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resolved Edit warring on the Voltes V Legacy YMMV page
I removed the Germans Love David Hasselhoff entry over there because apart from being messy and over cluttered like whoever put it there was trying way too hard to prove a point, I looked at the lists and it showed nothing but positive first impressions and the tropers who put it there making assumptions based on those. It's particularly egregious how they even listed individual comments/notes from random individuals and fansubs. I mean, fansubs can simply mean a show has a very small cult following or even just curious individuals who dubbed something for the heck of it. It doesn't prove anything, as far as I'm aware. Even more egregious is the fact that Voltes V Legacy is only seeing what appears to be a dub in Spanish speaking countries, and when I looked at it, it's not even an officially sanctioned dub, just the passion project of a certain few individuals who were fans of the original Voltes V anime and not necessarily the live-action show itself. There's no real evidence that the show became an audience favorite based on those lists.
I'm bringing the issue here because someone who contributed to that entry's list of info decided to readd the deleted entry
after I removed it. I'll concede if the list is enough proof to list as GLDH, but I still would like to hear others' takes on what really counts as proof of a GLDH situation.
resolved Stock Foreign Name needs to be split into sub pages.
Stock Foreign Name is becoming a very long page and I had plan to add more context to some examples, which will only make it longer.
I don't know if I can take this decision by myself. So that's why I'm asking.
resolved Quick question
This may sound silly, but when dewicking, should the item moved from Useful Notes page to Media Notes page?
My common sense say yes, but seeing there're 30+ entries of Media Notes namespace on Useful Notes, as well as Main/ like Theatre, it's occurred to me that the namespace itself might be irrelevant.
resolved Edit War on Characters/UndeadUnluckGodAndTheSuperiorRules Anime
- March 17th, 2024
, Troper UnCorrectManiac changed the images for the characters "Soul", "Death", "Change", and "Language" on the Undead Unluck: God and The Superior Rules page without opening an Image Pickin thread.
- March 18th, 2024
, Troper Rebel Falcon (Myself) reverted entries.
- Edit Reason: Image changes need to be approved via an Image Pickin thread.
- March 18th, 2024
, Troper UnCorrectManiac instigated Edit War by undoing reversion, as well as changed the image for character "Luck" without opening an Image Pickin thread.
- Edit Reason: If you believe the new images do not fit the page than feel free to make an Image Pickin' thread to argue your case, but at the moment it seems silly to revert them back without doing so. Every other image on this page was added with the Image Pickin Thread being needed before hand, I don't see why these should be any different unless your actually willing to explain why in a thread. If there is already a thread for UU I'd love to take part in it, but I could not find it myself.
openOverspeculating the Pesticide in Apaches?
I've noticed in the pages for Apaches, the edits there are insistent that the pesticide Sharon drank was a weed killer containing Paraquat. This is never specified in the film itself, and yet tropers like Goji Biscuits are insistent in adding that it "likely contained paraquat" if the recent edits are anything to go by, and the section in the Nightmare Fuel page go into detail on how paraquat kills, even though again, it was never specified to have such.
Is this just a me problem or does this require fixing?
Edited by RedBerryBlueCherryresolved Promotion to franchise page
What process must be followed if one wishes for a work page covering a series to be "promoted" to a franchise page? Such as if the series has already gathered a lot of installments, and it may start getting unwieldy for a single page to list a lot of tropes that only apply to specific installments rather than the series overall; or if the series extends to more than one medium. (Obviously, individual work pages would have to be made for each installment as well, but that's the easy part, even if it is time consuming).
In my case, I believe Len'en is at the point where it needs to become a franchise page, with each installment getting to have its own work page. The reasons will be laid out across the upcoming paragraphs.
There are already five games (and a sixth is in development), and the fourth game in particular, Len'en Ten'eisenki ~ Brilliant Pagoda or Haze Castle, due to its very different gameplay from previous installments and its sheer amount of content, will eventually gather too many tropes that apply only to itself and no other games in the series, which can get unwieldy when everything is listed on a series-wide page.
Furthermore, the latest game, Len'en Cafe ~ Book of the Cafe already has its own work page, which is indeed very useful since it's an entirely different genre from the other games and thus will have several tropes absent from the rest of the series.
Lastly, the series isn't even just video games; there is a music video titled Critical Point Bidding Its Last Farewell and a music album titled A World Outside Fantasy ~Len'en Mugenri~. (Albeit neither has been mentioned on the Len'en page in this wiki yet; I thought of adding them myself but am holding off on editing the page any further to focus on settling my concerns here).
Several weeks back, I made a discussion post on the work page summarizing my concerns in one paragraph to see if anyone agrees with my assessment, but it has been ignored due to low activity on the page.
(Oh, and while we're at it, the page should use the full title of the series, Len'en Project, just like how the page for Touhou was changed to Touhou Project for the same reason).
So, is there a specific forum or thread or other kind of place where I should take these concerns so whether it can be done is discussed and decided, or anything else I'm supposed to do to formally propose/enact the change?
Edited by yokaipinataopenCan This Really Be Considered Narm, Or Is It Misuse?
I was looking through the pages for the fan fic The Sun Will Come Up, and the Seasons Will Change and I noticed that in the YMMV page, a user put in this entry:
- Narm: Nora is revealed to be a neo-Nazi in her debut when she walks across the snow, and the cut of her shoes leave swastikas in her footprints. It's meant to be a shocking moment, but the image of a hate symbol being molded into the bottom of someone's shoes with the purpose of actually leaving footprints in that shape comes off as so sudden and over-the-top it rolls into hilarity.
I know this kind of stuff is subjective for each troper, but reading over it...I don't know, something about it feels really off to me. I might be biased here as I'm a huge fan of the fan fic in question, but reading the scene in its actual context, I couldn't find anything in the fic itself or its writing that made the scene in question come off as unintentionally hilarious or over-the-top like the troper who made the edit claims. Plus, as weird as this sounds, I found out through watching a documentary that there actually are such things as companies that make the exact kind of boots with little swastikas molded onto the soles, so it's not something that was just pulled out of their imagination. Something about the wording feels really off to me too, but I'm admittedly not an expert on these matters, so for all I know I'm probably reading too deep into it. What do you guys think? Is this a misuage of Narm, or is it actually following the trope page's rules?
Edited by TwilightPegasusopenOverly negative editor?
On March 3rd, {{Tropers/2HeadedMoonOctopus}} added an entry for the game Jujutsu Kaisen: Cursed Clash to Video Game Generations: Seventh Onwards, and since then, particularly earlier today, has been serial tweaking the entry to add more and more negativity to it. Given the Horrible namespace, this by itself isn't overly unusual, but I recognized the name, because in December, the same user made a handful of edits to VideoGame.Star Wars Jar Jars Journey Adventure Book which were also negative in nature, including creating a YMMV page that is almost nothing but negativity.
This could just be me overreacting, but if this is a pattern, it might be worth addressing before it goes any further. From a cursory glance at their recent edit history, they seem to have spread some negativity regarding Cursed Clash to some other JJK related pages, and I also found a handful of negative edits to other controversial works like YMMV.Lady Ballers and YMMV.Willys Chocolate Experience.
Edited by JankyKongopen TLP Editor editing other's drafts past basic tweaks
Aqua Eclipse has been editing other people's TLP proposals without regularly saying or stating what they are doing, and in some cases has made major changes to the proposal, when they are not the creator.
- here
on Gratuitous Chinese
- here
on Fighting Your Future Self
- here
on my own, Rough Overalls (it was formatting, but I'd have appreciated some notation in the replies)
- here
on Kiddy Coveralls, another I'm working on, though they stated what they did
- ETA: here
on Homeowners' Autocracy, where they added an example directly instead of putting it in the comments and said so
.
They were asked by War Jay 77 to stop editing in this fashion
. Twice.
At this point a reminder needs to be sent to abide by the TLP Guidelines of not editing other people's drafts without asking or explaining themselves—and even if it's a small typo or formatting, to still say something. TLP isn't the general wiki at large and the proposals aren't up for open edits until they're launched.
Edited by NethiliaopenHelp with finding a trope that mentions djinns
I was planning to ask this in Trope Finder but the wording in it gave me the impression it's just to ask if a trope already exists, so sorry if I'm asking this in the wrong place.
So there's a trope where one of its examples is explaining how a djinn grants wishes in the original stories, and the explanations is if you ask for a property (Maybe a kingdom), he won't create one from scratch and will just buy the property or at least the paperwork for it.
The trope itself isn't about djinns in particular, I think it was just explaining the difference between people's belief and what actually happened, but I'm not sure if that is what the trope was about since seemingly it's not included in Common Knowledge.
I'm pretty sure the example uses the word "mundane" to describe the djinn's simple solution to getting the property.
open What constitutes an Ass Pull? Western Animation
Essentially, I was thinking of adding the trope in Hazbin Hotel in regards to the whole 'angels can only be hurt by angelic steel'.
Not in the concept itself but the fact that no demon in the 1000 years the exterminations happened had never figured it out, that no demons ever thought to try this.
And the fact that Vaggie would not know this, despite having being maimed by angelic steel.
Would this constitute an Ass Pull or is there another trope that would fit this?
resolved "Stealing" someone else's edit?
I know this wiki isn't actually about credit for providing examples, context and such but is it actually possible to "steal" and edit of a page, i.e. delete the entry and then add it yourself in a way it doesn't show in page history?
I don't remember every single thing I wrote here but still have a disturbing suspicion that I was the one who wrote this entry
.
resolved Ban evader
Hello. Recently I have made a discussion on The Jungle Book page (and left an edit reason mentioning it without making any edits).
Currently only one user named Donner has responded to my discussion so far. While there was nothing suspicious about his response, I noticed Donner’s account was just created in March 2024.
While there is nothing wrong with a new user discussing things, and they haven’t actually done anything, I have made some recent discoveries about a recently deleted user named Thorion.
In the past I made an Ask The Tropers post trying to find out if Thorion and dkadugo were the same person, and geolocation proved it false.
However while they are not the same person, I have reason to believe that Thorion DID have another account on here under the username Jet 556. If that name sounds familiar, Jet 556 was a user who was suspended back in 2015(and I don’t think they were ever released from suspension, as their last edits were on July 30, 2015, though I could be wrong).
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/el.php?findfor=jet556&page=1
While Thorion’s account age was listed simply as “4 score and 7 years ago”, according to their edit history, their first edits were on July 31, 2015, while Jet 556 was suspended. And his first edits were on the same page that Jet 556 made his last edits on.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/el.php?findfor=Thorion&page=67
It actually goes beyond similar edits and interests though.
Thorion had made several TV Tropes pages, as well as a fanfic rec, of fanfics written by a writer named, you guessed it, Jet 556!
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Fanfic.TheEvabonSaga&page=1
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Fanfic.EnterKenFinlayson&page=1
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/FanficRecs/Detentionaire
Thorion was openly promoting the work of someone with the same username as a suspended user here!
It seems like there was at least some sort of connection between Thorion and Jet 556.
Again, there is a chance I could be wrong(as I have been in the past). Maybe they were relatives or close friends. Maybe Thorion was just a big Jet 556 fan. Thorion would act like Jet was a different person whole talking about him and reviewing Jet’s work(though considering that Jet 556 was suspended, it’s obvious why Thorion would try to pass himself off as a different person). Maybe they are the same, but Thorion simply requested a new account and the moderators allowed it(though considering Jet 556 was suspended, I doubt it). But I would be very surprised if they weren’t the same. If this was already brought up and debunked, I apologize. I haven’t seen any evidence that this has been cleared up, though.
Anyway, Thorion deleted his account, and last I checked jet556 was suspended back in 2015(and possibly banned), so nothing can be done about those accounts.
I am only bringing this up because in his last PM to me before deleting his account Thorion said he would “accept whatever punishment he received”, but he deleted his account(and I don’t know if he did it while under suspension, which would be a bounce, or if he did it before), and now this new Donner account, just created in March 2024 after Thorion deleted his account, is the only person to respond in my discussion so far. And if my suspicions are true, then Thorion has likely ban evaded in the past, meaning there is a chance for him to do it again.
If geolocation confirms Donner is a different person, then that’s fine. I’ve been wrong before. Again, nothing really suspicious other than the account’s age. They’ve only made a few edits so far so it’s difficult to tell at this point(they edited on some of the same pages Thorion did, but Thorion’s edited on a LOT of pages and Donner has also edited pages Thorion hasn’t, so there’s no real evidence). I just want to know because a discussion can’t really be had against a possible ban evader for numerous reasons.
Again, sorry to bother you about this.
Update: Posted more evidence of Donner likely being jet556/Thorion in the replies.
Edited by ClownishchimpopenVandalizing a page
There's a troper who has been vandalizing a fanfic's page. While they pretend to act in good faith on the page itself, they've also been boasting about what they've been doing on social media and it's quite clear that they just want to bash the fic itself while smearing the author. What can we do in those situations?
Edited by AnaeLeoneresolved Is my grammar good enough with Grammarly?
So I posted my Get Help With English forum like the one below two days but no one checked it so the next day I reposted it again but still, no one checked it. Is it because it doesn't need to be fixed because of Grammarly or because I was punished for my past actions? Here's the post that I was talking about.
- Tampering with Food and Drink: In the end, when Brittney and her presumed dead mother celebrate their victory, her mother takes a slip of the drink that Brittney hands out to her, she says that the drink is strong. Brittney gives a smug smile and quote "They do make them strong here, don't they?", implying that Brittney poisoned her mother to get the money for herself.
- Food Fight: Combine with Cat Fight. When Emilia refuses to move while Ivy politely tries to leave during the family dinner with The Ardiente Family, Ivy grows impatient and shoves the cake (that Emilia was holding) to Emilia's face and an enraged Emilia starts fighting with Ivy while the cake smears on them.
Is my grammar good enough to send?
Note: Yes, I am aware that there are other volunteers and I shouldn't rely on one person but two days ago and probably today they were not available. And I am a changed person so I didn't beg in a post nor I do send a pm complaint about something anymore.
Edited by Bubblepigresolved ZCE re-commented out
i was looking over the YMMV.Charlottes Web page (mainly trying to find an edit I made, but not important to this query), and noticed that the Ensemble Dark Horse example just simply listing Templeton and nothing else had been already back-and-forthed over by different users:
- originally added as a ZCE in 2017
- jamaicanst01 commented it out in 2019
- and Pamina uncommented it in 2022 without expanding on it
i was going to re-comment it out again, but i don't want to fumble myself into edit-warring over it...
openSelf-Promotion in forums?
Remind me what the official stance on it, aside making wiki pages. What I mean is that I feel this
and this
post contradict each other.
resolved Question about adding two colliding YMMV tropes at once:
So Silent Hill: The Short Message came out last month to a pretty polarized reception, and there's a specific dynamic about it I want to document about it, that being the debate on whether it's "a real Silent Hill game" or not. There's been a lot of different directions on it I felt could be covered, but I'm specifically interested in how detractors come in both It's the Same, So It Sucks and They Changed It, Now It Sucks! varieties, with the entries being something like:
- It's the Same, So It Sucks, referring to how some critics accuse it of being a watered-down imitation of earlier formulas established in the series, including the "journey through a horror landscape that's a metaphor for the protagonist's trauma and repressed guilt" codified by Silent Hill 2, but not as interesting.
- They Changed It, Now It Sucks! (probably the more common criticism) in that the game focuses more on "modern" Survival Horror game tropes and features a story that some accuse of being more "trendy", melodramatic, and not like "real" Silent Hill (I've seen the focus on teenage depression, abuse, and suicide being compared to unfavorably to Life is Strange).
I trust myself in not veering too hard into complaining (I actually like the game for the most part and find the divided response interesting), but I was wondering if adding these two directions at once might be actually more appropriate as a Broken Base entry, and that it's not kosher to put these points down until the requisite 6-month waiting period has passed. I don't think these audience reactions are mutually exclusive — there are different nuances to what either is referring to for what they expect from the game — but I just wonder if it's good praxis to trope in the way I'm proposing, or if I should just wait for the 6 months for a collective Broken Base entry.
Edited by number9roboticresolved Should I put this into TRS?
I've been reading through Animated Shock Comedy and noticed that many of the examples tend to comment on its quality. Whether if it's gushing about the inclusion of character development, or discussing about negative or divided viewer reactions.
Examples in the page that show this:
- "Sausage Party has plenty of Character Development and a solid plot, but it still sold itself on being the first 3D computer-animated feature to get an R-rating. Viewers are divided on its quality, with some feeling that it tried too hard to shove crude humor into every available place it could find."
- "Hoops, another Netflix cartoon. The main character is a completely unlikable Jerkass, and the humor is very crass, with lots of dick jokes and extreme amounts of F-bombs from its VERY foul-mouthed protagonist. While jerkass protagonists are hardly rare in this genre, this one's sheer obnoxiousness garnered the show many negative reviews, and likely led to its swift cancellation."
- "A lot of the humor in Rick and Morty is extremely sophomoric, with phallic imagery, burp/fart jokes, pop culture references and violence galore; however, much like Bojack Horseman, it plays the consequences of a lot of these jokes completely straight for the sake of furthering the story and developing the characters, who even at their flattest are much more fleshed out and three-dimensional than a good deal of the show's contemporaries..."
Basically, I think the trope tends to attract both complaining and gushing that I think examples should be rewritten to be less YMMV.
What do you think?
Edited by RuckusHearts

I was looking at how the polar opposites of Chronic Self Deprecation and Inferiority Superiority Complex can progress, both positives and negatives. But both are simply regarded as a Vice without a word of resolution.
I know Pride can be positive for self worth improvement, like look at any Hero who is motivated by their friends, family, heritage or achievements. I just wanted a deeper look on the tropes surrounding those stories and how their character journies might be distinct from one another. How foils can meet in the middle or support one another. Or make things worse for each other.