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openJust removed this from Gamebooks
For the record, I've removed this entry from Gamebooks.
- Listened to in sequential order, Kendrick Lamar’s album “DAMN” is about the protagonist coming to terms with his own flaws and learning to love himself despite them. If played backwards, it’s about his descent into madness and self-loathing.
I mean, seriously?
openPossibly Biased Editing on the Glee YMMV Page. Live Action TV
lakingsif edited and removed a couple entries on the YMMV page for Glee, claiming that they were "defending homophobia" even though I honestly fail to see how (I'm bi and thus part of the LGBT community myself; there's no way that I would genuinely try to defend homophobia). They were also one of the main editors for the TV Tropes Glee recaps (which, if I'm not mistaken, have actually popped up here on Ask The Tropers a couple times), and it's clear from the tone of these recaps, as well as some of the edits previously mentioned, that they really hate the character Finn Hudson, usually choosing to interpret his actions in the worst possible way and also consistently downplaying the flaws of characters like Quinn and especially Santana. Their edits seem really shoehorned and complain-y, with things like referring to Finn as "acting like the hetero savior of the gays", and many entries were deleted without any real explanation. I know it's a YMMV page and it's for more subjective reactions and all, but I feel like this is a little excessive.
Here are the edits in question: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.Glee#edit26500052
openForeign language video examples: are they allowed?
I have video example idea that I feel demonstrates a trope very well, but it’s from a French TV show that has no official translation in English, and it’s a dialogue related trope. My questions are:
- Am I allowed to use it in the first place?
- If so, am I allowed to use an existing fansub of the show?
- If not, should I add subtitles myself?
- If it shouldn't have subtitles, should I put the translation in the description?
Edited by arimothereindeeropenEntry Butchering on Shadowrun Storytime Web Original
I remember Shadowrun Storytime having a full on character list and funny/nightmare fuel list, as well as a few others, but now they're all gone and the page itself is unindexed. Is this data loss or has someone gone and butchered it?
openBatman Beyond videos Western Animation
A lot of the video examples for Batman Beyond specifically come from Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker. However, the trope page for Return of the Joker does not itself have video examples. Shouldn't the videos be attributed to Return of the Joker instead of/in addition to the main series?
open MainstreamObscurity Western Animation
YMMV.Sonic The Hedgehog Sat AM had this added by Eagle70:
"Mainstream Obscurity: [[invoked]] This is a Sonic The Hedgehog cartoon, the first one to ever enter production, and arguably the most ambitious. It was also put under strict mandates and heavily preempted in most markets, and cancelled in a network buyout, only to have the franchise completely change gears in 1996, leaving this cartoon looking like an In Name Only adaptation. Despite the popularity of it's long running comic book spinoff and the show itself getting significant
critical
acclaim
from most reviews, the cartoon itself is hardly watched by most of the fandom. Additionally, the notriously broken Sonic fandom has elements that tend to hate the show and it's characters for not resembling more modern titles, despite not really knowing anything about the show beyond the premise."
I feel like this could be shorted significantly and with less potholes and bashing at the end, but am not entirely sure what to do. What do you guys think?
EDIT: Also it kinda is an In Name Only adaptation; per InNameOnly.Western Animation, AoSTH was the closest to the games until Sonic X.
" Besides the overall theme of nature vs. machinery, the only things Sonic the Hedgehog (Sat AM) has in common with the games are Sonic, Tails (who was Demoted to Extra), the rings (which here act as a Deus ex Machina device), Buzzbombers (which only appeared in the pilot), and Robotnik (who looked quite different from his appearance in the games and was substantially more fearsome than any other interpretation of the character). This does not stop it from being one of the more highly regarded Sonic adaptations. "
Edited by lalalei2001openHow many wicks does a page need before it gets removed from PagesNeedingWicks?
So, I have been crosswicking under-used tropes so they can be remved from Pages Needing Wicks and I have wondered how many wicks does page need to not end up on the list. In the past, 16 wicks was what the page said was the cutoff point but that part has since been removed. I personally like remove tropes when they reach the 20-30 wick mark.
EDIT: Wait, According to the page itself, anything that is within the standard ranking (24-56 for tropes older than 3 years old and 12-14 for new tropes) on wick needs to be removed. So I guess that is the answer..
Edited by MacronNotesopenFar too much detail
Last year, we decided to remove the creepy, overly detailed examples about Krystal.
Well, when I noticed that they are still at VaporWear.Video Games and Chainmail Bikini, I checked the histories for these pages and for Super Smash Bros. - Assist Trophies and it turns out that no one ever did. And now Eagle70 has taken upon himself to make sure that they stay there. Note that Eagle
and the person who originally added these entries
have very different edit patterns, so they are very unlikely to be the same person.
In short, should those examples be deleted, be rewritten, or stay as they are?
Edited by ChytusopenScreamer Trailer description issue?
I read through the trope description, and...it's not the best in my opinion. It's self-demonstrating, of course, but it keeps giving me that early website trope description vibe which I'm not a big fan of. What do y'all think about it?
openUndermined By Reality misuse?
Trivia.Star Wars The Clone Wars
- Undermined By Reality: The slogan Clone Wars Saved, shown at the end of the 2018 SDCC trailer and used frequently afterwards, is undermined by the fact that the show only needed 'saving' because Disney itself unceremoniously canceled the series mid-production shortly after acquiring Star Wars.
Undermined By Reality Is when the Aesop/messages of the work is contradicted by the real life happenings of the creators. I don’t think an advertising campaign is an Aesop/message of the work and it looks like complaining when Disney is reversing what the entry is criticizing them for. Thoughts?
Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaughtopen Long list of ways to spot a FakeCharity
Fake Charity has a long series of bullets about Real Life fake charities, added by a mix of tropers rather than a single person. It reads to me like beyond the scope of the site, plus it's not about examples of the trope but instead in general. Checking to see if that's the read other people have before bringing out the ax and fire.
- Ways you can spot a fake (or potentially fake) charity:
- It is not registered with your local/state/provincial/federal government.
- Charity watchdog sites either do not list it, or have listed it as suspicious.
- A representative who is collecting for the charity either cannot or will not answer any questions you have.
- They ask for donations using wire transfers, cash, money orders, prepaid cards and the like.
- They don't provide either a mailing address or a physical address, or they do, but it's fake.
- They don't provide a phone number, or they do, but it's fake, or no one ever answers.
- You're made to feel guilty, or like you're selfish/a bad person/etc. if you don't want to donate, or don't want to donate now.
- A collector either cannot or will not supply identification, or their identification is bogus.
- They keep hounding you for donations, even after you've told them to stop calling or sending you mail.
- Their website looks almost exactly like that of a legitimate website, but the details concerning where to donate and whom to donate to are different.
- It purports to help a local fire or police department or hospital, but the actual fire department/police department/hospital has no knowledge of this charity or fundraiser.
- They solicit donations from you via email campaigns. Generally speaking, real charities don't solicit donations through email. (This could be a variation of the classic 419 Scam.)
- They ask for donations via store or online gift cards or online currencies such as iTunes. Once again real charities don't solicit donations in this way.
- They ask for wiring of money through a wiring service like Western Union. Once again this is also not typically a way that a real charity would solicit money.
- You get an email asking for financial help for a sick child (or occasionally adult), often sent as a Chain Letter, and (more importantly) with no information (such as an address, whether the child in question is being tended to at a hospital or at home, a diagnosis, a prognosis, perhaps the name of a doctor or hospital, etc.), but what is included is information on where to donate money to, usually via wire transfer.
- They don't accept material donations like food, razor blades, or clothing even when they say they intend to use the money on such items. note While many real charities also don't accept material donations, the legit ones will usually provide helpful information to other charities that do.
- Of course, what can muddy the waters here is that even legitimate charities have been officially censured for the "hard sell" tactics used by paid agents; one of the most respectable names in the business, Oxfam, and several other big names, were publicly exposed by the UK's Charity Commission (the overseeing body) for their use of "chuggers" note the disparaging term "charity mugger", used for paid agents soliciting donations and for their use of third-party call centres and agents who were paid by commission and were not too scrupulous over making sales. The results were horrendous
. the chuggers used both the inculcating-guilt scam and the persistent nuisance calling of people who had already told them not to.
- Various "watchdog" sites such as Charity Navigator
, CharityWatch
, and BBB Wise Giving Alliance
rate real-life nonprofits on their transparency, accountability, and efficient use of funds.
- One common complaint about crowdfunding websites such as GoFundMe
is that it's very easy for any scammer to post a sob story and receive donations. The sites do have fraud reporting tools, but they also can be lax about following up on how people use the donations they receive.
- Of course, this is every bit as illegal as conning people out of their money by any other means, and people have gotten jail time for it
when they've been caught.
- Of course, this is every bit as illegal as conning people out of their money by any other means, and people have gotten jail time for it
- Be wary of charities or fundraisers you've never heard of that pop up all of a sudden in the wake of a natural disaster or some other type of humanitarian crisis. While some of them are legitimate, at least an equal number of them are the result of Con Artists looking to take advantage of the chaos, and take advantage of the generosity of people who want to help. And you might not be able to tell which is which until it's too late. If you want to make donations towards disaster relief organizations, your best bet is to find a reputable charity through one of the aforementioned "watchdog" sites.
openNot an example of Idiot Plot? Western Animation
From Idiot Plot - Animated Films:
- The entire Final Battle of Incredibles 2 could have been shortened considerably if not outright avoided, allowing the capture the Big Bad before they fled the ship and preventing the entire crash, had anyone actually targeted the mind-controlling goggles during the fights. It's at least a bit understandable with the kids given their age and lack of experience, but the adults really should have tried just plucking them off instead of running or fighting until the goggles happened to fall off. Ironically the only character who does do this is Jack-Jack, entirely by accident, when reaching for his mom, showing how swift and effortless it really would have been.
In reality, adults did try to remove mind-controlling goggles from other supers as soon as they're freed (of course, with the difficulty of taking away a mind-controlling device from an enhanced human who fights back), and they manage to remove them, they don't just "happen to fall off". It's true that in the previous scenes kids didn't try to remove the goggles, but the entry itself suggests that their age and lack of experience can be a forgiving factor.
Since it's not A story driven entirely by all the characters being idiots that would otherwise take less than five minutes to resolve, but a specific scene, wouldn't that count at best as a Downplayed Idiot Ball, and perhaps not even that?
Bumping because the entry was readded. Edited by gc10
openBase Breaking Character, Persona 5 Royal. Videogame
The following contains Royal spoilers. You have been warned.
I just noticed this Paragraph from Persona 5 that seriously bugs me:
- Kasumi Yoshizawa was inevitably going to rouse a divide. While some appreciate the steps that were taken to prevent a repeat of the backlash garnered for Marie and see her as a decent character in her own right. Others find that she’s a largely irrelevant character to both the main plot and the third semester where she takes center stage. To some, she's worse than Marie since Marie still enriched the story, and she still managed to come across as friends with the other members of the Investigation Team outside of the protagonist. Sumire, on the other hand, has little to no interaction with the Phantom Thieves who aren't called Joker or Akechi note She does have one scene where Futaba is included, but some would argue that even then it's still about Joker than actually introducing Sumire to a teammate making her feel isolated amongst the Phantom Thieves. Even those who love Sumire tend to agree with her detractors that she was made playable way too late in the game and suffers for it as she exists within a bubble that only floats down whenever Joker's involved. Some see her as being forced into a preexisting story and adds nothing new to the story or to the Phantom Thieves. note Her backstory has been compared to Futaba's. Only this time around really she was responsible for someone's death. Her unhealthy way of coping isn't unlike Yusuke turning a blind eye to Maderame's abuse of his pupils. Her getting angry at the expectations bestowed upon her was Makoto's breaking point. Even her teaching Joker some gymnastics comes across as odd to some since Joker was already performing gymnastic feats without her assistance in the base game and before their Confidant even started. There's also some debate on her Character Development. She either ends the game as a completed person living as Sumire, or she's still living in the shadow of the real Kasumi and Joker at the same time note Those who go for the latter feel that she doesn’t behave any different as Sumire than she does as Kasumi and Sumire goes right back to emulating Kasumi's look at the end of her Confidant (which itself causes some minor debate; Is she just honoring her sister? Is there a better way to do that without making it seem like she's regressing?). Meanwhile, living in Joker's shadow ties right back into the fact that she barely has a life outside of him. And that her preexisting self-esteem issues are just gone when she gets confirmation that Kasumi saw her as an equal and rival the whole time. What can make matters worse is how one feels about Maruki's inclusion, whether or not it's better or worse than how Sumire was handled. Even her entire relationship with Joker is debated upon. It's either one of the more natural Confidants, or Joker is forced into caring about her and is completely out of character around her. note Some have noticed that the player is rarely given the chance to snark at her or criticize her like they can to virtually every other person he comes in contact with. And that her status as the Implied Love Interest is constantly being shoved down players throats note She basically admits to loving Joker at Rank 8, a lot of her designs are meant to mirror Joker, and she's the only character Joker has a Showtime with besides Akechi and arguably hurts her Character development.
I have also been issued a request on Base Breaker Cleanup
to review this.
Basically:
- Many of the arguments in this entry are heavily biased and flawed, for a person who was well-versed with Royal's storyline, at the least
- Guessing and Alternative Character Interpretation that can simply be rebuked within in-game dialogue
- The flaws of this character, as far as where it was left largely unambiguous, is that she barely has any interaction with other PT members and no involvement other than the last month of game, something which has been unambiguously agreed upon. It belongs exactly in They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character.
- Character is largely well received in the fandom unlike most entries there.
I've been removed the paragraph for now, if anyone else adds it the next time, I leave it alone until further notice, because someone added it back earlier on and I don't want this to degenerate into an edit war.
Edited by Mr-ex777openPossible Character-centric Entry Pimping? Videogame
This has been a thing that bugged me for a while, but does anyone else feel that a lot of the entries under Lunafreya's folder on the Final Fantasy XV - Other Allies page come off as shoehorning? Especially considering that while she's a divisive Base-Breaking Character rather than The Scrappy, the part where she's considered to be a Flat Character with minimal screentime is largely unanimous and the divide comes down to whether she was always a shallow and uninteresting character or whether she was originally a rounder character whose depth was all cut out of the game. Hence most of the entries (which were made before the novel that finally fleshes her out was released) come on the back of what appears to be Fan Wank extrapolations rather than supported by the primary text of the game, considering she has so little dialogue, even less interacting with others.
A few of them come from the Kingsglaive movie, which is where the bulk of her screentime and character depth come from, but is also known for being basically a different character from her in-game portrayal. But others seem to be attempting to spin something meaningful out of offhand comments from the flatter in-game depiction that don't actually manifest meaningfully into tropes. I personally don't remember a lot of these entries from when I played it, and at best some of these even appear to be the result of the rather chaotic and inconsistent promotion for the game that often contradicted itself.
Edited by AlleyOopopenInconsistencies on two different Useful Notes pages
I noticed that two Useful Notes pages contradict each other. UsefulNotes.Fascism claims that The Klan might have the distinction of being the first fascist movement:
Ku Klux Klan might have the distinction of being the first fascist movement. Born out of a reaction against the Reconstruction after The American Civil War, it aimed at recreating the old order of the South by putting the freed slaves and the carpetbaggers in their place (which should be understood as lynching and intimidation).
The importance of religion in shaping the American view of self also meant that Christianity (understood as Protestantism) played a much larger role within the Ku Klux Klan; they combine the religious views of falangism (but pro-Protestant instead of pro-Catholic) with the racial views of national socialism.
But UsefulNotes.Ku Klux Klan specifically denies this idea and argues against it:
What should we do about this discrepancy? Considering Wikipedia takes the position that the Klan was not fascist (the white-robed bastards are conspicuously absent from their fascism template), I think we should replace the bit about them with a discussion of the Silver Legion of America
.
openPlaying With Page
So I was reading the playing with page for Good Old Fisticuffs and most of it was about a Boxing Battler or a person who incorporates boxing in their fighting against a karateka to illustrate the trope and how it can be played with. The problem is that the Good Old Fisticuffs trope is specifically about a brawler with no established fighting style being better than those who trained in a fighting style or martial art, and boxing is technically a fighting style if not a martial art itself. Normally I'd just edit it myself but it makes up so much of the page that I'm at a loss at what to do.
openA repository of spam
On a glance at the largely abandoned liveblogs section, specifically the last page, https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/lbs.php?target_title=&target_group=&p=16
, It seems apparent that a good chunk of that particular page, at least half, seem to be comprised entirely of spambots posting and replying to one another. This is apparent just looking at the titles of some of these liveblogs, or looking briefly at their content. Notable among them include one apparently advertising some herbal scam labled "Vietnam medical material", as well as several from 2018 which are fairly self evident on looking at them.

Just ran across this at the end of the Main.Jerkass page (here's the history
):
There may be some offensive language (i.e. "punk" being changed to "you faggot") in there. What's the best possible way we can do about this?
Edited by gjjones