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openConcerns about the Destined Death folder claiming that it's an Outer God.
I mentioned this on the discussion page
a couple of days ago, but got no response, so I mentioned it here as well. Elden Ring: Outer Gods treats Destined Death and the unnamed Outer God of the Twinbird as if they were the same, causing that other pages describe Destined Death as an Outer God. This puzzles me because neither the fextralife wiki
nor the fandom wiki
do this.
The argument in favor is that, and I quote: "The power of the Prince of Death's Staff, derived from the Destined Death that Maliketh seized from the Gloam-Eyed Queen, empowers both the ghostflame and Death sorceries of the Deathbirds; in addition, the Mausoleum Knights who protect the bodies of slain demigods use the wings and eclipse symbols of Deathbirds, and the Eclipse Shotel associated with them can inflict Deathblight, an affliction born from the Prince of Death. All of these indicate they are most likely separate manifestations of the same power, who have intervened in the Lands Between ever since the arrival of the twinbird."
Although these connections are indeed mentioned in the game, I think it's a stretch to suggest that they come from the same source.
Deathblight is first and foremost an in-game mechanic, and it has its quirks. Both Wormfaces and Basilisks can give you Deathblight but aren't affected by incantations that kill Those Who Live in Death, and neither are Tibia Mariners which are strongly linked to Those Who Live in Death. So it's not a bulletproof argument.
The game said that Godwyn's current state is the result of a rite performed by Ranni, in which both were killed with a fragment of Destined Death at the same time, but Ranni died in flesh but her soul lived, while Godwyn died in soul but his body lived. Meaning that if not for this rite, Destined Death should have straight up killed Godwyn, both in soul and body, a "true death," very different from the ancient God of Twinbird, which is associated with an afterlife, and typical undead and necromancy stuff.
Keep in mind that the Frenzied Flame and the Fell God of the Giants also share themes like fire and eyes, and somehow you can use yourself as kindling in the forge of the giants to burn the Erdtree and SURVIVE if you inherit the Flame of Frenzy, but the game still mentions these two as separate entities, which means that just because the Prince of Death has some link to Destined Death doesn't guarantee that they are all products of the same God.
Also, it is really telling that the folder ignores all the connections that exist between the Destined Death and the Elden Ring. The other name for Destined Death is the Rune of Death, and the Elden Ring is composed of runes. The Godskin Nobles have a similar physiology to those close to the crucible, which is "the Erdtree in its primordial form", and, according to Enia, the Golden Order was created by "plucked" the Rune of Death, suggesting that the concept of death was once part of the Elden Ring (something Miyazaki himself mentions
).
In the end, the game is very vague and ambiguous on this subject, but our current page is anything but ambiguous, it's basically a fan theory presented as facts, and I think we should cut the folder out completely.
Edited by SoyValdo7resolved Is this a valid example of Playing Against Type? Web Original
So someone added this to Etra chan saw it!:
- Playing Against Type: In this episode
, Azami, who usually plays an Obnoxious In-Law, gets the role of the abused daughter-in-law and her usual role goes to Akane. Yuzuriha is also cast as a nerdy girl, which is usually Tsutsuji's role, and Tsutsuji herself gets Yuzuriha's usual role as a Crusading Lawyer.
As far as I know, the trope seems to cover only actors that play against what they're usually cast for, and don't include any in-universe examples. (For context, Etra chan saw it! has the characters as actors In-Universe).
Edited by mickey96openTrying to avoid an Edit War
A while ago I added the following example to Family Guy S7E12: "Episode 420":
- Broken Aesop: The episode advocates for the legalization of marijuana by having Brian specifically say that the town's productivity has gone up since everyone started smoking. However, this is contradicted by some scenes that show how those who have used the substance have become almost completely unable to function properly. Tom and Diane can barely form cohesive sentences while reporting the news, and Peter himself struggles to set up one of his trademark Cutaway Gags.
Noob Master later changed
"Broken Aesop" into "Don't Shoot the Message", without making any other modifications. The problem is that, in doing so, this became a Zero-Context Example. The entry is about how events within the work contradict the presented viewpoint, which is the definition of Broken Aesop. Don't Shoot the Message should specifically describe how viewers agree with the message, but dislike the execution.
As such, I would like to ask for permission to revert the trope to what it originally was.
openAbout the Elden Ring cut content
I've noticed that the Elden Ring pages make liberal use of the cut content that was data mined from the game files, there's even a section on the character page dedicated to the cut characters.
This makes some sense, as some of them help to understand the characters and mysteries of the game, and there is the possibility that they were cut out to save them for later content, such as St. Trina's questline. However, other information seems to contradict what is known, such as a cut dialogue in which Morgott refers to himself as Elden Lord, something that is impossible.
Furthermore, this information is presented as factually correct, although we do not know if this is the case. Bernahl's maiden is mentioned in his folder but is never mentioned in the base game and was apparently cut very early in development, as she was only mentioned in the Japanese version. It's commonly agreed that it was the merchants who summoned the Frenzied Flame in retaliation for being persecuted by the Golden Order, but this is only known thanks to Kalé's questline, which was cut and is not mentioned anywhere else in the game, in fact, Shabriri's Woe suggests that it was Shabriri himself who summoned the Frenzied Flame.
My point with this is not to argue whether everything I mentioned is true or not, what I want to discuss is whether it is right to use content that the creator has decided not to include in the final product and present it as valid, even if we don't know if it is still canon.
I think we should treat all information that is not in the final game as non-canon until the creator releases more content.
Edited by SoyValdo7resolved Artist intent vs. Audience perseption
So I was thinking about adding a DeviantArt creator named "Femdom-OTS-Fan" to the Fan Work folders of the pages Victory Pose On Person and Over-the-Shoulder Carry since they create a lot of images depicting those two tropes.
They themself have explicitly
stated that they don't consider what they are creating to be Not Safe for Work (except if it is uploaded to a separate account which literally has NSFW in its name) since, according to them, physical female domination and someone being carried over someone else's shoulder appeals to them like sunsets appeal to other people. But I can also certainly see why anyone who is not them would disagree with their assessment of their own work. It is also worth noting that all their images are flagged as "Mature content" though I don't know for sure whether it was them or Deviantart who did this.
Since I of course don't want to violate this website's policy, I would like to ask whether or not in such cases, the creators intent of "This is not Rule 34" overrules any opposing opinions and evaluations by people who are not them?
openFranchise Question
Recently, I created a range for the BBC Books releases of the series Torchwood. With this, the parent show, and Torchwood: The Lost Files, there's enough there to warrant a Franchise page which I am thinking of making as well. However, what makes this case a bit murky to me is that Torchwood is a Spin-Off of Doctor Who, which in of itself is a franchise. Additionally, Torchwood material is already covered by the Doctor Who Expanded Universe. Could the franchise page still be created or what would the protocol be here?
Edited by HoloMew151openFanwork-Only Fans questions
I have several questions about Fanwork-Only Fans:
- YMMV.Yu Gi Oh Forbidden Memories has one regarding fan mods (covered by Come for the Game, Stay for the Mods). Practically every other FOF entry I've seen is about the series/franchise in its entirety, not just individual episodes/installments (I assume because being fans of the rest is Fanon Discontinuity instead). Does or should that limit in scope apply to FOF? Or is it just not this game that qualifies as it has a more fitting item covering it?
- YMMV.My Immortal "The fic has reached such huge infamy that many are fans of it without having read or watched the Harry Potter series." I believe this misuse as something that should go under the Harry Potter page as the works subject to such, and that fanworks are exempt as examples are instead Recursive Fanfiction (I might have asked but can't recall). Thoughts about these?
- Sandbox.Enjoy The Setting Ignore The Story was made, then given to me once the creator lost interest. I'm wondering if that's too redundant with FOF (maybe make it a redirect), or worth keeping separate. Thoughts?
- YMMV.RWBY "The series has a vocal amount of fans (and even haters) who adore the setting and characters, but not the show itself. As such, many of them are drawn towards fan works, with some of the most well-known ones even promoting themselves as being improved retellings of the show's narrative." My impression was was FOF requires they never even check out the work, but how can they know enough about it do dislike the canon handling unless they follow/watch enough about it Fanon Discontinuity is a better fit? And/or is this were Enjoy the Setting, Ignore the Story might be a better fit?
While Trope Talk seems the best place to ask, I'm concerned this might be too broad/too many separate questions for a single thread, so I'm being here first to sort out/see if other thread might be the better place to ask some of these questions.
resolved Is this an example of PhlebotinumProofRobot? Webcomic
Trope summary: most of the cast in a work is being affected by something, except for one... because they're a robot.
So: Schlock of Schlock Mercenary is descended from self-repairing computer memory/storage units. One storyline had the crew finding out some politically sensitive information, and having their memories modified as a result. Schlock was able to bypass this by using his 'biology' to make a backup of his real memories, and restoring them later.
resolved "A time to kill": From Questionable trope entries to a questionable page overall. Film
So...I noticed the page for A Time to Kill was made years ago by erforce, who's account was deleted a while ago. Overall, the way it was all written sounds weirdly apologetic to the two white supremacists while overtly critical to Carl and the protagonists of the film.
I'll be very honest; I'm unfamiliar with the policy in regard to entries with tropes like Black-and-Gray Morality, if any, so I will need the perspective or knowledge of fellow tropers on this one.
I was looking through the page, and then I noticed the entries done for Black-and-Gray Morality, and I noticed this:
* What the men did to his daughter was undoubtedly reprehensible, but did that give Carl Lee the right to take their lives? If it had been a black rapist getting shot, would there be as much discussion? What if it had been your child? Well, much depends on the personal standpoint.
I can't quite put my finger on what's wrong with this entry, aside from the obvious whataboutism, but there's something that seems a bit off.
I'm also thinking, upon second inspection, it's not just the entries for that trope that are the only problematic thing about the way this page was written. Again, alot of this was edited by other tropers, but I do know that it wasn't really altered so much as it was broken up into smaller entries from what Erforce originally had written. There's more than what I've listed here, but that can be seen on the page itself.
Overall, what should be my next step of action with this? More importantly, what does everyone else make of how this page was written?
Edited by Stardust5099openLinking to Character pages in trope examples
I was asked about this in a PM but since I didn't have an answer and I've been curious about it myself lately I'll ask it here.
Over the past several months I've noticed people embedding links to Character pages in trope examples (Especially Character Specific Page) and while it doesn't feel right to me I'm not sure if that's actually against the rules or not.
Edited by rmctagg09open2 Strange discussion posts on Kingdom of Heaven
Chet120 did something weird on Kingdom of Heaven 's page. (EDIT: Its Discussion page)
For context: this is a film set in Jerusalem during the Crusades. It was also controversial at the time it came out, because it portrays the Muslims mostly as good guys and the Christians, except for the main character, as bad(der) guys; and this came out relatively soon after 9-11.
Chet 120's first post was an insanely long list of what they claim is history. Their 2nd post is even more bizarre, and seems to consist of conspiracy theories, and to be politics-based. Also to maybe attract visitors to his website? (because he also states his, I assume Real-Life, name).
None of this has anything to do with the movie itself, or tropes. The user also is quite new, and has made 0 edits of the Wiki.
I sent them a PM, but it seemed serious enough to also mention here.
Edited by LB7979resolved How to make a redirect page. Western Animation
I want to make a Nightmare Fuel redirection for OPAL, so it redirects to the Nightmare fuel page for Jack Stauber. All the examples regarding Opal are already on the Jack Stauber page, and there's no existing page on Nightmare Fuel for Opal by itself.
openMost Writers Are Writers is about... what exactly?
The trope Most Writers Are Writers is just confusing to me. From what I've read in the description, it's meant to be a flexible trope to either showcase characterization pertaining to the writer profession and/or how it affects the plot, or even a Chekhov's Skill. But a lot of the examples I've found on the page itself is of "This character's a writer/novelist/screenplayer" with no mention of anything as to why that's relevant. This seems like a chairs magnet to me, and it either needs a clean-up, a rework or a splitting.
resolved Reporting self-recommended fanfic
I noticed that on the Zootopia fanfic recs page, a troper added their own fic a few years ago,
then added other people's names to the rec after the fact. I hid it at first, then looked over ATT for precedent, then removed it entirely.
Is there anything else that needs to be done?
openTBSC misuse/argues with itself?
YMMV.Carol And The End Of The World
- Too Bleak, Stopped Caring: The world and everything on it is doomed to be destroyed when the planets collide and there is nothing that can be done to stop it. As such, it's hard to get invested in this world and the plot lines when you know how it will all ultimately end in a few months.
- An averted example could be seen from the show as well. Despite the end of the world, people still try to live their lives throughout the show. Rather than despair about their deaths, they live their lives to the fullest and find satisfaction with even trying to do so.
YMMV cannot be played with so the last part is misuse.
My question is does the main entry not apply as it's optimistic despite the bleak premise and/or it fails to give say audiences were turned off by the story? (This sounds more like Audience-Alienating Premise without the required proof given it's the premise so those who wouldn't like it avoided it as opposed to having their interest worn out by the bleakness.)
I asked Is this an example?
but was ignored. The TBSC cleanup has been inactive for several weeks so I'm asking here first.
openEdit War?
This was added
to YMMV.Komi Cant Communicate by OneBoiledPotato
- Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Wakai in Chapter 443. While it's a bit insensitive from Mangabi to let Wakai in the dark for months during a stressful period despite already deciding she's gonna turn him down. The fact that Wakai decides to respond to this by confessing again, but this time, publicly in front of a whole crowd that includes his close friends doesn't endear him much to viewers, given he's essentially peer pressuring her into accepting his confession after she already told him she needed time to think about it.
- Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Wakai in Chapter 443. While it's a bit insensitive of Manbabi to leave Wakai in the dark for some time even after she's decided she'll turn him down (fearing telling him too soon could damage his sports performance), the fact that Wakai ends up confessing again, but this time, publicly in front of a whole crowd that includes his close friends doesn't endear him much to some viewers, given he could be seen as peer pressuring her into accepting his confession after she already told him she needed time to think about it (despite Manbagi herself having many more peers there who would take her side, and Manbagi giving no indication she felt any such peer pressure in her own account fo the second confession).
This was removed by skan123 for being contradictory.
Later, OneBoiledPotato adds this
saying the contradiction is fixed.
- Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Wakai in Chapter 443. While it's a bit insensitive of Manbabi to leave Wakai in the dark for some time even after she's decided she'll turn him down (fearing telling him too soon could damage his sports performance), the fact that Wakai ends up confessing again, but this time, publicly in front of a whole crowd that includes his close friends doesn't endear him much to some viewers, given he could be seen as peer pressuring her into accepting his confession after she already told him she needed time to think about it.
Is it fine?
resolved Daylight Horror reverted
So, Daylight Horror was made a disambiguation page a while ago because it was determined
that something scary happening during the day wasn't itself a trope.
However, Klaiopoiso
has recently decided to ignore that and restore the page without any discussion. The closest was them bringing up in the discussion page
, but they the only feedback they got were two people agreeing the trope shouldn't have been cut. The decision to restore the page seemed unilateral, and they didn't seem to take it through the TRS. The page is also a stub, with only two entries.
Can I get a page revert please?
Edited by chasemaddiganopenLiving Relic disappeared
Does the Living Relic page... exist for anyone else? I just made an edit to it, and as far as I can tell, the page just isn't there anymore. The history is still there, and I can see the changes I made there, but the page itself is empty. The problem seems to have started while I was editing the page; the preview function just showed a blank page.

I wanted to make this discussion because I saw that the Ron the Death Eater example for Chris Thorndyke was deleted. Here it is.
I actually agree with this example, but it was deleted because apparently it was added by a ban evader. I am for adding it back because although Chris is not my favorite character of this show (due to some issues with how he was written), I do agree that fans do tend to demonize this kid.