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Ask the Tropers:
openTrope Repair Shop? Videogame
Can someone tell me what constitutes trope misuse?
I noticed irregularities on the Stance System and took it to the repair shop. But unbeknowst to me, misuse is a very loaded term on this site and I didn't have a firm enough case.
When is it serious enough to warrant a new thread, and if it isn't that serious, should I just open a discussion tab on the trope itself, or is there some other forum thread?
open Paper Mario the Horror King Videogame
Can someone tell me why Paper Mario: the Origami King DOESN'T have its own Nightmare Fuel page? The game has a bunch of horrifying things that by all means SHOULD warrant its own Nightmare Fuel page, but for some reason it doesn't. (I think for some time it actually DID have it's own Nightmare fuel page, but now I can't find it.) Am I able to add it myself, or does someone else have to do it?
Edit: Wait, why can't I reply anymore?
Edited by SpideyopenPaper Mario Origami King Development Speculation Videogame
So in Paper Mario The Origami King's Trivia page, I wrote this.
Troubled Production: Based on what can be inferred from interviews and clues from the game itself, there's a case to be made that during the game's development, there was quite a bit of friction between Intelligent Systems and Kensuke Tanabe.
- As mentioned above in Executive Meddling, the development staff was not allowed to create original characters based on mainline races in the Mario cast, as was possible in the first two games. Kensuke Tanabe enforced this based off of Shigeru Miyamoto's one time expression that he thought that the Paper Mario series was deviating too far from his vision of what Super Mario Bros games should be like. Tanabe took this to heart... by shutting down any and all elements that deviated from standard Mario fare that weren't completely different in the first place. This is in spite of Miyamoto having since expressed that he doesn't want the Super Mario Bros. franchise to become stagnant by only using tropes and characters that audiences are familiar with.
- Intelligent Systems were vehemently opposed to Tanabe's extremely strict meddling on how characters were allowed to be presented in the game, despite not being able to challenge the ruling. So instead they resorted to walking around the rule as much as possible. Olivia insisting on referring to Bob-Omb as Bobby, along with the Legion of Stationery all having wildly exaggerated personalities to make up for any lack of visual detail beyond each being an Animate Inanimate Object are just a few examples of the developers trying to skirt past this rule.
It was shot down as Speculative Troping, and while I want to bring attention to some of the details that I found regarding Origami King's development, I also don't want to break any wiki rules. So I asked the person who erased it if I should put this in the game's WMG page instead. He told me that he thought it was frowned upon, and that I should ask here before doing anything else.
Should this be placed on the game's WMG page as a "meta" (theory outside of the game's lore) tab, somewhere else entirely, or does this sort of stuff have no place on TV Tropes?
Edited by MetroidPeteropenHow do we handle actor pseudonyms? Videogame
On Characters.Command And Conquer Tiberian Sun, one of the character's actors (CABAL, in the Nod folder) is listed as their pseudonym, but in parenthesis, it mentions that they were credited by their real name in the manual (not sure what they're credited as in-game, never played it).
How do we handle situations like this? Do we use their real name (if known) or their credited pseudonym? The actor in question — Milton James
— had multiple pseudonyms that he used for different roles. Do we use each one as credited, or just stick with his real name for every role?
What about cases like the original Metal Gear Solid, where nearly everyone used a pseudonym but used their real names in sequels? Which names do we use there? Does popularity mean anything? David Hayter is pretty much universally known as the voice of Solid Snake (he even played himself in MGS4), but he was credited as "Sean Barker" in the original MGS1.
In some cases, actors use pseudonyms to accept non-union roles (This is actually why they used pseudonyms in MGS1). Does that affect anything?
openDoes Solas from Dragon Age: Inquisition count as a Greater Scope villain for the first 2 games? Videogame
For Elven characters, the evil god Fen'Harel is considered the evil god of their religion and culture, and part of the reason they suffer in the present, as they are a slave race to humans. But in Dragon Age: Inquisition, in the DLC Tresspasser, we learn that one of our companions, a mysterious elf named Solas, is really Fen'Harel himself, and that the gods of the Elves are mages so powerful, it might be safe to call them gods. We also learn that the only reason he sided with us, was to get the Eluvians so that he could use them to destroy modern Thedes and bring back a civilization he destroyed when he rebelled against his fellow mages. Solas claims he rebelled for a good cause, but in the end, he caused more harm then help as he separated Thedes from the Fade, robbing the Elves of their power, killing thousands of his own people, many of them innocents, and being the cause of the plights of the modern elves that we see in all three games. Does this qualigy him as a Greater Scope Villain? I say yes. What about you?
openStyle Savvy title confusion Videogame
About a month ago, VampireBuddha did a major overhaul of the Style Savvy series and split the individual games into their own pages. Which wouldn't be an issue in itself, except the new pages are under their European names of Style Boutique. I'm fairly certain that American titles take precedence here, but even if they don't, there's a mismatch between the franchise name and the individual games. This is potentially a bigger project than I want to take on right now; does anyone else want to take a look?
openMisused: Villain Has a Point Example Videogame
So, the idea behind the "X has a point" tropes is when a character with negative connotations is mentioned to have a point In-Universe. So in this entry in the Visual Novel folder, we have:
- Fate/stay night: An All There in the Manual example. Gilgamesh plans to use the corrupted Grail to unleash all of humanity's sins upon the world, which will kill off ninety percent of the population, and then rule over what remains. The heroes never discuss this plan; he obviously needs to be stopped, there is no need to talk about it. But due to the way magic works, there's nothing inherently wrong with his plan. The people of Uruk were practically a Precursor race, part of the reason for humanity's decline is because magic has been spread out among too many people, and as humanity's first king Gilgamesh does have the divine right to make this sort of decision. But it never gets brought up in text because obviously he can't be allowed to kill billions of people.
Given that in the visual novel itself this never gets brought up as a good point and all characters react with disgust towards this idea, is this really a case of Villain Has a Point? From what i've observed this seems to be more of an out of universe interpretation from the user. (Specially since, again, all characters dismiss his Divine Right of Kings as a cheap excuse towards his actions)
openPossible Character-centric Entry Pimping? Videogame
This has been a thing that bugged me for a while, but does anyone else feel that a lot of the entries under Lunafreya's folder on the Final Fantasy XV - Other Allies page come off as shoehorning? Especially considering that while she's a divisive Base-Breaking Character rather than The Scrappy, the part where she's considered to be a Flat Character with minimal screentime is largely unanimous and the divide comes down to whether she was always a shallow and uninteresting character or whether she was originally a rounder character whose depth was all cut out of the game. Hence most of the entries (which were made before the novel that finally fleshes her out was released) come on the back of what appears to be Fan Wank extrapolations rather than supported by the primary text of the game, considering she has so little dialogue, even less interacting with others.
A few of them come from the Kingsglaive movie, which is where the bulk of her screentime and character depth come from, but is also known for being basically a different character from her in-game portrayal. But others seem to be attempting to spin something meaningful out of offhand comments from the flatter in-game depiction that don't actually manifest meaningfully into tropes. I personally don't remember a lot of these entries from when I played it, and at best some of these even appear to be the result of the rather chaotic and inconsistent promotion for the game that often contradicted itself.
Edited by AlleyOopopenBase Breaking Character, Persona 5 Royal. Videogame
The following contains Royal spoilers. You have been warned.
I just noticed this Paragraph from Persona 5 that seriously bugs me:
- Kasumi Yoshizawa was inevitably going to rouse a divide. While some appreciate the steps that were taken to prevent a repeat of the backlash garnered for Marie and see her as a decent character in her own right. Others find that she’s a largely irrelevant character to both the main plot and the third semester where she takes center stage. To some, she's worse than Marie since Marie still enriched the story, and she still managed to come across as friends with the other members of the Investigation Team outside of the protagonist. Sumire, on the other hand, has little to no interaction with the Phantom Thieves who aren't called Joker or Akechi note She does have one scene where Futaba is included, but some would argue that even then it's still about Joker than actually introducing Sumire to a teammate making her feel isolated amongst the Phantom Thieves. Even those who love Sumire tend to agree with her detractors that she was made playable way too late in the game and suffers for it as she exists within a bubble that only floats down whenever Joker's involved. Some see her as being forced into a preexisting story and adds nothing new to the story or to the Phantom Thieves. note Her backstory has been compared to Futaba's. Only this time around really she was responsible for someone's death. Her unhealthy way of coping isn't unlike Yusuke turning a blind eye to Maderame's abuse of his pupils. Her getting angry at the expectations bestowed upon her was Makoto's breaking point. Even her teaching Joker some gymnastics comes across as odd to some since Joker was already performing gymnastic feats without her assistance in the base game and before their Confidant even started. There's also some debate on her Character Development. She either ends the game as a completed person living as Sumire, or she's still living in the shadow of the real Kasumi and Joker at the same time note Those who go for the latter feel that she doesn’t behave any different as Sumire than she does as Kasumi and Sumire goes right back to emulating Kasumi's look at the end of her Confidant (which itself causes some minor debate; Is she just honoring her sister? Is there a better way to do that without making it seem like she's regressing?). Meanwhile, living in Joker's shadow ties right back into the fact that she barely has a life outside of him. And that her preexisting self-esteem issues are just gone when she gets confirmation that Kasumi saw her as an equal and rival the whole time. What can make matters worse is how one feels about Maruki's inclusion, whether or not it's better or worse than how Sumire was handled. Even her entire relationship with Joker is debated upon. It's either one of the more natural Confidants, or Joker is forced into caring about her and is completely out of character around her. note Some have noticed that the player is rarely given the chance to snark at her or criticize her like they can to virtually every other person he comes in contact with. And that her status as the Implied Love Interest is constantly being shoved down players throats note She basically admits to loving Joker at Rank 8, a lot of her designs are meant to mirror Joker, and she's the only character Joker has a Showtime with besides Akechi and arguably hurts her Character development.
I have also been issued a request on Base Breaker Cleanup
to review this.
Basically:
- Many of the arguments in this entry are heavily biased and flawed, for a person who was well-versed with Royal's storyline, at the least
- Guessing and Alternative Character Interpretation that can simply be rebuked within in-game dialogue
- The flaws of this character, as far as where it was left largely unambiguous, is that she barely has any interaction with other PT members and no involvement other than the last month of game, something which has been unambiguously agreed upon. It belongs exactly in They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character.
- Character is largely well received in the fandom unlike most entries there.
I've been removed the paragraph for now, if anyone else adds it the next time, I leave it alone until further notice, because someone added it back earlier on and I don't want this to degenerate into an edit war.
Edited by Mr-ex777openTierInducedScrappy Edit War Videogame
A while ago, I added an entry to the YMMV page for Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn regarding Tier Induced Scrappy for a Crutch Character named Sothe.
Around March 4th troper Slimeshady adjusted the entry to be arguing with itself by making it talk about how he "used to be seen as one" and is now defending the character. I will put it under a note so it doesn't fill too much of this space out note Sothe used to be this. He's this game's equivalent to a Jagen, despite his decent growths, and has by far the worst third tier class (terrible stat caps including a measly 28 strength cap, and being restricted to knives, which are the weakest weapons in the game), and having a mastery skill that just leaves opponents at 1 HP with no additional effects while all other mastery skills do such egregiously high damage that they may as well outright kill. To make matters worse he has a forced promotion that doesn't occur until after you already completed the first Part 4 chapter, meaning he doesn't even get to be a third tier unit in one of his two pre-Endgame Part 4 maps, so you can't even raise him enough to be somewhat useful for some of Part 4 and he is going to be even farther behind when he does finally promote before you consider his awful caps. The biggest sticking point with players, though, is the fact Sothe is a forced unit throughout much of the game, and is mandatory to bring along into the endgame, where his class limitations make him nigh-useless; the last one is especially bothersome to fans of Volke, who is an objectively superior knife-wielder to Sothe (his base strength is greater than Sothe's maximum strength with comparable speed, while his mastery skill is a guaranteed death blow with the same activation rate), which means to bring Volke along into the endgame would mean having two knife-wielders among your limited units (while there's also only one SS knife in the game). In more recent times though as Jagens are looked at much more favorably by the community, the receptions to Sothe has changed, as Sothe is so indispensable in Part 1 and the DB's Part 3 missions (i.e. the hardest parts of the game), and that by the time he loses his usefulness, it doesn't really matter when you have so many other overpowered units to pick up the slack. Tier lists covering the game as a whole will generally put Sothe in the top tier as he is just so good in Part 1, and without him the early Part 1 maps would be insanely difficult on Hard/Maniac, while when the other Crutch Characters join in later Part 1 he still stands out for his great movement, strong 1-2 range with forged Knives, and all the thieving duties he can do. That said there are still certainly some people who don't care about Sothe's Part 1 contributions and remain resentful of how irredeemably bad Sothe gets in Part 4 while remaining a forced unit.
I adjusted the entry to be back to how it was before, but I did adjust it a bit to include his usefulness in part 1 so point out where the issues people had with him gameplay wise were. As it was before, it was arguing with itself since the entry said he was a bad unit but not anymore despite nothing changing about the game. Again I have put this entry under a note to save space. note Sothe, primarily after Part 1. He's this game's equivalent to a Jagen, despite his decent growths, and has by far the worst third tier class (terrible stat caps including a measly 28 strength cap, and being restricted to knives, which are the weakest weapons in the game), and having a mastery skill that just leaves opponents at 1 HP with no additional effects while all other mastery skills do such egregiously high damage that they may as well outright kill. To make matters worse he has a forced promotion that doesn't occur until after you already completed the first Part 4 chapter, meaning he doesn't even get to be a third tier unit in one of his two pre-Endgame Part 4 maps, so you can't even raise him enough to be somewhat useful for some of Part 4 and he is going to be even farther behind when he does finally promote before you consider his awful caps. The biggest sticking point with players, though, is the fact Sothe is a forced unit throughout much of the game, and is mandatory to bring along into the endgame, where his class limitations make him nigh-useless; the last one is especially bothersome to fans of Volke, who is an objectively superior knife-wielder to Sothe (his base strength is greater than Sothe's maximum strength with comparable speed, while his mastery skill is a guaranteed death blow with the same activation rate), which means to bring Volke along into the endgame would mean having two knife-wielders among your limited units (while there's also only one SS knife in the game). As to make this worse, Sothe is the only character who doesn't benefit from the bonus stats from the previous game because unlike others who instead gain a flat bonus for any capped stats, Sothe, if data is transferred, instead gains whatever his stats were from the previous game which means its possible he'll be even worse since his max stats in the previous game are only marginally higher than his bases here. His use in Part 1 is good but due to how awkward Part 1 is, using him to even the odds is more of a long term detriment to your units since he can soak up precious experience.
As of 6/14, they readded their entry, added a section under Vindicated by History note Sothe's perception as a unit. With how unsalvagebly terrible he ends up in Part 4 while remaining a forced unit for the entire game that can't even die without triggering a Game Over until the Part 4 endgame, for a long time Sothe got a lot of hatred from fans for being an "EXP THIEF!" that "stole" EXP from the rest of the Dawn Brigade in Part 1, only to become The Load in Part 4 no matter how much investment he got. In Japan he was even a Memetic Loser for his insistence on being Micaiah's "protector" up to the end of the game, while becoming so ineffectual in combat and was more someone who needed the protection himself. However more and more players started realizing that the endgame and max level stats are only a microcosm of an entire game, and that a unit's contribution in the entire game before that very much matters, with it being especially a big plus if that unit can provide that contribution without requiring significant resources. So Sothe, being such a vital unit for Part 1 (especially the first half) and still a useful offensive unit in the Dawn Brigade's Part 3 chapters with his Beastkiller, became much more highly regarded and shot up to the high or even top tier of unit tier lists, and he also got big props for providing that big contribution in what are generally considered RD's hardest maps (while most of Part 4 is generally considered pretty easy, as you have the Game-Breaker Laguz Royals, a third tier near-invincible Ike, and a bunch of other trained up third tier units, so Sothe being bad at that point doesn't really matter). Sothe additionally gets sympathy from fans for his boss conversations with the likes of Ike, Dhegnisea, and Sephiran, where he acknowledges that he is a normal man amongst gods that really doesn't belong, but he'll still try to fight for Micaiah and the little things even if he is hopelessly outclassed. Sothe nowadays is often regarded as one of the best executed "Jagens" in the series, as he fulfills his role of really helping the player during Early Game Hell and other difficult maps, while actually falling off hard later in the game like Jagens are supposed to unlike many other Jagens who remain strong late into the game or are flatout Game Breakers up to the very end., and added this message as the reason: "Not using Sothe in Part 1 becaus he "steals EXP' is a pitfall that makes Part 1 harder than it actually is, use him.".
This is a matter of debate yes and I should have clarified why I adjusted it previously, that was my fault. However this is becoming an argument at this point. I will message this about this but the entries are written in such a way that they come across as very defensive about this unit and its becoming an edit war at this point.
openDoes Dummied Out apply here? Videogame
This example of Dummied Out is on the page for Animal Crossing: New Horizons:
- Dummied Out:
- Data for the Sanrio villagers exists in New Horizons, but the villagers aren't currently used, possibly being intended to be added to the game in future updates. The other Welcome amiibo-introduced villagers, however, have no data for them whatsoever.
- Museum room IDs exist
for a cafe (presumably the Roost) and a Gyroid exhibit. ID data also exists for a two-room art exhibit, but this was eventually implemented into the game itself via the Nature Day update, implying that the cafe and Gyroid exhibit will be made accessible to players somewhere down the road.
- Another dataminer
found even more info about dummied content. There's an unused shopping menu for the Museum (presumably the shop that was previously seen in New Leaf), as well as "Real Estate" and "Gallery" shops of unknown purpose. Data relating to diving and deep-sea creatures (from New Leaf) that may also tie into a third unused "Seafood" section of the Critterpedianote The manila clam is the only entity in this category which was implemented in the game at launch, vegetables that can be harvested, and recipes for cooked dishes and clothing were also found among the game's files. Finally, there's also data for a third Nook's Cranny upgrade.
- The same miner also found Leif's garden shop, the return of bushes and artwork, and Redd's Treasure Trawler before their proper release in the Nature Day update. The "private beach" where Redd docks is referred to as "Nつねきち" ("NTsunekichi") in the game's files, with Tsunekichi being Redd's Japanese name.
The problem is, New Horizons is a game that's being continuously updated with new content. As stated in the example, some of the items that were listed as Dummied Out have already been added to the game through content updates, and it's likely that more of them will be in the future. Since Dummied Out appears to deal specifically with content that was cut from a game, should examples be listed if there's still a reasonable chance that they could be added to the game?
openManchild or Psychopathic Manchild Videogame
Over the past year, there's been a minor edit war over whether Bowser is a Manchild or a Psychopathic Manchild.
This is his entry:
Bowser is a rich and powerful king, but still shows obvious signs of immaturity on a regular basis; he has nasty mood swings that scare even his most loyal servants, he never feels responsible for his failures, always looking for someone else to blame, and is never satisfied with what he already has, always wanting more. The best showcase of this is when he meets his younger self in Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time: barely anything differentiates them in personality, showing that Bowser has barely evolved mentally since infancy.
Which trope is more appropriate?
openMinecraft YMMV Videogame
A big majority of the YMMV subpages for Minecraft such as Awesome, Funny, and Heartwarming, are mainly just stories about things other players did and put online and have nothing to actually do with the game itself. Is that allowed?
openYMMV.Catherine UnfortunateImplications edit war Videogame
Hey, troper metaverse keeps deleting an Unfortunate Implications entry on the YMMV.Catherine page about some fans being unhappy with Unsettling Gender-Reveal jokes (the scene in question involves a transwoman appearing before coming out in an Alternate Timeline so they can make a joke about another character she is attracted to being unaware she is a transwoman or attracted to him, basically), despite 3 sources to said reactions being provided (per the guidelines), with a Strawman Fallacy edit reason that these are "misunderstandings" about a Transgender character no longer wanting to transition, rather than about the actual content of the entry. Entry:
- Unfortunate Implications: In one of the new endings for Full Body, Catherine goes back in time so she can place herself in Vincent's high school and the two end up dating. An unclear number of years later, at Vincent and Catherine's wedding, Erica is then seen pre-transition with Toby, who previously only became friends with the rest of the cast after Erica's transition, in order to make another joke about Erica's attraction to Toby. Outside potentially inadvertently removing Erica's identity and agency, this was mainly seen as Atlus doubling down on problematic Unsettling Gender-Reveal jokes in the story by a number of fans, especially in the trans community in both the West and Japan. It even got to the point where several people refused to buy the game or support Atlus in the future. The English voice actress for Erica, Erin Fitzgerald, explained shortly afterwards that the localization team would try to adjust the ending for the Western release. (Sources: Kotaku
, Daily Dot
, Dualshockers
)
I'm not really sure what to do at this point because the edit reasons for removing don't seem to have anything to do with the actual entry? Honestly, if the entry should go for the sake of Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment, I understand, but feel like their strawman Mis-blamed and Overshadowed by Controversy should go too then.
Edited by ashlayopenOutside opinions on disagreement Videogame
Cutting off a brewing edit war at Fallout 3. I'd previously removed the Idiot Plot entry and a user added it back. Here is the entry:
- Idiot Plot: While Fallout 3 is high on the lists of many people for a myriad of reasons, the main plot generally is not one of them.
- The call to action is your dad leaving to jump start his water purifier in order to give the wasteland a source of water. The problem is that this is a non-issue for virtually everyone else living in the wasteland. Aside from everyone having been able to not die of thirst in the 200 years Dad’s device was inactive, the only people you meet in the entire game who are affected by the lack of water are two homeless people that live outside major settlements. This makes his decision seem brash and shortsighted, especially because it resulted in the deaths of many.
- Imagine if you never meet or fight any dragons in Skyrim and the only way you know they exist is because a single npc asks for health potions because of dragon attacks.
- Dad is accosted by the Enclave, who want the purifier for themselves. He decides that a device with unquestionably altruistic functions should be destroyed just so that bad people couldn’t have it. It’s the equivalent of destroying all blood transfusion research so that the Central Powers wouldn’t be able to use it.
- Granted, Eden wanted to use it to kill everyone, but Dad couldn’t have possibly known that at the time.
- You’re railroaded into helping out the residents of Little Lamplight because there is a huge door in your way and children are pointing guns at you. Your only recourse is to take a sidequest or have a perk that is literally useless anywhere else.
- What makes this an example of the trope is that the quest they send you on involves assaulting a fortified base. Forcing your way into Little Lamplight is a much less daunting task but it seems the only reason you can’t do that is because the writer said so.
- You can convince Eden to kill himself in what appears to be a Call-Back to Fallout 1. However, the first Fallout requires a damning amount of evidence to prove to the Master that everything he did has been to the detriment to humanity. Here, you resort to meaningless platitudes that make the President go “Oh well, may as well kill myself.”
- Prior to the DLC, you have to commit radiation-induced suicide to get the heroic ending. Nevermind that you have a handful of companions immune to radiation, even one who retrieved a Macguffin from insurmountable radiation. The DLC mitigates this but still calls you a coward for being intelligent.
- The call to action is your dad leaving to jump start his water purifier in order to give the wasteland a source of water. The problem is that this is a non-issue for virtually everyone else living in the wasteland. Aside from everyone having been able to not die of thirst in the 200 years Dad’s device was inactive, the only people you meet in the entire game who are affected by the lack of water are two homeless people that live outside major settlements. This makes his decision seem brash and shortsighted, especially because it resulted in the deaths of many.
A lot of these points are nitpicking ("no one needs water but the beggars", "the game pulls But Thou Must! at Little Lamplight") and full of natter (most of the secondary subbullets). The only thing approaching a legitimate complaint is Dad and Eden's decisions, but Dad doesn't destroy the purifier he floods its control room with radiation to keep the Enclave away from it, and the speech check with Eden is very difficult to make and the entire idea of the Speech skill is talking people into agreeing with you, so this is less a case of idiocy on Eden's part and more the developers didn't write good dialogue. And the Heroic Sacrifice ending has been retconned away so that point is moot.
Overall this is just a misuse of Idiot Plot and not applicable.
openCan't link videos to media source Videogame
I realized that the page for Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers didn't have video examples linked to it, but videos for Ret-Gone and Player Personality Quiz had examples from that same game anyway. On closer inspection I noticed that the name of the media source given by the videos on each of the trope pages is not completely the same as the title given by the media page. Is there anyway for me to fix this myself?
Edited by TheGrayShadowopenI'm not sure where to put this? Videogame
Mother 3 has a Player Punch entry that is way too long for its own good.
- Player Punch: A lot.
- In Chapter 1, in a series built around the protagonist usually having a close relationship with their mother during their adventure, it goes against the series expectations that Hinawa, Lucas's mother, is killed very violently.
- You then play the first chapter as Hinawa's husband, Flint. Upon finding out about her death, he goes into a terrifying Heroic BSoD, lashing out at other people in the village until he has to be knocked unconscious in order to be subdued. You then get the lovely experience of becoming Tazmily Jail's first prisoner.
- Claus, Lucas's twin brother, then goes out into the mountains to try and avenge Hinawa. He fails.
- As it turns out, the animal responsible for killing Hinawa was a Drago, a perfectly harmless creature Lucas used to be friends with. It's been "reconstructed" by a strange group of men wearing pig masks, making it aggressive and mindless.
- Oh, and who's in charge of all these Pigmasks? Why, Porky Minch, naturally.
- In Chapter 2, you play as a thief named Duster. And, let's just say, his father is not very satisfied by his thieving abilities.
- In Chapter 3, you play as a monkey named Salsa. He's getting routinely abused by a member of the Pigmask army named Fassad. He spends the chapter being forced to help them with their evil deeds, since his girlfriend is being held captive for leverage.
- In Chapter 4, three years have gone by. Let's just say, one of the biggest RPG cliches of all time has been... horrifyingly subverted.
- Then, at the end of the chapter, when the DCMC sing their goodbyes to "Lucky". It's for the greater good, but you'll feel really terrible for finally getting your last party member.
- Chapter 6. Lucas chases Hinawa's ghost through a field of sunflowers, which are associated with her. It ends with you essentially making Lucas attempt suicide.
- In Chapter 7, you find out about these Plot Coupons called the Seven Needles. Only Lucas and the commander of the Pigmask army, The Masked Man, are capable of pulling them. If Lucas pulls them, the world will be reborn anew and everything will be good and pure. If the Masked Man pulls them, the world will cease to exist.
- And, in that chapter, you manage to only pull three. The enemy ends up getting the rest of them.
- Then there's Tanetane Island. After washing up on the shore during a wreck, your party is weak, starving, and incapable of healing themselves. Since you lost all your items, you have no choice but to eat some funky-looking mushrooms off the ground. Let's just say, it ends very, very badly.
- Then, when you get back home, the town is almost completely empty. Everybody's gone to the big city, save for a few individuals.
- In Chapter 8, we meet up with a fellow named Leder. He was the bell ringer in Tazmily Village, and he never spoke a word to anybody. Now that Tazmily is gone and he has no other purpose in life, he reveals that pretty much everything you thought you knew about the world is a lie. The human race destroyed this world long, long before you started playing this game, and the tiny island you've spent the game on is the only habitable place left on Earth. There is hope, but now the entire world is resting squarely on your shoulders, and the odds aren't looking very promising.
- Then you meet the Pig King himself, Porky. He essentially gives the entire human species a "Reason You Suck" Speech. And considering what you just found out, it'll strike a few chords.
- Hey, remember that Masked Man guy? The one who's been pulling all the other needles and striking you down at any given opportunity, hellbent on bringing the world to an end? It's Claus. Lucas's brother.
- You can't defeat Porky. During the fight, he reveals that his constant abuse of time travel has rendered him immortal. At the end of the fight, he locks himself in a machine called the Absolutely Safe Capsule. However, it's revealed that, once he's in there, he can never get out. Ever.
- The final battle in the game is against the Masked Man. It may just be the most heartbreaking "I Know You're in There Somewhere" Fight ever executed. With your party knocked unconscious, leaving you alone, you cannot fight him. A battle implies a conflict on both sides, but Lucas can't bring himself to hurt his brother. All you can do is guard against his attacks, while a terrifying boss theme that rivals Giygas's in intensity assaults your ears. Forcing you to just try and survive blasts from your own iconic attack, slowly watch as your brother gets weaker until he can't even damage you anymore. And it ends with Claus using your always-dependable Franklin Badge that protects you to deliberately blast lightning so it will deflect back at him, with every intention of committing child suicide. All you can do is hear him apologize for his mistakes as he says goodbye... so he... he can be with his mother...
- The ending. There are no words to say, just the ending.
It's just listing the entire game. I'm not doubting that the game pulls punches on the player, but I think we should probably just have highlights of this item, rather every single time the game has a depressing moment.
Edited by PlasmaPoweropenCyberJudas trope page Videogame
Should there be a separate work page for Cyber Judas instead of grouping the sequel’s works along with Shadow President on the page?
(I don’t really know how else to add to this, I’d make the work page myself but I’m not entirely familiar with Cyber Judas aside from watching Joel’s gameplay of it.)
openNot Really Memes? Videogame
Reposting my question here because I have the Discussion page isn't trafficked all that frequently enough to get a prompt response.
Marikusu recently made a bunch of additions
to Fire Emblem: Three Houses that I feel violate the nature of what constitutes a meme, because they seem to be expressly partisan polemics that just happen to be delivered in a cheeky/sarcastic way, rather than the kind innately self-perpetuating humor that usually constitutes a meme. Plus there isn't any meaning to them beyond the face value statements themselves. Also, memes are generally supposed to have broad appeal because of their self-perpetuating nature, hence being about a matter this controversial already limits their ability to appeal to a wide audience.
In the past we've already had to carry out major repair on the YMMV entry for Edelgard under Base-Breaking Character because it was getting too full of these polemics both for and against her, so needless to say anything regarding the grayness surrounding her morality is enough of a delicate matter that the additions are in violation of Rule of Cautious Editing Judgement. Not to mention there was a fair amount of discussion in the game thread that found the fascist label to be inaccurate (the Memes entry admits as much, but goes on to add it anyway with a handwave) and a case of Ron the Death Eater, as while she's certainly a lot of things that aren't exactly good, fascist expressly is not one of them.
Edit: I see that Marikusu nuked
a YMMV entry that explicitly explains how Fascist Edelgard came to become a Discredited Meme to the point a voice actor got involved; whether or not it still sees use in some remaining circles, I do think that treating it as a contemporary meme of worth after that incident definitely comes off as in bad taste, especially since as someone with friends who are fans of all three of the various house lords, the ones who express a liking for Edelgard are the ones who receive the brunt of harassment and personal attacks due to the way modern fandoms behave.

So most of the character pages for Legend of Zelda games have a character/game navigation bar at the top of the page, like so. I saw someone put it on the character page for the upcoming Age of Calamity spin-off game, but not add the game itself to the bar. Which got me wondering if it would be a good idea to update the navigation bar on all the Zelda character pages to include the bigger spin-off games that have such pages, like the Hyrule Warriors games, Cadence of Hyrule, and the CD-i games. (I'd say Ripened Tingle's Balloon Trip of Love as well, but its character page is so lacking, I'm wondering why it even exists.) So should I go ahead and do this?
Edited by RacattackForce