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openA troper who posted extremely biased and outright fabricated edits due to shipping bias Videogame
I saw troper Sayacha change several YMMV entries on Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth and even wrote on Ship Sinking (videogames) that had very biased takes and even blatant lies. I felt compelled to delete and undo their edits, especially the claim on the Ship Sinking page. As I've said there, the claim that protagonist Cloud Strife "friend zones" Aerith Gainsborough in the final chapter of Rebirth is complete fabrication. There are two ways their conversation can go, based on Relationship Values. He either enthusiastically looks forward to going on a date with her again, or responds with less enthusiasm, but he never outright rejects her. Writing that Aerith "probably realized she doesn't like him romantically" is another very biased reading. All she said was that she really likes Cloud but is unsure yet what kind of "like" she feels. It's a deliberately vague response. Anyone with common sense and an objective mind can see that what I say is true by looking at Youtube videos of that scene on Chapter 14.
Sayacha also claimed on both Ship Sinking and the YMMV page that developer's commentary on a book (Ultimania) allegedly said that Aerith was "certainly killed off again" and that developers "confirmed" it themselves. Another blatant fabrication. I checked the claim and the only thing that came up from every non-biased fan translator who translated that Japanese book was that the developers deliberately designed the outcome of Aerith's fate as of Rebirth to be vague and mysterious. Did she die? Is the Aerith shown "alive" afterwards a mere illusion by Cloud? Or is there something more going on? The game's story introduces the concept of Alternate Self and what appears to be Alternate worlds. There are no details yet revealed as to how this phenomena occurs within the lore of FF 7 but it's there. And the developers made a deliberate narrative choice to keep the ending of the game ambiguous and leaving the story full of questions in order to entice players to look forward to the next entry for answers. Ask yourselves. What kind of writer/developer would be incompetent enough to spend YEARS of development time to deliberately create an ambiguous situation to create speculation for the next few years, only to go a couple of months later and say "Actually, nothing changed. LOL"?
I'm also reporting this because I regretfully ended up engaging in an edit war on the YMMV page by deleting/reverting Sayacha's biased edits back to the more neutral posts. However, the main reason I'm reporting this is because I'm seeing another bad sign that the FF 7 pages are about to be swarmed with another wave of edit warring by extremely biased shippers intent on spreading their agenda with bad faith justifications. We've seen this nightmare before in the original 1997 version of FF 7. It may be best to take preventive measures by locking down the pages of FF 7 Remake and Rebirth too until the third and final game finally clarifies everything.
openElden Ring DLC gets its own Video Game page Videogame
So Elden Ring: Shadow of the Erdtree suddenly got a separate page under the video game page (VideoGame.Elden Ring Shadow Of The Erdtree). While I'm not sure it's the right namespace to be used, it feels like it's jumping the gun separating itself so quickly.
The only other times this happened was with Cyberpunk 2077: Phantom Liberty, which fleshed out well enough, and The Witcher 3, which treated them as continuations of the "Tropes A-Z" subpage creation but that comes with consistency issues.
My question is, do we really need to separate the Elden Ring's DLC from the base game in this instance?
openPermission to cut a character page (due to citation issues) Videogame
In Characters.Death End Re Quest Code Z, there are a few entries that cite the official website
(the website has an 18+ warning due to graphic violence). However, in the upcoming works thread
, it was confirmed that official websites do not count (due to, to quote the post, "If something is present solely in commentary made by a work's creator or someone involved in its making, but is not present in the work itself, it cannot serve as the sole source for examples."). It's thanks to this that I also hid some tropes on the main page Death end re;Quest Code Z.
I've already made a sandbox for the characters so I'm asking if it is ok to cut the character and reinstate it once the game is released.
Edited by Ayumi-chanresolved Confused by the FNaF WMG page Videogame
Hey sorry if this is the wrong place to put this.
Anyway, I have a WMG for the entirely of the Five Nights at Freddy's franchise, but there isn't really a series-wide section for the WM Gs like most franchise pages I've run across. It's broken into specific installments and there's an "unsorted" section but it's mostly just short blurbs and mine is pretty long. Also, I noticed there's a lot of guesses for the movie (since it was in production for like nine years) on other pages and I wasn't sure if I should move those to the page for the movie itself.
resolved Poorly explained removal of Anti-Climax Boss from YMMV.Luigi's Mansion 3 Videogame
On Jan 18, 2020
, CookingCat added an example of King Boo to Luigi's Mansion 3 as an Anti-Climax Boss. They described the final boss as lackluster, having an unimpressive stage and moveset, and suffering from Fake Difficulty:
- Anti-Climax Boss: King Boo. The fight itself feels very lackluster compared to his fights in the original Luigi's Mansion and Dark Moon, and especially compared to the Boss Ghosts guarding the other character portraits, simply taking place on the roof of the hotel and having a very mediocre moveset, which especially hurts considering his presence in the early game. It doesn't help that the fight is known for it's clunkiness, Fake Difficulty and lack of polish compared to many of the others before it, especially the difficulty of launching the bombs in his mouth due to the targeting being off, the strange perspective and short period of vulnerability before he begins attacking again, and the final phase of the fight is timed, which, combined with the long length of his attacks and aforementioned short period of vulnerability, makes it easy to lose via the time running out before you even get a chance to attack him.
On Apr 1, 2020
, it was removed without any edit reason by Cman053. I was unaware of this prior edit history or CookingCat's original example.
A little more than a year later on Apr 20, 2021
, after having just finished the game myself, I re-added King Boo as an Anti-Climax Boss. While I never saw CookingCat's writeup, my own writeup incidentally echoed several of their criticisms, such as King Boo feeling lackluster in comparison to his previous fights in the series as well as earlier bosses within the same game; the fight's main "challenge" coming from trying to awkwardly aim a projectile; and spending much of the battle waiting for the boss to cycle through long attack patterns until he finally becomes vulnerable again. I also added the fact that it's a "Feed It a Bomb Three Times" boss battle that is an incredibly generic Nintendo boss formula not fitting a final boss, and the lack of a unique Game Over should the time limit run out (unlike, say, Metroid Dread) making it feel all the more anticlimactic in presentation:
- Anti-Climax Boss: After the challenging and puzzling but fairly enjoyable Hellen Gravely penultimate boss fight immediately beforehand, King Boo makes for a somewhat disappointing Final Boss. It's a fairly straightforward "Feed It a Bomb Three Times" boss battle that is more frustrating than challenging, stemming from the difficulty in aiming the bomb in King Boo's mouth. Even with King Boo spawning decoys and introducing harder attack patterns in each stage, it still ends up feeling repetitive as you're just waiting for King Boo to perform the same attacks until bombs spawn; unlike Dark Moon, there are no chase sequences to break up the battle and spice things up. Not even the time limit is enough to make it feel climactic, since there's no Non-Standard Game Over for letting time run out.
Additionally, King Boo was previously listed as an example of That One Boss by Drope. Since final bosses are exempt from That One Boss status and the example focused more on King Boo being frustrating and annoying instead of difficult, I moved that example to Goddamned Boss instead. It's still listed there as of now.
On Nov 17, 2023
, Fireball246 removed King Boo's Anti-Climax Boss example with the following edit reason: "Ignoring the fact that I’ve seen plenty of people who really liked the fight against King Boo in this game, a lot of these point feel like petty criticisms of being bad at the game rather than the boss itself being “poorly designed” or anything. This all comes across as extremely subjective and definitely doesn’t deserve to be officially labeled as an Anti-Climax Boss." But this edit reason doesn't make sense?
- "Ignoring the fact that I’ve seen plenty of people who really liked the fight against King Boo in this game..." With a quick Google search, I've also seen plenty of people who really disliked the fight. The fact that King Boo was previously listed as an Anti-Climax Boss by another editor, is currently listed as a Goddamned Boss (previously That One Boss), and isn't listed among the Best Boss Ever entries on the same YMMV page shows that other TV Tropes editors feel the same about this boss.
- "...a lot of these point feel like petty criticisms of being bad at the game..." I'm definitely not a "pro gamer", but I beat King Boo on my first try with plenty of health and time left. My criticisms of the boss have nothing to do with supposedly "being bad at the game". If anything, I thought the boss was too easy if you strip away the janky aiming and the long waiting periods (both of which are criticized by other players), which adds to the boss being anticlimactic.
- "...rather than the boss itself being “poorly designed” or anything..." Again, the example focuses on King Boo being generic, repetitive, and full of waiting instead of being unique, exciting, and challenging. These are criticisms of the boss design itself, not the player's skill level.
- "This all comes across as extremely subjective..." This is YMMV, of course it's subjective. As long as it isn't a minority opinion or just flat-out factually incorrect, it's fair game.
I sent Fireball246 a "deleting YMMV" notifier on Friday, but although they've clearly been active on TV Tropes this weekend, they haven't responded or acknowledged the PM. Since I was the last one to add the Anti-Climax Boss example, I can't undo their removal (or re-add the example with greater emphasis on "anticlimax" rather than "frustrating") without edit warring. Please advise.
resolved something wrong with the Baldur's gate 3 Origin Characters page? Videogame
Specifically this one. Checking the history of the page or the edit page, i can clearly see there is content here. But when i try to look at the page itself... it's blank.
openVisualNovel/VideoGame split on trope pages. Videogame
If I want to crosswick/add a Visual Novel example in a trope page and it doesn't have a Visual Novels folder or subpage, should I create it myself, or should I put the VN under Video Games?
In the case that the Video Games folder already contains some VNs, is it better to move them to a new Visual Novels folder, or to leave it like that and add my example there?
Edited by animuacidopenFemale protagonist from P3P Videogame
So I was on the Persona 3 YMMV section and came across this entry, edited by Key Will Jay:
- The female main character herself is rather divisive. Some love her inclusion for providing an interesting "what if" scenario (and with the main theme of Portable being the butterfly effect, this also fits) and for her personality contrasting with the male main character while still keeping the "masking feelings" theme. They may also like how some of the less interesting Social Links get replaced with S.E.E.S. members. Others see her as unnecessary and believe she ruins the game's themes of overcoming despair and accepting death with said alternate scenario and personality, and dislike how SEES is made obviously friendlier in her route (a criticism fans of older titles sometimes level at newer titles in general). The memes and exposure surrounding her also induce Hype Backlash for non-fans and those that have played the console version but do not try Portable, calling her overrated. It was bad enough that when an alleged lead regarding a theoretical remake mentioned cutting out Portable content (which turned to be reality per the reveal of Reload), the fanbase split between those calling it a worst-case scenario and those celebrating the removal.
I’m not as active in the fandom but do people really fight over the female protagonist? Because I’ve never seen much divide over her. In fact, I’ve only seen people express their disappointment of her being excluded from Reload.
Edited by Superdude96openDogwhistle on Memetic Mutation Videogame
So i was reading the YMMV page for the cancelled Video Game/Hyenas, and i came across the following example of memetic mutation:
- JOIN THE ACK- explanation At the end of the announcement trailer for the game, the slogan "JOIN THE PACK" is supposed to be displayed. However, due to the fact that You Tube puts the thumbnail of the next recommended video on the screen at the end of every video, said thumbnail ends up covering the word "PACK" and turning it into "ACK"—a common exclamation for sudden dismay or frustration—making it seem like the writer of the slogan got into some unfortunate incident and couldn't finish writing it. The abrupt cancellation of the game itself just adds to it.
The part "common exclamation for sudden dismay or frustration—making it seem like the writer of the slogan got into some unfortunate incident and couldn't finish writing it. " really bugged me, this whole sentence felt really weird. That feels terribly specific and it's overall just a clunky piece of writing.
So i decided to investigate on google for "hyenas "join the ack" " and my suspicious were validated, all of the results containing the phrase where from Kiwi Farms and 4chan, with true context of this "Ack" that the troper pretends it's a "common exclamation for sudden dismay or frustration—making" was actually a mockery of the suicide of transgender individuals, one other example of "join the ack" that i found was an steam user making a community post with this as the title and going full transphobe.
Now, the point i'm trying to make is that based on my research, there is absolutely no way KB Zheng 123 didn't know what the context of that was about, which means they intentionally and knowingly added a transphobic joke to the site and tried to pass off as a regular joke, and that requires action by the moderators, as there should be zero tolerance for transphobia and transphobic users in this site.
resolved Possible edit war, spoilers on headers Videogame
Yuusha Fan has added a spoiler tag
on a header in this character page. I removed the tag
and then he added back in anyways
. The thing he added is literally a big time spoiler. Also there is no edit reasons, already DMed him about it. Can I undo that thing? I've already undid it once and I do not want to risk an edit war myself.
openAdvice on how to proceed with a Bumblekast Page. Videogame
So, for those who don't know, The BumbleKast is a podcast run by semi-famed Sonic the Hedgehog writer Ian Flynn and a close friend of his. From its humble beginnings as a rather standard podcast, it's more recent incarnations have become more frequently about for fun questions from various Sonic fans (myself included). The sticky thing is that it also does occasionally get serious questions pertaining to Sonic lore and due to his increasingly prominent role in the franchise, his answers are frequently treated as Word of God and regularly gets cited on various Sonic trivia pages, even when he makes clear his word only goes so far. And they've had incidents with hostile tropers in the past.
For these reasons, the page would obviously get a huge disclaimer relating to how seriously it is to be taken. I'm wondering if a stricter citation rule would be warranted too. Any other advice before I go forward with it (or if I shouldn't) would be welcome.
Edited by DDRMASTERMresolved Possible Word Cruft? Videogame
I attempted to ask this in the "Is this Word Cruft?" thread
, but haven't gotten a response.
This was recently added to YMMV.Mario Kart 8:
- Let’s face it, even if you hadn’t seen the Prefix Leak or didn’t know it was in Tour, you knew Wii Rainbow Road would be the final track of the Booster Course Pass, so it wasn’t even a slight surprise upon its reveal.
While it's not wrong, as others (including myself) were indeed able to predict the course, it just comes of as crufty to me. What should I do?
Edited by ChillyBeanBAMresolved Troper camping on the Sonic Adventure 2 pages. Videogame
Troper L Fisher has been cutting multiple edits that portray GUN (one of the antagonists of Sonic Adventure 2) exactly as negatively as the game itself does, and making edits that partially exonerate them for committing mass murder ("but the Black Arms!"); they also tend to cut any mention that GUN was implied to be framing Sonic. While all this has been going on for a while, my personal last straw was them doing both of these recently, reducing the "Frame-Up" entry to a single sentence that isn't even accurate (Shadow didn't frame Sonic, at least not intentionally).
Not only is it extremely difficult to make edits about GUN on these pages, but I feel that this is treading uncomfortably close to apologia for real-world atrocities.
openPinocchiogoria Page Videogame
So, I was working on the Pinocchiogoria page and for some reason, the index located down in the bottom of the page lists the Pinocchiogoria page as its own index, despite the fact that the page itself doesn't have an index within the page. How do I fix this problem?

Just now, ttuser023 removed
some content I added
to my own WMG assumptions in WMG.MultiVersus, while at the same time adding an assumption of their own.
As far as I'm aware (since the only content concerning about WMG entries that I know thus far is the description on the main Wild Mass Guessing page), all assumptions should be welcomed regardless of how legitimate and/or outlandish it sounds, unless it doesn't seem too much like a proper theory (which even then seems to be a hard condition to reach in WMG entries). This should imply that while you can remove assumptions you had added yourself beforehand, removing those of other users wouldn't be really allowed.
Aside from sending a PM to ttuser023 so that they can be aware of this query (which I've already done), what should I do in this situation?
Edited by Inky100