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Ask the Tropers:
openIf I wanted to redesign/update Trope-tan, would that be possible?
Trope-tan is a cute concept, but her design has always struck me as busy/outdated/not befitting the Moe Anthropomorphism look. I've drawn the current design
◊ before, and obviously I don't expect to be able to just barge in and do whatever I want—if this is a possibility I'd expect it to be community-approved—but I wanted to get a sense of if it's even feasible before I get ahead of myself.
open In this wiki, is Shout-Out the same as intertextuality?
Intertextuality is the intentional use of elements of other previous texts, which is what the Shout-Outs Index presents itself as. However, Shout-Out is normally conceived as a superficial reference to a work (one of its redirects is Allusion, for example, what is normally considered a different type of intertextuality from, let's say, Parodies, translations, Pastiches etc.). Is there space for a Definition-Only Page about intertext and its academic divisions? Or could the Shout-Outs Index be renamed (only the index, Shout-Out could stay as it is, even more so considering its popularity), get a redirect after Intertextual Tropes or something similar?
Edited by good-morningopen Complaining in Stardew Valley YMMV?
Two entries on YMMV.Stardew Valley (Anvilicious and Designated Villain) seem to be subtle complaints about the game's handling of the game's Pierre vs. Joja sidestory, since we don't see much of JojaMart and Morris. I'm wondering how to handle them?
- The game's Green Aesop is just as prevalent. Several characters will drop everything, apropos of nothing, to lecture the Farmer on how they need to be environmentally-conscious and aware of their impact on the environment. Vaguely-defined "environmental pollution" is considered to be one of Joja Corporation's many dastardly deeds, but this is never shown in-game, other than litter strewn around sewage outlets, most of which probably came from the town's inhabitants. Furthermore, none of the characters who talk about the environment are ever seen doing much to improve things, not even picking up the aforementioned-trash.
- Joja Corporation, and Morris specifically. We are assured that they are very evil and mean and probably kick puppies and kitty cats around at every opportunity, as well as typical Green Aesop-pushing, nebulously-defined environmental pollution. However, they never do anything particularly malicious on-screen. The biggest Kick the Dog moment any Joja member gets is Morris's incredibly condescending letter to Pierre and the comically-low wages they pay their Joja Mart employees. However, many fans will argue that Pierre doesn't exactly come out of a contest-of-character smelling like a rose. Morris himself is never anything but (possibly a little bit too) polite to the Farmer, and if you do get a JojaMart membership you can still revitalize the town and valley through cold hard cash.
Just for clarity, I don't exactly think Joja count as Designated Villains when their Predatory Business tactics are why the player leaves their job with them and kicks off the game's plot. The opening shows some of their employees dead or stoned, they block off some of the mountains in the early game for a legally dubious mining operation, and paying them to revitalize the town is done solely to boost their public image (since it requires sacrificing the community center to do so).
As for the Green Aesop, it's... not as heavy as the entry implies it to be. Recycling and solar panels are seen, and there's a quest for Linus you can do that involves fishing up trash. Outside of that, its rarely brought up by the villagers, and cleaning the game's environment is entirely optional for the player.
openMedieval II: Total War Videogame
So, I have checked the Characters page for Medieval II: Total War, and much of the descriptions are copied from the game itself. Feels like plagiarism, though it needs thorough investigation.
openCan't find my work page in the search engine Literature
Hi! I just posted a new work page (see link below). Yet when I type "That Irresistible Poison" into the search engine, I see a lot of pages unrelated to the book. The search engine does show the history page of my edits at the top of the results, though. Typing "That Irresistible Poison Alessandra Hazard" leads to just the history page of my edits, but not the work page itself. Does anyone know why? I already have the Page Type set to Work, and have Indexed it under Queer Romance, Queer Media, and Literature of the 2010s.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/ThatIrresistiblePoison
Thanks so much!
openHarry Ellis Whitewashing/Edit War Avoidance Film
On Characters.Die Hard, mattc0tter re-added some whitewashing/ACI of Harry Ellis
that I previously deleted on account of the movie never showing Ellis to be anything other than a selfish prick. I do not want to get in an edit war over this, but I want to make very clear that having seen the film, Ellis' benevolent intentions are ACI at best.
openIdiot Plot misuse? (Just one moment?)
- Idiot Plot: The crux of the crossover itself hinges on the fact that Peter and Strange never bothered to properly communicate the details of the spell cast on Peter's memory. It's only thanks to an extremely convenient instance of Exact Words that the MCU Spider-Man isn't rendered helpless and alone immediately after it's cast. You'd expect either Peter or Strange to have considered the implications more than not at all before such a monumental thing was done.
Idiot Plot requires more than one character having more than one moment of separate idiocy. It might hit this criteria with Peter not thinking the ramifications through and Strange not explaining the spell sooner, but it's still one scene and technically the same one moment and idiocy of them not thinking it through.
Thoughts? Should Idiot Plot have a cleanup thread? (I recall examples being brought here a few times and questions over it's fundamentals.)
openPreventing an edit war on MythologyGag.NickelodeonAllStarBrawl Videogame
I've edited MythologyGag.Nickelodeon All Star Brawl on various occasions in the past few months to add examples, some of which include external links to help back them up. (Here
are
some instances of this.) On the 12th of this month, Pgj1997 removed several of these links
, explaining in an edit reason after the fact
that Weblinks Are Not Examples.
While I understand the policy, I made an effort to write all of my examples such that the connection between something in the game and the original series it's based on was evident from the text alone, which means that their edits seem like they're overreaching. Put another way, I tried to abide by what the page itself says:
- It is always preferable to use outside links as additional tools to clarify, enhance, or provide reference to a detailed example's content, rather than using them in place of the detailed example itself. In short, weblinks are to supplement context, but never substitute for context.
I don't want to risk edit warring, so I wanted to bring up the matter here to get others' opinions on this before taking any action.
openProblematic troper
sumitkumars has only been here for two days, but they seem to have made many questionable edits to both the Useful Notes.Bollywood and Useful Notes.India pages almost to the point where they blanked the pages.
1. removing a lot of text from the Bollywood page
.
2. Removing a big chunk of the India page
.
5. poor grammar
.
6. What the hell is this edit??
I suggest we have someone revert the edits this person made, but please take a look for yourself.
Edited by YuriHaru567openIs this kind of trope use okay?
I'm doing gradual editing and clean up on the tropes pages for Housepets!, A-L
and M-Z
which have all kinds of issues. Most of the problems are the usual bad grammar, ZCEs, indentation, natter, and bad examples, but this one is odd, and something I haven't encountered before. There's a trope for Show Within a Show that has sub-bullet points for tropes that only appear in one of the two examples, done this way:
- Show Within a Show: Pridelands, a fictional work of which Grape is fond. Also "The Adventures of Spot (Superdog)", which uses the following tropes exclusively.
- Big "NO!": Spot (Superdog) does this when things don't go his way.
- Clark Kenting: The only difference between Spot (Superdog) and his secret identity as Spot (Professor) is a cape and a pair of glasses. Even the name's the same!
- Get a Hold of Yourself, Man!: Attempted by Stripe.
- Intercontinuity Crossover: In-Universe, Peanut is fond of crossing the Pridelands books with his Super Hero, Spot (Superdog).
- Large Ham: Spot (Superdog) has his moments.
- New Powers as the Plot Demands: This comic
and Spot's last line.
- Terrible Artist: Peanut's drawings are about on par with those of a stereotypical five year old.
- When Things Spin, Science Happens: Touched on here.
- Why Don't Ya Just Shoot Him?: Played with in this comic.
Other issues aside (such as ZCEs), is this acceptable practice? The alternative is to scatter the trope examples in sub-bullets in the main tropes page and note that they only happen in the Show Within a Show in each case.
Thanks!
Edited by BoltDMCopenIndex Correction? Web Original
Several of the subpages for The Magnus Archives (at the very least the characters, heartwarming, funny, and nightmare fuel pages) are indexed under Web Original, while the work itself is a podcast. Do I have to achieve any sort of consensus before re-indexing them, and if so is this a good place to do it?
Edit: I fixed it but I have a follow-up question: while I was moving what pages needed to/could be moved, I discovered that Fanfic Recommendations does not have a Podcast folder but does have an Other folder that includes several podcasts. Can I go ahead and make a Podcast folder, or do I need an okay for that?
Edited by AfterwordopenSpider-Man: No Way it's being brought up again.
A while ago I removed Rescued from the Scrappy Heap entries about all three Spider-Men from Spider-Man: No Way Home after discussing it on Is this an Example
thread, because it was agreed that it was too early to call it that. Then it was re-added again along with another entry and deleted again here
. Which also had it re-added while the query was going on and deleted by the same query. At the same time, I also removed one for all three Spider-Men here
including Andrew Garfield fallowing discussion here
. Well yesterday Enigmatic_Mastermind added these entries here
:
- Rescued from the Scrappy Heap:
- Those who initially weren't impressed with Andrew Garfield as the web-head in The Amazing Spider Man films tend to appreciate his performance more in this film, probably due to the script being more fitting for him as well as the character being comically self-aware that he was the least popular Spider-Man as well as having several highlights in the film. Like the scene where saves MJ in the same way he tried to save Gwen.
- Jamie Foxx's Electro from the same films as well. Even before the movie hit the theaters there were people who were glad that he was given a second shot at playing the supervillain and he felt more serious and formidable here despite his limited screentime, in contrast to the more cliché tragic loner-turned-villain in his original movies while still keeping that aspect of his character in the end without losing the threat.
What should be done cut or keep? You know this page has been the subject of a lot of ATTs.
Edited by BullmanopenHow do I delete video that I uploaded?
There’s a video on Condemned by History that I uploaded a while back when it used to be called Deader Than Disco. It doesn’t match the trope anymore so I’m hoping I can remove it myself?
openSelf-promotion?
I suspect Phill Higgins may be using this Wiki to (rather shamelessly) promote himself. His only activity so far was to create this TLP stub
and an Analysis page for an artist called Saulo Oliveira S.
Said analysis has many, many typos and grammar mistakes, on top of repeatedly describing the singer as "the Prince of Rock", someone "covered in revolutionary ideas for incendiary lyrics", "complex and mesmerizing", and countless other self-indulgent statements.
This can't be kosher, right?
Edit: Found a few more things about this singer:
- He used to have a Wikipedia article, but it was deleted not long ago. It was also written in a needlessly self-absorbed way.
- While I did find one of his songs on YouTube, it only has 4 views... So any claims that it is popular or acclaimed are null.
openAll's Fair at the Fair (1938) Western Animation
I want to create a page on this site for "All's Fair at the Fair" (1998); one of my favorite Max Fleischer cartoons and one that I think deserves a bit more love. Unfortunately, I'm not that great at recognizing most pop culture tropes and I don't have a lot of free time to actually make it myself, so I was hoping that I could get some help from some of you more seasoned Tropers. I'd love to learn about all the tropes that make up this classic short and hear your own take on them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAFqAbrPKxQ&t=1s
openTroper causing a bit of trouble
Troper Lea17 is causing a bit of trouble.
- They created the page Ghoul Detective Series, and have put a lot of zero-context examples on it.
- Most of the examples are written in the past tense despite taking place in the story's present, as far as I can tell.
- They created a Ghoul Detective Series funny moments page despite being told, in an earlier ATT, that this isn't allowed, what with them being the story's writer. (I cutlisted it already.)
- There's some bad grammar. This sentence is an example: "It tells a story where Ken Kaneki, a young half-ghoul who was adopted by Morofushi brothers."
- There was this huge section they added about the trope Tarot Motifs, but the actual trope isn't used in the story itself as far as I can determine. Only in the guide to the story. (To be fair, that guide is a published work too, so it's fine if you disagree with me and add it back.)
- The quotes are super long. I deleted a massive one.
- There's a lot of Word Cruft, with phrasings like "[name] is this."
- Examples often use the phrasing "[name] is this too," even though examples shouldn't refer to other examples.
- The indentation is often done poorly.
openEdit war on Kingdom Come Deliverance YMMV page Videogame
On December 22nd, Troper The Living Drawing removed these tropes
from Kingdom Come Deliverance's YMMV page with the edit reason of "Removed several examples that, while potentially valid, are very complainy. Have not played the game and have little knowledge on it so if you have, please feel free to rewrite the removed examples to me more neutral.":
- Archery is probably the fakest of all "difficult" things in the game. There is no aiming dot visible, but that doesn't mean there isn't one. In fact, the game simply turns off the aiming dot when bows are drawn with a crudely written script. There is absolutely nothing preventing players from simply marking or memorizing the dot on display and then have perfect aim, regardless of skill, bow type or distance. The absurd sway of bows for first five levels of the skill only adds to how fake it really is, because if the aiming dot is marked (or displayed with a console command), the aim remains perfect despite displaying sway all over the screen.
- The game never really informs how to train, so if natural progress is applied with the plot progression, Henry is going to be constantly and heavily under skilled. However, spending just 30 minutes with Captain Bernhard and whacking him with random Button Mashing is enough to train Henry into formidable fighter, raising half of his stats and generally turning the whole game into a cakewalk with most of enemies unable to even hit back.
- Each and every camp full of bandits can be cleared with ease during night-time, by carefully picking them one by one. Not only does it allow the player to skip otherwise tough (or outright impossible) encounters, it's considerably easier to do than just trying to face few brigands on your own in a sword fight. Of course the game never informs about how stealth or stealth kills work, so unless player figures it out by applying common sense, good luck with all those encounters when trying to face bandits in straight-out combat.
- The entire barter system relies on Henry's relationship with the vendor: he has to lower his bids for a long time to gain enough favour to get better prices (and better bids) in the future. Cue miller Peshek, who via finishing his quest line gains 100% favour. And since he's miller, he buys stolen goods. His merchant list is also scripted to pay premium for a lot of things regardless of favour. And if one particular vendor is constantly fed new items, their cash reserve increases during restocking. Eventually Peshek can easily carry 50 thousand groschen, buying whatever and offering decent prices at that. Just don't expect the game explaining any of this at any point.
- Fake Longevity: The game has few very blatant cases of intentionally making certain trival tasks take extra time. It is so widespread, numerous reviewers pointed this as an outright trick to claim "100 hours of gameplay", despite 20 or so is going to be filled with tedium.
- All the copious, lengthy and unskippable animations. They add absolutely nothing to the game, aside few extra seconds every time certain action is taken. Haggle and horse (dis)mounting is probably most guilty of this and also some of the most repeated actions.
- Fast travel on map can only be done over pre-planned paths and only toward handful of pre-made points of interest. In practice, this leads to Henry taking in-game hours to circle back and forth over particularly twisted path over a hillside or taking a detour over half of the map. And it doesn't matter if he's on foot or riding - the speed of fast travel is exactly the same, so once a mount is acquired, it's considerably faster to just ride manually rather than use the "fast" travel option.
- Additionally with horses, they move much slower on roads than off them. Most of the time, it's better to ride close to the road to keep track of where you're going, but not so close that the horse automatically attempts to get on it.
- Henry can't swim. Period. He can't ford rivers even when on horseback. Said rivers aren't deep and lack rapids of any sorts. Still, it takes to find what the game considers as a ford (where the water tends to be ankle-deep) or a bridge, which means a lot of back-and-forth travel toward nearest pass over river.
- Misaimed "Realism": The game was heavily marketed under "super-realism" flag, but this backfires badly at certain game mechanics, especially since how uneven the application of said "realism" is, breaking the immersion entirely rather than enhancing it.
- Probably the most glaring is just about anything related with inventory management. You can carry around few tonnes of equipment and the only downside will be being forced into the walking pace of movement. Get yourself on horseback and even that no longer applies. Oh, and saddle bags on your horse come with a teleport, since you can move in and out items regardless of where the horse is, unless ongoing quest intentionally disables that option (which only ever happens twice).
- Said saddle bags have a limited load they can carry, but there is nothing preventing Henry from overloading himself and then simply get on horseback.
- The weapons seem to be made out of foil and raw copper, that's how quickly they wear out. They also never really break down, just reach the state of "disrepair", meaning a simple debuff to damage. And you would grind any given blade into nothingness when using grindstone so often as Henry does.
- Probably the most glaring is just about anything related with inventory management. You can carry around few tonnes of equipment and the only downside will be being forced into the walking pace of movement. Get yourself on horseback and even that no longer applies. Oh, and saddle bags on your horse come with a teleport, since you can move in and out items regardless of where the horse is, unless ongoing quest intentionally disables that option (which only ever happens twice).
- That One Level: Needle in A Haystack. Working with the Neuhof bandits, Henry is tasked with infiltrating a monastery in order to track a straggler down, kill him and bring proof to the bandits that the target is dead. What follows is allegedly the most annoying quest in the whole game according to fans. First of all, it's a No-Gear Level, so you can't bring your weapons inside to kill the target. Second, since you're a novice, you're at the bottom of the monk hierarchy, meaning that you live under the authority of the hated Circators, monks who are supposed to keep order in the monastery and punish monks who break the rules. However, since you are being tasked with killing someone in the monastery, you WILL have to break many rules with your time in there, specially if you choose to do the sidequests that the monastery offer, which involves ludicrous amounts of lockpicking and pickpocketing, sneaking in and out of the monastery constantly, missing out on your schedule (and getting punished for that), getting lost and much more. Oh, and did we mention that all of this is done without a single Savior Schnapps in your inventory?
- Thankfully, the quest can be skipped, but it'll give you its "bad ending". There is an ornamental dagger hidden under a paving stone on the balcony next to the dormitory. If you don't mind a bit of collateral damage you can murder all the novices in their sleep, grab the spare set of keys from the pantry and escape within five minutes of the first night without needing any preplanning - apart from needing the Stealth Kill perk. Yes, it skips the whole quest and yes, it gives you a bad ending for it, but admit it, it's smart and it's understandable to do it.
- However, should Henry be a competent thief-type, the entire quest goes from That One Level to the best part of the entire game, as the main obstacle - lack of gear - is meaningless when all doors can be opened and circators avoided with stealth. It still requires overcoming various challenges, but in engaging and simply fun way.
No less than 30 minutes later, troper Stanisz added all of them back and commented them out
with the reason "If you expect people to correct the tone, how about leaving them content to correct, rather than just cutting it?" Around a week later, troper C Dan Red removed the commenting symbol and made the FakeDifficulty entry public with no edit reason.
Seeing Stanisz's reason, I decided to take a look at it myself and edited the entries
, with my own edit reason being "Grammar fixes, removed some entries (Miller seems more like Game-Breaker, Stealth is explained in the codex, and others are not that bad or seem to just be complaining), and tried to adjust the tone a tad to be more neutral." One of those removed entries was this, since most of it seemed to be unsalvageable complaining and one-sided:
- Fake Longevity: The game has few very blatant cases of intentionally making certain trival tasks take extra time. It is so widespread, numerous reviewers pointed this as an outright trick to claim "100 hours of gameplay", despite 20 or so is going to be filled with tedium.
- All the copious, lengthy and unskippable animations. They add absolutely nothing to the game, aside few extra seconds every time certain action is taken. Haggle and horse (dis)mounting is probably most guilty of this and also some of the most repeated actions.
- Fast travel on map can only be done over pre-planned paths and only toward handful of pre-made points of interest. In practice, this leads to Henry taking in-game hours to circle back and forth over particularly twisted path over a hillside or taking a detour over half of the map. And it doesn't matter if he's on foot or riding - the speed of fast travel is exactly the same, so once a mount is acquired, it's considerably faster to just ride manually rather than use the "fast" travel option.
- Additionally with horses, they move much slower on roads than off them. Most of the time, it's better to ride close to the road to keep track of where you're going, but not so close that the horse automatically attempts to get on it.
- Henry can't swim. Period. He can't ford rivers even when on horseback. Said rivers aren't deep and lack rapids of any sorts. Still, it takes to find what the game considers as a ford (where the water tends to be ankle-deep) or a bridge, which means a lot of back-and-forth travel toward nearest pass over river.
Hours later, Stanisz added the above entry back
with the reason of "Come on, mate..."
openDoes TV Tropes have any official social media accounts?
I was curious if TV Tropes has any other presence online like on Twitter or Facebook aside from just the website itself.

The Host has a serious issue with subpage collision (the YMMV page alone is seperated into sections for 4 different works). Normally the solution would be to move the individual media pages and make the main page a disambiguation for them... but the main page itself is already a trope.