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Ask the Tropers:
open Self-inflicted Force Feeding
Can a work have Force Feeding wicked if the force feeding in question is self-inflicted? Asking for future reference.
openValid website page?
Is Asexuality Archive a valid page? A lot of the examples seem to be about the author himself and the page seems more or less about a blog with some educational aspects. I'm not too sure on how websites are treated, but since we're cracking down on Lets Plays for not having any tropeable or transformative material and being mostly just reactions to a thing, I wondered about this page too
openUnintentionally Unsympathetic overly-trimmed?
UnintentionallyUnsympathetic.Comic Books
- Sonic the Hedgehog (IDW): Readers who have taken issue with Sonic's decisions to let his adversaries go have generally also begun viewing him more in this light, arguing that he's become more insensitive towards other characters who have reason to be skeptical of his choices, seemingly caring more about his own righteousness in letting go of his adversaries than about how it may affect everyone else.Specific examples In issue #12, he brushes aside Tails' concerns about letting Metal Sonic go free and that they need to "honor his decision" (which leads to Metal returning to the Final Egg just in time to restore Mr. Tinker back to his Eggman self); in issue #24, he gets into a brief-yet-heated argument with Espio about how they should've better handled the Mr. Tinker situation then and there to ensure he wouldn't commit acts of evil again; in issue #32, he shows that he still hopes that Eggman can change for the better despite the Zombie Apocalypse he had just caused; in issue #44, Zavok himself calls out Sonic for his mercy in merely exiling the Deadly Six back to the Lost Hex (in spite of the torment they put him, Tails and the entire world through in Sonic Lost World alone), with Sonic asserting that he won't "sacrifice [his] principles out of fear"; and in issue #50, he tells Surge that he still believes that even [Eggman and Starline] deserve the freedom to live life for the better. Likewise, upon first meeting Belle during the Chao Races and Badnik Bases arc, he somehow mistakes her for an evil robot (despite looking and acting nothing like one), tries to destroy her and later leave her behind in the middle of nowhere despite his earlier insistence on showing mercy, giving chances and not assuming the worst about everyone and everything. Sonic also comes off to these readers as being more judgmental and condescending than his usual characterization when being faced with opposing views, and emphasizing his own viewpoint as being noble regardless of his allies' own views.Specific examples The case where he claps back at Shadow to remember his own villainous history— despite it being misguided compared to Eggman's self-aware egotism, his redemption not being the result of amnesia, and how Shadow's knowingly atoned for it since— during their fight in issue #6; claiming to "honor [Metal Sonic's] decision" in issue #12 but chastising him for being a "one-note jerk" for rejoining Eggman later in issue #26; the aforementioned heated argument with Espio in issue #24, who was shown to be visibly traumatized by Charmy and Vector's Zombot infections in the issues prior; and spending his fight with Surge in issue #50 brushing off her Tragic Villain nature, quipping and spouting out that he's having "fun" during their battle, and making a speech about why he chooses to give everyone the freedom of mercy, in contrast to how Tails at least tries talking things out with Kit. This tweet
shows a fan reaction of the most recent of these.
This was trimmed to this citing "Trimming down the entry and removing blatant one-sided arguments".
- Sonic the Hedgehog (IDW): Some readers have taken issue with Sonic's Thou Shall Not Kill attitude, arguing that his decision to let his enemies go has had disastrous, unintentional consequences on those around him.
The revised entry fixes the complaining but now fails to explain how it's unintentional/why they were supposed to be sympathetic. What to do? I asked UU Cleanup
but heard nothing back.
openTroper with overly defensive attitude
First a brief background. About a month ago, I once again hunt down This Troper using Google-Fu to track them down among wilderness that's moment pages (good news, I think they're gone from Nightmare Fuel/ and Tearjerker/). I sometime leave "Kill This Troper" as edit reason (as in terminate the usage of the term, in silar fashion to "kill a process") when remove it. A strong word, but I'm certain that it isn't rude (especially when removing this troper).
Today, I got rudeness notifier from Tropers/littlemisstfp2 regarding such edit
(a pure self-insert that has nothing to does with the entry) on NightmareFuel.Transformers Cyberverse. As noted, I don't think it's rude and replied as such. But digging a little more on the page's history reaveal two things.
- they were the one who added it
, and this is as recent as the last year's December (in contrast to most cases I found, which are usually years old).
- This edit
on Awesome.Transformers Cyberverse remove spoiler tag from page quote, which is a good thing, but their edit reason "Here to fix this before Wafer responds with more insults. Heheheheh" suggest a history with another troper.
Maybe I'm bias and reading too much into it (their edits are fine otherwise as far as I saw). And maybe the cultural difference make me misjudge the significant of the word "kill" (in that case, please say so). But I think they're acting too defensive.
Edited by KuruniopenEdit war on Trivia.Deltarune
On Trivia.Deltarune, beanedtron has twice edited the Promoted Fanboy entry to read Promoted Fan, due to the creator it regards being nonbinary. This contradicts the recently-updated policy on gendered redirects
which restricts them to Character Sheets.
We've already sent them a message, but since we're getting Righting Great Wrongs vibes here, we're also putting up a report in case they decide to make a thing about it. and also as a reminder to ourself to actually edit the page once they respond if they don't
open Most Edited Playing With Page?
Apologies in advance if this seems like a waste of time. It's just a personal challenge, something that wouldn't change the grand scheme of things. Basically, making The Idiot From Osaka as the most edited Playing With page possible.
I've seen Karma Houdini as the most edited Playing With page, with 176 edits counting myself. The edits tell me it's the most edited while my gut doesn't. Is there a way I can find the most edited Playing With page?
openTroper with a history of spam
Sheiam-akanda's edit history
is entirely edits to their troper page, vandalism to Laura Bailey, and the creation of spam subpages for Laura Bailey, all seemingly to self-promote.
openSome questions about translations
I consume Korean media but don't understand the language myself. How do I write information that didn't make it to the English translation?
- One character's surname is revealed to be "강" (Gang or Kang) outside of the story proper. As far as I remember, all names in the official translation use "k" instead of "g", so is it safe to assume the same for this name?
- A two-season webcomic has its first season translated in English but not its second season. The second season is available in French, along with a subtitle. What do I do about the subtitle? The French translation also hyphenates the names while the English translation doesn't. Should I remove the hyphens from names of season two characters? (Edit: I also have a question about nicknames.)
HoMM Fan
open Possible overcorrection by Troper
I know natural-strap is already being discussed in another ATT, but I felt this one was worth talking about separately.
they removed
this note from Evolving Trope under portrayal of Germans in media.
"Members of the "Wehrmacht", the actual German military in that time period, need not even be Nazis in a political sense. Saying a German soldier is a Nazi is like saying an American soldier is a Republican or Democrat based purely on the party in power at the time."
with the reason
"the Clean Wehrmacht Myth is just a gussied-up form of soft Holocaust denial and has no place in a wiki that isn't explicitly about German self-justification""
Except... this isn't exactly an example of that. Myth of the Clean Wehrmacht means asserting that the Whermacht did nothing wrong, its commanders in particular. This entry just states that there may have been individual low ranking soldiers who may not have been Nazis in a political sense, which feels like a fair thing to say to me.
In addition, it's about portrayal in media, and there is definitely the presence of the "honorable non-nazi Wehrmacht solider" in media, whether or not it's historically correct.
I am holding on changing it without more feedback.
Edited by Tonwen
HoMM Fan
openTroper Creating Main wiki pages for nonexistant works
Kraken Nowak has been actively editing on TV Tropes since last October, and a majority of their edits are based around the works found on Creator.Gavin Nowak.
As you can tell, though, these works are all given release dates at least 5 years in the future, if not as many as 20, and there is no record of them actually existing anywhere other than the creator's head.
Normally I would move them myself, but I wanted to make an ATT about it as the creator is still active on TV Tropes and edited the pages just today.
resolved LGBT Fanbase example concerns
i am once again bothering tvt about hideri /s
so the LGBT Fanbase example on YMMV.Blend S lists that gender-nonconforming and transfem fans really like hideri (after a bit of tweaking from me, since the entry used to only list that GNC fans like them), but as far as i'm aware the common consensus on the wiki is that crossdressing and gender-nonconformity in general doesn't automatically equal LGBTQ+, and i feel like that part of the entry could be trimmed off considering that.
however, i'm a bit worried about doing so myself since it could come off as agenda-based, seeing that it's. not really a secret that i'm very much in the "transfem hideri" camp when it comes to the character in question, so i'm coming here for consensus. what do
Edited by worldwidewoomyopenExamples of Tropes Attempted, but Perhaps Failed Videogame
I find myself with a trope that I want to add to a page—but one in which, in my opinion, the trope was attempted but failed at. How should such a thing be approached...?
To be a little more specific:
In the game ShadowCaster, the player has access to a number of forms into which they can shapeshift, each having benefits and drawbacks. One form might be fast and strong, another slow but with ranged attacks, etc.
So, Multiform Balance has been implemented, one might note.
Except... that the forms are, in my opinion, not actually particularly balanced. For example, the above-mentioned "slow-but-ranged" character does have some good ranged abilities... but they rely on and quickly consume a somewhat-hard-(or-slow)-to-recover resource. What's more, that resource is shared between forms, so that one form consuming it means that it's less available for other forms to use. What's more, the form is, as mentioned, slow—painfully slow, I find.
But all of that is, of course, YMMV. Perhaps there are others out there who find the forms well-balanced!
So I'm not sure of how to proceed. My instinct is to note the attempt, and also note that it didn't work. But on the other hand, that's perhaps insufficiently objective for a main-page trope. On the third hand, however, to not mention it might suggest that the forms actually are balanced...
Hence my uncertainty! So: What do you advise?
openTroper Ignoring Notifiers
I'm back. I would like to report that Dat Boi 10 has been ignoring any notifiers I send them. For the record, I sent them a PM about this about a couple days ago. However, I haven't gotten a response to either any my PM or any of my notifiers.
The most recent notifier I sent was for a grammar mistake, namely in Characters.Arknights Guards when they typed
"due" instead of "oue". They also used incorrect indentation at least several times, namely on
Characters.Arknights Snipers N To Z and the page
ThatOneLevel.Arknights.
I've also sent them several Administrivia.Word Cruft notifiers, like when they typed "Similarly". Now, I'm aware that that isn't WC by itself. However, when it starts a sub-bullet like in that edit
, it is. They also added
"basically" to GameBreaker.Arknights. In another edit to that page, they added
"pretty much".
I'm sorry if this isn't important. Personally, I'm unsure if this is suspensible, I just want to hear if a mod can fix this issue. Also, a couple mods told me that they prefer ATT posts rather than DMs.
EDIT: I fixed an error with a link.
Edited by RandomTroper123openProblems on Music/FallingInReverse Music
A number of examples on the page appear to be troping the frontman himself rather than either his work or performances or describing the real life history of the band using narrative tropes. Can I just remove them and rewrite the salvageable ones or is this big enough to take to a cleanup thread?
- The Atoner: Ronnie after making up with Craig in 2013 and becoming a father, seems to really want to ditch the past "Radical Ronnie" bravado he put on. He also seems incredibly regretful about the time he cheated on his girlfriend, especially as it caused him to see his daughter less. (this one's also a morality trope)
- Even the Guys Want Him: Ronnie.
(fanservice trope applied to a real person, Weblinks Are Not Examples and it's a matter of opinion)
- Jerkass: Ronnie Radke, if this video
is anything to go by. Several other people, including fans themselves, have even called him out on this. The incident where he threw a mic stand into the crowd at a show at Six Flags Great Adventure and managed to both send several people to the hospital and get heavier acts permanently banned from being booked at the park did not help matters.
- His choice of lyrical content is all you need to know Ronnie is a bit of a jerk, with lines like "They'll call me king of the music scene" (morality trope being applied to a real person and the second is both subjective and possibly complainy)
- Large Ham: Ronnie. (also zero context; could be rewritten to describe actual performances by someone who knows more about such things than I do)
- Long-Haired Pretty Boy: All of them, but especially Ronnie for most fangirls.
- Mr. Fanservice: Especially Ronnie and Jacky. (these two have the same problems as Even the Guys Want Him and are also zero context)
- Parental Abandonment: Ronnie's mom left him and his brother when they were young.
- He finally met her again in November 2013. (this is just straight up real life; it could be rewritten to describe songs that talk about his mother rather than the literal events)
- Sex, Drugs, and Rock & Roll: The focus of many of their songs, since they were apparently written by Ronnie while he was in jail and going through rehab. However, he is currently very much sober, and as much can be assumed for the other band members.
- Actually a requirement on tour. Ronnie is Straight Edge now, and doesn't trust himself around substances to the point of declaring them off limits on the bus. I See Stars were thrown off tour in 2012 when their keyboard player was arrested for weed possession. (everything past it being the subject of songs is real life)
- Start My Own: How the band was formed. Ronnie was mad at his former bandmates and swore to become bigger than they were. (For the record, they're about equal ever since.)
- Also why Max left. He'd been attempting to make a band of his own since being thrown out of ETF, and finally they debuted in 2016 as Violent New Breed.
- Jacky started a solo shred/instrumental rock project and eventually left to focus on it.
openTropers with an agenda
A couple of tropers, tsthysys09 and xxdster clearly have an editing agenda in the Final Fantasy XIII Main Party
and Lightning Returns Final Fantasy XIII
pages (links go to page histories), removing any and all examples that even tangentially refer to the Hope/Lightning ship and also the spoiler warning for Hope's folder (which I thought was extremely odd since that was added per the violation of spoiler policy thread and they didn't retag the spoilers).
Of note, tsthysys09 is a brand new account with only those two edits to the page and xxdster has been inactive since 2016, up until the 13th of this month, again with only edits to those pages. I think that's highly suspicious, either this is drama importation, or these two might possibly be the same person (possibly to avoid being suspended for an edit war) since xxdster would removed some tropes and then tsthysys09 would remove the exact same ones again after they were readded by another troper.
Some of these tropes were added by myself, and I don't want to stick myself in an edit war, so I'm bringing this here for attention.
openEditing quibble - HOTD Live Action TV
Hello everyone, I hope this is the correct place to ask this?
For this page https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Heartwarming/HouseOfTheDragon
(sorry I am not sure if there is a better way to link it) there has been some disagreement about it's contents.
I recently edited it to cut down some length; for example some of it went into too much paragraphs detail as opposed to a one paragraph summarization, I feel some personalised bits like "Fuck the Seven Strictures! And the Faith!" as a viewer's reaction don't fit and others are outright wrong in interpretation (while saying theirs confirms all other interpretations are wrong) as confirmed by a showrunner himself/ Word of God (Miguel Sapochnik). I didn't add anything, just removed some pieces.
I explained the reasons in the edit box as it would be improper to do such a shift without a given reason - however it has since been edited back with the following comments from the original editor;
"No-one who can't speak English properly is removing another's examples" / "Miguel Sapochnik told viewers their T Vs were at fault and not his lighting direction in 'The Long Night'. He has no right to give a carte blanche interpretation of a scene."
Can I ask what to do here? The first comment especially did feel hurtful and mean-spirited.
I would like to edit it since as I said I feel it goes off the format and it's confirmed some of it is incorrect, but I don't want to get into that with those sorts of comments to me or spark an editing scuffle which would be unfair for everyone.
openStFan and Unilateral Page Changes / Enforcing Preferred Policy
This came out of a recent ATT thread
I made asking to clarify a site policy. I'm pasting and expanding on a comment I made in that thread.
St Fan has a habit of editing pages to standardize the folders + categories which in of itself isn't bad. However, they often enforce a very particular idea of grammar and categorization that isn't necessarily based on any consensus/site policy and they will unilaterally edit the relevant pages where you would check to verify such a policy, later using that unilateral edit to justify making other edits elsewhere. See:
- This query [1]
and this one [2]
where St Fan states a "site policy" that has never existed as a fact to justify their edits
- Or this query
I made after messaging them about another page reordering they did for Mysterious Purple. In our messages, after I questioned the re-ordering, St Fan essentially told me that's how it's done on the index page, ergo that's the default policy and you can see him making the same argument in that thread here [3]
. And I find this suss b/c one glance at the page history for the Manga and anime indices would show St Fan reorganizing it going back to 2014 so of course it would reflect their personal organizing preferences. and in the end, the agreed upon ordering was what was originally there before St. Fan edited the page.
- this query
about St Fan making a unilateral edit to Media Categories. This is relevant because St Fan is "correcting" other pages based on this change they themself made, despite there being no consensus in favor of (or outright against) this change
- And this query
where they ignore the consensus built in the ATT thread to continue unilaterally editing out AC formatting for folders
I'm not sure how much if any of this is actually against site policy, but I wanted to consolidate all of this in one post because I've noticed this particular troper pop up quite a bit recently with similar issues
Edited by amathieu13openFound a 4chan forum story, is Literature the right place for it? Literature
Luke: The Plague Son of Nurgle
While doing some cleanup work, came across the above which appears to be an unstructured forum story told by multiple people in 2009 and interspersed with comments from anonymous posters. It's not referenced anywhere else on google besides tvtropes and the forum links themselves.
What is the criteria for a web original forum work being listed? Does it need to have an attributable author? Does it need to have evidence of a reader base? Is there some other criteria we use? Does it need to be something someone can actually pinpoint and consume with a clear line between the work itself and people commenting on it? Is there any kind of minimum length requirement?
When I came across this one, it didn't really seem to fit the "Literature" media space to me though I know WebSerialNovels do get classified under literature.
However, I'm not sure this forum story can even be classified as a novel so that's adding to my confusion.
The work page has 1 wick under "The Pig-Pen", 171 total inbounds, and looks to have been created on November 20, 2021 though the original 4chan threads look like they were all from November 2009.

YMMV.My Little Pony Make Your Mark
The latter I'm not sure about spoiling as it was in the trailer so it is not supposed to be a spoiler or so exposed that spoiling it is moot.
The former was a legit spoiler in the series premiere, but was also shown in said trailer. So is that the point we can un-spoil them? If not when (they seem poised to be the Big Bad so it's nigh-impossible to discuss the series without spoiling them)?