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Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
openWall-of-texty example on Atelier Ryza
Insane Pryomaniac has added this to YMMV.Atelier Ryza Ever Darkness And The Secret Hideout:
- Contested Sequel: While many new players introduced to Atelier were very happy with the game, the split among fans of the previous games in the series is significantly more divisive. While most admit Ryza does have quite a few positive points like the improved graphics, great tutorials, a great new art style, and an intuitive node based crafting system that make it a decent game, many also claim the game fails on some of the innovations it attempted. The story is very short with minimal character interactions that are a series tradition (there are more scenes of the individual characters bonding in the first several or so hours of Atelier Sophie or the Dusk games than in the entirety of Ryza), less enemy types present than previous games that were already criticized for their lack of enemy variety, the ease of duplication and gardening with infinite gems rendering the post game boring, a split opinion on if the ATB battle system is amazing or awful, near universal hatred of the CC item system, easy difficulty of even harder modes, massive simplification of the traits system, the contrast of Lent's subplot with the rest of the game and how it poorly resolves itself halfway through the game, lack of an English Dub, and rampant Complacent Gaming Syndrome over most stats, traits, the usual DLC problems the series has faced in recent years with the extra episodes for this game being very short but expensive, and usable items being fairly useless compared to just building items with massive skill damage stacking leaving little options for the player compared to previous entries. While this doesn't mean the game is hated, the fanbase at large seems to see it as more of a flawed first step into making an Atelier game that could be more than a Cult Classic and gain widespread success than a total improvement on the past titles.
Methinks it looks like it's piling on every single criticism that could be made about the game, making it pretty hard to read. Anyone agree? Because if so, I'd be able to make it much more concise.
openEdit warring and weird message? Film
So on https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/YMMV/PatchAdams
, I deleted a Funny moments entry because it was worded awkwardly, lacking in context, and for some reason I mistakenly thought the page already had a "heartwarming" section. HarleyQuinnIsGreat (who I guess entered it in the first place) reverted it back with an added " % % Do not delete the above entry without consulting someone first," and sent the deleting YMMV notifier while telling me not to delete without consulting them. (MOD EDITED TO REMOVE PM TEXT; ADDED SUMMARY INSTEAD)
At this point, I feel like the edit itself isn't really the problem here.
Edited by nombretomadoopenBan evader DisneyAnimefan95 back again
I'm quite certain that persistent ban evader Disney Animefan 95 who has been bounced several times before, including just last week
, is back once again as ThePhantomPimpernel78
. They reinstated several edits that the previously bounced account COkamaAnime85
did, and the account itself popped up shortly after C Okama Anime 85 was bounced.
openProblematic behavior from Thetropemaster101
So I recently got a PM from Thetropemaster 101 wherein he more or less ordered me to make some specific edits to a bunch of Star Wars character pages, and I believe that I'm not the only one since I noticed a few edit reasons throughout the index mentioning that they were being done based on "PM suggestions."
This was particularly notable since he did so through an edit notifier for an edit I made on Seven Deadly Sins, which had nothing to do with Star Wars (while I do edit the Star Wars pages frequently, it comes across as fairly stalkerish).
Searching for him on ATT I found numerous threads going back up to two years detailing all kinds of problematic behavior, including:
- Edit-warring
- Serial tweaking
- Consistent issues with formatting and ZCEs, as well as confirmed sockpuppeting (notably, he posted a total of seven replies in a row from two different accounts denying it and begging to have his temporary edit ban lifted)
As well as creating a bunch of strange
, complainy
ATT threads and a very weird personal page where he describes himself as "the best troper on this website" and expresses a desire to be a moderator.
openShout-out memes: valid MemeticMutation entries or not?
Recently, two Memetic Mutation entries for My Next Life As A Villainess All Routes Lead To Doom were removed with the edit reason "I don't think those really qualify since they are memes from other works, not ones caused by this.". The removed memes are basically story-appropriate twists on famous quotes from The Dark Knight and Untitled Goose Game.
Since references to other works found in the work itself have always had their place on the wiki, it feels a little strange to see things being removed on the basis that they are basically the fandom doing the same thing. I thought it might be a good idea to see what others think.
Edited by NazetrimeopenWillow from Buffy the Vampire Slayer should be listed as Unintentionally Unsympathetic Live Action TV
I know she's already listed as a Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds but I think she should also be listed under UU.
For starters, she attempts to destroy the world and her friends just because some killed her girlfriend. To top it all off, she hocks herself up on dark magic despite knowing the implications. It's not for her to decide if the world needs to be destroyed or not yet the show paints her as a tragic figure despite her attacking her friends. To me, she comes off as petty and traitorous and the forgivenss and redemption she gets is completely undeserved
Edited by deathnoteFNBOI58openDefusing possible edit war.
Woodsy Grabass 2019 re-added this HateSink entry
on Characters.MCU Kilgrave after I first rewrote it, and then cut it when someone familiar with the show suggested In the Hate Sink thread that the author intent was too ambiguous to confirm that Kilgrave was meant to be despised above all else.
- Hate Sink: He's both the primary villain of the piece and this trope. The man is so despicable, and he destroys so many lives, that the main draw of the story is waiting for him to lose. This is drawn out by the existence of Hope as a Damsel in Distress that needs to be saved at the cost of sparing Kilgrave, but she specifically kills herself so that his destruction can become the sole motivation of our Main Characters. It doesn't help the fact that his entire character is a portrayal of Rape Culture, Toxic Masculinity and Male Entitlement.
Furthermore, the entry as reverted possibly violates the Rule of Cautious Editing Judgement by using political buzzwords, instead of the straightforward and buzzword free entry that I rewrote before I cut it.
- Hate Sink: Kilgrave is presented as an immature, misogynistic, possessive creep and sexual predator, as well as a petty, entitled, hedonistic individual who regularly mistreats other people for his amusement. Any superficial charm Kilgrave has only serves to underscore his unpleasantness.
If Woodsy has proof that Kilgrave, above all else, was meant to be hated, I want them to discuss further. Evidently I forgot to link to the HS thread in my edit reason the last time.
Edited by SkyCat32open What's that trope? damage equals worthy of love Film
What is the trope in which an ordinary guy proves his worthiness to an extraordinary girl by taking extraordinary physical risks, and often losing in a fight? It's not "loser gets the girl" because that requires both guys to fight over her, and defeat makes her realize that the winner never really interested her. This is more like the girl does not really know she reciprocates his love, until she sees the amount of physical pain and damage he is willing to absorb in their shared cause. It may be the prelude to the "violently protective girlfriend" but not always. Is there something like the "Steve Trevor Effect" from the Wonder Woman (2016) movie? Except in that, they hook up before he blows himself up, but that causes her to (posthumously) forgive him for their fight. Any ideas? It's not "weakness turns her on" because we are not talking about a character who is congenitally weak in body or personality, but usually he is in some way inferior to her - less educated, less intelligent, less trained, whatever. Often, the guy takes a beating in an attempt to serve her in some way, protection, rescue attempt, something. This usually leads to the moment when the girl realizes that the guy who she has been somehow looking upon as insufficient is suddenly recognized as worthy. Several books do this, including Patrick Ness' "The Knife of Never Letting Go" and Brittany Cavallaro's "Charlotte Holmes" series. Any ideas?
openAccidental deletion of examples off Trope Page -- need advice
Hi everyone.
Got a PM a couple hours ago from a Troper, who said a Tropes page ("Vomit Discretion Shot") that I had added an example to had apparently gotten half its examples deleted. They asked why I did this for no reason.
I wasn't aware of it then, but I'm pretty sure this happened around the time I started having very slow saving updates, either via connectivity at my end or a problem with the site (not sure which). One of the pages (I think it was this one) froze when I tried to save it, then finally went through with the last folder presenting itself as not complete. I added [[/folder]] at the bottom and saved, which created a normal folder. My guess is the deletion happened then, but I can't say for sure.
I replied to the PM, explained what had happened, and asked if I should do anything to try and correct the problem or not. Haven't heard back yet. This potentially being a big problem, I figured I should wait a couple hours for a reply, then follow up in timely fashion if I didn't hear back.
I've only been active here for a couple weeks, and you folks may understandably not want me trying to fix the issue. Could someone let me know how to proceed? I'll be happy to try and fix it myself, but want someone's okay before I do so.
Sorry about this happening.
Thanks!
open I have a question Western Animation
You see this image right here?
[1]
◊
Yeah, what if Princess Bubblegum didn’t change her outfit like normal, she just presses a button that rapidly changes her outfit?
Like this for example:
Princess Bubblegum: (Presses the button: her outfit morphs into her sleeping gown with her hair in ties) “No” (Presses it again: her outfit morphs into a pink shirt with pink pants, as well as her hair tied in a bun) “No” (Presses it once again: her outfit morphs into her pink sweatsuit with pink jeans, oh, and her bun got undone, causing her hair to grow back to it’s original length) “No” (Keeps pressing the button multiple times, morphing her outfit as well as saying “No” every time, as well as changing her hair style in the process. She also got de-aged to her 13 year old self, and got aged back up to her 18 year old self when she pressed the button. Her outfit morphed into: Her light blue dress, her baby blue swan dress, her cupcake dress, her dull pink dress, her short dress, her purple pouch dress, her shirt dress, her pink winter hoodie, her 2nd short dress, her party dress, her yellow shirt, her blue lab coat with her witch hat, her Web Weirdos dress, her white and purple dress, and finally, her blue silky dress) (Presses it again: her outfit morphs into her winter sweater dress) “Ugh! No!” (Presses the button one more time: her outfit morphs into her lab outfit) “Yes! There we go! Finally! Now... off to the lab!”
Edited by ILoveCrossoversopen Edit warring over including Deadpool on the MCU franchise page. Film
Alright, I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, but here it goes... There's been some controversy on the Marvel Cinematic Universe franchise page regarding the addition of one untitled Deadpool film, which has been confirmed to be in early development by trades and anyone worth a damn. The problem is that Deadpool co-creator Rob Liefeld has recently stated something to the contrary, and that's spawned a ton of clickbait headlines and the spread of misinformation.
Here's the thing - the only person who says that nothing is happening with a character that brought in $1.5B in global ticket sales is Rob Liefeld, who is not part of the Marvel Studios picture at all. He is not being included in conversations about the next movie in spite of being a consultant on the Fox movies, and he recently shared some fan art of Deadpool killing Mickey Mouse on his social media page, so he is clearly not an impartial source of information here.
Another big problem with his statement is that allegedly, production grids for the next film in the series are out there, seen by a select few (including some industry insiders). Disney CEO Bob Iger also has an image of Deadpool on his Twitter banner, and previously noted that he's open to the idea of there being an R-rated Marvel Studios label for a third Deadpool movie and potentially other films. Marvel are currently in the process of making an omnibus of Deadpool stories from Joe Kelly, who gave the character the personality that fans of the character love. But most importantly, not only have Deadpool 1 and Deadpool 2 writers Rhett Reese and Paul Wernick officially met with Marvel Studios about the future of the franchise, but Ryan Reynolds, who is the only "FoX-Men" actor likely to make the jump into the MCU, has as well.
This was the original entry on the page before it got reverted:
- Untitled Deadpool film (TBA) note Confirmed by Ryan Reynolds to be in development. Reynolds will be returning as Deadpool, with writers Rhett Reese and Paul Wernick returning. Emma Watts and Simon Kinberg, who were involved with the previous films, will not be returning. The film will be the first R-rated entry in the MCU, and is expected to be distributed by 20th Century Studios instead of by Disney. Whether or not the film is a complete reboot or a Broad Strokes continuation of the franchise as it was prior to Disney's acquisition of Fox remains to be seen.
I tried relaying some of this information into the commented-out notes of article itself, but a Troper has recently accused me of being "biased" and is threatening to report me for vandalism... In spite of my simple relaying of crucial information like what I've shared above that debunks the speculation that Disney wants nothing to do with Deadpool. I am requesting that the Deadpool entry be reinstated into the article.
Edited by KingClarkopenIssue with HairDecorations on Characters.HopeOfTheShieldHero
So, on Characters.Hope Of The Shield Hero, Hair Decorations was removed by a troper doing cleanup (although to be fair that person didn't use an edit reason) and was added back by Allen Blaster and then the same trope/disambig was removed by another troper doing clean up and then Allen Blaster added it back again.
Granted he just changed it to Never Bare Headed a second after I posted this but he didnt rewrite the entry to fit that trope so it's technically still a ZCE but I dont want to edit it without feedback since I would be participating in an Edit war at this point.
The former Hair decs entry in question that now links to Never Bareheaded:
- Never Bareheaded: The two blue ribbons she uses to tie up her Girlish Pigtails.
EDIT: Also the same troper added back Lolicon on the same page after it was removed for not being a trope stating even if it isnt one it still belongs on the character page and that basically someone who hasnt read the fic has no right to remove it.
I guess he is taking these clean ups personally since he wrote the fic itself.
Edited by MacronNotesopenMemetic Mutation vs. "just memes"
if anyone can help, i'd like some clarification on what should/shouldn't be on a Memetic Mutation entry or subpage.
a few months ago a mod replied as such on the forums
, which suggests to me we shouldn't be cataloging every meme under the sun for a given work (and i believe the actual page mentions something like that). seems fair enough.
fast forward to now, and it seems like i've gotten myself into an edit war with a few other editors on hololive in an effort to follow this. now i'm wondering if they're actually strict guidelines for Memetic Mutation or not.
openUnrelated Trope Example Film
So recently I found a bad example in The Glass House like this:
- Financial Abuse: This is basically the plot. The siblings Ruby and Rhett were adopted by Erin and Terry, the best friends of their dead parents... only to be targeted for death so the "new parents" can collect the kids's HUGE inheritance. Not to mention Terry makes passes at Ruby, who's squicked outta her mind. Then, Ruby finds out that both Terry and Erin staged the parents's deaths. She then goes Plucky Girl, attempts to fight back against Terry and protect Rhett, and ultimately kills Terry (Erin had been Driven to Suicide out of guilt a while before). Then, the kids are taken in by their uncle.
openAbout Batman Print Comic
Do you think that we should add The Woobie subpage for the Batman franchise? I mean, Gotham is very unforgiving place that is filled with harsh environment and dastardly villains. Batman himself is the Iron Woobie as though he lost his parents to an killer, yet he still presses on and become a Hope Bringer to Gotham. Likewise, Barbara Gordon and Damian Wayne should count as well; as the former was humiliated and crippled by The Joker just to torture her father, and the latter was raised by a mother who is mentally unstable, and a grandfather who is a genocidal maniac. Cassandra Cain, Jim Gordon, Tim Drake, Stephanie Brown, and even Jason Todd are good examples. Heck, it even extends to some in Batman's Rogue Gallery, especially Harley Quinn and Mr. Freeze. The latter is in the tropes, Even Evil Has Loved Ones and Tragic Villain for a reason.
Edited by AlexHoskinsopenSelf Demonstrating Yoshikage Kira is gone?
I was trying to find the Self Demonstrating character page for Yoshikage Kira, and it's not here anymore. I don't know why it got deleted, but I like to joke that Kira himself actually blew up the article. Anyways, is it possible to rewrite the article and post it after it got deleted?
openGender neutral writing in trope descriptions
I noticed that the description for Widely-Spaced Jail Bars uses male pronouns, even though you could easily replace them with gender neutral ones. For some reason, I thought that descriptions should be gender neutral, unless the trope itself relates to a specific gender.
However, I couldn't find a rule that states that descriptions should refrain from using gendered pronouns, and some other pages (such as Frozen Face or This Way to Certain Death) use male pronouns as well.
Is there a rule regarding the use of gendered pronouns in descriptions?
Edited by PowogaopenJigsaw puzzles?
What medium do jigsaw puzzles fall into? I ask because I had one when I was younger which had an image I think could qualify for Epic Fail.
The image depicted a cartoonish miniature golf course. One of the holes is labeled the Beginner's Hole and the hole itself is maybe five times the size of a normal one. Standing next to the hole is a guy saying "I missed."
open Can someone fix the Tofie page? Music
The page for electronic musician Tofie is a complete mess. Half the tropes are misused and are seemingly only there for the creator to gush over how attractive they think the artist is, one of them is a ZCE, and the page isn't even indexed. I'd do it myself, but I have no idea where to start.
Edited by PhysicalStamina

Sorry for any confusion for the people so saw the first version of this, realizing a few things about the situation made me need to repost it with a less accusatory tone.
Now I noticed earlier that Grotadmorv removed the ZCE markup and tag on Toon Town Online. My original post was wrong in thinking they did this randomly; they actually did add context to a lot of the examples (as pointed out to me by Rally Bot). So that's fine, though hopefully the fact that I pinged them to the ZCE thread first won't create too much of a headache for them. I was thrown off by the deletion of the tag itself and that colored my perception of the rest of their edits.
However, my real question and the source of my earlier stress remains: What's the correct course of action when you notice months late that an issue had occurred? Lets' say I was right the first time and they didn't add any new context- I noticed their edit months afterward, long past the point of being able to request a mod revert. In this case that's not necessary anyway, but in other cases (say the case of Darkness Falls and the troper who kept reverting our work on that one), what's to be done if the revisions weren't noticed until a long time after the fact?
It feels petty to report people for things that happened months ago, even if usually I'd report them immediately had I noticed in a timely manner. But the amount of time in between it happening and it being noticed...makes it harder for me to know how to respond. Is it still edit warring in that case to fix it? Is there still a point in reporting the troper? Is it best to just ask for other tropers to help and move on? What's to be done when problems aren't noticed early enough to act on them?
Since that was my real question and the Grotad thing was just a catalyst to my asking it, that's why I decided to just recreate the query rather than stick with the misinformed earlier version.