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resolved Bloated-if-not-questionable Cowboy Bebop At His Computer example Web Original
On the Trivia page for Jimquisition, there's a Cowboy BeBop at His Computer example that was added and serial tweaked across last November, and while I already take issue with the unwieldy length of the example, I watched the episode it's referring to, and I'm not sure it's accurate. Here's what it is:
- In "Why Emulating Nintendo Games Is Good, Probably"
, Jim kept equating Piracy and Emulation as one in the same throughout the video; which it is not. Piracy would be stealing a game rom to play on an emulator, whereas emulators themselves is the means to play said game. While they can be used to play pirated games, if one is prepared enough, you can just dump the games yourself (something all emulators suggest you do specifically to avoid lawsuits and copyright infringement). Jim doesn't seem to realise that emulators can also do a lot more than just play games. You can outright make homebrew games for that system, mod the game to make it look better with texture packs and custom levels, or use cheat codes to enhance the experience. None of this was mentioned by them, despite being perfectly legal activities to do, and also a draw to emulator enthusiasts. If emulators were the driving issue, Nintendo and other game companies would've attempted to sue them all years agonote and there is a reason most emulators are open source; to prove to the companies and their users that their code is not stolen from outside sources or was made with a leaked companies' data. The premise of the video is also flawed because they claim games media doesn't talk about emulation because it's a taboo subject, and goes off on a tangent about how the media relies too much on connections to get news and review copies. While the observation is mostly true, It doesn't occur to them that a press outlet featuring emulators semi-frequently will inevitably lead to the Streisand Effect; more people pirating games to try out the emulator because they heard it in an article that would otherwise not feature it (something Jim themselves is an example of; Jim went out and bought a handheld game emulator loaded with what they imply are illegitimately obtained roms because they wanted to use an emulator to protest against Nintendo's online service that they found out via a news article via Kotaku).
Except the video doesn't treat piracy and emulation as the same thing. In fact, going off of the way that Jim words themselves, the video acknowledges and understands that piracy is a mere facet of emulation more than it is the same thing. Jim's video treats it as part of the bigger issue of how Nintendo does nothing to make their service worth the money in the face of people being able to access their older games for free illegitimately, and it seems like that's the actual premise of the video more than the topic of gaming media being coy about emulation, especially since the early portion revolves around an article that's being anything but coy about it. More to the point, the video backs this distinction up further by explicitly pointing out that the Kotaku article in question isn't encouraging piracy so much as it's reporting on something that's proven to be possible on emulation software.
From what I can conclude from rewatching the video, this example seems to revolve around a lack of distinction that not only isn't visible anywhere in the video, but wouldn't have been important to the video's point even if it was. It can't just be me noticing this, right?
At the very least, the example looks like it could do with a trim and a tiny bit of grammar cleanup, if we were to keep it.
Edited by Akriloth2160openAssistance with Character page
Because I don't want to start an edit war or anything, I figured I'd just come directly here for assistance. Troper "BoopFreak12" removed the tropes "Kids Are Cruel" and "Unreliable Narrator" from My Hero Academia - Dabi, and edited the entry for Dark and Troubled Past to place the blame solely on his (admittedly abusive) father Enji. No edit reason was listed for any of this. This in turns reads like they were trying to change anything that suggested Dabi wasn't purely a victim as a child, to the point of deleting entries that had canon basis. Should the entries be restored or not?
- Kids Are Cruel: Downplayed. At 13 years old, Toya was so obsessed with gaining validation from his father that he was rather indifferent at best, and insulting at worst, to his mother and siblings. This is best shown when he accuses his mother of being weak-willed and submissive to a man who deems him a failed creation, not caring about the pressure she routinely endured being a victim to Enji's abuse.
- Unreliable Narrator: Of his own public broadcast to discredit the heroes, and lampshaded as he shows a blood test to prove he's Endeavor's son when he notes that anything that comes from a known villain's mouth is already suspect. Toya claims that he was a Child by Rape and put under Training from Hell before being discarded and his siblings were other "failed" attempts, but Endeavor's own flashback remembering Toya's apparent death and circumstances beforehand show that Toya was eager to train and learn from Endeavor despite his handicap (and if anything, it was Endeavor who showed more concern for his well-being) plus the reveal Fuyumi was mutually conceived by himself and Rei to give Toya a sibling to be supported by as much as to try and get a child with a balance of their Quirks. He shows edited footage of Twice's death by Hawks' hands to paint the hero as a murderer rather than someone forced into a no-win scenario, and mentions that Hawks killed Best Jeanist (although Dabi genuinely did believe that Hawks killed Best Jeanist, and was just as shocked as anyone else when the No. 3 Hero showed up).
- BEFORE:
- Dark and Troubled Past: He came from a wealthy heroic family with his father being the Number Two hero, Endeavor. His father, wanting to surpass All Might at any cost, sired a son with Rei Todoroki who he planned to train as his successor and achieve his ultimate goal. However, Toya was born with a body that didn’t suit his Quirk, meaning that he would severely hurt himself if he continued to use it. Endeavor, out of concern, did everything he thought he could to dissuade Toya from becoming a hero, including having another successor. But instead, Endeavor’s efforts made Toya feel abandoned and left him with deep existential issues and long-term injuries from wanting to prove his worth to his father throughout his early childhood. Not long after, he caused a forest fire while training his Quirk in the mountains which may have resulted in nearly all of his body becoming disfigured with horrific burn scars while the majority of his family believed him to be dead. It is safe to say Toya didn't have an easy life.
- AFTER:
- Dark and Troubled Past: He came from a wealthy heroic family with his father being the Number Two hero, Endeavor. His father, wanting to surpass All Might at any cost, sired a son with Rei Todoroki who he planned to train as his successor and achieve his ultimate goal. However, Toya was born with a body that didn’t suit his Quirk, meaning that he would severely hurt himself if he continued to use it. Endeavor
, out of concern, did everything he thought he couldtried to dissuade Toya from becoming a hero,includingby having another successor. successor as well as running away from his responsibilties as a parent. But instead, instead of these efforts helping, Endeavor’seffortsdecisions made Toya feel abandoned and left him with deep existential issues and long-term injuries from wanting to prove his worth to his father throughout his early childhood. Not long after, he caused a forest fire while training his Quirk in the mountains which may have resulted in nearly all of his body becoming disfigured with horrific burn scars while the majority of his family believed him to be dead. It is safe to say Toya didn't have an easy life.
- Dark and Troubled Past: He came from a wealthy heroic family with his father being the Number Two hero, Endeavor. His father, wanting to surpass All Might at any cost, sired a son with Rei Todoroki who he planned to train as his successor and achieve his ultimate goal. However, Toya was born with a body that didn’t suit his Quirk, meaning that he would severely hurt himself if he continued to use it. Endeavor
openNamesTheSame Cleanup?
Many of the examples listed under Names The Same contradict what the entry says.
Common names and/or first names only, whereas the main page says they need to be identical first and last names.
- Marge: Ed Huddles' wife or Homer Simpson's wife.
- Marie is either a cute kitten or the blue-haired Kanker.
- Mariposa is the Spanish word for "butterfly", but it could also refer to either a butterfly fairy or Marco Diaz's baby sister.
- Margo is either the eldest of the Gru girls, a stuck-up stick bug, or one of Lynn's teammates.
- Not to be confused with Margot, a female mallard who attends Perfecto Prep or Margaux, a friend of Punky Brewster.
- Maurice is either Belle's father, King Julien's assistant, or Twister's real name.
- Mavis is either a diesel engine who works for the Ffarqhuar Quarry Company or Count Dracula's daughter.
- Spelled various ways, Terry/Terri/Teri could be either one half of a pair of homosexual news reportersnote , a hypochondriac paper bear, two monsters that share a body, one of the Mc Nulty brothers, one of a pair of twins attending Springfield Elementary, a cryogenics scientist with a flair for drama, a different news reporter with luscious red hair, or some sort of legally safe knockoff of an 80s horror character with miniature swords for fingers instead of knives.
Obvious literary and historical references, which are not coincidental.
- Balrog is most famously either the American Boxer in English or the Spanish Ninja in Japanse, as well as the anthropomorphic bar of soap. It's also one of the aliens in Insaniquarium. Then there's the Balrog, in several The Lord of the Rings-inspired games. Or the Grandmaster's flying battleship in the Strider games.
- The Bandersnatch. Recurring enemy and/or boss in the series? Or a one-armed B.O.W. lurking around Rockfort Island?
- You got Fatman, a mad bomber on rollerblades hell-bent on blowing up The Big Shell, and the Fat Man, a nuclear catapult weapon capable of launching miniature nukes. There's also the eponymous villain from Tongue of the Fatman. And then there is FATMAN from Armored Core.
Intentional examples of reusing character names, either by the creative staff or a franchise, violating the "coincidental" and "unrelated works" clauses in the header (and thus more fit for Production Throwback or Mythology Gag).
- Star Wars: The Clone Wars includes a Roonan senator named Aang, not to be confused with the Avatar. Likely not a coincidence, as The Clone Wars director Dave Filoni previously worked on Avatar.
- Oddly enough, the Transformers franchise does this within itself. Being named Prowl, Thrust, Snarl, Inferno, or one of any of the other most common names in the Cybertronian phone book, it doesn't mean you've got anything in common with anyone else with the same name.
- The Defenders: The first from 1961, the second from 2010. Both unrelated to each other apart from being on CBS.
- It's also the name of a Marvel comic book, and a Netflix series based on Marvel Comics.
Things that aren't character names (and are so generic they're not really noteworthy):
- Both Friday Night Lights and Degrassi have High School teams named Panthers with school colo(u)rs blue and gold. A classic Justified Trope since neither series uses Where the Hell Is Springfield? with one school in Texas and the other in Toronto.
- Both are named after real schools' teams: Odessa Permian HS and Paris District HS.
- In Star Trek, a replicator is a machine capable of creating (and recycling) objects. In Stargate SG-1, a replicator is an antagonistic self-replicating machine that propagates by ingesting the metals that make up civilizations and use them to create either blocks that form the bug-like version or smaller cells that compose the human-form "Replicators".
There's probably a dozen other issues, but the page too huge to go through since people keep adding meaningless bloat based on vague similarities. I think the page needs to be gutted and clear notability guidelines established.
Edited by WarriorsGateopenCreate parent universe trope? Literature
I built the Threadbare and Small Medium entries regarding series by Andrew Seiple set in the common universe of Generica Online. I occasionally find myself copy-pasting entries to both pages when I find a trope common to the universe in general. To use a mildly trivial example, the world has an in-universe Cap on class levels (due to the world being associated in some way with an MMORPG) that has in-story effects. I could list that the cap exists on both works pages, but it seems to make more sense to put it on a Generica Online page.
openTo Split, or Not To Split?
Tiny Meat Gang is a page that has bugged me for a while, because it doesn't just trope the duo as a musical act / podcast, but also contains tropes pertaining to Cody Ko's YouTube channel, which (especially recently) hasn't always even involved Noel (who also has his own channel).
Should the page be split into Music/ (or Podcast/) and then a Web Video page for Cody himself?
openSelf-Rule 34
Would examples where a creator themself makes Rule 34 of their own characters (outside the actual canon) go under Rule 34 – Creator Reactions?
Edited by Opabiniaopen Drafts that don’t get crosswicked
I can come up with a number of tropes that get launched from the TLP and don’t get crosswicked for a while, such as Single-Season Country, Poisoned Drink Drop, and many more. If nothing is done to these pages for a period of time, they’ll eventually fade to dust.
As someone who takes the time to crosswick pages after I launch them, I think it’s really annoying and unfair to people like me who put in the extra work to make sure the page is just like any others.
I didn’t go to the Projects: Short Term forum and start a cleanup thread because I don’t know if this is a big enough problem to warrant one. I think we should always PM the launcher and ask them to crosswick their page, and after so many warnings, action gets taken.
Is anyone else annoyed by this? I think, at the very least, you should be required to add the trope to Pages Needing Wicks if you’re not going to bother to crosswick them yourself.
Edited by MylesHenryVigilSropenOverly long entry Film
The YMMV page for Black Panther has a very long entry for Draco in Leather Pants:
- Thanks to his sympathetic backstory as well as the fact he makes a few good points about social and political issues, Killmonger has a few zealous fans who tend to completely overlook the fact that he's still a remorseless killer who has no qualms about innocent people (even children) dying for the sake of his goals. Sterling K. Brown even spoke out
about it, pointing out that while his intentions were noble, he committed several unambiguously evil acts including murdering his girlfriend, killing Zuri, and destroying the heart-shaped herb so he could keep the Black Panther powers for himself. Hell, his very first scene in the movie has him mocking a totally innocent tour guide for drinking poisoned coffee, just because her understanding of African history is based on Western academic beliefs (even though she's likely just repeating what she's been taught, and is actually being quite nice to him.) Marvel Studios themselves seem to have realized they made the character too sympathetic as the character's next appearance in the ''What If?'' series serves as a further indictment of the character by dismantling whatever justifications he has for his actions, demonstrating how flawed his plan is, and showing he cares more about himself than other black people.
This comes off more like an essay, and I think the opening lines make the point well enough. Should this be trimmed down?
Edited by Javertshark13open The Problem With Pen Island's subpages are too large and need cleanup
So, I went to The Problem with Pen Island's two subpages (both detailing This Very Wiki) and found a lot of typos. While this is not so bad as I usually fix it myself, the pages are huge, and it'd take me around an hour to clean up a folder.
Should we split the pages? What do we do about all the cleanup needed? And why has this gone unnoticed for so long? (Or am I not meant to touch those pages?)
Edited by ARandomPageopenMulti-language quote
So I checked out Administrivia.Text Formatting Rules to check out its quote formatting section and I didn't get the answer to my question, so here it is - how do we format a quote if the person switches languages throughout it?
Specifically, I'm eventually going to propose a Complete Monster quote, and the speaker is a Chinese-American who switches languages throughout the quote. For a brief excerpt, he says "I want you to show yourself for the good of all", then immediately switches to Chinese to say "I don't want to shoot you all". How would that be formatted? Would we just italicize the Chinese parts or something else??
openEvilIsCool.DemonSlayer Anime
I noticed in YMMV.Demon Slayer Kimetsu No Yaiba that the villains Doma and Muzan are listed under the trope Evil Is Cool. While you might be able to argue that Doma falls into this trope (I haven't read the manga), the reasons listed line up better with Love to Hate, which he's already listed as.
Muzan himself is another matter. Not only are his actions gratuitous and very excessive (including the way he acts towards his henchmen), he's also considered to be an Anti-Climax Boss due to the fight against him being thought of as less interesting than his subordinates due to him being Unskilled, but Strong.
Edited by 227someguyopenGainax Ending Cleanup?
So I wasn't sure about posting this in short term projects, as I wanted to get some consensus first.
But I was going through Gainax Ending after being potholed there and...it has some problems. I don't think the trope itself needs to be fixed, but there is some misuse, and it also leads into complaining as editors often use it as a way of saying "this ending is confusing and that means bad".
Here's an example:
- Lost seems like this trope if you have no knowledge of 2,000 year old religions like Neoplatonism or Gnosticism that it draws from (or can't type "dharma" into Wikipedia). Since the ending does make sense but is hidden under enough Mind Screw to not have an easy explanation, it is the second form of Gainax Ending. If an ending requires a couple of college courses (such as "Religious Studies") or other extensive off-screen research to understand it, it's a Gainax Ending.
Sniping aside, this example tells me precisely nothing about what actually happens in the ending of Lost. Now, I've seen it, but if I hadn't, this example would be the opposite of informative.
But there are plenty of examples where I haven't seen the thing in question, so I wouldn't know to correct them. But there are also a lot of ZC Es (one example in Film mentions a Sy Fy original but doesn't even name the film in question), that amount to "X movie has an ending that is totally crazy, nobody knows what it means!" without saying what makes the ending so crazy.
The example for Dr. T and the Women does this as it does mention what happens- "the protagonist ends up in Mexico and helps deliver a baby." which ironically leaves out the part this actually odd-he only gets to Mexico (presumably) because a tornado drops him there.
Is this a big enough issue to require a Clean-up thread? Or should I just correct the examples I know about (like Lost) and leave the rest up to others.
Also-should Gainax Ending really apply to say, season finales or the like? I saw an episode on Euphoria (which is what brought me here), that was basically "this season ends on a weird note, but then subsequent events make it more clear".
open Werewolf game? Videogame
I played an FMV adventure videogame in the late 90s or early 21st century. You played a cop of some sort, I think, and there were werewolves. The cop might have been a werewolf himself, I don't know.
Does anyone recognise this?
Edit: Sorry, I thought I **was** asking this on You know that show. Cheers.
Edited by BreehcNicdollopenNeed help with profile images
I've tried to give myself a profile image for years but can't. Can anyone help?
openHow to fix miscapitalized namespaces Videogame
So I noticed that Need for Speed has a Tear Jerker page, but the namespace is written Tearjerker.Need For Speed, and according to Administrivia.Namespace, it should be written TearJerker/. I remembered that we used to have a system of storing the content of a page on a Sandbox and then ask for the page to be cut so that it could be recreated with the properly capitalized namespace, but going over to the Sandbox I found out that the sandbox itself was cut, with the reason being "method seems to have been discontinued". I was wondering if I could be directed to what the current method is.
Edited by JamesAustinopenWeird Folder Titles
While randomly bouncing through the wiki, I ran across Asian Speekee Engrish. Everything seems fine, except every folder has switched R for L (instead of film-live action, it reads "Firm - Rive Action). The trope description is written normally, the examples are written normally (as far as I saw), just the folders have this.
I guess it's trying to be self demonstrating (except this is far more Japanese Ranguage, which is also normal), but it reads very badly, and not even consistently (Other is spelled Othel, which isn't even stereotypically correct).
Would it be okay to simply change the titles, or is there a process to go through?
openWork pages that act as genres
I brought this up a few days ago on the Roleplay cleanup thread
, but since the pages in question have a lot of inbounds I'd like to get a bit more input before doing anything with the pages.
Roleplay.Jumpchain and Fanfic.Planetarily Annihilating Self Insertion are pages that describe subgenres instead of specific works. Neither of them are in good enough shape that I feel comfortable putting them on the TPL (Jumpchain uses a lot of niche jargon that isn't explained and doesn't actually list any works of that subgenre, while Planetarily Annihilating Self Insertion is mostly extolling the virtues of a specific fanfic writer and is otherwise very bare of description).
Is it alright to cut the pages?
openMisuse on LethalJokeCharacter page Videogame
I saw a recent query about an edit on Lethal Joke Character, so I checked out the page to see what it was about.
I found that
- The trope description clearly says that this is a video game trope, and lists a number of related tropes that would apply to non-game contexts.
- Despite this, the example list has a entire section for "non-gaming examples", which is apparently large enough to be sub-divided into folders.
- One of the non-gaming folders is "real life". How can there be joke characters in real life?
This is of course rampant, systematized misuse, but what should we do about it? Does this warrant taking the trope to TRS (with the possibility of broadening the trope), or would a cleanup suffice? Unfortunately, I'm very pressed for time myself right now or I would already have started cleaning up, but I thought I'd at least report it.
Edited by GnomeTitan

Just checked the subpage, MesACrowd.Film, the last time I saw that being several months ago and... what happened all the examples? The entire list has been neutered to two entries...
I checked the Edit reason and it seems like half of the stuff has been relocated to Self-Duplication. Which is fine, but a further line below claims the "other" half of the examples are moved to Bio Duplication, a trope that... uh, doesn't seem to exist.
Also, is there a rule for borderline page blanking without enquiring the rest of the forum? Or maybe I missed out a forum announcement or something?
EDIT: Also its just the film's subpage, I checked the Me's a Crowd pages for Anime, TV series, Video games, books, none of them seems edited
Edited by RobertTYL