Have a question about how the TVTropes wiki works? No one knows this community better than the people in it, so ask away! Ask the Tropers is the page you come to when you have a question burning in your brain and the support pages didn't help.
It's not for everything, though. For a list of all the resources for your questions, click here. You can also go to this Directory thread
for ongoing cleanup projects.
Ask the Tropers is for:
- General questions about the wiki, how it works, and how to do things.
- Reports of problems with wiki articles, or requests for help with wiki articles.
- Reports of misbehavior or abuse by other tropers.
Ask the Tropers is not for:
- Help identifying a trope. See TropeFinder.
- Help identifying a work. See MediaFinder.
- Asking if a trope example is valid. See the Trope Talk forum.
- Proposing new tropes. See TropeLaunchPad.
- Making bug reports. See QueryBugs.
- Asking for new wiki features. See QueryWishlist.
- Chatting with other tropers. See our forums.
- Reporting problems with advertisements. See this forum topic.
- Reporting issues on the forums. Send a Holler instead.
Ask the Tropers:
resolved The Ron the Death Eater example from YMMV/SonicX Anime
I wanted to make this discussion because I saw that the Ron the Death Eater example for Chris Thorndyke was deleted. Here it is.
- Ron the Death Eater: Chris Thorndyke is often viewed by fans as a selfish, spoiled brat, who's life isn't all that bad as he claims it is, and being more obsessive over Sonic than Amy is. However, Chris isn't really a bad kid. His whiny moments like in episode 49 were due to his fear of loneliness, which kept him from handling the situation of Sonic returning to his world more positively, especially since the news sprung upon him unexpectedly and was pretty impactful for him, and he was acting more traumatic and in denial than like a spoiled brat. His clinginess to Sonic and his fear of loneliness is due to being neglected by his parents since he was little, as he had to spend most of his time alone inside his huge and empty mansion without friends or siblings, making his life feel very empty and he didn't want to lose the one person who filled that void with his friendship and adventures. This also applies to when Chris shut down the portal to stop Sonic from going back to his world. Chris didn't shut down the portal because he's a spoiled brat. He did it because his emotions and fears got the best of him, that he made a reckless choice without thinking clearly.
I actually agree with this example, but it was deleted because apparently it was added by a ban evader. I am for adding it back because although Chris is not my favorite character of this show (due to some issues with how he was written), I do agree that fans do tend to demonize this kid.
resolved Edit War on Characters/UndeadUnluckGodAndTheSuperiorRules Anime
- March 17th, 2024
, Troper UnCorrectManiac changed the images for the characters "Soul", "Death", "Change", and "Language" on the Undead Unluck: God and The Superior Rules page without opening an Image Pickin thread.
- March 18th, 2024
, Troper Rebel Falcon (Myself) reverted entries.
- Edit Reason: Image changes need to be approved via an Image Pickin thread.
- March 18th, 2024
, Troper UnCorrectManiac instigated Edit War by undoing reversion, as well as changed the image for character "Luck" without opening an Image Pickin thread.
- Edit Reason: If you believe the new images do not fit the page than feel free to make an Image Pickin' thread to argue your case, but at the moment it seems silly to revert them back without doing so. Every other image on this page was added with the Image Pickin Thread being needed before hand, I don't see why these should be any different unless your actually willing to explain why in a thread. If there is already a thread for UU I'd love to take part in it, but I could not find it myself.
resolved Vocabulary Conflict Anime
A little while ago now, Dentaku made this edit
on YMMV.Bocchi The Rock for the LGBT Fanbase example.
All instances of "Sapphic" were replaced with "Lesbian", saying the former is an "old-fashioned" form of the latter. I reverted the change with the reason that Sapphic is actually an umbrella term for any woman who loves woman (which does include lesbians, but also labels like bisexual, demi, etc.)
And then just today, someone reverted it again with no edit reason.
Edited by IkeaHanopenWhich examples sound like character bashing on this page? Anime
Sailor Moon
- Usagi Tsukino can be this:
- She can be a Clingy Jealous Girl toward Mamoru and hates when other women get close to him, but she is not always faithful herself, judging by the way she stares at other boys. Apparently, only one of them needs to be 100% devoted. This is mostly in the first anime.
- In one episode, she slaps Mamoru for forgetting her birthday even though she never told him, but she doesn't know his birthday either.
- Chibi-Usa can be this as well:
- She accuses Usagi of being "ungrateful" for rejecting her mother's hot cakes (and she only rejected them because she had already eaten something and didn't even know her mother was making something for her in the first place) when she herself does not appreciate that Usagi has constantly put her own life on the line to save her from danger.
- In one episode, she gets viciously angry at Usagi after the latter unknowingly steals the pie she baked for a classmate. In other episodes, she would knowingly steal Usagi's food just for the sake of it.
- For all her talk about Usagi being an incompetent guardian, she proves to be quite incompetent at being a guardian herself once she starts her training.
- She (along with the others) criticizes Usagi for her laziness, even though she is shown to be rather lazy herself; for instance, she has Usagi carry all the groceries while she herself is empty-handed.
- Luna the Cat also has her moments:
- She gets on Usagi's case when the latter allegedly wet the bed, but she doesn't hold it against Chibi-Usa when it's revealed it was her who did it. When Usagi points this out to Luna, Luna excuses herself by telling her, "Well, you deserved it."
- When she merely thinks Diana is the lovechild of Artemis and another cat, she violently rages at him. Fast-forward to Sailor Stars, where she openly fawns over Yaten, perfectly fine with the fact that Artemis knows.
- She also had the nerve to taunt Usagi for not noticing if Chibi-Chibi was her daughter or not when she herself failed to realize that Diana was her daughter and jumped to conclusions. Usagi rightfully calls her out on this, and she quickly becomes embarrassed.
- She usually does nothing to stop Chibi-Usa from antagonizing Usagi, yet she has the nerve to call out Usagi whenever she retaliates in any way.
- Haruka Tenoh is another example:
- During the early stages of her relationship with Michiru, Haruka snarked that she didn't think a privileged rich girl like her could possibly understand a concept as bleak as the apocalypse, even though Haruka herself is a privileged rich girl.
- Before going to confront Eudial with Michiru, Haruka tells Usagi that they won't let her slow them down with her "half-baked play war". She says this, even though she and Michiru didn't have a concrete plan for finding the Talismans all season and they hadn't formed a plan for when they confronted Eudial and when they did, she quickly gained the upper hand. Had Usagi heeded their threat and stayed away, Haruka and Michiru would've died and the Death Busters would've gotten a hold on two Talismans.
- In the Stars season, she expresses distaste at the way Seiya "indiscriminately approaches women", yet Haruka has been shown to flirt with a lot of girls, including Usagi and the Inner Soldiers (even stealing a kiss from Sailor Moon in the manga/Crystal without her consent, which is a form of sexual assault) and unlike Seiya, Haruka is in a relationship (a stable one with trust from both sides, but still).
- Both her and Michiru often display Ignorant of Their Own Ignorance when it comes to criticizing the Inner Guardians. Generally, this takes the form of treating the Inner scouts as new girls who haven't had to make tough sacrifices. The truth being Venus had been active for at least a year prior to the events of season 1 (and Michiru being active at most around season 2), and all five of them dying in heroic sacrifices in the end of Season 1.
- Rei often scolds and mocks Usagi for certain traits and habits, yet she herself exhibits the exact same behavior or does it after scolding Usagi for doing so. One of the best examples of this is in the fifth season, when Usagi is shown worrying about Seiya, at which point Rei shows up and says, "Stop worrying about someone else and go study!" Ignoring that Rei is, at that moment, worrying about someone else and not studying.
openWhich of the examples are accurate and which of the examples are just character bashing? Anime
- Neon Genesis Evangelion:
- Asuka Langley Soryu often proves herself worthy of this trope:
- She always criticizes Shinji for being useless, even though she constantly screws up missions with her own stubbornness and pride.
- She blames Shinji for their botched first kiss, claiming that he's rejecting her, when it was her own fault for goading him into kissing her with convoluted and mixed signals, as well as holding Shinji's nose to prevent his breathing from tickling her, which suffocates him. All of which are very unromantic.
- She frequently calls out Shinji for being so weak and vulnerable, despite the fact that, as the series progresses, it turns out she is just as weak and vulnerable as he is, albeit trying to hide it with aggression and temper tantrums.
- She treats all the boys she's around with contempt and considers them perverts and/or idiots, yet she herself engages in very inappropriate sexual conduct with her guardian, Kaji, and consistently makes and commits idiotic decisions and actions that not only endanger her but others.
- She constantly attacks Shinji for not being "a man" or not "manning up", yet she herself is hardly what one would call "womanly".
- While it's partially true that Misato shows Parental Favoritism towards Shinji, Asuka is the last person to call her out, especially when all she wants and craves is to be praised, loved, and coddled.
- For all her complaints about no one caring for her, she herself is shown to care very little (if at all) for the well-being of her teammates, even belittling them after enduring serious trauma.
- She also has the nerve to blame others for rejecting her when she frequently and deliberately rejects, rebukes, abuses, and takes advantage of others.
- She calls Shinji selfish for wanting to save the world merely to impress his father, yet Asuka's own motive is at its core just as selfish as she does it out of a need for validation too.
- She feels entitled to and demands unconditional devotion and praise from anyone and everyone she meets. However, Asuka feels no obligation to treat others with even the slightest amount of respect and decency unless doing so will keep them under her thrall or otherwise advance her interests in some way; she treats virtually everyone around her with undisguised contempt.
- Asuka is also in no position to chew Shinji out for being afraid of getting hurt and being rejected by others, considering that she herself is afraid of getting hurt by others, and especially because she is one of the people, aside from Gendo, responsible for hurting and rejecting Shinji.
- Asuka gets angry and disgusted at Shinji for complaining, claiming that he's always blaming others, yet she is the one who whines and complains more than anyone in the entire franchise and consistently blames or shifts the blame to others for her own faults.
- Asuka Langley Soryu often proves herself worthy of this trope:
openPermission to revert entry on Manga/AirGear. Anime
On Nov. 4th, 2018, I corrected
the Official Couple entry for Air Gear due to being inaccurate to the epilogue chapter.
- Original Version:
- Corrected Version:
- Erivale's version:
- Erivale: I just read through the whole series again, and it's pretty clear that Ikki's date with Simca is two riders who respect each other meeting up for a run and the fulfilment of an old promise, as compared to the overt romantic overtones involved in Ikki's resolution with Ringo. Even during the epilogue itself, Ringo is treated as the woman in Ikki's life, not just a prospective for his affections.
With this in mind, I request permission to revert the edit without risk of inciting an Edit War.
resolved Suì-Fēng or Soi Fon? Anime
The Bleach series is no stranger to the official localization changing over time, such as the Soul Reapers' swords variously being called "Soul Cutters", "Zanpak-to", and "Zanpakutou" over the years; or Ichigo's Getsuga Tenshō being variously spelled with or without a space.
According to the official Masked and UnMasked artbooks, written by Tite Kubo himself, the Captain of Squad 2's name is supposed to be the Chinese "Suì-Fēng", which is pronounced "Soifon" in Japanese. However, VIZ Media's English localization has phonetically transcribed her name as "Soi Fon" and continues to do so even in media released after the artbooks came out — such as Bleach: Brave Souls and the Bleach: The Thousand Year Blood War Arc. However, the TV Tropes pages all refer to her as Suì-Fēng.
What seems to be the case is that the Bleach wiki has prioritized Kubo's spellings (or ones that make sense in the language the different groups use) above VIZ's official English localizations — hence them using diacritics, and spelling "Visored" instead of "Vizard" and "Vollständig" instead of "Vollsterndich" or "Voll Stern Dich"; and the Bleach TV Tropes pages seem to — intentionally or not — have followed suit. But IIRC TV Tropes' policy is to prioritize the official English localization above all others, even if it turns out that localization is incorrect — as in the case of Berserk's Band of the Hawk being properly named "Band of the Falcon" but the English localization continuing to use the incorrect translation, with TV Tropes following suit.
What should be done in this case?
openWeblinks to facebook and image hosting websites Anime
Hi everyone,
While reading the Nightmare Fuel page of Kimetsu no Yaiba
, I encountered an entry in the "Red Light District Arc" (third bullet point, second sub-bullet) which contains two weblinks: one to a facebook page, and one to what I guess is an image hosting website (well, your guess is as good as mine regarding a website called "sportshub" being that kind of website). Both links are used to show screens of what the character looks like in the anime.
From Weblinks Are Not Examples, it seems it is frowned upon to use links like that. Moreover, the entry itself is written well enough to not necessitate those images. Thus I'm contacting tropers to ask if I should remove these links or leave them as is. I know there is a tolerance for some weblinks (namely when linking to songs - and even then, broken You Tube links happen quite often), but I'm not quite sure this qualify.
EDIT: There is another instance of this kind of link a little further actually, under the "Chapter 92-94/S 2 E 10:" bullet point of the same folder.
Edited by NonoRobotopenKingdom name changes Anime
Hey there. So I was thinking of making large-scale changes to add in more information to the Kingdom characters page regarding English voice actors as well as switching over to Chinese pronunciations as the primary way of referring to stuff. Anyone object to this? My reasoning is that not only does the English dub of the anime use Chinese pronunciations, the story itself is set during a seminal period fo Chinese history, the Warring States. As a Chinese person it feels a bit weird to see all these historical figures from my cultural background being referred to with Japanese pronunciation.
openFolders/Sections on the Shonen Jump page Anime
I'm not going to mince words on it: I think the Shonen Jump page is a complete mess, namely all of the folders and sections in the middle of the page. IMO there's way too many folders, too many gigantic folders, a bunch of weird placements that don't make intuitive sense, a bizarre Adaptations section, etc. I don't know when exactly this happened (based on the Discussion page this has been sitting like this since ~2019) but I do remember the older version of this page from years back and while it wasn't necessarily perfect it was significantly more usable than the page in its current state.
I'm bringing this up here to at the very least draw some attention to it and get some responses and feedback on what should be done before proceeding on anything. Cleaning it up would be quite a bit of work for me to do by myself/on a single go so I would appreciate any help with it, and I'd like to get some consensus on a few things with it as well. Biggest part would be addressing some of the sister mags; while most of the folders are IMO superfluous I do think some are at least worth highlighting given the overlaps involved (for example Viz's Shonen Jump app pulls from Jump+, Jump Square, and V-Jump).
openAss Pull on Jojo Part 6 ymmv Anime
There has been one user argumenting the use of this on the ymmv page of JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: Stone Ocean, where they provided arguments for how the plot points that were put on asspull made sense, but later reverted them back because of ymmv.
I find myself confused, cause the points that the user rises sound compelling enough to warrant a removal from them, but idk if most users are willing to agree.
open Edit War on Love of Kill Anime
I swore to myself I was going to avoid this page from now on but I need to report myself and another troper for edit-warring. Back in January I added the following example to Love of Kill (and admittedly with an unnecessarily rude edit reason because I was furious at having wasted my lunch break watching it, thinking it would be similar to SPY×FAMILY).
- Sexual Extortion: Song (AN: male lead) spends the first episode (or first few manga chapters) extorting a "date" from Chateau (AN: female lead) in exchange for information she needs for her day job and only manages to not actually rape her because she finally musters the nerve to actually leave the hotel room he takes her to at the end of it. He still manages to force a hug on her before she gets on the train to go home.
This example was first modified due to a factual error in the original version (perfectly okay), and then deleted outright by Ominae (not okay). I re-added it, and then immediately realized I was edit-warring and posted on the discussion tab
. I fully admit I blew it.
Without checking the discussion tab or taking note of the legal definition of sexual harassment, Ominae removed the example again.
I freely admit that I was unnecessarily rude and have an irrational hatred for this series (I consider it to be the best fantasy for incels since Redo Of Healer), but everything in the example is factually correct.
openEdit warring in YMMV Dragon Ball Super Anime
I removed a bunch of entries from the YMMV page of the Granolah's arc from Dragon Ball Super, since they were violations of policy (adding a Broken Base entry just days after the arc had ended, for example, alongside a It Was His Sled entry, and an Audience-Alienating Ending entry when the entire arc is days old). I also removed some entries that read as too much complaining instead of actually showing an audience reaction, particularly concerning Narm, Ass Pull, Franchise Original Sin and Fan-Disliked Explanation.
troper AMassiveOvereditor
(Which originally added most of these entries) added a bunch of entries back, with the exception of the entries that negated policy. What should be done in this case? I feel that rather than reflecting the views of the audience itself, the page just merely centers on the views of this specific troper. Not to say that there isn't examples of Narm and Ass Pull (I left some of those and after some days I thought that maybe I should have added back the Black Frieza entry in Ass Pull), but I feel that the page as a whole is too negative, which is a common problem in the Dragon Ball Super manga pages.
openCan I give the BECK manga its own set of pages? Anime
I'm talking about Beck. It's currently sharing sub-pages with the musician Beck, as well as an unrelated movie. Being a diehard fan of this series, I'd like to make the usual suite of pages for the manga/anime (Character page, Funny, Heartwarming, YMMV etc.), to avoid sharing with the musician and movie. The BECK manga has an official alternate title, "BECK - Mongolian Chop Squad" or just "BECK - MCS", and I was thinking if I could just go for it. Would I be allowed to do this myself? Thank you in advance!
Edited by pottskiopenFaux Action Girls in Yu-Gi-Oh! Anime
Jack Pot 21 has been continuously removing the Faux Action Girl entries in the different Yu-Gi-Oh! pages throughout the years, even after multiple users have been re-editing, providing justifications and reworking entries so that they show what the trope entails.
- Yu-Gi-Oh!: Mai Kujaku/Valentine is setup as a powerful duelist that manages to defeat Rex Raptor (the Japanese Championship runner-up) off-screen. However, she never manages to back-up said reputation, losing all of her major on-screen duels with the exception of one against Jean-Claude Magnum (a one-off mook) and one against Joey (who was thoroughly exhausted by his duel with Valon in the same episode) in the Doma arc.
- Yu-Gi-Oh! 5D's: Akiza is an interesting example of this. She has a fearsome reputation as the "Black Rose Witch", a ferocious and powerful psychic duelist that enjoys inflicting pain on others. This is eventually revealed to be a facade created by Akiza as a response to being treated as a monster. As such, she goes from easily stomping her opponents and nearly defeating Yusei in the Fortune Cup, to losing in less than two turns to Andore in the WRGP. She also loses her psychic powers without much of a reason.
- Yu-Gi-Oh! ZEXAL: Rio Kamishiro is presented as The Ace that is both academically and sports-gifted, with many characters expressing awe at how competent and scary she is. However, she never quite manages to leave the shadow of her brother Shark, mostly serving as a source for his character drama and getting hospitalized, kidnapped, possessed, thrown-off a cliff, hospitalized (again) and finally killed by characters that just wanted to hurt and/or attract Shark's attention, with Rio never able to fight back once.
- Yu-Gi-Oh! VRAINS:
- Blue Angel/Aoi Zaizen is one of the most prominent Charisma Duelists in Link VRAINS, presented with a bubbly and energetic idol persona, but willing to prove herself as a duelist to her brother and Yusaku, and also getting multiple avatar makeovers related to her development, as if setting up a big character moment. Unfortunately, she always loses her duels against plot-prominent villains (and the protagonists), with her loss to Specter being presented as particularly humiliating. This is possibly lampshaded by the characters in the final episode, as Kusanagi thanks Aoi and the others for saving his brother and Link VRAINS, with Aoi admitting that she actually didn't do anything.
- Emma Besho/Ghost Girl is presented as a skillful hacker and bounty hunter hired by Akira Zaizen to gather information about Playmaker. She's actually quite competent at collecting data, spying on others and making her way through Link Vrains; it's the "bounty hunter" part of her description that she always fails at, with her only win in the entirety of VRAINS being against Brave Max. This is particularly ironic, given that her Altergeist deck was one of the most competitive decks ever featured in the anime.
Jack Pot 21 has been removing any entries regarding the franchise since some years ago with many shifting justifications. First it was that the entries centered around winrates; then when the entries were adjusted to not focus on winrates, he added the justification that "examples for this entry can be very subjective", but I can't help but feel that this is agenda-driven edition, and that he feels that the entries are attacks on the characters themselves rather than assessments of how the (male) staff has issues writing women, which is something that the YGO fanbase has acknowledged over and over.
When his original argument for the removal of the entries was
"Having what’s personally deem as an “unimpressive victory” or because they don’t have enough duels doesn’t mean a female character a Faux Action Girl. Aki for example has a good win/loss ratio, yet she’s labeled as one simply for being nicer in the second season, ignoring the fact she only had one loss and a few Action Girl moments outside of duels."
Which seems to me a very suspect justification shift, as he went from claiming that "not having enough duels doesn't mean a female character is a Faux Action Girl" to saying that "Rio's examples don't even include anything duel-related" which are two contradicting statements.
Also, I quote one of the opening statements in the Faux Action Girl definition
"She has a well-grounded reputation as a strong fighter in her field but always fails miserably in the line of battle. Her talents and skills are well-known to fellow characters but for some strange reason, they're never seen by the viewers outside of perhaps A Day in the Limelight episode"
YGO is a shonen battle anime, in which the fights are card-game duels. Most of these examples include characters that have strong reputations in dueling, but they always fail miserably. They even get the "Talents and skills are well known to fellow characters but they're never seen outside of perhaps a Day in the Limelight episode", which is particularly glaring with Rio Kamishiro, who only got a character focus episode before going back to serving as a source of character drama for Shark.
Addendum: It seems like Jack Pot 21 has already had multiple issues through the wiki by attempting to tweak Yu-Gi-Oh pages to show what only he thinks are valid examples despite evidence to the contrary, which I believe is something that should be taken into account here.
Edited by Edgar81539

Another user and I are having a disagreement over whether or not he constitutes the trope, at least when he was at his prime strength. My argument comes from the fact that, as a character, he was the right hand of the former strongest man, Gol D. Roger, and that he often leverages his reputation as a warrior of legendary renown to bluff enemies out of battles. While he's no longer at his peak, at one point he was decidedly in the running as being the strongest.
I also pointed out that the trope itself does not come from a defined character tier list, but rather, someone who is considered in story as being a contender for the strongest. Additionally, I noted that other characters (both in One Piece and not) have the trope applied to them despite there being other contenders for the title of "the" strongest.
What are everyone's thoughts on the matter?
Edited by Windrays