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openSelf-Reporting Edit War
I've been cleaning the Funny.RWBY page of Moments misuse (specifically: scene summaries, character reactions and using quotes as examples). Because I was cleaning up Moments misuse, and not removing audience reaction examples, I didn't check the History page first. I've received a PM pointing out that I've edit warred on the page.
After double-checking the page history, that's correct; I have.
The Volume 9 entries were originally added
by cybertoy0. I removed
them as part of a larger clean-up of the page for being summaries, character reactions and quotes instead of examples. He added some of them back
, and I removed them
for the same reason, also as part of the clean-up I was continuing to do today.
That was stupid of me, and I know better, but the damage is done.
Edited by WyldchyldopenIs this really Woolseyism? Web Original
I found this in Manga Soprano. To my understanding a Woolseyism is a change that people like but I think this example is just "Blind Idiot" Translation.
In the Japanese version
So what do I do with this example?
Edited by mickey96openTroping reality TV shows (e.g. Drag Race) - contestants, presenters and judges Live Action TV
So...
Following on from this post
on the Character Page Cleanup Thread, and this earlier Creator Page Cleanup
discussion, there seems to be a grey area with regard to troping reality TV.
Administrivia.Real Life Troping clearly says:
So, looking at something like RuPaul's Drag Race -
- I can see that the competing drag queens (who have very carefully constructed personas) can potentially be troped as characters in their drag identities.
- ...but do we trope the judges and others (e.g. the 'pit crew' teams, who have no alter ego and are scantily-dressed support staff) - we have character page tropes entries for them all, and things like Age-Gap Romance and Token Minority (for the only straight guy) troped for the real people. That feels like a step too far.
- We also have Characters page examples for things like Older Than They Look (no Real Life) for RuPaul, Berserk Button (referencing her Real Life childhood bullying) for judge Michelle Visage and similar examples from the contestants' real pre-show, offscreen lives. In some cases I'm not sure they've even been directly mentioned in the work itself.
I know an awful lot of effort's gone into some of the pages, and I don't want to make major changes without a consensus (which didn't really happen with the previous forum threads, hence this post) - the one comment on the last post seemed to agree that this crossed into NRLEP, though.
What are people's views?
Edited by Mrph1openNon-"Trope" Trivia, what to do?
Trivia.Pokemon Sword And Shield
Meta
- These are the first games to use an official Japanese version of the famous blue-and-yellow international logo of the franchise. Here's
a comparison of the game's Japanese and English logos for proof, and here's
◊ the new Japanese logo by itself.
I'm fuzzy on if/what items that don't fit Trivia "tropes". Is this allowed and if so how are such to be added/formatted?
Mickey Mouse Works segments:
- UsefulNotes/HighDefinition: This series was Disney's first animated show to be produced in widescreen HD, despite being made years before the format became dominant.
Useful Notes aren't allowed as examples, so should this be cut or is this fine to keep as a non-"trope" item? If keep how should it be formatted as the Sword And Shield formatting wouldn't work here?
openSmall edit war
On SignatureLine.Live Action Film, Dvaderstarlord5 added a few entries over
a
series
of
edits
, mostly MCU films.
Last Monday
, Frankencastle deleted all of it with the edit reason "It looks like some troopers are just adding in whatever lines they like rather than the lines that truly qualify as this trope. Because all of the lines I just deleted definitely don't qualify as Signature Lines."
The following day,
Dvaderstarlord 5 added back a couple of the lines with the edit reason "Also while I do think that I once again went overboard, I would say that these two are signature lines. For Wakanda Forever, Ramonda's line was both involved in a lot of the trailers and was a very powerful line in the movie itself. For Werewolf By Night, I would say that most of the fans I've talked to online have said that Jack saying what Man-Thing's name was is the most memorable line in the special and it was to me as well."
This is an edit war, right? Granted, it is a little lesser than your usual one since he only added back two lines, but it's still an edit war.
resolved Edit war
Reginald Ogron 5 introduced following edit to Hearts of Iron:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.HeartsOfIron#edit34958967
I slashed it, along with citing my reasons for that (and a quarter of all entries from that specific YMMV page are going to support those reasons). Except a few days later, the troper in question put it back without a single alternation
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.HeartsOfIron#edit34998908
So it's a double whammy: not only did he repost the same entry, but the entry itself claims things that aren't true, where stuff listed as supposed praises are widely considered to be Scrappy Mechanic within the playerbase.
openTechnical question
A while ago I decided to exhume an old TLP, Fantastic Display Jar
, that got nuked for unclear reasons. I brought this up in the Trope Idea Sounding Board and feedback was positive. The main question I have is that I'm not particularly clear on how to actually... un-nuke this. The TLP history doesn't go that far back and the draft itself doesn't have a "relaunch" button. Is there some way to revive this or should I just move the contents to a fresh draft?
openExcessive AlternateCharacterInterpretation + troper with an agenda
I'm bringing this up to address an issue of a character being troped based exclusively on Alternate Character Interpretation.
The problem character is Yui Ikari and the corresponding page is here. There have been dozens of edits dating back months
rewriting the character as a Well-Intentioned Extremist and a chessmaster. The issue is you have to subscribe hard to Alternate Character Interpretation and there's now a ton of contradiction in the character page claiming what's ambiguous and what's deliberate. In a nutshell, Yui's character is never given concrete motivations; everything she does is subject to ambiguity. But a lot of these edits are taking a hardline stance toward one specific interpretation of her character that contradicts the rest of the page.
I've seen the anime and most of the tropes that have been added are, at best, problematic, and others who have also watched the anime that I've discussed the matter with agree. Some samples:
- Abusive Parents: She deliberately fakes her death, traumatizing her son and making her husband grow emotionally distant from him, and subjects him to numerous traumas. Thing is, she did it all in an effort to protect his life.
- Cruel to Be Kind: No matter how one looks at her ambiguous moral compass, she is this at the very least, seeing how she did very deliberately inflict a serious emotional trauma on her son by faking her own death right in front of him, which decisively shaped his life and psyche in a very negative direction. However, she did so to enact her plan of allowing him and the rest of humanity to get the right to choose their own fate during Instrumentality, something SEELE would have denied all of them.
- More Deadly Than the Male: In The End of Evangelion, it is made clear that she was a much more shrewd and accomplished schemer than Gendo could ever hope to be, having managed to outmanouvre SEELE even though her physical presence in the world had been severely limited for more than a decade and she only had one unambiguous ally (Fuyutsuki) on her side.
- Soft-Spoken Sadist: She is not sadistic by any measure, but she is willfully cruel to the point of being on the borderline of an Anti-Hero and an Anti-Villain and has a profoundly soft, soothing voice.
- Well-Intentioned Extremist: Her goal is to counter SEELE and The Angels and protect Shinji's life. To do this, she'll emotionally torment both her husband and son by faking her death, make said son's friend die horribly in front of his eyes by refusing to save her and temporarily glass humanity to take down SEELE's potential for regaining power.
All of these tropes are contradicted or otherwise called into question elsewhere on the page in regards to the ambiguity that surrounds most of Yui's character.
Almost every edit seems to be the work of one user, Orangutans who TBH I think is troping with an agenda. I think the culmination was when said user brought up a post
in the Magnificent Bastard cleanup thread that relied, almost exclusively, on said Alternate Character Interpretation.
Other tropers have taken issue with this before, on the page itself; back in October another user wiped a bunch of edits that were equally ambiguous and invited Orangutans to use the Discussion page
, but the offer was never taken up. The other user subsequently added this
Ambiguous Situation trope in an attempt to mollify the situation, but that trope and others like it are still being contradicted by the problem edits Orangutans has left.
Can we take a deeper look at this?
Edited by ScraggleopenEdit on The Owl House: For the Future
So the Owl House episode For the Future had this trope
- Unintentionally Unsympathetic: With Boscha clearly not having moved on from their friendship, the episode makes it easy to look back at season 1 and see that Amity really did not handle the end of their friendship well. As far as the audience is told, Amity simply ended a friendship of many years with no prior warning, then embarrassed Boscha in public, which is a rather poor way to end a relationship, whether it's platonic or romantic. Of course, many fans feel that Boscha, given her actions afterward, deserves it (her touching Amity somewhat inappropriately lessens the sympathy), but it still reflects poorly on Amity.
Which was just edited out because of this reasoning
This, to me, does not address the actual point, which was that Amity by ditching Boscha suddenly without explanation and then talked shit about her in public handled the end of their friendship poorly. The trope is not arguing that Amity was unjustified in ending their friendship, but that she went about it a bad way which I absolutely believe she did.
I would also like to add that various tropers have a history of overly villifying Boscha, to the point of listing her as a Hate Sink and Even Evil Has Standards (instead of Everyone Has Standards)
Edited by AurelaiOfTheNorthresolved Someone is edit warring on UnintentionallyUnsympathetic/TheSimpsons
On the Unintentionally Unsympathetic page for The Simpsons, there is a header for the examples that belong to the members of the Simpsons family, that would read 'Pretty much every member of the Simpsons family (except Bart and Maggie) has come across as this at some point or another.'.
Two days ago, I noticed that the user Brian KT had removed the mention of Bart that excludes him from being counted as Unintentionally Unsympathetic, claiming that there must have been some episodes where Bart came off as such without even adding any examples of him being so.
I then added the mention of Bart back, pointing out that there aren't currently any examples of him being Unintentionally Unsympathetic listed on the page, hence why he's being excluded.
Earlier today, I discovered that Brian KT has once again removed the mention of Bart, still without adding any examples of him being Unintentionally Unsympathetic and has thus started an edit war. Since I can't change it back again, as that would also count as edit warring, I've decided to bring this here.
P.S. Just wondering, after this gets resolved, will I be able to add the mention of Bart back myself or would it still count as me edit warring?
Edited by CorvusIXopenEdit warring/possible agenda by troper in "YMMV/ShaggyAndScoobyGetAClue" Western Animation
Troper Aldrine Joseph 25 added a Vindicated by History example to Shaggy & Scooby-Doo Get A Clue!, which fell into the usual "new thing is bad, so this makes bad thing from before better" trapping, regarding Velma. I deleted it alongside a justifying edit in the Audience-Alienating Era entry, since I haven't seen many Scooby-Doo fans falling back onto this series when there's dozen of other far more beloved works in the franchise that people put over Velma, such as Zombie Island, Mystery Incorporated and What's New, Scooby-Doo?.
aldrinejoseph doubled down on adding back the justifying edit to Audience-Alienating Era, calling Velma a monstrosity. I know the series is bad, but that seems way too harsh and at this point the entries seems agenda-ish, since they keep mentioning Velma while saying nothing about the series itself.
Edited by Edgar81539open Alternate Self question
Hello. So recently Known Unknown started deleting examples of Alternate Self from the Batman (1966) character pages, with that show having been established as being an alternate universe in DC's live-action multiverse created by Crisis on Infinite Earths (2019). The trope had been used in character folders to have links to different versions of characters shown to canonically exist in the multiverse (for example, 66 Batman had a link to the Burton Batman page). Using the trope in this way has also been used with characters from the Marvel Cinematic Universe, Spider-Man Trilogy and The Amazing Spider-Man Series.
Known Unknown claims that the use of the trope was inaccurate since they don't fit the criteria of the trope, and that just because these pieces of media crossed over in Crisis that doesn't retroactively make this trope valid. They also said the trope should only be used for alternate versions of character that directly interacted with each other (so Smallville Superman interacting with Arrowverse Superman). They also claimed it shouldn't have been used for characters that didn't appear in the crossover at all, as it has been used for characters that have appeared in multiple pieces of media established to be canon with each other (for example, both Smallville and Arrowverse have used the same villains).
Given that the multiverse is clearly becoming a thing in live-action media and companies are retconning previous films/shows as part of the multiverse, I feel that it needs to be made clear whether Alternate Self is a trope that can be used in situations like this. If not, can another trope be used instead of Alternate Self. Personally I think Alternate Self makes sense in this context, but if I'm wrong I would like to know so I can undo the mistakes that I have made.
openRule of Cautious Editing Judgement wicks
I've been involved with the currently-quiet cleanup effort
surrounding Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment sinkholes, and thus far, I've been adhering primarily to the idea that the "And that's all we'll say about that" and "overwritten euphemism for Broken Base" varieties of ROCEJ wick should be removed on sight.
Looking at the remaining ROCEJ sinkholes, I'm wondering if those could do with removing as well, considering the impetus behind the cleanup effort and the distinction of what is meant by "rule" in this context. Some of the remarks with ROCEJ sinkholes reference the ROCEJ as if it meant "rule" in the sense of something that everyone has to make sure to follow, but the ROCEJ page itself and some of the discussion in the ATT post that led to the cleanup effort
refer to ROCEJ as a rule in the sense of something that happens naturally, therefore tropers shouldn't need to be reminded of the ROCEJ every time something contentious comes up.
Would I be clear to remove any remaining ROCEJ sinkholes with that latter idea of the term "rule" and the subsequent fact that tropers don't need reminders of the rule in mind? It won't be a unilateral removal regardless, since there are some wicks on the related page where the example specifically talks about the rule itself instead of reminding people to follow it, or indexes that ROCEJ happens to be categorised on.
Edited by Akriloth2160openold-ass self-aggregandizing, keep or cut?
yeah yeah There Is No Such Thing As Notability
ive stumbled across a few links ranting about undertale to some site called Froghand. all the examples spread through the site have been made by (surprise) a guy named froge. i dont know what policy is on people who sign up to promote their blogs/rants; if this guy had an audience i wouldnt mind
Edited by MsOranjeDiscoDanceropenNSFW warning for external links?
The Quest for Camelot “Nightmare Fuel” page (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/NightmareFuel/QuestForCamelot)
has an external link under the “Off-Model” entry, which is indicated to be a thumbnail of the character Ruber’s eye animation. However, the link returns a 403 error for me. I then noticed the URL itself is a 4chan link. While the image (assuming it links to what it purports to) would not be NSFW, are 4chan links permissible at all given the site has a lot of NSFW/violent/hateful etc content? If so, should they be labeled as NSFW regardless of whether the specific thing linked to is or not? Or would it be better for the link to be replaced with one to a site that’s less likely to contain NSFW content? I looked through ATT but didn’t see anything specific on this question. The Troper who created the link (Carliro) is banned; otherwise I’d have started with a direct ask to him.
Appreciate any clarification, and apologies if I formatted things incorrectly in this post. I am new.
resolved OK to move "Fanfic Recs.Final Fantsy VII" to "Fanfic Recs.Compilation of FF7"?
Would there be any objections if the FF7 fanfic recs was moved to "Fanfic Recs / Compilation Of Final Fantasy VII", with redirects from the other Compilation titles? It would make a lot more sense given that the fics encompass much of the Compilation, not just FF7 itself. I had asked
, but no response.
resolved Correctly Inputting A Work Webcomic
I'm adding an entry to https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/BecomingTheMask/FanWorks
and am reading how to edit, but I am still have trouble grasping the linking and spoiler codes. Also, do fan work comics go under Fan Works or Web Comics?
Here is the current text, spoilers ahead.
- In * the short comicBecoming The Facade
, by 'Rated-R-PonyStar, two changelings stealthily take out and assume the lives as two royal guards. One of the guards has a family, and the changeling develops a genuine attachment. Unfortunately, he successfully procreates with his "wife", and the other changeling slaughters the family before he can do anything to act on his newfound love. The [[Pun changed changing kills his companion. He is implied to have revealed himself in a [1] as he attends the funeral.]]
resolved Which name to use for this character Literature
In The Scum Villain's Self-Saving System: Ren Zha Fanpai Zijiu Xitong, the protagonist, originally named Shen Yuan, transmigrates into a character named Shen Qingqiu, and from then on is referred to as Shen Qingqiu, including in his own thoughts. So in the story, he's called Shen Qingqiu like 99% of the time. I've noticed that the article for The Scum Villain's Self-Saving System: Ren Zha Fanpai Zijiu Xitong uses both names, but Shen Yuan more often than Shen Qingqiu. I feel like it would be better to use Shen Qingqiu by default and only use Shen Yuan when referring to his past life as the novel does. Would it be okay for me to make these changes?
openSelf-demonstrating page overrides indentation rules?
SelfDemonstrating.Beavis And Butt Head has quite a bit of Natter. Apparently it's the two characters responding to each other. Do we let this be because it's a self-demonstrating page or do we axe the natter?

i'm trying to add Grand Theft Auto Online to the indexes Grand Theft Auto V appears on, and i've run into a snag trying to get it to appear indexed on The Seventh Generation Of Console Video Games
despite adding it to the list, the index does not appear on the page itself. i don't know if this has anything to do with the fact that the 7th gen console page has a pair of index tags around every IP listed on there, instead of across larger swathes of the page (for reasons i'm not going to begin to understand)
in any case, i'm pretty sure i put GTAO's page between index tags properly, but it's still not working. i'm not sure if i'm missing something incredibly obvious here or what.