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openVictoria Literature
So, questions regarding Literature/Victoria have come up several times, but discussion always peters out with no solid conclusion, so I hope to just get an answer once and for all. First, the description states unequivocally that the comparison to The Turner Diaries is unfair. No reason is ever given for this (it claims that it is self-evident by comparing their trope pages, I have and still don't see it). The other point of concern is the Tearjerker page
, which seems really suspect. My main question is why we seem to feel so strongly about maintaining neutrality on this page. I know we claim that as a universal policy, but it clearly isn't. Look at the page for the aforementioned Turner Diaries or Birth Of A Nation or (to move to the opposite end) Mission to Moscow. We would never tolerate any of these being described as merely "controversial", as Victoria is. Hardly a line on these pages goes by without a denouncement of their politics. Even works that are merely widely hated but nowhere near as odious get far less balance, like Fifty Shades of Grey. So why is so much neutrality demanded here?
openNo Title Literature
I just came across the page for the book Liar and it is absolutly covered in whitespaced spoiler tags. I've moved all the tags that were around the trope names onto around the text itself, but it is still looking far too tag heavy. I'm not familiar with this work myself, and I understand it has a sizeable twist halfway through, which the author has asked readers not to spoil, so I would be grateful if anyone has an idea on how to rewrite this to work with our spoiler policy. Or maybe we should just declare it spoilers off, and put a warning label at the top?
Anyone got any ideas, please?
openWhat's in a name? (and a blank page) Literature
Hey everyone.
I wanted to create a fan fiction page for a story that I really enjoyed, and I'm thoroughly looking on the How to Create a Works Page. But for the life of me I can't find a good blank page to write on.
I'm not asking anyone to do this job for me, but where can I find one? Or do I create one by myself.
Thanks.
openImmortals Fear Death example? Literature
I have a question regarding whether an scene in Chronicles of Chaos about an army of four different immortal factions are all taken aback when faced with a Army of the Dead and either fled or stopped counts as example of this trope, since it's a rather literal example but the point of the narration seems to be that they find death itself a fearful, unnatural or and incomprehensible concept, the text in the book goes likes this:
- Yet even they, yet even they were held back by one more terrible still: the great lord whom I will not name, the Unseen One, the Lord of the House of Woe, came forth that day in all his horror, opened the hell-gate, and drove his armies of shadow before him; the dead walked, and the Great Fear was at hand: the dreamlords shrieked and fled like mist; the Fallen spirits cowered, aetherial spear and shield a-tremble in their airy hands; and the cold brains of the war-machines of the Lost would not open fire with their planet-destroying weapons without the support of their allies. Even the deathless Titans of your timeless people, the prelapsarians, were astonished, and they paused, even though they could not be made afraid.
So what do you think? I know this usually goes in the discussion pages, and I opened a one, but no one answered.
Edited by Revival_ZeroopenUnfinished subpages Literature
Characters.Alex Rider was split into multiple subpages, but the creator of the subpages hardly bothered to move content that used to be in the main character page to their appropriate, respective subpages.
I'd fix it myself, but I'm uncertain which goes where as I haven't actively kept up with the series in a long while.
Subpages:
Edited by Tenma-YuukiopenWhere to link for a work Literature
I want to add an example to The Social Expert for a character from Warhammer 40k. Here's the problem.
- The character is omnipresent in the setting
- The scene that I want to use specifically as an example comes from a book, that we don't have a page specifically for
- The book itself is a combination of game rules and storyline (my example is from the storyline part)
Should I link to Warhammer 40,000 or to the book itself as a redlink? Should the example be under Literature or Tabletop Game?
openBorderline Edit War on Andrzej Sapkowski Literature
The trope section of Creator.Andrzej Sapkowski is in large parts dedicated to bashing the author for various grievances that seem mostly to revolve around the author's negative commentary resp. legal battles regarding various adaptations of his works, and the author supposedly generally being an avaricious hypocrite (source: TV Tropes).
While the entire page could certainly need a big clean-up, an almost-Edit War has lately ignited over the following example of Disowned Adaptation:
- The Hexer movie. Sapkowski euphemistically expressed his negative opinion about the film: "I can answer only with a single word, an obscene, albeit a short one". What he carefully "forgets" to mention nowadays is the big pile of money he so eagerly took for selling the rights for adaptation and then started slandering the production the moment he realized there will be no second tranche of money. While the film is a disaster, Sapkowski is doing his best over the years to pretend he didn't help make it in such form in the first place.
Recently troper Revolutionary_Jack removed the last sentence of the entry, with the, in my opinion very reasonable, edit reason that
The deletion was restored (with a slight expansion regarding the author's "messy and utterly pointless copyright battle") by Dratewka. I myself got then involved by cutting everything after Sapkowski's statement on the movie, on the grounds of it not actually belonging there in the first place.
Dratewka has again reverted the example, the only change being a further expansion in form of a lengthy note, the point of which seems to be the argument that the author is to be blamed for the movie being bad. Edit reason:
Courtesy link to the edit history
.
I'd be glad for other tropers or a mod to weigh in.
Edited by LordGroopenFlynnbulwinter/darkelfwizard Literature
I have good to believe that a couple of "tropers" named Tropes/Flynnbulwinter and Tropers/darkelfwizard has been using the site as self-promotion for their indie fantasy book series,Anthologies of Ullord as Nikki Flynn and Edwin Dantes.
In the Ullord main work page, you could see in the edit history, that these people edited the pages themselves and putting elements in the trope pages.
They have not seem to stop, with them editing their own pages months ago. The Anthologies of Ullord are basic paint-by-numbers fantasy, which make this situation more odd. A troper suggested this to me after the High Crate "event."
I hope you would respond in kind,
S.V.
openRed links to the Back to the Future novel Literature
Lately, I've been seeing links to the article for George Gipe's novelization of Back to the Future as a Red Link, like so. However, the page itself is still intact. Worried about the page being cut, I took no chances and moved all of the examples from that page to the page for B to the F: The Novelization of the Feature Film in case. I checked the Recent Cuts page
, but it's not there. I checkd the Cut List page
, but it's not there either. Can someone tell me whether it's actually being cut or not?
openPage with no existing work Literature
While clicking the Random Media button, I came across the page for Linda. The page has four examples on it, and the description of the work claims that it's a short story hosted on a Google Document. Clicking on the provided link shows that the Document was deleted at some point, and I can't find any other copy of it online. There's no linked account for the author, the history for the page doesn't show who made it in the first place, and only five tropers (including myself at one point last year, to my surprise) have edited the page over the past 8 years.
I would like to ask what's the best course of action for a page like this. Do you cut the whole page, or do you toss it into the Unpublished Works section?
Courtesy link: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Literature.Linda
openHow to use the "Freemium" trope? Literature
Should it be under the trivia tab or on the main page of a work? Or, since it's Literature and not a video game or referencing a video game, is there a better trope to use?
The context is that the work is free to read online, but people who pay for VIP memberships to the site it's hosted on get early access to chapters/are ad-free/etc. It wouldn't be used as a trope that pertains to the story itself or to storytelling, so I feel like it should be under trivia. However I've seen it on the main page of other works and it isn't on the list of tropes on the main Trivia page.
openFranchise Original Sin for Harry Potter Literature
The Harry Potter saga has acquired enough space to fit its own page for the Franchise Original Sin trope. While some entries are understandable, this one feels kinda odd.
- One of the more common critiques of Crimes of Grindelwald was the titular villain's plan, where he wants To Unmasque the World with the purpose of taking it over and stopping the atrocities of the 1930s-40s. While his imperialist ambitions are undeniably bad, the invoking of Holocaust and Nazi imagery and Grindelwald's legitimate argument about how the Statute of Secrecy ultimately does a lot more harm than good for both Muggles and Wizards ended up striking a chord with a lot of audiences. As a result, it made the "good guys" seem extremely selfish, because when you read between the lines, it acknowledged that wizards could have stopped World War II, the Holocaust, etc., but considered staying isolated and segregated to be more important than saving millions of lives. To an extent, the implication that wizards value their secrecy and privilege over Muggle lives was always there in the original series. Even when Voldemort's supporters were pretty much declaring open season on Muggles during the final two books, none of the good-guy wizards ever considered informing them of the truth despite them finding out what's going on being the best way for Muggles to protect themselvesnote For one thing, the Muggle government could have coordinated with the Order of the Phoenix by combining their resources, and the Muggle Military and the Aurors and/or the Order of the Phoenix could have worked together to track down and kill/capture as many Death Eaters as possible. This could have given the good guys a major advantage over the Death Eaters; even if they don't have magic, Muggles can still fight and kill wizards (and given wizards' general ignorance of Muggle technology, it being used to combat the Death Eaters and Voldemort could have totally blindsided them), and the Muggle population outnumbers the Wizard population. Notably, Dumbledore reaches out diplomatically to a tiny enclave of murderous giants who hate wizards and kill each other for fun, but never considers reaching out to Muggles despite knowing full-well that the Death Eaters want to wipe all of them out. In fact, the only explanation we ever get for why wizards even maintain The Masquerade in the first place is Hagrid briefly claiming that they don't want to use their magic to solve Muggle problems in the first book. While the apparent moral was pretty ugly, the story never really dwelt much on the relationship between wizards and Muggles, which made it easy to ignore or handwave. Crimes of Grindelwald just made it explicit how far their callous indifference went and made it part of the central conflict, rather than a mere implication. It also didn't help that the 1990s were generally seen as a pretty stable era, which made a noninterventionist policy feel somewhat defensible to readers, while the '30s and '40s (and, adding in Reality Subtext, The New '10s) were not.
What exactly is the complaint here? Is the writer complaining that the wizards (and by extension, Rowling herself) chose not to reveal the existence of the wizarding world, even though that was never on Rowling's plans for the series? I'm no Harry Potter expert, but I'm sure the characters and Rowling have explained plenty of times why revealing the existence of the wizarding world to Muggles would be a bad idea. What should we do about this?
openSweeney Todd Literature
Hello! I'm someone who's familiar with Sweeney Todd despite not having seen the musical and only saw clips of the Tim Burton movie adaptation, but has found the penny dreadful the musical and film are adapted from.
However, something about one of the pages bothers me. Even though the original tale titled The String of Pearls is listed as the original source, there is no page/article regarding it by itself, if that makes sense.
Personally, as a literature enthusiast myself and someone who likes looking into stories and authors I don't know of and acquire them to read, I find it disappointing the book isn't a topic.
Is it possible to create a page/article concerning The String of Pearls, even if only to give the written story itself the credit it's due?
openWhen is Spider-Man and Superman gonna get a self demonstrating article Literature
Question supes and spidey had one, but now they dont could this change one day?
openMore from Unbuilt Trope Literature
(The original entry is two bullets at the bottom of LONG list of "teen dystopia" sub-genre entry)
- The Hunger Games itself is a Trope Codifier for the YA Dystopia Novel note Though The Giver and Uglies both predate it, it started the trend more properly , and has many deconstructive elements, thanks to its author being very fond of deconstructor fleets. After all, the dystopia depicted isn't that much worse than the resistance, the Love Triangle is a ploy for attention by the villains, and most of the second book is spent exploring how the main character's psyche has been affected by the events of the first rather than a further adventure.
Ignoring how it's include as Trope Codifier (But is it? The note only claims it "started the trend more properly", not how it codifies the genre), the fact that it outright say "its author being very fond of deconstructor fleets" make me think it's more of "early deconstruction" than actual Unbuilt Trope.
Edited by Kuruniopenexample arguing with itself Literature
The Dune example under "Literature" on War for Fun and Profit is arguing with itself. I don't know anything about the series beyond half-paying attention to the movie and TV Tropes examples. Could someone who does know please fix?
openMark Twain YMMV Literature
Please unlock the YMMV for Mark Twain. I intend to crosswick an approved CM entry for a work which does not exist on the wiki.
- Complete Monster (King Leopold's Soliloquy): King Leopold presents himself as a vicious hypocrite and sanctimonious tyrant who subjects the Free State of the Congo to horrific depravity. Having countless people killed and entire regions depopulated, Leopold demands high taxes and production rates from his supposed subjects, cutting off limbs or even castrating others who cannot meet them. Having people tortured and murdered in huge numbers, Leopold notes one of his mistakes was to have sixty innocents crucified and remarks fewer people would care if he'd them skinned. Uncaring of anything but lining his pockets, Leopold shows his only sympathy is to himself, indifferent to the half-million corpses he has left in his rush for money.
openFire and Blood Designated Hero Literature
I feel like the YMMV for Fire and Blood calling Jaehaerys a Designated Hero is wrong and should be removed because 1) Jaehaerys did plenty of legitimately great things for Westeros. 2) It was Baelon who let Alyssa humiliate Vaegon in the training yard. 3) Jaehaerys sending Vaegon to the Citadel was something Vaegon himself was happy to do. 4) Saera and her male consorts were legitimately awful people and Jaehaerys treated his daughter very well until he learned of her many misdeeds. 5) Jaehaerys had a good argument as to why trying to bring back Saera from Lys would cause nothing but trouble and correctly guessed that his daughter wanted nothing more to do with her family. 6) Arranged marriages like the ones Daella and Viserra had are commonplace amongst Westeros nobility. And 7) Westeros is an inherently male oriented culture and Jaehaerys passing over Rhaenys as his successor, while sexist, would be the expected choice for him to make.
Edited by Chubzhac

Hello fellow Tropers!
So I have a novel due for publication on 9/4/2018 through a small press and wanted to make a page for it. I've been staying away from any YMMV tropes because it felt a bit narcissistic to try and point out a "Crowning moment of Awesome" or "Tear Jerker" lol. I wondered about two things
1. Is there a way of creating a draft of a page? I wanted to work on it on my downtime but would prefer to not make it visible until the publication date.
2. I mentioned the YMMV tropes being avoided earlier, are there more types of tropes you would recommend I don't add myself as the writer of the book?
Thank you!