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Ask the Tropers:
openFormatting crash
Something went wrong on The Arithmancer, causing everything between Monumental Damage and Powder Keg Crowd to break. I could probably find and fix it myself, but I'm on mobile right now.
openPage with no existing work Literature
While clicking the Random Media button, I came across the page for Linda. The page has four examples on it, and the description of the work claims that it's a short story hosted on a Google Document. Clicking on the provided link shows that the Document was deleted at some point, and I can't find any other copy of it online. There's no linked account for the author, the history for the page doesn't show who made it in the first place, and only five tropers (including myself at one point last year, to my surprise) have edited the page over the past 8 years.
I would like to ask what's the best course of action for a page like this. Do you cut the whole page, or do you toss it into the Unpublished Works section?
Courtesy link: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Literature.Linda
openOops
I tried adding an example to Sidetracked by the Gold Saucer, but some kinda glitch deleted a big chunk of the page!
I'm so sorry, I swear it was an accident! Can someone please fix it? I'd do it myself, but I don't want to risk getting the same bug and making it worse.
openEtiquette of Taking Charge in a Small Article Videogame
Hello,
I've been a trafficker on the site for a bit before finding small ways I could add to articles, whether it be fixing small mistakes I can find, or adding a few new tropes to not very well-known series.
The page for the video game Walking On A Star Unknown is sparse and had a bit of weird grammar (I did a little bit of editing myself for some wording, as well as adding a few tropes, an image, and a quote- both very general ones from the translator's site). I am interested in taking more liberty and adding a character page, as well as moving tropes that fit characters from the main page to simplify and improve the article.
Since it is quite a small, not yet too-popular game, I assume it would be alright for me to take charge with this? I am not too sure on the etiquette of making large improvements without prior consulting to a larger audience myself, and if I have already stepped over the line by adding a photo and quote, I admit fault (and am more than willing to change it myself if there are any issues.)
In addition, is it preferred that I edit in chunks, or in one or two larger edits? My flow is currently to add bits and pieces at a time, though I could always change this to be one large edit if it is more convenient.
Apologies that this is so long and in depth, I didn't think more background info would hinder anything, I hope. Thank you! Papurika
Migrated to Chloe Jessica!
openProblematic entry
the following entry on Funny.The Legend Of Zelda Breath Of The Wild rubs me the wrong way:
- In fact, getting the Gerudo clothes to sneak into town is hilarious in itself. For starters, the "Vai" is clearly actually a voe, but Link goes along with it for the sake of the mission. When Link is given the rather revealing outfit, he at first looks embarrassed, but after the "Vai" gives him a few compliments, he looks bashful but pleased... And then the wind blows off the "Vai"'s mask, revealing their true face, resulting in a Face Palm from Link.
note that Vai translates as woman and Voe translates as man.
this entry comes off as extremely transphobic to me. the person in question expresses exclusively as female and is never seen expressing any masculine traits. it's noted on the YMMV page that the whole sequence is controversial because of its questionable portrayal of a possibly trans individual. people can find whatever they want funny, of course; it's not like you can choose what you laugh at. but the way this is worded implies that because the person wasn't assigned female at birth, they aren't female. this strikes me as a very mean-spirited jab at non-passing trans people, and i know the wiki is better than that.
openAbout the Atoner
If a character wants to make up for one or more terrible things they did, but their deeds were so heinous and so many in number that people reject their attempts for that reason(s), and if the character realized that their misdeeds were so many and so severe that they may never get their atonement, what form of playing with this trope would that be? I think it might be a deconstruction in that if a person’s done so many terrible things, then there’s no way for them to ever be forgiven. But then again, I also think it might be playing it for drama.
Here’s an example: Sasuke Uchiha from Naruto killed members of a nation’s military (the Iron Country samurai), attempted to kidnap Killer Bee, the relative of a village leader, and allied himself with a known criminal and later a terrorist organization. He’s committed murder, Mind Rape, attempted kidnapping, and high treason, and now post-Kaguya he’s trying to make up for all of that. If wherever he went people rejected his attempts at atonement - denying him food and lodging and generally treating him as persona non grata - and he realized people would never forgive him because of how bad his actions were and felt/thought that the sheer number and severity of all his past misdeeds were so great that he would never fully atone for them in his lifetime, what form of playing with the Atoner would that be?
openWhat counts as Happy Ending Override?
I made a Trope Finder thread
asking about a trope regarding the heroes earning their happy ending, only for some new threat to come along threatening to destroy everything they worked so hard for that they once again take up arms and combat it. partner555 suggested Happy Ending Override, to which I explained that was only for sequels where it happened inbetween instalments where the heroes fallied, and Tropers/{{4tell0life4}} doubled down on it being Happy Ending Override in conjunction with Immediate Sequel. Happy Ending Override describes itself as the following, emphasis mine:
My query is about works whose sequels, continuations, what-have-you start off in the peace the previous work ended at, and it is in this work that the new threat comes in and tries to ruin it. I feel there's some sort of miscommunication going on, and how both of them seem so sure it's Happy Ending Override makes me wonder how the trope is being used off-page.
Edited by Crossover-EnthusiastopenSchindler's List as an example of White Man's Burden Film
A while ago Mark2000
added Schindler's List as an example on the trope page of White Man's Burden, which was removed for the entry itself being objectively inaccurate, they also added Mighty Whitey to that film's page and edit warred about it until it was deleted a second time.
Flash forward and LadyEros
has added the example to the White Man's Burden.
Now personally I think the trope doesn't apply, for the reason that The Holocaust was targeting people who were white Europeans too, even if the rhetoric back then portrayed them as sub-human. And also by the editors' logic then any instance when a privileged individual helps an oppressed group would be this trope.
What do you think?
Migrated to Chloe Jessica!
opensomething missing
this entry is from Transhuman Treachery:
- It happens regularly with Dead Apostles: no matter if they turn on their own with the use of magecraft or are turned by the bite of another Dead Apostle, a True Ancestor or even Brunestud of the Crimson Moon itself, by the time the process ends they see themselves as superior to humanity (or saw the Dead Apostle as superior even before, in the case of those who turned themselves) and have no problem at feeding on them. So far, there are only five Subversions: Zelretch, Merem Solomon and Satsuki were powerful enough to skip the usual long and torturing process and their personalities remained the same (even Merem Solomon's adoration of Brunestud fits in, as it was the only one to treat him as a person and turned him as an act of mercy, even giving him a few pointers to better live as a Dead Apostle), Gransurg Blackmoore was a human who had decided to serve Brunestud after being crushed by him in battle and turned himself because it would be more appropriate, and Enhance Defied this by willing himself into retaining most of his humanity before starting to hunt down the other Dead Apostles.
there's, uh, there's no work here. none of those potholes go to whatever work this is. this seems a grave oversight.
openReporting a troper
lugia1 is deleting a whole bunch of commented-out ZCEs with no edit reasons (see A Boy and His X and Abhorrent Admirer). They have also made some grammar and capitalization mistakes, as seen on Abandon Ship and the subpages of Get a Hold of Yourself, Man! (which I fixed). Requesting a revert on the removal of commented-out examples; they're left like that so people can add context, and deleting them is rather rude.
Edited by rjd1922openPossible ROCEJ Violation
On Trivia.Chuggaaconroy, there's an example under Missing Episode involving a video featuring ProJared being removed due to a scandal involving him that started a few months ago that was originally read this:
- One of his Pikmin 3 Mission Mode episodes was removed as of May 2019, as the episode in question had Pro Jared as his guest. This was because said guest star was in deep trouble for...controversial reasons involving Jared cheating on his wife.
However, machop changed it to this:
- One of his Pikmin 3 Mission Mode episodes was removed as of May 2019, as the episode in question had Pro Jared as his guest. This was because said guest star was then-currently being accused by people who might've thought Jared was harassing certain groups. Fortunately, those claims were proven as false as of September 2019 by Jared himself. The video is still currently missing, however.
However, people are debating whether ProJared was really telling the truth or not, and I fear this could lead to an edit war. I think this example should be rewritten to be more neutral and should warn about ROCEJ like this:
- A Pikmin 3 Mission Mode episode featuring Pro Jared as a guest was removed as of May 2019, following allegations of Jared cheating on his wife. And we'll leave it at that.
openVideos not showing?
According to recent videos, there's a video for Never Speak Ill of the Dead approved.
However there's no video on the trope page itself.
openTitle Question Western Animation
I was in the process of making a trope page for the Herself The Elf cartoon, but am unsure what to call it. Wikipedia lists it as The Magic of Herself the Elf or The Special Magic of Herself the Elf, the latter being its onscreen name, and while checking out its wicks other tropers listed it as just Herself the Elf, which was also the name of the toyline. Any ideas? I was thinking of just going with Herself the Elf since that's the general name of the franchise but am unsure. Thanks!
open Single-Target Smiler / A Different Brand of Smile
Woops, was informed that this kind of post needs to go in Trope Finder instead of Ask The Tropers. Just posted it there as well. You live and learn :)
—-
Hello tropers!
I was wondering if there's a trope for a character who doesn't usually smile (or only smiles in a scary / intimidating way) but for whatever reason WILL smile sincerely at only one other character - the character they have a crush on, the Morality Pet, a family member, whatever. It always touches my heart when a grumpy and / or emotionally distant and / or scary character has a different brand of smile for a specific character that's in some way close to their heart. (Doesn't have to be in a romantic way).
I read through the Smile Tropes page and the Heartwarming Moments page and didn't find anything that fit the above description perfectly. The only tropes I could find that sort of come close to what I mean are:
1. Smile of Approval. However, this trope focuses on the specific reason for the smile given (approval) and I found myself thinking it might be nice if there was a trope page collecting ALL examples of characters who don't usually smile giving a sincere smile to another character for WHATEVER reason, be it approval or love or anything else. (I'm soppy, so sue me XD)
2. When She Smiles. However, this trope focuses more on how other characters in-universe react to the (rarely seen) smile. The trope I'm talking about (which of course might not....actually...exist) focuses more on the smile being directed at a single character, and it's not important whether that character notices they are the recipient of that Rare Smile ™ or not, or what they think about being the recipient of this smile. I guess what I'm talking about has vibes of Single Target Sexuality but in this case it would be Single Target Affection.
I also checked the O.O.C. is serious business page, but all tropes collected here seem to focus on negative things and how characters act when there's impending danger, so I don't think I'm gonna find what I'm looking for there, either.
Defrosting Ice Queen / King might fit the bill in some respects, but this trope isn't narrowed down to only smiles, and also includes an element of time (the whole defrosting as characters get to know each other better set-up) and character development (going from haughty / frozen to kinder). The trope I mean - only showing a sincere smile to one other character - could also apply if a character stays the same personality-wise from the beginning to the end of the storyline they're in.
What do you all think? Do you know any tropes who fit what I'm talking about? If not, could there be some merit in starting a trope page like this collecting examples from all media, or is the defenition too vague? (Or, for that matter, too narrow because it focuses only on smiling?) Do you know any examples of usually non-smiling characters giving sincere smiles to only one other character?
If this trope doesn't already have a page and I just didn't succeed in finding it, I was thinking it might be fun to call it it A Different Brand of Smile, or maybe Single-Target Smiler. It might also have some merit to link this trope in the also see / closely associated with section of Tsundere, Defrosting Ice Queen / King, etc.
Sorry for the ridiculously long post and please excuse any grammatical errors, English isn't my first language. Would love to hear any and all recommendations of tropes that might fit my description and what you all think about possibly starting a trope page for this!
Edited by m4y_zaeopenRepeated Trope Misuse and Edit Warring
On Characters.The Rising Of The Shield Hero, johnnysevens7 added And Then What? as an example, stating that even if one of the show’s antagonists had succeeded, then it was likely that things would have gone from bad to worse for themselves and the rest of the characters in the setting. I removed the example because it was Fridge Logic; this isn't a point being made within the story itself (the trope is when one character asks another what comes after their master plan and the schemer has no answer), it's a viewer's speculation about where the plot MIGHT have gone if the anagonist's plan had worked as they wished.
Two months later, jonnysevens7 re-added the trope with pretty much the same argument as before with no discussion. He has recently added another similar example stating the same thing about a different antagonist on the show.
As far as I can tell, Jonny is technically edit-warring and also ignoring both edit reasons as well as continuously misusing a trope.
Edited by NubianSatyressopenChaotic evil automatically a YMMV trope? Music
Was editing the page for Razia's Shadow and tried adding the Chaotic Evil trope to the list of examples, but it automatically turned into a YMMV trope instead of a normal bullet point trope. Is Chaotic Evil automatically a YMMV / subjective interpretation trope? I would have thought if the character being described never has his motivations for an evil deed explained in canon apart from "because he wants to", that would count as Chaotic Evil, no YMMV about it. (For context: the character in question is Barayas the spider, who in the song "The Spider and the Lamps" from the musical Razia's Shadow encourages another character to literally Set the World on Fire without apparently gaining anything from it himself. Lyrics of the song here: https://genius.com/Forgive-durden-the-spider-and-the-lamps-lyrics)
Is there any way to sumbit the Chaotic Evil trope to the examples list without turning into a YMMV trope? Or should I just submit it to the YMMV page?
openThe issue of YMMV.TVTokyo
YMMV.TV Tokyo is a YMMV page regarding a Creator (a TV station to be exact). While I agree the Germans Love David Hasselhoff must be removed, I'm unsure about the two "memetic" entries. The things is, those memes relates to the editorial preferences of the station—in this case, a general aversion to news—so it could be associated with a work, or you can is is the work itself, on a more vague sense. But for this particular policy, is it a work?
Also note that beyond that, the existence of that meme is proven beyond doubt.
openHe Also Did misuse
Tangentially related to MasterHero's ATT about Relationship Voice Actor, I've noticed an increasing number of Trivia/ pages that feature misuse of He Also Did. Per the page itself, "These are examples of well-known works (not obscure experiments) of creators that are so far out of their perceived niche that often times people don't immediately realize the person behind it." Things like Mel Brooks, the same guy who gave us The Producers, Blazing Saddles, and Young Frankenstein, also being the producer of The Elephant Man and The Fly (1986). Or iconic 20th century science fiction author Ray Bradbury working on the script for the John Huston film of Moby-Dick.
Thing is, I've seen a growing number of Trivia/ pages where He Also Did is essentially treated as a successor to Hey Its That Guy, sometimes for performers and sometimes for creators; in particular, I've seen multiple pages for television series where there are entries for seemingly everyone who wrote or directed an episode with the names of other series they've created or for which they've written or directed, almost all of which are in the same genre (for example, a page for a sitcom simply lists the other sitcoms for which the series' writers have written).
Should a cleanup thread be started to address this misuse? (It looks as though most of them were added by the same troper
, so sending a PM is presumably also in order.)

One Big Smash-y Family is in dire need of assistance. There are ZCEs out the wazoo, nearly the entire page is spoiler tagged, and worst of all, that's not a custom title, it was actually created with a hyphen. I'd fix and transport it myself, but I plan on reading the fic and don't want to be spoiled. I'm also not sure if mods can actually cut hyphen pages or not.