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openDisabled in the Adaptation Entry Question Live Action TV
This is on the Disabled in the Adaptation page. Unmarked spoilers ahead!
- The Walking Dead:
- Two surviving (as of this edit) characters from the source material, Sophia Peletier and Carl Grimes, both die in the show by becoming walkers.
My assumption is that in the show, Sophia becomes a walker and Carl shoots himself in the head to prevent himself from reanimating. And even then, is this really an example since the two characters in the entry clearly don't demonstrate any disabilities while they're alive. Thanks.
openCut trope being re-added (and other misuse?)
Hodor For King added this to YMMV.Elysium
- Some Anvils Need to Be Dropped: There has been a [[defence https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/whats-the-most-cringeworthy-alternate-history-youve-ever-read.47523/page-758?post=22129077#post-22129077
]]of the supposed lack of subtlety of the film:
Elysium seems stark to us because there's no massive propaganda machine in the movie itself constantly telling us that the system of the people of the Elysium universe Is A Good Thing, Actually. We're not automatically primed to dismiss the concerns of the people of Earth in Elysium in that sense.But let's be honest with ourselves - Elysium is happening right now. Millions of people go without life-saving medical care in America for want of a way for them to personally pay for it. It's not this way because there aren't enough medical resources to go around - America spends more resources per capita than anyone else in the industrial world to get worse health outcomes. It's this way because it is profitable for the ruling class to keep it this way.
I removed it as SANTBD is now a redirect to Anvilicious which is already on the page. They immediately added it back, adding the current quote explains why (still misuse as it's not about the importance/relevancy but the heavy handedness improving the delivery). I just PM'd them about it and they were unaware of it now being a redirect. Letting you know before re-removing, should I re-cut now?
Also, this:
- They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot: General consensus is that the film has a great concept that just wasn't fully fleshed out enough. The director himself agreed.
TWAPGP is about unused plots, not poorly used. It doesn't give enough context to say but I suspect misuse as the Anvilicious entry means the issues are intended to be front and center. Any objections to cutting?
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
openFirst Person Writing on Rhymes on a Dime
So, in the Real Life section of Rhymes on a Dime, some troper(s) decided to write a couple of examples as a Self-Demonstrating Article:
- Nipsey Russell could pull off a couplet at just the drop of a hat. Name another talented person who could ever do just that.
- Wayne Brady, lady?
- Not just him, but most of the the guests on both versions of Whose Line Is It Anyway? Josie Lawrence was particularly good at this type of play.
- I could argue, I guess, but it's not worth the ink; I'll just say it's not quite as hard as you think.
- If you're a Knick fan, you're used to hearing it from Walt "Clyde" Frasier, man.
Normally I would delete as an instance of First-Person Writing as it is a violation of wiki rules, but in this case it is clearly part of the self-demonstrating style. What should I do?
openDEATH BATTLE! Fridge Horror cleanup Web Original
The "Character Death Consequences" on DEATH BATTLE!'s Fridge page compose almost all of the Fridge Horror section's examples, with only a small handful of examples being about something else in a different folder. However, the show clearly states how the animations are pure Spectacle, with the specifics of the animation not meant to reflect what should happen in a fight. The page itself acknowledges this fact in its Fridge Brilliance section, as does TV Tropes itself in Pantheon.Acts Of War. With how much these examples are bogging the page down, I suggest moving them to a separate page.
openEdit War on the YMMV page for Inside Job
So troper Johnny Be Bad deleted this example from the YMMV page for Inside Job:
Trans Audience Interpretation: Reagan is occasionally read as a transwoman for a couple reasons. The first episode establishes that she has a habit of saying "suck my dick" a lot for a woman, the fourth episode includes a robotic replica of herself that is notably more feminine, her diploma uses male pronouns and has her name written by hand, and, perhaps most notably, the 8th episode has Rand offhandedly mention that he tampered with her genetics when she was in the womb to make sure his genetics were dominant. That said flashbacks to Reagan's childhood in the finale seem to contradict this, unless Reagan transitioned extremely early or her memories have been further tampered with.
This was their justification:
- Don't strain your back reaching like that.
They then started this thread
to discuss Trans Audience Interpretation. The general consensus of the thread was that Johnny Be Bad's edit reason was unnecessarily mean, but that the example wasn't valid to begin with.
Troper Sana Naryon then re-added the example with this justification:
- Trans Audience Interpretation is not a theory, it's an interpretation. I'll reach however long I damn well please, and I know for a fact a lot of people agree with me. Also, those What An Idiot examples are more about Rand being an idiot In-Universe, which is perfectly in character for him, instead of him acting stupid for no reason.
To me this seems like someone using the YMMV page to push their own personal headcanon. During the thread discussing this example, someone did a google search and found no proof of fans thinking Reagan was trans.
openComplainy edits about the Pokemon DP anime
Tavernier has recently been making a lot of edits to Pokémon the Series: Diamond and Pearl — Cast, specifically about the character Paul, many of which I feel are either highly nitpicky or demonstrate heavy negative bias against the character. I deleted several of them the other day for reasons listed here
, but Tavernier quickly added multiple of them back with new reasoning and then some. So to avoid an Edit War, I'm bringing them up here. To expand on a few:
- Depending on the Writer: Paul spends his anime tenure Diamond and Pearl being all over the place. How much of a jerk he is, how much he respects others, how much he respects his pokémon, how much he respects his brother, his analysis of what actually happens in battle and what causes it—these all change from episode to episode without cause or warning.
I'll start off with this entry. This one wasn't readded after I removed it, but I still bring it up because it's factually untrue to an extreme degree. As I pointed out in my edit, Paul is a character who, unlike virtually any other character in the anime's run, was near-exclusively written by a single person — Atsuhiro Tomioka wrote about 90% of the Paul-focused episodes in the series, so if there's any trope that doesn't apply to him, it's Depending on the Writer. I feel like that's a rather big red flag of misunderstanding already. In all my years of dealing with debates about Paul, I've never heard even a single other person, no matter how much they hated him, call him an inconsistent character.
- Strong as They Need to Be: Paul's assessment of Azumarill's weakness wouldn't be such a sticking point if Azumarill's loss at Roark's gym weren't so blatantly engineered by the writers—Roark's Geodude was apparently trained to use Hidden Power such that it not only blocks Hydro Pump but knocks Azumarill down long enough that Geodude could get two free hits of Rollout in.
Tavernier also seems to be particularly hung over the Geodude vs. Azumarill battle in DP015, where Azumarill's Hydro Pump is overpowered by Geodude's Hidden Power and finished off by two Rollout hits. When I deleted the above entry, they added
these instead:
- Ambiguous Situation: There are two competing explanations for Azumarill's loss to Geodude—Brock speculates that it's because Roark trained Geodude especially well, while Paul decides that Azumarill itself was just weak. The series does not judge in favor of either interpretation.
- Strong as They Need to Be: A key part of Paul's early Character Development and his conflict with Ash was his decision to release an Azumarill for supposedly being unimprovably weak after it lost in Roark's gym—however, the loss in question was the result of the anime putting Azumarill on the receiving end of this trope; after setting Azumarill up to dish out a Curb-Stomp Battle (with its type-advantage and Hydro Pump), the writers let Geodude stomp Azumarill instead and then had Brock Hand Wave it by speculating that Roark trained Geodude to beat Water-types.
This... doesn't change anything about my stance. Like I said in my edit, this type of thing happens all the time in the anime. Hidden Power beat out Hydro Pump to show that Geodude was stronger, and Azumarill was finished by Rollout because it wasn't strong enough to recover and counterattack. Frankly, it feels like they're trying to make the whole situation seem way more complex than it really is. Azumarill wasn't naturally powerful, so it easily fell to a Rock-type that had been trained to deal with Water-types. Paul, who at the time was still only concerned with power, deemed it worthless and got rid of it.
- Karma Houdini: Paul somehow gets away with badmouthing his Azumarill in front of Roark, who doesn't react at all. In earlier episodes, Gym Leaders and other officials would scold Trainers who did this.
I deleted this one for being far too small of an offense, so they proceeded to instead add an extensive list
of Paul's misdeeds that didn't go directly punished. I will say that most of them are technically accurate, and I'm well aware that Paul's situation with karma is the main source of his Base-Breaking Character status. But again, my counterargument still stands: first off, every jerk rival had numerous petty douche moments that weren't called out. But also, according to the page itself, Karma Houdini is mainly supposed to be for finished works where the character never received any form of comeuppance, which does not apply to Paul in the slightest. Going over each entry individually in bold:
- Karma Houdini: From being unkind and a terrible sport to acts of abuse, Paul gets away with a lot of misbehavior in the early part of the series.
- In DP046, Ash, Dawn, and Brock are separated from one another and each happens to encounter Paul while trying to find the others. Each time, one of the heroes asks Paul if he's seen the others, only for Paul to tell each of them no in turn, which in the case of Dawn and Brock is a straight-up, certified lie. This isn't brought up at all when the heroes reunite. This was such a small act of annoyance in a completely nonserious filler that's it's a nitpick at best.
- The Hearthome City Battle Competition (DP050-DP052) offers a hearty helping of Paul's cruelty, none of which he gets punished for. This here's the big one. Paul's lack of immediate punishment during this arc is probably the single biggest source of debate behind him. However, regardless of how you feel about it, the fact remains that Paul did receive karma for these actions (albeit much later): that he lost to the very Pokemon that he abused and released in the Sinnoh League. It's Karma Houdini Warranty at bare minimum.
- Paul's vicious attempts to harness Chimchar's Defense Mechanism Superpower: throwing Chimchar into intense danger, having his own pokémon attack it, and even deliberately forcing it to relive its own trauma by putting it against a Zangoose.
- When the heroes and even a Nurse Joy insist Paul let Chimchar rest and recover from the suffering it has endured at Paul's hands, Paul apparently agrees, only to throw Chimchar into the next battle and reveal he was only pretending so people would get off his back.
- During one battle, Paul—whose attempts to put Chimchar through this training have been continuously thwarted by Ash—demands Chimchar attack Ash's Turtwig.
- When a traumatized Chimchar fails to activate its Defense Mechanism Superpower in the heat of the moment, Paul turns his back on Chimchar and the battle, leaving Ash to try and command both Turtwig and Chimchar and salvage victory. Paul later kicks Chimchar off of his team and spitefully tells Ash and Chimchar that they deserve the worst—each other—when Ash offers the chimp a place on his.
- In DP064, Paul takes advantage of the others' effort to relocate a flock of Gligar safely out of a city in order to capture the powerful Gliscor leading the flock. Paul's success causes the flock to disperse and makes the relocation effort vastly more difficult and dangerous, but once Ash confronts him about the chaos he's caused Paul shrugs it off and leaves. Paul is never held to account for the difficulties caused or lives endangered by setting the Gligar loose. For one thing, the part about "endangered lives" is just false. But also, while this moment might qualify for Lack of Empathy, there's no karma that could've actually happened here. Technically all he was doing was catching a wild Gliscor.
- In DP066, Paul needlessly insults rookie Gym Leader Maylene with such contempt that it puts her in a Heroic BSoD. He never apologizes or faces comeuppance for this decision to Kick the Dog. This is another nitpick. Yes, this was very rude, but if that somehow makes him a Karma Houdini then every jerk rival is one too.
- In the same episode, Paul's older brother Reggie acknowledges that Paul has always had a cruel streak, but Reggie—the closest thing to a parental authority figure in Paul's life—gives no indication of having ever tried to confront or punish Paul for his historic behavior. This doesn't even have anything to do with karma to begin with.
- In DP081, Paul taunts Ash's team by insisting that pokémon only lose because of the trainer—as if Paul didn't blame Azumarill's weakness for its loss at Roark's gym or tell Chimchar it should be ashamed for being knocked out by Cynthia's Garchomp. No one calls him out for being a Hypocrite. See above. This has nothing to do with karma.
- When Ash praises Staravia during the Tag Team Tournament after Paul's Torterra defeats Brock and Holly, Paul sarcastically asks Ash if they even did anything. While rude to say, it's not inaccurate as Torterra single handedly defeated both of their opponents. Downplayed though, given that it was Torterra's attacks blocking Staravia that prevented it from even landing a hit.
was deleted
in favor of this Never My Fault entry:
- In a late battle of the Tag Team Tournament, Paul's Torterra single-handedly defeats Brock's and Holly's pokemon, and Paul dismisses his "partner" Ash's attempts to congratulate Staravia on the grounds that Staravia contributed nothing—Staravia was certainly trying, but it was also busy trying to maneuver around Torterra's wild and reckless attacks (it even got singed by Hyper Beam), a fact Paul does not see fit to acknowledge.
I actually do think this scene could qualify for both tropes (though less for the reasons stated and more because Paul proceeded to criticize Staravia for being too slow). But there's no reason to have deleted the Jerkass Has a Point one, since Paul did have a point. Staravia contributed nothing to the battle while Torterra won all on its own. The deleted bullet even pointed out the ways in which it was downplayed.
openSonic's Dr. Eggman— a misuse of "Affably Evil" Videogame
(Very thorough post below, apologies for length)
Dear Ask the Tropers,
I want to discuss how Sonic the Hedgehog Big Bad Dr. Eggman might be better off as an example of Faux Affably Evil as opposed to Affably Evil, the latter of which is what most descriptions of him I've seen on this site describe him as (including some trope subpage-only cases, hence why I've come over to Ask the Tropers). Spoilers unmarked for ease of reading.
Here are the main entries regarding him:
- Dr. Eggman from Sonic The Hedgehog has his moments of this.
- In Sonic Adventure 2 he acted very pleasant and, though he came close to killing Sonic, he was shown almost regretting it, showing profound respect for him after all the years that they were rivals. He had also been seen getting along with Tails at the end of the game. It also showed that he had the deepest respect for his grandfather, Gerald Robotnik.
- The best example was probably Sonic the Hedgehog (2006), where he's shown acting politely and gently most of the time, especially in front of Elise (except for the whole kidnapping part, of course).
- In the ending of Sonic Generations: The classic version, having learned that he never defeats Sonic, ponders upon pursuing a career as a teacher instead.
- Affably Evil: Despite really wanting to Take Over the World — and occasionally going to some extreme lengths to achieve this goal — Eggman's a fairly pleasant fellow who usually treats his enemies with Villain Respect.
- In Sonic Adventure 2, he lowers his head in melancholy after seemingly killing Sonic, and later gets along with the heroes after teaming up with them.
- In Sonic Colors, he takes Sonic's advice regarding threatening him directly rather than going through a bunch of terrible amusement-park-related puns on the way — for which Sonic then thanks him.
- In Sonic Lost World, he saves Tails' life from the rogue Cubot, even though it isn't necessary for his master plan, and seems to genuinely respect Tails. He's a complicated guy.
Here's my counterargument.
He loves being what he thinks is the most civilized and enlightened guy in the room, plain and simple, and the trope subpages of quite a few different adaptations have already described their Robotniks/Eggmen as "Faux", despite how two of them (AoStH and the movie) were heavily comedy-focused.
Now, I'm sure there might be a couple cases out there of game-universe!Eggman being genuinely affable (maybe just during Olympic season or something, the Twitter Takeovers are more of a different kind of portrayal altogether), but these are too few and far between to be a defining trait.
Let's look at the alleged examples being most frequently cited:
- Sonic Adventure 2:
- The Misaimed Fandom entry I put on the game's YMMV page explains the "Gerald" bit in detail. Long story short, he looked up to his grandpa as a brilliant scientist rather than because of anything benevolent, and he's disappointed that Gerald went crazy trying to destroy the world since he takes pride in his own Pragmatic Villainy.
- The "admirable adversary" scene has him send Sonic to his death via explosive escape pod and then lowering his head out of respect… before immediately getting over it and pointing his gun back at Tails. His Dark Story recap also has him gleefully proclaim, "I finally did it! I've defeated Sonic! That annoying hedgehog is gone forever! He's nothing but floating chunks in space now!"
- He did get along with the heroes during the Last Story, but, y'know, no world means no empire so necessity and all that.
- The somber "you're right" response he gives to Tails' "we all did it together" was meant to fit with the equally somber tone of Shadow's death and Gerald's tainted legacy. As sincere as it sounds, it's just Eggman acknowledging the facts after being briefly lost in a moment of thought.
- Here's a Dummied Out exchange that was meant to happen after that, anyways:
Tails: "Where are you going?"
- Sonic the Hedgehog (2006): He's only gentlemanly to Elise because she has something he wants and he still tries to get rid of Sonic and friends in multiple ways. And he doesn't even give Elise a nice room or a meal.
- Sonic Unleashed: He keeps Professor Pickle fed with cucumber sandwiches on request. Yeah, a corpse is less useful than someone to interrogate, food makes a good bribe in case you don't have a lot of other time and options, and he got the recipe wrong anyways.
- Sonic Colors: The "Eggman changes his evil speech at Sonic's request" scene was most likely meant to be played for laughs given how the doctor does it begrudgingly. There's also this line he gives afterwards to Sonic: "I would say it's been nice knowing you, but it hasn't." Not even this game has a genuinely nice Eggman.
- Sonic Generations: The whole "teaching degree" joke was probably meant to be sarcasm from Classic Eggman, with Modern Eggman missing the point and only considering it because "I've always enjoyed telling people what to do!", causing his Classic self to Face Palm. Also Lost World and Mania happened because each Eggman went back to world conquest, so no.
- Sonic Lost World:
- It's stated in a Magnificent Bastard entry and supported by the game's ending that he only saved Tails to make sure his Enemy Mine with Sonic stayed on schedule. At best, I guess you can argue that he'd want to beat Sonic and Tails personally.
- A scene earlier into the game (the one where Sonic sets the Zeti loose) has him tell the Deadly Six that he's a "compassionate" man… with the rest of what he says being covered up by Sonic and Tails talking over him. Listening closely, this is what he says to the Zeti:
Eggman: "I'm a compassionate man, or else I would've dropped you into a bottomless pit by now!"
- The game in general seems to subtly emphasize how is Eggman a Jerk with a Heart of Jerk— he's back to stuffing animals in robots, he only sees the Zeti as useful lackeys for him, he doesn't care that the Cacophonic Conch's noises are "very painful" to the Zeti and only that the shell itself is "very rare", and he only saves Sonic's life so the hedgehog can get rid of the Zeti for him while he sneaks back to his Extractor device. And to top it all off, this line just oozes with Faux Affably Evil:
Eggman: "Finally, with the energy drained from the Extractor, I can rule the world! Pity about the damage done down there, but there's still enough left for me to conquer."
And considering how he's a very Opportunistic Bastard willing to pervert anything to get what he wants (e.g. Little Planet, Angel Island, an ancient pyramid, a planet, five planets, time and space, a guy's very reason to live, etc.), I think it's safe to say he'd even exploit a Draco in Leather Pants situation like this one if he existed in the real world.
Hence, why I think we should change this. My proposed plan here is to edit the main pages that matter and then edit those linked to it in some way. I'll deal with the latter once I've gotten the go-ahead for the former.
Thank you all for listening.
Many regards, Blurry
openSearching Discarded Tropes on the TLP?
Is there a way to search through discarded tropes on the TLP? I’m looking for a trope I remember seeing on the TLP, but searching it on both the main site and the TLP page itself brought up nothing. Is there a way to search the discarded tropes, or is it more along the lines of “these things were discarded for a reason”?
openEdit War on VideoGame.EldenRing
I brought this up on the unreleased works thread
, but haven't gotten a response. Crossposting here to get more eyeballs on the matter. The issue is this entry on VideoGame.Elden Ring:
- Lighter and Softer: Downplayed, but compared to the other games directed by Miyazaki, the area seen in the network test is positiviely Ghibli-esque,. Whereas the settings of Lordran, Lothric and Yharnam were rotten and dying, the Lands Between are positively brimming with life and light, even if it's only one area. It's still dotted with the ruins of old kingdoms and civilization is clearly on its last legs, but the world itself is doing just fine.
Lighter and Softer is a trope about the overall tone of an entire work, and therefore it seems to me that one would need the entire work to know whether it applies, which we don't have, as the game hasn't been released yet. I deleted it, and troper ~Sana Naryon restored it with the edit reason, "We get to see a portion of the map in the network test, which is far lighter and softer than any area in any other soulsborn game."
So, we've got a couple of potential issues. First, there's no citation in the example text telling where this comes from. Second, I'm skeptical that it's a trope that can be included at all based on preview footage; it's inherently speculative. And third, since Sana Naryon was the person who added it in the first place, restoring it without discussion is an Edit War.
Edited by MaiBaloneyopen Cities taking advantage of fictional portrayal
Do we have a trope for the phenomenon where real life cities (or parts thereof, like a street) embrace the fact that a popular work of fiction is either set in that city, or in a fictional city that just happens to have the same name? Like how Metropolis, Illinois declared itself Supermans hometown due to sharing it's name with the fictional city that the man of steel lives in. Or how the German city of Bremen fully embraced the fairy tale of the Bremen Town Musicians.
If not, is this trope worthy?
open Odd deletions and edit reasons. Live Action TV
So the troper Pikachu 4 Prezident
Has made some deletions with some concerning edit reasons.
- Here.
They deleted a Values Resonance entry I think (I don't know where it was) with an edit reason that states this And as a final point, the whole "men in miniskirts" thing was stupid-looming back then and it still very much looks dumb now. I don't get why everyone feels the need to inject current year politics into their edits...
Theirs also this one.
- where tbf
the entry itself might be kinda a stretch. But his actual edit reason is strange.
There seems to be an agenda here....
Edited by miraculousopenVideo Examples
How do you edit video examples again? Asking since I recently finished the work page for the source of one of the video examples on Self-Destruct Mechanism and want to edit it so that it links back to that.
openTabletop Games and/or Magazines?
A question that is starting to bug me: in the "Tabletop Games" folder of tropes, I frequently see (and probably added a few myself) examples related to a roleplaying game, but actually coming from a magazine devoted to it (most often, Dragon for Dungeons & Dragons).
However, should such examples be placed instead in the "Magazines" folder? And when crosswicking, should they go on the Magazine's work page, or the game's?
open Sevens: Jackpot21 deletes all dissenting Opinions: Anti-Climax Boss edition Anime
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Tropers/Jackpot21
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/YMMV/YuGiOhSevens
User Jackpot 21 has this thing where they really dislike any opinion on Sevens they disagree with, even if it is a YMMV trope and thus is about opinions versus facts. Recently they went after my YMMV opinion on one of the final bosses of a Sevens Arc.
Here be what they removed.
...
- Anti-Climax Boss: Yuga's second duel with Asana, and the climax of her arc, is considered the weakest duel of all the arc climax duels in the series. Reasons for this stem for the aborted clash of the Maximum Monsters (which makes sense in the plot but comes as the expense of the duel), a sense of repetition of plays from the previous arc climax duel with Neiru (Yuga making a similar 'Trick Guard-Stray Familiar move', the second and third turns leading to a mutual Maximum clash, the use of Magical Switch to summon Seven Roads Magician to take an attack for a weaker monster, etc), and the duel's format overall being more akin to a regular Yuga duel than a climactic one (Yuga notably wins not using Seven Roads Magician, a combo with Seven Roads Magician, or his Maximum monster, but a new level 7 monster (Steeltek Diety Mirror Innovator) in a manner that is more akin to how a duel with a minor character would go and not a climactic clash with a final opponent whose duels tend to more closely involve Yuga's signature cards. Asana herself remains a popular character, but her final duel is considered weak by many.
...
Now let's break down why this is wrong. To list a few of them off the top of my head.
1: Anti-Climax Boss is a trope that is usable outside of video games. In fact all Yu Gi Oh Series have used this trope in their YMMV (For both cards and opponents). 2: This was an opinion I did see around and more than just myself. 3: Anti-Climax boss entries list out why the boss was seen that way, and I did list out several reasons including repetition and how it was concluded.
Also of course 'Your Mileage May Vary'
Minor tweaks are perfectly fine: perhaps changing words from 'is considered the weakest duel of all the arc climax duels' to 'many consider it the weakest duel in all the arc climax duels'. But if he isn't going to even give a reason for his removal like the Pokemon Journeys entry in this system at the same time...well either there is something wrong with it that I don't know about or it is good to go back in a manner that can avoid an edit war.
Edited by KrspaceTopenProblematic entry Film
The YMMV page for the Black Panther film has the following entry under Alternate Character Interpretation:
- Is Killmonger a Death Seeker? Besides refusing medical help after his defeat, he always chooses the self-destructive path. He kills his girlfriend and burns the sacred garden, implying that he isn't interested in having an heir or leaving a legacy for himself even though he's a prince with a legitimate claim to the throne. Furthermore, despite having the skills and connections, Killmonger also chose not to follow a more heroic career like becoming a costumed vigilante, entering politics or starting his own company, thus denying himself the chance to help others and live a life of luxury without the needless deaths. The fact that Killmonger pursues self-defeating atrocities implies that he doesn't care about what happens to himself so long as everyone experiences his suffering. This only makes his evil plan more horrifying in hindsight, since it amounts to a murder-suicide as he intentionally wants millions of innocent lives to die alongside him.
The idea that Killmonger is a Death Seeker may be a valid interpretation, but the entry doesn't make its case very well. Most of what it says simply applies to villains in general not using their skills in a better way, and while Killmonger may be willing to die if necessary, he doesn't seem to see his cause as self-destructive. The specific examples the entry cites don't support this either (burning the garden does not affect his ability to have children, and killing his girlfriend was done in order to kill Klaue, which his entire plan depended on). The last sentence seems especially problematic, as it states this interpretation as though it were fact.
Edited by Javertshark13openExtremely small "Referenced By" page Videogame
So I recently discovered this 'Referenced By' subpage for the Halo franchise that appears on every single game's subpage bar as a redirect. It was created in February of this year by darkemyst and has only been edited three times since, with the last edit being in May of this year.
It also only has six examples and not all of them even seem to be valid, which has me thinking it should be cut. To list all the examples and my thoughts on them:
- Aldnoah.Zero: The Hypergate looks very similar to the African portal that leads to the Ark from Halo 3.
- This entry provides two image links on the page itself, one of which is broken and just redirects to the main page of Bungie's website (and they don't even own the Halo franchise anymore). I found a working image and frankly the similarities seem fairly superficial, though I suppose the argument could be made that it's a reference: Hypergate (Aldnoah)
◊, Gate at Voi (Halo)
◊
- This entry provides two image links on the page itself, one of which is broken and just redirects to the main page of Bungie's website (and they don't even own the Halo franchise anymore). I found a working image and frankly the similarities seem fairly superficial, though I suppose the argument could be made that it's a reference: Hypergate (Aldnoah)
- Guardians of the Galaxy: Peter's laser pistols bear more than a passing resemblance to the Covenant Plasma Rifle from Halo: Combat Evolved, or also the laser pistols from The Black Hole (1979).
- The Expanse: While at first glance the Ring's design is reminiscent of a lifeless Halo, Manéo Jung-Espinoza's attempt at flying through it reveals that it actually operates more like the Supergates built by the Ori.
- Both of these entries openly admit that the similarities are vague and limited enough that it could be a reference to something else entirely, which makes them invalid IMO.
- Marathon: The Eternal Level name "These Caves Can't Be a Natural Formation" is a line from Halo: Combat Evolved
- The Marathon series pre-dates the Halo franchise which made me seriously scratch my head at this. I had to dig through our page on the former to find out that this is apparently a reference to a fan-made total conversion mod called Marathon: Eternal that was released after Halo. Not sure if that's valid.
- Quake: The Blaster in Quake IV can fire either single, extremely weak shots or more powerful charged shots in a manner similar to the Plasma Pistol.
- This is an extremely basic and generic gameplay mechanic that many, many shooters have adopted for many, many weapons throughout gaming history. Edit history shows that it was also in the above category of "the entry outright admits it could be referencing something else" until the last edit on May 10th 2021 - specifically, pointing out that it's equally similar to the "Dispersion Pistol" from Unreal I.
- Minilife TV: In "Spirit in the Sky", Master Chief's helmet is one of the items in Chris's swag pile.
- This is possibly the only inarguably valid entry on the page and it's for a LEGO stop-motion web series sitcom I've never heard of.
resolved self-promotion in tlp comments
so there's a tlp draft
being proposed. (full disclosure: I have my own issues with the proposal that are unrelated to my question and have made that explicit in the comments for the draft.) My question is: does the site allow self-promotion outside of explicit forum threads? the sponsor wrote in the comments that they have a youtube channel that discusses the trope they are proposing and then linked it in the comment. is that allowed? disallowed? allowed but frowned upon? Felt weird about it tbh, so i'm asking here.
openFan Works and Recursive Fanfiction getting mixed with source material
I've been told that Fan Works aren't to be discussed on pages for source material, and fan works aren't exempt from this, not allowing Recursive Fanfiction to be discussed on the source fan work's page. What I'm worried about, however, is works with communities where Fan Works - and even Recursive Fanfiction - are closely associated with each other to the point of crossovers between Fan Works being common, and the content of fan works (recursive or not) even impacting the perception of the source material.
To give a specific example, Friday Night Funkin': Corruption is a Game Mod of Friday Night Funkin' well-known for recursive Game Mods that involve characters from other existing Game Mods (whether they be characters invented for a mod, or characters from pre-existing works as portrayed in a specific mod) dealing with the main conflict of Corruption. While some stuff I think I know how to handle from past experience (such as removing the Drinking Game subpage's section on recursive Corruption mods), one thing I don't fully know how to handle is certain examples and bullets on the YMMV subpage that allude to recursive mods and the base Corruption mod (such as a "Seinfeld" Is Unfunny example which describes the reception of recursive Corruption mods affecting the reputation of Corruption itself).
While I am wondering about the mixing of source material, Fan Works, and Recursive Fanfiction in a broader sense, I'm especially curious how to handle scenarios where reception towards a work is especially affected by fan works (including when such happens between a fan work and recursive fan works).
Edited by BrashBusteropen YMMV Pokemon Journeys/2019 Anime issue: Jackpot21 versus Franchise Original Sin Anime
...Yes, I know, but this is a trope I really stand for, stand on, and I want to fix it without starting an edit war.
Okay, so here's what Jackpot
removed.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/YMMV/PokemonJourneysTheSeries
...
- Franchise Original Sin:
- Ash has had a co-lead before, most famously in the form of Dawn. At several points Dawn would take the lead as the focus character even in the midst of what might be considered an Ash focused storyline, such as during the Maylene episodes where she took a lead in roughly half of the four episodes. Fans have more problems with Goh doing this than Dawn due to it being perceived as more often and more intrusive to Ash's focus.
- It has been in Ash's nature at several points to have the course of the journey dictated by those around him more than his own, notably with May and Dawn's Contests and Serena's Showcases. However this is perhaps the first series where such a occurrence has been widely criticized and disliked by a sizeable and vocal portion of the fanbase, with Goh's goals tending to dominate a large chunk of episode over Ash's being a frequent issue with such fans. Possible reasons for this being Goh's captures often occurring in episodes that would have once been considered filler thus giving the fans a feeling that Goh gets more focus than he actually is intended to, Goh's goal being relevant more frequently than the female companions and thus aggravating fans more, or just the fact that Goh's status as a designated co-lead means that any imbalance in focus is more tangible to the fanbase.
...
This is Jackpot's given reason for removing it.
...
Dawn isn’t classified as a protagonist but as a traveling companion. The difference between her and Goh is that Dawn’s focus episodes were spread out and didn’t overshadow Ash’s journey, usually involved competing in Contests, bettering herself as a Coordinator, or had to do with her Pokémon, whereas with Goh’s focus episodes, they tend to happen every few episodes and would more often than not be about a specific Pokémon that he’d catch at the end of the episode. Also, how did Ash’s companions dictate his journey? Most of the Contests or Showcases were on the way to whatever Gym he’d challenge next. That’s far different from Goh dragging him around to whatever location he found out a specific Pokémon will be at or a specific event taking place. ...
I am very familiar with the Pokemon fanbase. I am aware of how the fanbase is and what the show is like for twenty years, and what it is now. I am aware of Goh is seen, and I am able to look at it historically.
Dawn was treated as a Co-Lead. In the opening of DP anime episodes, it is the 'adventures of Satoshi (Ash) and Hikari (Dawn). May, Iris, Serena, Misty, etc did not get this. The only one who gets that is Goh.
As to the point about direction, at several points in the series the company diverts their path to go to places that are contest or showcase based (For example, in Kalos Ash does this for some of Serena's later performances)
Also, and I suspect this is the most important, this is YMMMV. Your Mileage May Vary. I don't think the edit removal given really works as that argument is more for 'yes or no' tropes versus opinion tropes. Jackpot removed it more on 'I don't agree with it' lines, which strikes me as problematic for YMMV tropes, especially as Goh's issues brought up are a commonly held opinion on many sites like Bulbargarden and Spacebattles and the point of 'being something in the originals' is used in debate there and acknowledged as such.
Please help me return the trope to YMMV Journeys. I added it originally so I cannot without risking an edit war (while I added it back in August 21 so I have no idea if that makes a reversing edit two and a half months is the edit, remove, edit definitions or not.)
Edited by KrspaceT

Fireblood has created dozens upon dozens of redundant Image Links pages. They always consist of an image (not a link to the image, but the image itself) that is identical to the one on the work's main page, and nothing else. This
is the latest one I found, and despite me having cutlisted all of these redundant IL pages over the course of several months, I'm still finding them.