justin lacks any of the detrimental aspects of narcissism, such as how once he thinks he's not beautiful anymore (and while he's vain, he's also a professional model, so his looks matter), he panics for a bit, but then just tries other things to make himself count and kinda goes with the flow.
Username 2527's argument is that he "has a sense of self importance and need for attention and admiration such examples include him frequently taking his shirt off to flash people, posing for the camera and he felt very upset when Lindsay and Beth stopped paying him any attention, believing that he was becoming ugly because the girls weren't gushing over him anymore."
- Race Lift: I moved the instances that concern prototype designs to What Could Have Been. Just to be sure, is Race Lift for adaptations only or do prototype designs also count?
- Toxic Rats: Lightning
- The Bad Guy Wins: In his ending of "Brain vs Brawn: The Final Showdown". Granted, the finale gave us a good few reasons to give him sympathy, too...and all of them are bad, and worst of all, he keeps the prize money to himself. Jo was most displeased.
As far as I'm concerned, A.) not a character trope and not a characterization-relevant event, and B.) very disputable example text.
There's also a C., which is relevant to my removal of the The Bad Guy Wins from the main page too. From what I understand from the trope description, the trope is only in effect in case of "complete and ultimate triumph for the villain". But every time a villain wins in TD, there's a catch, whether that is that they don't get the prize money in the end, that they get maimed, and/or that the finale reframes them as "not so bad". Lightning ends up badly injured (he's advised to spend the money on recovery) and there's a note that while winning prevents his relationship with his father from getting worse, it's not going to improve it. Meanwhile, the other finalist is leaving unharmed with a new outlook on life, new possibilities, and new friendships to enjoy.
So, the question is, is The Bad Guy Wins literally The Bad Guy Wins, or does the win need to be a triumphant one?
openRoleplay/DawnOfWorlds
Stumbled across this. It seems weird we have a page for a roleplay using the system but don't have one for the system itself? Is this normal?
openPreviews too recent to add?
YMMV.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic IDW Issue 100 To 102
- Author's Saving Throw: After Discord being white washed and made a wimp in comparison to the title villain in the Cosmos Arc drew much ire from fans, his pre-redemption self is once again depicted as being as cunning and monstrous as he was originally depicted. Namely, he manipulated no less than four countries into going to war with the Knights of Harmony's homeland and saw them as 'new toys' when they showed up.
- It's the Same, So It Sucks: The fact that it was caused by Discord again likewise didn't help with most fans getting annoyed writers keep making these crisises his fault. It's only alleviated that this one was at least before his Heel–Face Turn and not a deliberate action as in the TV Finale.
This is from the 3-page preview, it's releasing in a week. Does this means the AST violates it being no prerelease and/or the ITSSIS better fits Tainted by the Preview (I think it's unlikely there's room in the comic for the rest to change these but it's still possible).
I also ask if It's the Same, So It Sucks is the best fit for such complaints as half the entry is noting key differences and the AST notes some are happy with this villainy. I'd say cut for now as too soon to say how it will play out/go over in the final product. Maybe Never Live It Down or similar would fit better as the complains are less about similarities/tired cliches than it bringing up memories of something contentious despite very different and mitigating circumstances that are otherwise well received.
openSpoiler policy for fanfics
When troping fanfics, how should we treat spoilers for things that happened in canon? Do we treat them as, well, spoilers? Or do we assume that whoever is reading the page is familiar with whatever media the fanfic is for and thus only hide spoilers for the fanfic itself?
openWhat happened to the Franchise/Scream page (and can we get it back)?
Hey, I looked it up but couldn't see anything about this...I was trying to find the franchise page for the Scream films (1, 2, 3, 4, TV series, and the upcoming 5th). It was deleted to "correct the namespace", which I don't understand.
It's now under Scream, which I think is actually more confusing now that the IP itself has produced content other than films (e.g. the TV series), and especially since the 1996 original film was also called Scream (and the 2022 film has been announced to be called Scream as well). Other movies with similar audience and reach (e.g. A Nightmare on Elm Street) have their own "franchise" pages, and I think it would be better to either pothole Scream or make it for the original (the 1996 version), and give it a general Franchise entry for all the content.
Edited by harrietvangeropenPoor Grammar edits
Stardust 120 has been making edits with poor grammar and despite having previously been notified in a previous ATT, and myself via PM, still is having issues with grammar.
At this point, they may need more direct intervention.
openJohn Phoenix
So...Two different issues regarding the same fic.
The Adventures of John Phoenix was removed from the Ace Attorney Fanfic Recs here
by Mr-Coffee, with the reason "troll fic/not Ace Attorney charactter." I'm not sure this was a valid removal, for two reasons:
1. I don't recall there being a "No Troll Fic" rule for fic recs
. The only thing I see is that it needs to be noted as such, but I don't see anyhting saying they're not allowed (please inform me if I'm missing it).
2. "Not Ace Attorney character" doesn't seem like a valid removal for any fic rec—that would mean any OC fics aren't allowed to be recommended.
The other issue is that the page
for the fic itself is frankly just a mess. No alphabetization, punctuation and capitalization issues, etc. The character page should just be cut, because it's just a list of names with no tropes.
openDisputed Example on Dated History
I deleted the following example from Dated History because it was utterly pointless ("we thought this, but then someone said otherwise, but then that person was disproven" does not count as an example and is just cluttering up the page). Someone else put it back. Verdict?
- "No Irish need apply" signs were once thought to be a common sight across the United States until Richard J. Jensen wrote a 2002 paper arguing that they were mostly a myth and there was no significant anti-Irish discrimination in the American job market except by a handful of English immigrants who still held the Hibernophobic sentiments common in their homeland. That being said, this paper was itself disproven in a 2015 rebuttal by 8th-grade student Rebecca A. Fried, who listed numerous instances of American signs and advertisements bearing the phrase between the 1840s and the early 20th century.
openNew Self-Demonstrating Page
I want to make a new Self-Demonstrating page on Snapcube’s Dr. Eggman (“I’VE COME TO MAKE AN ANNOUNCEMENT”) Should I do that, and how do I do it?

So, I've looked on WebVideo.I Dubbbz TV to find that WebVideo.Content Cop exists. Problem is, I don't know if this page is troping real life. While Ian is certainly playing a character here, he's still going after real life people who've made problematic content on YouTube.
Be warned that there's quite a lot of mentions of hypocrisy in the examples I'm about to list.
I feel like the people who wrote these entries endorsed Ian's views on these subjects, thus have made it the wiki's viewpoint. I just don't think there's really any way of troping these people without making it seem we have anything against them.
So what should we keep these on the stipulation that we're troping Ian's interpretation of these people, or cut WebVideo.Content Cop for attracting real life troping of his subjects?
Edited by PlasmaPower