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resolved Dethroning Moment About Rae Mills
From DethroningMoment.Web Original:
- JEFFWONTLEAVE: I personally think that commentary videos get a bad rep nowadays. They have drastically improved from what they were back in 2011 with much more insight and humor. One prime example of this is Rae Mills, considered by many to be the best one out there. Which makes her DMOS, Response to Mr Enter
even more painful. The video itself could have been better if it was worked into a main commentary on her channel or People who did the B.O.P commentary on Mr.Enter's troll video did the response, but instead it's just a lazy response that come's across as filler for a Massive Multiplayer Crossover channel. But the main issue I had with this video that turned it From Bad to Worse was the last 3 minutes where she tries to come across as The Last DJ who is trying to help save the poor misinformed fans of this horrible person who made a video she hated on youtube instead turned the entire response to a very mean-spirited, arrogant and completely uncalled for rant about Mr.enter. For someone who is well known for being very well reasonable and yet still blunt and to the point, this seemed completely out of character for her and added nothing of value to the commentary. As a person who hated that troll video as much as, if not more so then her, I was completely furious with this video and was considering just giving up on the commentary community all over again, but I decided to give her one more shot and she did win me back. But I'm still not forgiving her for that train wreck any time soon.
For those unaware, Rae has been the subject of quite the bit of controversy since this entry was written (I'd rather not get into it myself). For that reason, I'm wondering what, if anything, should be done with this entry, or if nothing about it should be done. What do you guys think?
Edited by JHD0919openAm I allowed to move other Tropers' DethroningMoment entries for sorting/wick migration?
I recently moved GradeAUnderA from WebVideo/ to WebAnimation/
He has his own entry in DethroningMoment.Web Original
- Izzy 1: To be honest, GradeAUnderA's video "THE YOUTUBERS COMPLAINING ABOUT DRAMA RANT (Exposing Matthew Santoro)" rubbed me the wrong way, specifically the part where he insulted Markiplier. Now, before you make assumptions, I don't follow Markiplier or watch his stuff, but the fact that Grade was insulting him based on his appearance (having dyed red hair) and for calling himself "Markimoo" (which I heard is something his fans call him) rather than what he actually had to say was disappointing. And when he addressed this in his followup video saying that nobody is immune to criticism, I had 2 problems with that: 1. He was completely missing the point of why people were mad at him, for the most part, thinking that people were mad because Markiplier dyed his hair, initially pink for charity and later red out of respect for a dead friend, and saying he shouldn't be immune to criticism as a result, especially since Mark apparently caused more drama with his video. While I'm not sure if that's true, I think I can say that a lot of people, myself included, were more miffed about the way you attacked him for petty reasons, rather than that. 2. He makes a huge point about saying that everyone should be open to criticism, yet on Reddit, he tried to delete a thread criticizing him for getting "annoyed" by it
. Honestly, I was starting to like this guy's content, but these events turned me off from his videos.
- shonengirl: Hoo boy, his Pokémon video... It's hard to point out one moment in particular, but it's basically a series of "jokes" (I think) that have already been beaten up to death, revived, HM 01'd into tiny pieces, beat up again, horn drilled, and incinerated. And I seriously couldn't tell if it was all supposed to be a bunch of jokes or not due to many of the "jokes" (mainly "hurdy durr Pokeymanz is animal abuse!") being things said with complete seriousness before, and it comes off a lot like some cringy "scrub" ranting about something he knows nothing about, or at least has never played since gen I. The blatant Critical Research Failure all over the place was just painful to sit through, so much so I had to skip through tiny segments of it. This was especially jarring since he pulled up the gen I manual, something only hardcore fans usually do, and actually knew that Red is 11... But yet calls Red "Ash", something that no Pokemon fan over 12 would ever do, and he should be relieved that he wasn't swarmed by rabid Red fans by some miracle. If those were jokes, they weren't funny. It doesn't help that the description made me put my hopes up. The only things that were good or new were the bit about him actually getting Red and Blue's ages right, and the mocking of the deviation of game text from what's said in the manual. Everything else is just so cliche and overdone, and I expect more from him. Not to mention it feels like he's trying to jump on the hype train of second wave Pokemania because he can, and free cash.
Is it fine to move it to DethroningMoment.Web Animation without those tropers' permission?
Edited by AudioSpeaks2resolved question on "Up For Grabs" TLP
If a draft is Up For Grabs, and you want to contribute an example without adopting the draft, should you still respect not editing the draft directly yourself to add the example to it? Is the expectation the person who eventually adopts the draft will go through all the past comments to update the draft?
basically, does editing courtesy change at all if a draft is "Up For Grabs"?
Edited by IronAnimationopenWhy is the Adult Hater trope under the Jerk index?
I mean I noticed that most Adult Hater characters listed under that trope hate adults for sympathetic reasons. I mean sometimes Adults Are Useless and fail to protect children from harm.
As an adult myself, I noticed that a lot of adults aren’t even good people (& I find other adults insufferable and toxic) so IDK why that trope is under the Jerk Index.
EDIT: I only came on here because I didn’t want to remove the trope from the index without a discussion.
Edited by MsCC22resolved Linking a fanfic that has its own page on fanfic recs
I was browsing FanficRecs.The Legend Of Heroes Trails Of Cold Steel’s history where user Alciel 9 linked the page to one recs (Fanfic.Isekaid To A Jrpg As A Harem Member) which has its own page here. This got me wondering; if one the fanfic manage to get its own page, do we link the page or the work itself?
openConsent to re-add a little removed text excerpt under a different wick. Videogame
Before the dewicking of Kill Em All as a trope, the Foil entry on Biker's folder in Characters.Hotline Miami looked like this:
- Foil: To Jacket. Both of them are masked killers with psychotic tendencies, but whereas Jacket invokes Kill Em All and is motivated by revenge, Biker kills only because he finds it fun, yet can spare a whole lot of people. Furthermore, Biker openly talks and is rather forward, while Jacket is silent. Most importantly, however, Biker found out the truth about the phone calls and pulled a Screw This, I'm Out of Here! upon getting his answer, while Jacket falsely concluded that the calls came from the Russian Mafyia and slaughters its leadership instead, further advancing 50 Blessings' goals. Jacket then lets himself get caught by the police without ever learning the truth, dying in custody thanks to a nuking brought by an organization whose goals he advanced. By contrast, Biker may have survived the nuking while hiding in the desert, as he knew the implications of the truth.
After the dewicking, on the beginning of January 2023, Robert TYL removed the bolded part, making it look like this (note that this also includes a grammar correction done by another troper months later):
- Foil: To Jacket. Both of them are masked killers with psychotic tendencies, but whereas Jacket is motivated by revenge, Biker kills only because he finds it fun, yet can spare a whole lot of people. Furthermore, Biker openly talks and is rather forward, while Jacket is silent. Most importantly, however, Biker found out the truth about the phone calls and pulled a Screw This, I'm Out of Here! upon getting his answer, while Jacket falsely concluded that the calls came from the Russian Mafyia and slaughters its leadership instead, further advancing 50 Blessings' goals. Jacket then lets himself get caught by the police without ever learning the truth, dying in custody thanks to a nuking brought about by an organization whose goals he advanced. By contrast, Biker may have survived the nuking while hiding in the desert, as he knew the implications of the truth.
The removal of the bolded part makes Biker's point of "can spare a whole lot of people" come out of nowhere an unrelated. As such, I'd like to restore the bolded part with Leave No Survivors, since it's still a trope and fits Jacket's description better than the original Kill Em All.
- Foil: To Jacket. Both of them are masked killers with psychotic tendencies, but whereas Jacket invokes Leave No Survivors and is motivated by revenge, Biker kills only because he finds it fun, yet can spare a whole lot of people. Furthermore, Biker openly talks and is rather forward, while Jacket is silent. Most importantly, however, Biker found out the truth about the phone calls and pulled a Screw This, I'm Out of Here! upon getting his answer, while Jacket falsely concluded that the calls came from the Russian Mafia and slaughters its leadership instead, further advancing 50 Blessings' goals. Jacket then lets himself get caught by the police without ever learning the truth, dying in custody thanks to a nuking brought about by an organization whose goals he advanced. By contrast, Biker may have survived the nuking while hiding in the desert, as he knew the implications of the truth.
Can I go ahead with this change, or does anyone have any objections?
Edited by Inky100resolved Invisible Ask
I marked an ask here as Private and I myself can’t see it. Is that normal or did something go wrong and I have to resubmit that ask?
openPermission to revert entry on Manga/AirGear. Anime
On Nov. 4th, 2018, I corrected
the Official Couple entry for Air Gear due to being inaccurate to the epilogue chapter.
- Original Version:
- Corrected Version:
- Erivale's version:
- Erivale: I just read through the whole series again, and it's pretty clear that Ikki's date with Simca is two riders who respect each other meeting up for a run and the fulfilment of an old promise, as compared to the overt romantic overtones involved in Ikki's resolution with Ringo. Even during the epilogue itself, Ringo is treated as the woman in Ikki's life, not just a prospective for his affections.
With this in mind, I request permission to revert the edit without risk of inciting an Edit War.
openHow do you address a nameless main character in a work?
For works where the main character doesn't have a name, how do we address them?
I'm writing up a work where the main character goes without a name at first, but only remembers theirs later through a spoiler. The name itself is technically not a spoiler, but might be confusing, since the character is not addressed by name for large portion of the early part of the work.
resolved Which book of Dragaera is an ontological mystery?
It was in the "ontological mystery" trope. Here's what it says:
Issola: A couple of people our protagonist considered completely indestructible have gone missing. Not even Sethra Lavode, who very much deserves her Shrouded in Myth status, can find them by herself. She knows how to get Vlad there, and he arrives to find his two friends stuck in unbreakable, seamless chains in an empty room with no exits that appears to be on another planet. The plot hinges on figuring out how the hell the bad guys managed it, and why.
openVideo Secondary Tropes
Whenever I've tried adding secondary tropes to some of my videos recently, it tends to not let me do so. For example, if I try to search up Sword Beam as a secondary trope, I get nothing to select/add and when I try to search Half the Man He Used to Be, I only get media subsections (i.e. TV, anime, etc.), but not the main page itself. Has this been an issue for anyone else, or is there a website rule about this that I'm not aware of?
openUU misuse added back/quote issue.
This misuse of Unintentionally Unsympathetic was added back.
- History of Power Rangers: While also providing the page quote, Linkara also has an inverse view of mutantkind and Time Force compared with some of the fandom he was given. He thought that despite Ransik's sympathetic origin, his consistant evil and ingratitude justifies everyone's fears about him. And conversely, there isn't enough provided material in the show to fully have sympathetic mutants, as only 1 mutant ever had more sympathetic reasons for being in the cryo-prison, and there were even 2 examples of mutants who were given more privileges, and they betrayed society's trust.
This is critiquing the fandom treatment of the character (violating UU being No Real Life, better fitting Misaimed Fandom), not how the narrative treats them (Ransik's called out that his sympathetic past didn't excuse his evildoing, which he himself ultimately realized and allowed himself to be arrested to answer to his wrongs, so he's not unintentional). This entry also argues against UU applying to mutantkind saying this isn't the widespread opinion by fans.
When I first removed this, I asked about changing the page quote ("There's a difference between having a sympathetic backstory and actually being sympathetic.") as it's misuse, but they said to keep as it still conveyed the concept. Not it appears it's continuing to attract misuse, so what to do?
resolved Odd grammatical perhaps-corrections Videogame
Mr Derpy Kid 2 changed "themselves" into "themself" on Characters.Armored Core VI Main Characters and Characters.Armored Core VI Corporations. I've never seen it used this way before, and all my googling showed was "some people might be using it, IDK spidey lol".
Do I correct this (and send a notifier)? Is this even the sort of change that needs correcting?
open Where did the 'Leather pants' come from in 'Draco's leather Pants'?
I understand the meaning of the trope itself. I'm just curious about how it got it's name.
How exactly does re-writing a villain to make them more sympathetic translate to them wearing leather pants?
openWorks page made for a single video questions Web Original
I noticed someone made a trope page for AI Pajama Sam, which is based off of a youtuber (DougDoug) playing Pajama Sam in "No Need to Hide When It's Dark Outside" using an AI voice program. I'm unsure why it exists or if it needs to, but I wanted to mention it since it feels odd it was made.
The video it was made for was a decently length one, but it is so far the only one Doug has made, and stuff it mentions can be done on his own Web Video page. Is this something that really should be done? The page itself is somewhat barebones and even has a character page now, but it feels unnecessary to make a page for a single video like that. I think it should be deleted for now, but wanted to get feedback on this.
Edited by keyblade333resolved Stub report
Webcomic.Cindy Lee doesn't have a single trope and also lacks a link to the work since it is supposed to be a webcomic. Despite this, it has a character subpage (Characters.Cindy Lee).
Checking both pages' history shows that they were created by a troper named Sochimbuchi, who has only edited these two pages
and nothing else since January of this year. It turns out that Sochimbuchi is the author of this webcomic (mentioned here
), which seems to have opted to delete all tropes and the link to the work
at the end of last year. The webcomic itself also seems to have been deleted from webtoons for unknown reasons (the link
that was originally added no longer works and doesn't appear on the author's webtoons profile page; it hasn't been saved to the wayback machine either).
Can I delete this page?
Edited by SoyValdo7openHandling Fanfic Recs Who Break The "No Self-Recommendations"-rule Web Original
I was told to come here for this question, so I hope it's not a dumb one:
How is the breaking of the "No Self-Recommendations" rule handled in Fanfic Recommendations? Like, if somebody posts a fanfic rec of their own fic, is the entry in question just cut with a provided reason for the entry being cut, or does the user in question also get a warning?
I figure that it's probably just the former, or maybe even cut without having to provide a reason(?) because a self-recommend isn't a big deal in comparison to active policy violations, but I figure that it's better to ask anyway. I just want to know if I can just go ahead and cut such an entry or if there's more of a procedure to it.
Edited by MagmaTeaMerryopenSpoilers off Videogame
A while ago I made a page for a short horror videogame called candypink. I would like to make it a spoilers-off page and remove all the spoiler tags, since the game itself is so short it can be finished in two minutes. Is this allowed?
openIs Majora's Mask Low Fantasy Videogame
So Majora’s Mask is listed as Low Fantasy, but as a huge Majora’s Mask fan myself, I really think it doesn’t in any way fis Low Fantasy. I’m sure it was deleted in the past, but it looks like it was added back.
The entry claims Magic is less present than other Zelda games and that the plot of Majora's mask is more grounded with realistic things.
To list how magic is ‘’extremely’’ prominent as well as how the plot and the setting are not realistic.
- Far from using basic magic, Link can:
- Time Travel
- Slow down time as well as fast forward through time.
- Shapeshift into other people via healing their ghosts. One of these transformations (Fierce Deity), is even a creature, created by the memories of all the people of the land that Link befriended.
- Teleport
- Create decoys of himself.
- Summon a living Scarecrow.
- See and talk to ghosts, sometimes turning them into magical masks.
- Transform into a 50 foot tall giant.
- Turn his arrows into beams of Fire, Ice and Light.
- There’s many Fantastic monsters and creatures even by the standards of the Zelda series, whom are all treated as normal by regular citizens, including:
- Plant people that shoot bubbles or nuts and can fly with magical flowers.
- Rock people that can roll into balls and move at superhuman speeds.
- Fish people that run a rockband using sea animals as instruments.
- Fairies that are common knowledge and the citizens of town regularly visit.
- An entire valley and city composed of undead like Ghosts, Mummies, Skeletons and Zombies.
- Snowlems just outside town.
- Alien ghosts!
- Locations are extremely weird like a dungeon that you repeatedly have to change gravity in.
- Time Travel and shapeshifting via magical masks are central elements in general.
- The Big Bad is a demonic Evil Mask possessing an Undead Child and commanding a gigantic army of very strange monsters. He was also friends with the Giants that literally created the world he lives in.
- There’s a living scarecrow just walking around town that is treated as normal.
- Many ordinary citizens possess Masks of Power, they even explain to you bestow magical abilities upon their wearer.
- Gonk-ish witches are regular merchants.
- Other fantastic things include Talking Animals as well as Funny Animals, including a possibly Cybernetic beaver
- The Magic effects of the milk from the milkbar is well known and even a point of advertisement.
And I can’t find it at this moment, but in an interview, with one of the game’s writers, possibly Aonuma, he stated he added in whimsical and dream like elements into the game to offset another writer when he added scary stuff.
Make no mistake, I love Majora’s Mask, but it doesn’t seem to fit the trope at all.
Even in the Zelda series, I feel The Legend Of Zelda 1 is more Low Fantasy, though I don’t think it fits the trope either.
Edited by Monsund

Felt like I have to ask this question hoping for those who are way more familiar with how this wiki works to give their thoughts as well. Wall of text warning though, as this does not involve only one video game. But a TL;DR is that some Gacha Games on this wiki have long character descriptions because they're also including gameplay information and other fluff, while there's a debate on whether one game should copy another similar game's way of handling descriptions. Who knows if the descriptions run the risk of going into Walkthrough Mode? Just how much "fluff" can really be added there?
For those who are not familiar with the above two games, the older and longer way of writing descriptions can still be seen on Characters.Genshin Impact Fischl, divided into paragraphs or parts:
Note that the character descriptions for Star Rail used to have simple descriptions, yet there are tropers who massively expanded them to focus on their gameplay. The discussion on the descriptions started a month ago
... Several tropers (including myself) have already weighed in our thoughts on why trimming was necessary, though the discussion was mostly between tropers zero5889 and Ner0014re N, with the latter being the one who mostly did the trimming after getting plenty of responses from those who agree.
Personally, I agreed trimming specifically the "fluff" part of the third paragraph
, stating fluff doesn't really make sense depending on the character... as if other tropers were trying to link gameplay upgrades/passives and lore when they can be misinterpreted in another way, or are not exactly Gameplay and Story Integration at all. Welt's old character description in Characters.Honkai Star Rail Astral Express used to have such kind of fluff that don't really make sense if you're into the lore of the character.
The newer and shorter way of writing descriptions can now be seen on Characters.Honkai Star Rail Astral Express. Generally, there's no longer a paragraph talking about "character progression systems".
For what it's worth though, games like Arknights and Honkai Impact 3rd were written with concise/very simple character descriptions for years now (and tropers who are/were very active on maintaining them kept it that way), and yet troper zero5889 insisted that Honkai Impact 3rd needs some structuring on character pages, and suggested
that "detailed descriptions" for gachas like Arknights are long overdue.
But should it be the case? Are detailed character descriptions for Gacha Games really necessary?
If it would seem like troper zero5889 is planning to restructure character pages or rewrite descriptions on Gacha Games, they did confirm
they are going to give the character pages of Honkai Impact 3rd a look in the future. zero5889 also went to the Arknights forum
to suggest a rearranging of Arknights character pages to group them by "subclass" instead of general class, but several tropers objected and say it would just be overcomplicating things.
Recently on the Discussion tab
for Star Rail, there's another troper who disagreed on the trimming effort of some ability descriptions in Star Rail (particularly the removal of the "character progression systems" paragraph), like a week or so after the actual trimming edits were being done... suggesting the character descriptions of Genshin and Star Rail should still have a similar way of writing.
The trimming effort went through because many tropers agreed with it (like a majority vote, or so), but there are still those few who disagree (likely unware that a month-long discussion already happened).
Edited by DanteVin