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Ask the Tropers:
openWe've Got a Scrappy Problem Videogame
About a month ago, I deleted all the entries for The Scrappy on Criminal Case because they were clearly meant to be hated and hated badly. Here it is for reference:
- The Scrappy:
- In the 2014 Criminal Case Wiki Awards
, Miriam Young won the game's "Most Annoying Character" title (by a very huge margin) due to her cold and domineering personality, and her cruel treatment towards Amy (who, by contrast, was voted as the fan favorite). Not only that, several fans have gone as far as saying that she should be in jail instead of Duncan even though he's the Night Walker.
- Albert Tesla also qualifies, for abandoning his son, thinking himself to be Pacific Bay's God, nearly destroying it and killing fan-favorite Frank Knight when he attempts to stop him. He's even voted the game's "Most Annoying Character" of 2015.
- Sarah Bennet was voted as the "Most Annoying Character" on the 2016 Criminal Case Wiki Awards
. Rightfully so since she nearly killed Jack, killed Dupont and Natasha (regardless of her affiliation with SOMBRA, she's still Marina's mom), and nearly caused World War III.
- Horatio Rochester was voted as the "Most Annoying Character" on the 2017 Criminal Case Wiki Awards, owing to his attempt to fully control Concordia as a city-state and abolish press freedom. Moreover, unlike Justin Lawson, who was ultimately a Well-Intentioned Extremist who Jumped Off The Slippery Slope, Horatio has no redeeming qualities and is motivated by selfish and petty reasons.
- In the 2014 Criminal Case Wiki Awards
I discovered only today that three days later, user pizzasoda66 added them all back. Their reasons were, and I quote, "The description of this trope is "The fans hate this character for some reason.". Just because they're supposed to be disliked doesn't mean they're not scrappies. Why do you think they were voted as the most annoying character?"
Whether or not a character who's meant to be hated can qualify as a Scrappy anyway is a mug I don't wanna chug right now, but their description of The Scrappy as a trope is way off. It's the given explanation on the laconic page, which feels like an artifact of the past, and should be changed to add the qualifier "against the intentions of the creator". Because that being the case, again, none of these assholes are unintentionally hated.
I would go back and say this, but I'd rather not get hit with an Edit War accusation and edit banned for it. What do you guys think?
openIs that really a tearjerker?
On the Tearjerker page for Fire Emblem Heroes, I removed these examples:
- Meta-example, and pretty subjective, but if you're a fan of Takumi, seeing his fall from grace throughout the meta is incredibly sad. It's particularily bad for him, as Takumi has poor self-confidence and an inferiority complex.
- Pick a low-tier character - any low-tier character - who has fans. Now imagine how those fans must be feeling. One of their favorite characters is now a weakling in this game.
But then they were added back by The Azuholic with the note that they're Tearjerkers for someone.
The fact that it's a "meta-example" alone makes it seem questionable, though. Are those allowed on Moments pages?
Edited by HarpieSirenopenCombined examples needing split Videogame
I'm working on a trope page for a project of mine (though I'm keeping it off TvT itself until said project gets far enough), but I'm having a problem with two of them. At the moment, they had to be merged into a single example in order to make sense, but I want to split them into separate entries that still reference each other in a coherent manner.
- Attract Mode/Automatic New Game: When the game is first started, the main menu treats you to a flyby of the Hub (sans portals) in the background, with the menu itself disappearing if the game is left alone long enough. When a new game is started, the menu goes straight into it’s Attract Mode as if it’d been left alone, but the music starts to fade out instead of remaining on, as the camera slows to a stop. A few seconds later, we’re treated to a loud *THUD* followed by an equally loud “...Ow!” from Mike after another second, immediately going into the intro mission’s starting cutscene from there.
- On subsequent loads, the game does the same thing, but for the world the player was last in. But instead of going into attract mode, it instead fades to black (which also functions as a concealed loading screen), before cutting to a short scene showing Sam/Mike waking up, at which point it seamlessly switches to gameplay.
- When starting a new game (or new game+) when not in the Hub, it will start differently, with the game fading out as normal, before the loud thud is heard while the screen is still faded out. Beyond this, the scene starts as normal.
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
openAbout the No Real Life Examples, Please! description
I remember seeing a few cases in the past where people have wondered whether reality TV shows should be allowed to have No Real Life Examples, Please! tropes listed on their pages. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I also believe that the official judgment from the moderation team was that reality TV shows are scripted enough to not actually count as real life, so these tropes should be allowed so long as they're limited to troping what actually happens in the show.
Shouldn't this rule be mentioned on the NRLEP page? The page isn't locked so I could add it myself, but I think the reason for that is so people can add tropes to the list rather than for them to edit the description, so I'd like to ask if that's OK first.
openHow should we note familiar voices? Film
It used to be there was a trope called "Hey, It's That Voice," which was listed on the trivia section and was a nice way of calling out why a particular actor might sound familiar. Subsequently, the trope was changed to "Role Association."
But now I see "Role Association" is a "Just For Fun" trope, which apparently doesn't merit inclusion on any of a work's pages at all anymore. (Unless there's some way to make a "[Work]/Just For Fun" page, which I don't see anywhere in the page-creation interface.) And furthermore, going to the "Role Association" page, it's apparently all about imagining a given work had another of an actor's characters swapped in, which is not the sense in which "Hey, It's That Voice" was used.
I used to like to be able to see listings of actors from a given work who were better known for other roles, and to add such myself. But now those listings are apparently all gone. Granted that these listings are more about the particular actors than the work they starred in, it was still nice to be able to see a list of all the other well-known roles the actors had right there together.
Is there an appropriate trivia category to use, since "Role Association" apparently isn't it?
Edited by Robotech_MasteropenKingdom Live Action TV
I'm happy to create it myself (with some trepidation as a fairly newbie troper admittedly) but wanted to check first;
Is there a specific reason there's no page for Kingdom (the mma tv series?)
openSpider-Man stuff
Revolutionary_Jack has been adding a lot of entries to Spider-Man YMMV pages that don't have a general fandom consensus to be on the YMMV page, such as Steve Ditko's Gwen Stacy being a Love to Hate character and modern readers preferring her to any other version of Gwen. Entries that are legit are very long-winded and nattery, and they also deleted a Spider-Man 3 Vindicated by History example due to the film "not being a classic" even though its reputation has improved post-ASM 2 and the Editor's Cut salvaging a lot of the movie. The following examples are just from the Spider-Man 3 YMMV page but similar examples can be found on other Spider-Man pages, including main, subpage, and trivia pages.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/el.php?findfor=Revolutionary_Jack
"* Misaimed Fandom:
- The symbiote influenced Peter is supposed to be Peter Slowly Sliding Into Evil and the narm and lameness of "Emo Peter" is definitely an Intended Audience Reaction. But given that many audiences had grown fatigued over Raimi's portrayal of Peter as a serious Extreme Doormat Hurting Hero in the previous films (even if Maguire himself was praised for his performance and screen presence), the fact that the one time we see Peter acting somewhat closer to his more rounded comics' portrayal such as him talking back to his landlord and giving Harry Osborn a piece of his mind, it's shown as a case of a Symbiote turning him evil, makes many fans express frustration about Raimi's misreading of the character as a suffering superhero monk.
- Many fans especially feel this way about Peter negotiating a higher salary from Jameson. In the comics this happened at the end of the Master Planner arc (considered among the all-time greatest stories in Spider-Man mythos), and it was portrayed as a Hell Yes moment. The movie makes it seem like this is his Start of Darkness even if what Peter is doing, calling out Eddie Brock for his unethical work and fighting against Jameson's exploitation, is entirely legitimate."
"* They Changed It, Now It Sucks!:
- A big sticking point for some fans, even if the character on the whole was praised, was the Retcon that made Sandman into Uncle Ben's killer. It's not the first time a superhero film did this (Tim Burton's Batman did the same to Joker, and it was criticized even then by many reviewersnote It was an element that DC Comics, normally receptive to introducing elements from adaptations, absolutely refused to incorporate into the character since it drastically undermined the appeal of the Batman-Joker rivalry) but many audiences felt it drastically undercut and ruined Peter's origin from Spider-Man 1 (since if the burglar Peter specifically didn't let escape kill Uncle Ben, and it was his getaway partner who did it in panic, then that means that Peter isn't actually responsible for his Uncle's death and his entire guilt was misplaced, which ruins the crucial theme from his story). Many also saw it as an inability for Raimi and Sony to create a nemesis who wasn't a free agent unconnected to Peter's story and life simply so that they could rehash simple beats. A tendency at Sony Pictures which continued in The Amazing Spider-Man Series and which the hacked Sony emails had one of Marvel's own executives call them out on.
- As a number of fans note, the Symbiote was never Spider-Man's Superpowered Evil Side nor did it turn him into evil, and definitely ''not'' emo. The original Symbiote was a sentient suit that liked Spider-Man and became a case of a Stalker with a Crush. It ended up taking Peter out as Spider-Man while in his sleep, and Peter worried about gaps and lack of control parted ways with it, which made the Symbiote a crazy jealous ex, who saw new host Eddie Brock as "sloppy seconds". The change in dynamics to a more simplistic Jekyll and Hyde story annoyed many for cheapening a great concept, as well as creating frustrating drama since Peter acts like a jerk to his loved ones but since it's not really his fault, all his actions can be blamed on Gollum Made Me Do It (which as many note was a beat that applied to the villain of Spider-Man 1 and something which Peter didn't entirely accept there)."
openMemetic Sex God cleanup
Memetic Sex God is being cleaned up. I'm not about the following:
- Clark Baxtresser: Along with his best friend and bandmate Pierce Siebers, who with him forms the two-man act TalkFine, Baxtresser has more or less stepped into Darren Criss' vacant role as Starkid's musical mastermind. Played keyboard for Me and My Dick, A Very Potter Sequel and Starship. Stepped up for the SPACE Tour and Apocalyptour to create concert arrangements for the songs in Starkid's catalogue — in most cases having to transcribe the songs by hand because no sheet music from the original productions survived. Promoted to musical director and co-wrote the music and lyrics for A Very Potter Senior Year, and sings in Darren Criss' place as Harry Potter for the soundtrack. Co-wrote and performed lead vocals for all the music for Ani. Was musical director and band leader for Ani, The Trail to Oregon! and Firebringer, which also had his first onstage cameo As Himself. Has become a Memetic Sex God among Starkid fans, with Meredith Stepien and Lauren Lopez both saying he's objectively the most "supermegafoxyawesomehot" member of the team.
- Taiyang Xiao Long being a Memetic Sex God. Explanation After the team Taiyang was in entered into people's minds more frequently with a picture of them in the Volume 3 opening, people began to have more fun with the fact he's been married and had a daughter with each of the women in his team. A common joke goes that Taiyang's Semblance is impregnating every woman he meets.
- In reverse, it's not uncommon to see jokes about Qrow being such a jerk because he can't get laid, as presumably he's the only one on his team whom Taiyang never slept with.
- ENTIRE. TEAM. Explanation After the photo of Team STRQ was revealed, an edit from
◊ RWBYRecaps began circulating where Taiyang says he's going to impregnate his entire team and Qrow tries clarifying that he's there too. Taiyang's response is where this meme comes from.
- ENTIRE. WORLD. Explanation Fans have deemed Jaune as Taiyang's successor in his Entire Team crusade after the finale puts them under similar lights. As a successor, it is now Jaune's duty to go beyond his team, add the fact that fans enjoy shipping Jaune with every female of the series and you get this meme.
- Approval of God: The author's mentor couldn't have felt any more honored to have Takeru modeled after him, primarily because of both the fact Takeru is a character that the author always had a preference for, and the fact the author's mentor is glad to see how his prodigy is using his newly taught knowledge on writing to his advantage with Takeru's portrayal as a Memetic Sex God in-universe and as an Intended Audience Reaction.
What do I do with those examples?
open the site has degraded completely for me
when i go on to tv tropes now it reduces itself to a late 90s mid 2000s format of nothing but a white background. the site is impossible to use now, and if anyone could help me fix this, please
openDid this ever exist?
I thought we had a cleanup thread on the forums for Self Demonstrating Articles in general, besides the specific ones for character pages and folder titles - but searching can't find any trace of it. Did this ever exist, and if not, would it be a good idea to create one?
open Potential Bias in Avatar pages? Western Animation
Okay, so K 2 Misfit has made two edits on Avatar pages that I find somewhat questionable. The first is on the YMMV page, under Franchise Original Sin :
And the second is under Fandom-Specific Plot:
Both seem to be editorializing somewhat. Now, in regards to the former, that's probably going to happen at least a little on the YMMV pages, but I still think they ought to reflect some sort of consensus, whereas this mentions a lot of specific issues that seem to be the troper's person opinions framed as a generally accepted "this is the way it should have been". Still, this is the YMMV page, so maybe I should be more lenient when it comes to opinions, but at least some of it seems like a stretch.
As for the latter entry, it seems to be going in a YMMV direction on a page that is not that. Certainly, a mention of fics that wish to further explore queer issues in the verse is perfectly fine, even mentioning that many do not feel that it was explored as well as it could be, but I don't think the somewhat accusatory tone of the entry is necessary. I think this entry deserves to stay, but it ought to be rewritten somewhat.
Thoughts?
open Is this an Idiot Plot?
On YMMV.Code Lyoko:
- Idiot Plot: The show stresses the Masquerade, yet the gang has openly mentioned Lyoko and XANA within crowded areas talking louder than anyone else as well as in front of at least one person not privy to the secret — and somehow this generally doesn't expose them all. This has actually happened at least 20 times within the first two seasons alone. Mitigated, of course, by the Reset Button — but the point still stands, as they're way too much relying on it to cover their indiscretions. They also often pass it off as discussing some movie or video game.
Does this count? The entry kind of argues with itself in some places.
openImmortals Fear Death example? Literature
I have a question regarding whether an scene in Chronicles of Chaos about an army of four different immortal factions are all taken aback when faced with a Army of the Dead and either fled or stopped counts as example of this trope, since it's a rather literal example but the point of the narration seems to be that they find death itself a fearful, unnatural or and incomprehensible concept, the text in the book goes likes this:
- Yet even they, yet even they were held back by one more terrible still: the great lord whom I will not name, the Unseen One, the Lord of the House of Woe, came forth that day in all his horror, opened the hell-gate, and drove his armies of shadow before him; the dead walked, and the Great Fear was at hand: the dreamlords shrieked and fled like mist; the Fallen spirits cowered, aetherial spear and shield a-tremble in their airy hands; and the cold brains of the war-machines of the Lost would not open fire with their planet-destroying weapons without the support of their allies. Even the deathless Titans of your timeless people, the prelapsarians, were astonished, and they paused, even though they could not be made afraid.
So what do you think? I know this usually goes in the discussion pages, and I opened a one, but no one answered.
Edited by Revival_ZeroopenGanon Self Demonstration
I'm gonna recreate this page, and wanna know why it was deleted or if it's a good idea to rebuild it. I kinda wanna know what it'd look like. -iJosh64
Edited by ShroomwoodopenThe Last Day Of June
For some reason, tropes on The Last Day of June show up as being indexed, even though there's no index formatting on the page that I'm aware of. (Ironically, the game page itself isn't indexed). Glitch, or am I missing something?
It's worth noting that the page was just made on the 29th.
Edited by WarJay77openFanworks on Main (and ban evader?)
DetestableDegenerate linked various ROM hacks of Super Metroid to the main page.
- Sequel Escalation: Many of the game's ROM hacks, most notably Z-Factor
and Redesign
, are monumentally larger than the original. Also, Metroid Fusion in terms of it being an Actionized Sequel.
It seem inappropriate to put fan works to the main since they are not part of the work itself (also, Fusion should go under its own page). I've similarly seen things like Fix Fic in the works that they fix. Should those be removed?
Also, Larkmarn removed their edits claiming they were a ban-evader
, (it is a very new account) which DetestableDegenerate immediately restored. If they were a ban-evader, I assume they would have been banned before they could add it back, are they? (This would effect what we clean up.

Fallout 76 has been added to Horrible.Video Game Generations Seventh Onwards.
It has a Metacritic score of 51, with most critic reviews being mixed rather than outright negative, making me think the addition is a knee-jerk reaction to the controversy currently surrounding the game.
The sentence starting with "While the full fallout of the disaster haven't been seen..." may be in violation of Examples Are Not Recent since it's using language that makes it sound like the issues mentioned are still ongoing (which they are, but will most likely stop being so in a few days' or weeks' time), on top of not actually being about the game itself.