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Ask the Tropers:
resolved Collaborative Works and Auto-Erotic Troping
I think it's time for me to finally face the music on this one.
About ten years ago, my fellow Dino Attack RPG players and I created the RPG's page here on TV Tropes. In addition to cataloging many tropes from the RPG itself (across four trope pages and multiple character pages), we also created YMMV pages (including awesome, heartwarming, tearjerker, and nightmare fuel subpages) and a Trivia page. Back then, most of us had simply browsed TV Tropes for fun and weren't aware of all the rules and policies.
Recently, I've had to take more time to better familiarize myself with TV Tropes' rules. One such policy that I've seen brought up here in Ask The Tropers is Auto-Erotic Troping for works that you've created. Basically, the key point here is "No Audience Reactions" and "No Trivia that can't be individually researched". The latter seems easy enough; just make sure there's a public source that can verify whatever is added to the Trivia page. But the former... where does it stand with a collaborative work, such as an RPG with Loads and Loads of Writers?
Even before seeing this policy, I tended to be mindful of any YMMV entries that I'd add. Essentially, I would only add my own reactions to things other players had written, or other players' reactions to things I had written. For example, Dr. Michelle Glados is a character I wrote, but her entry under Complete Monster is based directly upon a comment
from another player. Meanwhile, I added entries for Kotua as That One Boss and Plastic Serpent as Unintentionally Sympathetic, which are my own personal reactions to characters written by other players. However, this is not always the case, especially in older YMMV entries from ten years ago, or with Hilarious in Hindsight (where I confess that I've been adding some entries based on my own writings without other peoples' reactions, largely because the actual "audience reaction" aspect of the trope is loosely applied at best).
I am willing to cull the RPG's YMMV pages if they aren't outright cut in order to meet TV Tropes policy. But first, I just want to know whether my "only trope writer reactions to other writers" rule of thumb is kosher under Auto-Erotic Troping collaborative works, or if I've been doing this all wrong for the past ten years. Please advise.
openAllForNothing discussion.
Can something count as all for nothing if it happened before the story? In the fanfic A Rabbit Among Wolves Blake and Sienna feel that their involvement in the White fang was pointless as they sacrificed their morals, and Blake abandoned her home to accomplish nothing. Here is the original example someone else removed.
- All for Nothing: As Jaune's success grows and people become more receptive to the White Fang, both Sienna and Blake express uncertainty about their previous actions in the radicalized version of the group, asking themselves what exactly they accomplished for the cause of faunus by making themselves into feared criminals. Both soberly come to the answer of "nothing", meanwhile Jaune has come around and in the space of a couple months, not only healed much of the damage they caused but done more to relieve the plight of faunus than anyone has in years. For Sienna the realization is bittersweet, but Blake pushes back against Jaune's popularity in large part because she doesn't want to believe that she and Adam made the wrong choices when there was a better way.
- Jaune himself disagrees with this notion. He believes that both the failed, peaceful White Fang and its violent successor were necessary for his own success.
Jaune: I was seen as the better version of the White Fang, but if there hadn't been a worse version for people to demonise, then I wouldn't have gained half the following I did.Ghira: Then was I wrong? To try the peaceful approach?Jaune: No. It was needed to fail to spark the violence, and it was needed so that people could look at the new, violent White Fang in anger and think fondly of the kind and benevolent group under the leadership of Ghira Belladonna.
- Jaune himself disagrees with this notion. He believes that both the failed, peaceful White Fang and its violent successor were necessary for his own success.
openUnfortunate Implications issues?
UnfortunateImplications.Live Action Film
- In Law Abiding Citizen, the line "Fuck his civil rights" can really rub people the wrong way and give them the wrong impression, as it more or less implies the law is pretty corrupt and will throw ordinary people to the wolves if need be, as one review
points out:
"But if Law Abiding Citizen wants to be a story about an ordinary man — Shelton — who takes back a power he believes has been given up to those in charge — Rice — a power those in charge have abused, why is it ultimately espousing a route that would do nothing but give those in authority even more power over ordinary people? If Shelton’s civil rights are fucked, then so are yours and mine."- Which is the point that Shelton was trying to make all along: without violating the law and Clyde's rights in the name of bringing him to justice at any cost, Nick and co. would never get him. To succeed, they had to become much like Shelton himself during his work for the government. Which, in turn, leads to a very uncomfortable question of where is the fine line between doing horrible things in the name of justice, and outright abuse of power for whatever goal.
Is the last part Natter? Arguing against itself? Mean it's not an example of intentional? (TRS
didn't get enough votes to require it be unintentional, but didn't outright decide if it should be.) Or is it a separate point requiring a separate citation.
open Permission to remove
Yesterday a troper by the name of GRD added these
to the Meme Page
of Genshin Impact:
- Ganyu x Childe/Ganyu's Horns Explanation A mega-cursed meme spawned from a super cursed hentai of Childe essentially raping Ganyu so violently, he ''snapped'' one of her horns in the process. Given how innocent and beloved Ganyu is within the wider Genshin Impact fandom, expect this meme to prop up with much derision amongst Ganyu fans whenever someone unknowingly (or ''knowingly'') post any images or mentions of Ganyu with Childe or Ganyu's horns.
- Yoimiya and Hilichurls Explanation In the same vain as the aforementioned Ganyu x Childe meme, there is another super cursed meme relating to Yoimiya, this time with Hilichurls. The context is that there is an extremely violent guro hentai of Yoimiya being murdered, dismembered and eaten by a group of Hilichurls. The context was so shocking that it quickly circulated within the Genshin fandom. Like the equally cursed Ganyu meme, folks who unintentionally (or intentionally) put Yoimiya with a bunch of Hilichurls will create much derision and obvious scorn from Yoimiya mains.
I would remove them myself as they make me very uncomfortable, but I’d like a consensus before I do.
Edited by LeobraceropenQuestion about crosswicking
Alright, so a few Bury Your Art examples added post-launch have been added only to the page itself and are not crosswicked to their respective Trivia pages. Is that against the rules? And if so, should I send crosswicking notifiers, or no?
openGodzillaFan1954
Could someone please help me check the accuracy of their edits? I recently had to revert their apparent attempt to make the Channel Hop entry on Trivia.Willy Wonka And The Chocolate Factory much less accurate, but they also worked on pages about subjects I don't know much about myself. At the least, they don't bother italicizing movie titles.
openEdit War on Characters / Genshin Impact The Fatui Harbingers
Courtesy link here
.
- On July 11, ashlay added
the Me's a Crowd entry to Dottore's profile.
- Me's a Crowd: As discussed in the "A Winter Night's Lazzo" trailer, Dottore has multiple bodies called "segments" apparently connected to certain ages in his life, with a younger one attending a funeral in Snezhnaya while the one in the prime of his life is plotting an experiment in "blasphemy" in Sumeru. The version in the prequel webcomic also has considerably shorter hair than these two, suggesting that Dottore was an even younger segment.
- 13 days later, I switched over the entry
to Self-Duplication with this edit reason: "Me's A Crowd misuse. The more appropriate trope here is Self Duplication, since Me's a Crowd is a plot trope about using clones to complete mundane chores."
- Just today, ashlay switched it back
to Me's a Crowd with this edit reason: "It's not established as a superpower persay as much as an extended process given they're linked to certain ages rather than just a bunch of them like Otto in Honkai, also the trailer specifically shows he has clones that allow him to do an experiment and attend a funeral at once."
openAcceptableTargets in VideoGame/ApexLegends
I am admittedly not 100% clear on how Acceptable Targets works, but I felt like these examples from YMMV.Apex Legends needed to be brought to attention given that they seem to be more centred on how the fanbase feels about certain things within the game or community rather than examples of the creators intentionally poking fun at real-life people, groups or ideologies.
- Acceptable Targets:
- In trailers, the characters most likely to die or be injured are Mirage, Octane, Caustic, and Bangalore.
- Wraith and Octane players tend to receive a lot of derision due to the stereotype that they're hard to cooperate with; said stereotype being defined by Leeroy Jenkins players who run off by themselves, get downed, then complain that nobody else is playing with them and/or disconnect immediately.
- "TTVs" are next in line to be ridiculed by the playerbase. Alongside the above stereotypes of being Leeroy Jenkins that try to impress their viewers by charging headlong into fights to get as many kills as they can, they're also commonly associated with trash-talking, making excuses or accusing players who kill them of hacking, and Inserting TTV into their names to plug their channels.
Once again, I might be wrong and these examples may be perfectly acceptable. I just wanted to check with someone who has more knowledge on the Acceptable Targets trope rather than jump to conclusions.
Edited by WiryAiluropodineopenlink to video with some NSFW imagery
On Pitch (2009), I've linked to an upload of the film by the director/writer. The film has some NSFW imagery in it, but you won't see any just by following the link — the video doesn't autoplay, and the thumbnail is SFW.
Does the work page/link need a warning about NSFW content? The video page itself has a warning in the description, but it's under the video, where people might miss it.
openProbably very stupid question re: edit warring
This is probably the dumbest question on the planet, and I'm very sorry but I've been up for a very long time and my brain's single working brain cell is struggling to cope.
Can you edit war with yourself?
Like, say you put an example on a page. Then you think the example was wrong so you cut it. Then you realize that the example was actually right all along so you put it back.
That's not going to get you in trouble, is it?
open The Issue of Snapdragon
So, in High Guardian Spice, there's a character named Snapdragon who struggles with their gender identity and was eventually confirmed in an external source to be Trans. Our page (and other wiki-based sources) only describes them with female pronouns as a result...
...But there's a problem here. See, in the show proper, Snapdragon was never actually confirmed to be Trans. Everyone calls them male, and it ended on the note of them starting to consider their options, with the biggest change being Snap starting to paint their nails. So there's a case that can be made that they should actually be called by male pronouns, to keep it consistent with the work itself even if it ultimately contradicts Word of God.
I brought this up here
, but nobody replied there and I didn't know if it was the right thread anyway, but it's been on my mind and I think we need to figure out the correct course of action. Similar to how we did for that character from One Piece people won't stop arguing about, or the Toaster from Brave Little Toaster.
openProblem eith Room 101's description
Room 101 currently has this paragraph in the description:
I think it doesn't belongs there. As far as I understand, Room 101 is about the location where something horrible occurs, so horrible that the audience never witness the act itself yet the effect on the character is so clear that nobody question it. This paragraph is focus on the torture method (as noted, never actually seen in the work) and not the location.
Edited by KuruniopenLucy Lane = Unintentionally Unsympathetic? Live Action TV
A few days ago, I described Lucy, younger sister of Lois Lane, as Unintentionally Unsympathetic in the YMMV page of Superman & Lois with the following argument:
"An argument can be made that Lucy was treated with a lot of sympathy for someone who willingly betrayed her own family and endangered her own universe in service of a cult leader. Over the course of season 2, Lucy attempts to destroy her sister's reputation, drugs her father to break Ally out of military custody and almost gets Superman (her own brother-in-law) killed but her family doesn't have any hard feelings against her. Further aggravating the issue is that she doesn't suffer any comeuppance for her actions. Sure, she feels guilty for almost getting Superman killed, but it comes off as Lucy repenting her actions when she herself suffers from them. Possibly justified due to the fact that Sam and Lois aren't angry at Lucy but rather at Ally for manipulating Lucy and at themselves for failing Lucy when she needed them most, but it's still notable."
I really don't want to come off as the guy trying to editorialize his opinions and I certainly don't hate Lucy as a character or as a concept. I just don't like what the show did with Lucy.
So, what do you think?
Edited by MasterHeroopenTitanic video for Crowd Panic Film
Hi. I noticed that the video example for Crowd Panic, which is from Titanic (1997), has a mouse cursor embedded in the video itself. I was wondering if someone could upload a new, cleaner version, as the final plunge is an excellent example of this trope.
open How long should a page be to be folderized?
GenreTurningPoint.Live Action Films has gotten pretty long and isn't folderized. I want to do it myself, but I wanted to ask how long a page should get to be deemed folder-worthy before I do. How long should a page be to be folderized?
openBows and Errors Issue
Scrolling Bows and Errors and I'm noticing a lot of people citing the keeping a bow strung thing for situations where unstringing it would make no sense like temporarily "holstering" during a combat mission or carrying it around for potential self-defense in a fantasy setting
Edited by CryptidProductionsopenGrand Finale misuse?
- While it wasn't intended to be at the time, Licence to Kill would prove to be not only Timothy Dalton's last go around as Agent 007, but it was also the last film that would extensively adapt elements and characters from Ian Fleming's books until Casino Royale in 2006, the fifth and final Bond film to be directed by John Glen, the last to feature actors Robert Brown as M and Caroline Bliss as Miss Moneypenny respectively, the final Bond film to be co-written by Richard Maibaum, the final Bond film with opening credits by Maurice Binder, and the final Bond film to be produced by Albert R. Broccoli. It was also the final Bond film to be shot during the Cold War, although the plot isn't related to it. Licence to Kill itself concludes with Bond still on the outs from MI 6 after successfully avenging the brutal attack his friend, Felix Leiter. And yet, there's also the feeling that with Pam Bouvier, Bond has finally found his true love, someone he can finally settle down with. Especially now with the likes Blofeld and his other big shot enemies gone. While Pam may have not been as good of a character as Tracy was in On Her Majesty's Secret Service, she was more Bond's equal. Patti LaBelle's closing song, "If You Asked Me To" also has a more bittersweet feeling to it than other closing songs from Bond films of the time. And even though the closing credits sequence concluded with the customary "JAMES BOND WILL RETURN" caption, many people weren't so sure as Bond was considered irrelevant by this point. So if Bond did return, it wouldn't be a for a long time. So the ending to Licence to Killnote Complete with a winking fish statue nearby a swimming pool. felt like a "Goodbye, for now!"
I suspect this may misuse as there are many otherwise possible examples not listed because they were due to being Cut Short or other outside circumstance (which an unintended finale like this sounds like) and the last part is subjective which this trope isn't. The narrative closure which is the heart of this trope is noted to be incidental and at odds with other parts. If the entry is a valid Grand Finale entry I'd not sure it properly conveys that as written.
Thoughts?
openReport New Troper
Okay, I don't normally jump to reporting a new troper for issues, but there's so many things going on here I don't know where to start. Basically, justSomeGuy1 seems to have joined the wiki to edit the page for Fanfic.Heroes Series, which I happen to follow. Having apparently began editing this morning, they have:
- Created a Fanfic Recs page for a fanfic (specifically, FanficRecs.Avengers Of The Ring), which they eventually blanked and ended up cut
- Tweaked the main page for the fanfic 49 times, including:
- Taking around six tries
to properly link to Ascended Meme (which is misuse anyway, since this is a fanfic that's just referencing the memes in question)
- Added multiple blue links which, while pointing to the right place, are incredibly excessive (it's basically every time they referenced a character, they added a link to the character's franchise or page)
- They clearly don't know how to wiki link single words, because every time they tried to link to Smallville, they'd just write Series/Smallville - they eventually just gave up and wrote around it instead of fixing the link
- Added multiple spoilers that either aren't formatted right (such as multiple single word spoilers here
and here
), aren't spoilers for the fic (such as spoiling out that Thanos gets the Infinity Stones and Snaps, even though that was in the third story of twenty-two in the series), or even just getting the markup wrong like here
- Taking around six tries
- This is more of a gripe than an actual complaint, but they add Main/ to all of their trope titles instead of just spelling them out
- Added an unapproved CM entry to the YMMV page
- In the process of tweaking, they kept adding information, making grammar mistakes, or just moving examples around in their lists seemingly randomly, so now the page history is clogged up with random tweaks
Like I said, I don't like jumping straight to reporting someone who is clearly new, but they're rushing so fast into editing that they didn't seem to actually realize how anything worked first, and now the page needs a reversion to before their first edit here
. I can add back in the stuff they got right, but while I would normally send notifiers myself, I don't even know where to start here, and I honestly think they'd benefit most from slowing down and reading the Administrivia pages before they edit again.

Quotes.Jethro Q Walrustitty
this isn't allowed, right?
e: their troper page doesn't even show up on the quotes page. Jethro Q Walrustitty
Edited by ChloeJessica