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resolved Plan succeeds despite setback Film
Is there any trope where:
- Characters plan something
- The plan is disrupted one way or another, in a truly dramatic fashion
- Yet their original goal is still achieved, despite the fact the plan itself failed entirely
resolved Potential edit war Live Action TV
Troper Metal Max 1991 has been constantly re-adding Alternate Self to MCU: Benjamin Poindexter that connects it to the 2003 Daredevil movie even though those films haven’t ever crossed over or been connected so they’re not canon. Are they commiting an edit war?
Edited by MaxyGregoryyyyresolved The flexibility of the words "Network" and "Executive"
Now, I know that the word "Creator" can mean more than just "the person who came up with the idea" and can include others such as actors. Can something similar happen with the words "Network" and "Executive"? Because it looks like some example think so.
For example, Trivia.Infinity Train Seeker Of Crocus has the trope Adored by the Network listed even though it is a fanfiction. So in this case the word "Network" does not refer to a traditional broadcasting company, but to the writers of the work. Trivia.A Thing Of Vikings includes the trope Executive Meddling, although it is also a fanfiction, so it uses the word "Executive", not to refer to the people on the administrative side of the project, but to the reviewers of the work (I would like to add that the author apparently ignored their meddling). This last trope even has a page dedicated to Fan Works
This all seems like a stretch, since fanfiction is self-published, so the author has absolute power over the work. In any case, the closest thing to a "Network" and "Executives" would be the mods and the people who run Archive of Our Own, the website where these works are made public.
Edited by SoyValdo7openWeird additions.
So on YMMV.Arrow Nyame changed
this entry from this:
- Felicity gets a lot of hate in the later seasons from those who ship Oliver with anyone else. A lot of shippers want Felicity to be Killed Off for Real, writing fanfics where she dies unloved as Oliver moves on with Laurel or Sara. These shippers like to take any slightly selfish action that Felicity performs, even if it comes as a result of Oliver being selfish as well, and treat it like her turning pure evil. A lot of these fans write fanfics where Felicity is a supervillain who is only pretending to be nice and manipulating or brainwashing Oliver, who needs to be saved from by one of his far better love interests. These shippers also like to portray her as a Clingy Jealous Girl who attacks anyone who gets close to Oliver, despite this rarely actually happening on the show.
- Felicity gets a lot of hate in the later seasons from those who ship Oliver with anyone else. A lot of shippers want Felicity to be Killed Off for Real, writing fanfics where she dies unloved as Oliver moves on with Laurel or Sara. These shippers like to take any slightly selfish action that Felicity performs, even if it comes as a result of Oliver being selfish as well, and treat it like her turning pure evil. A lot of these fans write fanfics where Felicity is a supervillain who is only pretending to be nice and manipulating or brainwashing Oliver, who needs to be saved from by one of his far better love interests. These shippers also like to portray her as a Clingy Jealous Girl who attacks anyone who gets close to Oliver, despite this rarely actually happening on the show. On some level this is justified, as the later seasons are when Felicity's character Took a Level in Jerkass and became the biggest Base-Breaking Character in the fandom (to the point of becoming the most hated character in the entire franchise at one point), but the extent many fans go to rip her apart for her actions can be extreme.
Which is weird considering that: a) It is just adding more negativity. b) While her being a Base-Breaking Character could be relevant, I don't see how that makes it justified. c) YMMV can't be justified. This is not the first time they have add something like this noted here
and here
- Changed
an approved rewrite of the Fan-Preferred Couple entry for Oliver/Felicity from neutral to overly complainy.
- Kept adding negativity to example rewritten to be more neutral inculcluding
a Creator's Pet one.
- The make an entry
for LovingAShadow.Fan Works which is more about their Alternate Character Interpretation of the show's version of Felicity. Which was then removed
. Only to add a nearly identical one to LovingAShadow.Live Action TV here
- They add negativity about Felicity and the ship to an originally neutral
Launcher of a Thousand Ships entry to about Oliver.
They also recently they:
- Added
a Fan Nickname entry based on hatedom rather then fandom.
- Added
more additions
complaining about Felicity to an already very negative Alternative Character Interpretation entry.
Now to be fair a most of their other edits are fine from my look through their edit history. It just seems to be that this ship brings out their bias Something they have acknowledged as a possibility
. Either way I wanted opinions on if that should be kept in the Die for Our Ship entry or not more then anything else.
openQuestion about a removed entry
On Fridge.Event Horizon, this entry was removed:
- A dimension where none of our physics work, called "a dimension of pure chaos", would wreak havoc with our bodies—especially brain chemistry—at a quantum level. No wonder people would go batshit crazy—imagine having your entire body infused with drugs, made from your own chemistry and more.
It was filed under the "Fridge Horror" part of the page, and it was removed with this edit reason: "this isn't fridge horror, it's just speculating on the mechanics of a self-evidently horrifying concept."
Is this actually a valid entry for Fridge Horror?
Edited by TheNerfGuyresolved Old Removal from Lode Runner Videogame
Hi, I was looking through the YMMV section of Lode Runner and noticed that one of the older edits was the removal of a rather large section of content for Surrealism and Nothing is Scarier, with the only reason being that it was "Not YMMV," but it was never relocated anywhere else.
I read through the removed sections and determined it still seemed like an appropriate use of those tropes, however I would like input on whether or not it should go back to YMMV, or if those tropes belong in the main page of tropes? I'm still relatively new to this so any input on this would be a big help.
Edit: I made the changes myself after some light research on page editing. This can be disregarded.
Edited by MidnightRun99openItTakesTwo2021 (continued) misuse?
- Crosses the Line Twice: The infamous part where Cutie the Elephant is murdered by the main protagonists is intended to be over-the-top Black Comedy in the spirit of a Monty Python sketch. As the rest of this page shows, to most players, it crosses the line once and then stays there. YMMV cannot be played with so just not an example if so.
- Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Cutie's death scene was supposed to make Cody and May seem like selfish assholes, but given that Cutie is clearly an intelligent being who feels pain and was nothing but kind to them, the end result is that they come off less as merely self-centered jerks and more as sociopaths. 'Misuse as it was intentional
which it notes and UU only applies if for unintentional reasons. Note that the editor replaced there prior version
which seemed better as it gave different reasons they were unlikeable.
I've previously deleted the subverted part of Crosses the Line Twice as Natter and a Designated Hero entry similar to the UU, so taking here first, and since it might be an ongoing issue.
Edited by Ferot_DreadnaughtopenAvoiding an edit war
So on Trivia.Wednesday I deleted
this entry:
- Creator Backlash: Jenna Ortega has stated how she was strongly against the love triangle between Wednesday, Xavier, and Tyler, believing that's not what viewers would want to see Wednesday involved in.
I removed it after discussing it here
, because Creator Backlash is where they express dislike for the whole work and not just one aspect. Impaler added
this new entry for it
- Creator Backlash: In the “Armchair Expert” podcast, Jenna Ortega reveals she despized most of the writing about her character, like the dialogue and the love triangle.
Jenna Ortega: "I don’t think I’ve ever had to put my foot down more on a set in a way that I had to on ‘Wednesday'. Everything that Wednesday does, everything I had to play, did not make sense for her character at all. Her being in a love triangle? It made no sense. There was a line about a dress she has to wear for a school dance and she says, ‘Oh my god I love it. Ugh, I can’t believe I said that. I literally hate myself.’ I had to go, ‘No. There were times on that set where I even became almost unprofessional in a sense where I just started changing lines. The script supervisor thought I was going with something and then I had to sit down with the writers, and they’d be like, ‘Wait, what happened to the scene?’ And I’d have to go and explain why I couldn’t go do certain things.”
Again this is just one aspect (the writing) rather than the show as a whole like this trope is supposed to be and even then the quote doesn't scream despised. Plus I fail to see how the second bullet is backlash personally. Honestly this feels more like Wag the Director.
Can I get some more opinions on of this counts?
open Under what YMMV trope does this fall?
On the Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze YMMV page there is this:
- They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character: Lord Fredrik, the leader of the Snowmads, is a massive walrus. Not too bad until you immediately realize that walruses already serve as common enemies; with each boss beforehand being a unique animal (aside from Skowl), you'd expect Fredrik to be a unique being himself. Keeping in line with the winter wasteland theme of the game, he could easily have been a yeti, which would also serve as a good parallel to Donkey Kong himself. But nope, they just reused an animal enemy.
I think this is worth mentioning on the YMMV page but it doesn't fall under They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character since this trope is about characters being underused rather than unproperly designed.
Is there a YMMV trope for disappointing reveals or something like that?
openThe original heavy metal umlaut. Music
I've picked up an interesting project to do here involving filling in the gaps on a band's discography, (Blue Öyster Cult) writing Works pages for LP's which are at present redlinks or not there at all. Happy to do this.
But two questions for the tropers:
i) An LP title is properly spelt The Revölution By Night. I've set the works page up - but it's only in the form Revolution By Night, so it really needs the page name to be edited on both counts. I'm not sure how to do this - inserting an umlaut into a work page title is something that needs to be specifically requested? .
ii) Also, the band's first LP, which needs a works page, is self-titled. But this namespace is being used for all tropes to do with the band in general, as Blue Öyster Cult. Is there a workround in situations like this?
Thanks for help!
open No Title
On the Real Life subpage for Facing Death With Dignity we've got listings for a Gestapo agent, Italian Fascists (including Benito Mussolini himself) and even Nicolae Ceausescu. Should we be listing these people on the wiki in this fashion?
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/FaceDeathWithDignity/RealLife
openWhy is this entry commented-out?
I found this on Reconstruction.Video Games:
- Cassette Beasts seeks to revitalize the Mons genre by redesigning around all the problems that come with Fridge-Horroring these adorably fluffy creatures. Rather than capturing monsters, brainwashing them to love you the moment they're enslaved, and forcing them to fight one another for your reputation, you're using your supernatural recorders to copy the data of monsters and turn into them yourselves, typically for self-defense from said fairly-aggressive monsters. You're allowed to casually store, trade away, or even destroy your unneeded monster cassettes, because you're not actually enslaving living beings, but making mindless copies of their data to use as your weapons and armor. 'Trainers' have a far more active role, as their own strengths fuel the respective strengths of their monster forms, they need to put themselves directly in harm's way to 'catch' a monster, and they take damage if they've pushed their monsters' health past the breaking point. The humans' unique strength is that they can combine with other trainers to make stronger monsters. The wackiness needed to live in a magical monster-infested world is thoroughly addressed, as the entire human cast has no idea why they're stuck in another world or how any of this wackiness functions, only that they have to make the most of it and harness what they can experiment with. Most of the loot you acquire from fighting monsters is literally trash washed up from other worlds, the kind of stuff you'd expect curious animals to hold onto - but in a world that's cut off from industry, bartering for raw materials like these is a necessity.
I have no idea why it's commented out — it seems pretty context-full to me, and there isn't a note explaining why — but I don't want to unhide it without a second opinion in case this counts as edit-warring.
open Every lifeform in the universe is robotic.
Simply put, humans, animals, plants, and every other life is An organic robot. I'm not referring to reality itself, just to who inhabits it.
openEdit War on SuperMarioBros movie
Troper Doctor Sleep originally added the following Deconstructed Character Archetype for Bowser in The Super Mario Bros. Movie:
"Bowser's violent tendencies and delusion that Peach would be into him are deconstructions of video game protagonists like Mario. He gains rewards by destroying anyone and anything that's different to himself and looting their kingdoms for treasure all so he can impress a princess that he sees as little more than another trophy."
This was later deleted with the reasoning that Mario's archetype (in most games) is as a working class hero who rescues a princess—without expectation of a relationship in return—from a villain, which has nothing to do with Bowser being a bully and feeling entitled to Peach.
Doctor Sleep later readded
this entry under Corrupted Character Copy, with some wording alterations (notably still insisting that Bowser is a deconstruction of Mario.) Setting aside the fact that this is misuse because Bowser is not an expy of Mario, is this an edit war?
For the record I think to suggest Bowser in the movie is a "deconstruction of protagonists like Mario" at all is incorrect. Mario as a protagonist does not attack all things different from him, he defends peaceful creatures from harmful ones. He does not do all of this to impress Peach, he usually does it for the motivation that it is simply the right thing to do. And Bowser in the movie does not rove around looting other worlds (he loots just one, because it specifically had something he wanted, and then he heads straight to the mushroom kingdom for Peach.) He is not motivated to attack things because they are "different from him", he attacks things because he is an ill-tempered bully. His entitlement to Peach is not based on him seeing himself as a "hero" to impress her, it is based on wanting to conquer everyone as husband and wife. In the movie, as in the games, he is simply the bad role model to Mario's good one, not an evil version of Mario.
openWeblinks to facebook and image hosting websites Anime
Hi everyone,
While reading the Nightmare Fuel page of Kimetsu no Yaiba
, I encountered an entry in the "Red Light District Arc" (third bullet point, second sub-bullet) which contains two weblinks: one to a facebook page, and one to what I guess is an image hosting website (well, your guess is as good as mine regarding a website called "sportshub" being that kind of website). Both links are used to show screens of what the character looks like in the anime.
From Weblinks Are Not Examples, it seems it is frowned upon to use links like that. Moreover, the entry itself is written well enough to not necessitate those images. Thus I'm contacting tropers to ask if I should remove these links or leave them as is. I know there is a tolerance for some weblinks (namely when linking to songs - and even then, broken You Tube links happen quite often), but I'm not quite sure this qualify.
EDIT: There is another instance of this kind of link a little further actually, under the "Chapter 92-94/S 2 E 10:" bullet point of the same folder.
Edited by NonoRobotopen Without Sin: All Star Edition Western Animation
Hi there, I'm the author of the fanfic Loud House Story "Without Sin: All Star Edition". A fan made an entry here on the site... and it was brought to my attention the story was cut.
Now, be that as it may for the entry being cut, after reading the thread involved, I saw a gross mischarterization of my story and wanted to set the record straight.
For one, the story is not an endorsement of Incest, or child sexual action. There are no explicit sex scenes within the story. There are no 'lemons', no detailed scenes of characters engaged in the act of sex with one another.
For two, the story does not condone what has transpired between Lincoln in the "Sinverse" and his sisters. The quotes that were used in the thread were all from 'Sin Lincoln"'s perspective. He is biased, that's the point. He doesn't want to see what transpired between himself and his sisters as 'wrong'.
For three, the 'sins' of his family have resulted in one of his own children being a victim within the story of grooming.
What has happened to Lemy, with his aunt 'Lily' is not presented as good and wholesome, but quite the opposite.
The point of this story is to take a good hard look at the 'sinkids' fandom in the Loud House, and present the realistic circumstances that would have to take place for them to exist...with a Lincoln from another world who was not involved in an incestuous relationship with his sisters becoming involved and how he reacts to it.
The story is not an endorsement of incest, child sexualploitation or anything akin to that. It is a condemnation of those things... while still presenting the children that resulted from the actions as 'innocent' of their parents's collective sins.
While titlation does exist within the story, there are no sex scenes and there will be no sex scenes within the story. I can understand if you think the story still does not 'belong' on tvtropes but I wanted to set the record straight exactly on what the story is NOT.
It is not an erotic incest pedophiliac story meant for wank material.
It is instead an exploration of the fandom of the Loud House that often has an incest filtered Kink, but in a realistic manner with the consequences of those actions.
Thank you.
openWork example, fanwork quote
There's a number of Warhammer 40 K examples illustrated with a quote from If The Emperor Had A Text To Speech Device, a fanwork. Do they need to be removed or can they be left in since it's commenting on a canon occurence of a trope?
For instance, on Wretched Hive:
- The Dark Eldar are a race of Always Chaotic Evil Space Elves, and their capital Commorragh fit the trope. The city is ruled by warring kabals and the only semblance of government is the biggest kabal that's powerful enough to boss the others around. Getting killed by a total stranger in broad daylight (well, technically due to its location in the Webway there is no day and night cycle in Commorragh, only perpetual twilight) in the middle of a street is seen as a perfectly normal occurrence. [...]
The Emperor of Mankind: If there is one place you do not want to find yourself alone, it is that place. If the galaxy was a run-down town, Commorragh would be the local nightclub-turned-insane asylum.
- The Dark Eldar are a race of Always Chaotic Evil Space Elves, and their capital Commorragh fit the trope. The city is ruled by warring kabals and the only semblance of government is the biggest kabal that's powerful enough to boss the others around. Getting killed by a total stranger in broad daylight (well, technically due to its location in the Webway there is no day and night cycle in Commorragh, only perpetual twilight) in the middle of a street is seen as a perfectly normal occurrence. [...]
resolved "Acceptable" H-games Videogame
Seeing that some H-games do get a page and some don't, I got a bit confused about how content rules actually work regarding those; just how H-games actually do get their pages and it gets decided "okay, those may stay"? Is there a pre-moderation for those? Or it's "take the risk now, get executed by a firing squad later if we don't like it"? And what are the signs that there's a point to even bother, that it may pass?
I have one in mind (it's Overgrown: Genesis), as I genuinely like it (for its story and characters; was genuinely surprised myself at first, I originally only looked for something short which I can translate for practice), but want to make sure before even bothering with drafting, as it's better to throw out an idea than hours or days of writing. I wouldn't put it in sandbox until later anyway, but want to know in advance.
It's set After the End (Zombie Apocalypse, similar to one in Last of Us; albeit backstory is closer to the series rather than the games, despite predating it), and has rather bleak atmosphere; it starts as a story of survivor who was backstabbed and left for dead on the first field operation, but gradually becomes a battle for survival of humanity. Gameplay-wise, it's Survival Horror. It seems that almost entire H-content is avoidable; few scenes happens regardless of the player's actions, but it should be entirely possible to just write without mentioning them.

Someone needs to step in on the comments section of a review thread.
A little over six years ago, one troper (Valiona) wrote a negative review
of a fanfic by another troper (deltanine) who rewrote a chapter of Fairy Tail so that Erza Scarlet enacts Cold-Blooded Torture on her tormentor, Kyouya, far beyond anything that was done to her (and far more violent than is typical of Fairy Tail as a whole, but the author has continuously defended the events of their story as justified and insists that it isn't a Troll Fic). In 2021, delta bumped the review to complain about the P5 decision to zap the work page advertising it (instead of appealing to the mods after their ATT complaint was rejected
after being told that they don't have the final say in what goes on the page and what doesn't). As recently as two days ago, delta bumped the review a second time to complain about the deletion again, and the conversation since has steered off-topic from discussing the merits/demerits of the fic to other users complaining about delta's necro-posting.
P.S. I wanted to use the ATT function instead of the "Flag This" link in the review since that indicates there's some problem with the quality of the review itself (I don't think there is).
Edited by MacronNotes