Have a question about how the TVTropes wiki works? No one knows this community better than the people in it, so ask away! Ask the Tropers is the page you come to when you have a question burning in your brain and the support pages didn't help.
It's not for everything, though. For a list of all the resources for your questions, click here. You can also go to this Directory thread
for ongoing cleanup projects.
Ask the Tropers is for:
- General questions about the wiki, how it works, and how to do things.
- Reports of problems with wiki articles, or requests for help with wiki articles.
- Reports of misbehavior or abuse by other tropers.
Ask the Tropers is not for:
- Help identifying a trope. See TropeFinder.
- Help identifying a work. See MediaFinder.
- Asking if a trope example is valid. See the Trope Talk forum.
- Proposing new tropes. See TropeLaunchPad.
- Making bug reports. See QueryBugs.
- Asking for new wiki features. See QueryWishlist.
- Chatting with other tropers. See our forums.
- Reporting problems with advertisements. See this forum topic.
- Reporting issues on the forums. Send a Holler instead.
Ask the Tropers:
openNo Title Anime
Ryo Bakura is kind of misleading since it seems to be a page for Abridged!Yami Bakura.
Edited by SeptimusHeapopen Schwarzenmarken: Selfish Love Anime
I feel some of the points made contradicted one another and the fact that selfish love is a very loose term that technically can be interpreted differently. As I felt her love wasn't all that selfish as if you saw your crush falling for someone else I think many people would become selfish. So what is your definition of selfish love and why did you believe she was since I never got the feeling that she wanted to own him.
Edited by F4LIXopenJerkass Woobie Anime
Hello,
There seems to be a disagreement between me and another trope in regard to Jerkass Woobie.
I wrote this entry:
- To an extent, Frieza. His life was completely destroyed after his defeat to Goku on Namek, which was Goku's intention when he spared his life. He devotes his life in getting revenge on Goku, which causes him to be killed by Future Trunks on Earth. He then spends almost twenty years in Hell, being tormented by stuff toys and fairies who have parades around him, while he's trapped in a cocoon hanging from a cherry tree in a field full of flowers, with all his great power stripped away. When he's revived by the Earth's Dragon Balls, all he can think about is revenge, abandoning his failing empire, and decides to train for the first time in his life to unleashed all of his latent power. He successes and becomes powerful enough to overwhelm Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku thanks to his golden transformation. However, since he never mastered his ultimate form, his energy burns out before he can kill Goku and he's humiliated by Vegeta who beats him out of his golden form. Even when he seemingly gets the last laugh by blowing up the Earth, Whis rewinds time on him and gives Goku the opportunity to kill him. He's then sent straight back to Hell, where he will remained forever until he's reborn and lose all of his memories of his past life. Despite being an irredeemable monster, you can't help feel a little sorry for him.
A troper erased it with this edit, Frieza brought all of that on himself, no one feels sorry for him in the least.
I put back the entry and explained that I have seen fans hold this opinion about Frieza's fate, despite agreeing that he is a Complete Monster. And since Jerkass Woobie is an YMMV trope, it fits since there are fans that think, 'he's a bastard, but harsh'.
The entry was erased again wit this reason: This may be your opinion but 99% of the fanbase agrees Frieza got what was coming to him and he's long, long past sympathy. He's the most evil character in the entire franchise and his fans like him for how demented, cruel and genocidial he is.
Again, this isn't really my opinion. This is opinions I have seen among the fandom. I admit, I am not sure if someone who falls under Complete Monster can also be a Jerkass Woobie and I don't want to edit war, so I will bring it here.
open Can we please, please, please stop calling Evangelion a deconstruction? Anime
The concepts of "deconstruction" and "reconstruction" on this site are ludicrously vague to begin with, and Evangelion is one of those series that, while good, also ends up having people project a lot of assumptions on it that aren't necessarily true. And the whole "deconstruction" thing isn't the only bit either, tons of people were really anal retentive about the religious symbology until Anno or whoever just came out and said they were doing it because it was exotic and sounded cool.
A lot of the concepts in Evangelion that people seem to think are revolutionary and "deconstructive" were already thoroughly explored, warts and all, in the genre's infancy in the same way that people find so amazing in Evangelion itself. Astro Boy, Great Mazinger, Zambot 3, Ideon... Hell, even Combattler V which wasn't that much to write home about still could've been argued to "deconstruct" the combining mecha subgenre it set up in its first episode when the leads weren't able to actually combine and work together as a team because they had only just met and hadn't bonded in the slightest. I think the real cause for this is simply Evangelion was one of the highest-profile mecha series of the 90s and one of the ones most likely for people to see one way or another. And from it and its dark subject matter, assumptions were made about the old mecha shows of the 70s and 80s and somewhere along the line, bam. Deconstruction label got slapped on it and everyone just assumed it was true when, as far as I can tell, there's never been official recognition and confirmation of this idea. Same with people thinking Metal Gear Solid 2 was supposed to be some amazing masterpiece of Post-Modernism.
Granted there is still a mountain of analysis to it especially in the final third when Anno really got into the concept of psychology as he was coming out of his depression. But every time I see a page where something in Evangelion is marked as a deconstruction, or that Gao Gai Gar was meant to rebel against its trends and Gurren Lagann in turn was in turn Gainax recognizing that they got the message, what that's really telling me is someone is making a lot of claims about the genre with a lot of undeserved, unwarranted, and unfounded certainty.
Edited by SteamopenDragon Ball Super Anime
Sorry, but there is a problem in the https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/YMMV/DragonBallSuper
. A troper named Monsund added some stuff to the YMMV that was based off of misinformation. Long story short, the troper added information and tropes for the Pilaf Gang such as Unintentionally Un Sympathetic and Moral Event Horizon. The misinformation being that they stole or took the last wish before Piccolo was killed in the Future Trunks' timeline. When in truth, they gathered the Dragon Balls on their own and made a wish that happened to be the final wish Shenron granted before dying. So they rightfully found the Dragon Balls and made their wish.
I know the YMMV is opinion base, but the information is factually incorrect and Unintentionally Un Sympathetic is misused since the person they're blaming isn't the one who caused the situation, nor is the character made sympathetic to begin with. And Moral Event Horizon is just crazy since even if their wish was selfish, they rightfully found all the Dragon Balls and had the right to make any wish they wanted, while the good guys tried to steal the wish.
Again, since any further action on my part is edit warring, I leave it to the mods to decide who's right in this.
Edited by Ramona122003openArchEnemy Anime
Hello,
Me and another troper are having a disagreement about an Arch-Enemy entry on https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/DragonBallSuper
.
This is the entry in question:
- He's also beginning to shape up as one to Vegeta as well, considering that Vegeta has made it a point to come after and kill him after Black went after his family. Black returns none of these feelings and just see Vegeta as a Warm-Up Boss.
The 'he' in this case is Black. The disagreement is whether Vegeta sees Black as an Arch-Enemy. I think he does because Vegeta has shown several times that he wants to kill Black for killing Future Bulma and tormenting Future Trunks. He even says that he will pay after isolating himself in Episode 51. The other trope doesn't think Vegeta holds a personal grudged since his reaction seemed mild compared to Goku and Frieza. Which isn't really valid in my opinion.
So, I would like to get some feedback on what others think.
openNothing to do with Creator Killer? Anime
I'm genuinely confused as to how this doesn't have anything to do with Creator Killer. I mean it, I thought it was an example from the minute I learned of it. Maybe the second half of the example doesn't have anything to do with the trope (and in fact would feel more at home under Old Shame), but I'm positive the first half has at least some link to the trope.
- The screenplay for Pokémon 3 has been blamed for killing series showrunner Takeshi Shudo's career. For him, the way the ending, which was supposed to have been ambiguous, was interpreted by the scriptwriter marked the beginning of the end. For the rest of his life, he had no kind word to say about the movie itself, going on record as saying that were his mother alive and missing he would never have even thought about abducting another's.
opencharacter image assistance Anime
Hi, I'm requesting assistance with adding a character image to Yan-Min's folder on the Venus Academy page, because her role has become major enough to warrant it. The image I'd suggest is this one.
I figured I'd ask here, since I'm unable to do it myself. Any help would be appreciated.
openBroken Ace Anime
Another trope and I are having a disagreement about whether or not Goku Black fits under Broken Ace. This is the entry in question:
- Broken Ace: When he was Zamasu, he was an up and coming Supreme Kai who was promoted from a regular Kai. His fighting talent was so great that he was only a little weaker than Super Saiyan 2 Goku, after he'd absorbed god energy and whose base from is stronger than Super Buu. After losing to Goku in a friendly sparring match, his sanity shattered and he becomes obsessed with Goku and spreading his form of justice. To that end, he murdered his master to get the Time Ring, takes Goku's body using the Super Dragon Balls, and then murders Goku and his family. Although Zamasu, now Goku Black, is stronger than he ever was before, he isn't sane anymore, especially with his rapid mood-swings. He is also still obsessed with Goku to the point of mimicking his mannerisms, fighting style, and techniques.
Snowy 66 comment out the trope under this edit: : Broken Ace is very specific. They need to be The Ace on the surface like a mask, but on the inside they're something completely different, either full of self loathing or a hidden villain. Black doesn't use The Ace persona as a mask, he completely shows his true colors.
Thing is, he kind of does giving that he stole someone else's identity, name, is still sore about losing a sparring match. He's also not sane despite trying to act like he is.
openWeird Example on YMMV/PuellaMagiMadokaMagica Anime
This was under the Moe entry.
- Many fans claim that Puella Magi Madoka Magica is a feminist series, when in fact, Gen Urobochi had conceptualized the series through comparisons of girls' "hubris" and "self-righteousness" to Al-Qaeda, not to mention that the intended demographic was for an older, male audience.
I'm not sure what the point of the entry was (well besides the last part). But the point about its relationship to feminism is already mentioned elsewhere on the page (word for word in fact) and for some reason i see this entry as out of place. Should it stay?
openStatistics sources Anime
Hi, Was reading the trope page of 'This Bites' by the Cross-Brain Group (Xomniac, CV 12 Hornet and The Patient One) and it was mentioned that 'This Bites' is the number 1 rated One piece fic, the number rated Self-Insert fic and the number 9 (or 7) fic overall on Fanfiction.net. Was wondering if you could send me a link to the source page you got your statistics from?
openTo Cut or Not to Cut Anime
While adding an entry to Cross Player, I noticed that several entries for the .hack animes were in the video game folder. While moving them to the correct places, and adding namespaced links because they weren't there already, I discovered something odd.
The .hack//Roots anime doesn't actually have a page. I wouldn't sweat this normally, just add a Anime/DotHackRoots redlink and let wiki magic to the rest (I don't know the series well enough myself to trope it). That's when I saw it didn't redlink. Looking into that, it took me to an "inexact title" page w here I discovered while there's no page for the anime, there is a Tearjerker.Dot Hack Roots connected to both the main TearJerker.Anime And Manga page and to TearJerker.Dot Hack.
Given that there's no work page for it to go with, I was thinking Cut the Tearjerker.Dot Hack Roots while moving the content over to a folder in TearJerker.Dot Hack so it isn't just lost and can possibly be moved later if a .hack//Roots page does come up later.However, I wanted to double check that this was the right process or that there wasn't some other step I should look into before submitting the page to be Cut.
openHigh School DxD EX Anime
I have a quick question for those who are familiar with High School DXD. The anime's third season BorN was a setup by Ichiei Ishibumi to create the EX spin-off to fix up the anime's timeline thanks to Loki's machinations; Ishibumi himself later confirmed that any future anime seasons will adapt the light novels after the third season's debacle.
If the plotline of the anime's fourth season gets announced (most likely an adaptation of EX and volumes 9-10), what should we do about the EX entries? I want to bring this up to the community to get thoughts on the matter. Thanks.
Edited by gjjonesopenIndexing Issue on a One Piece Recap Page Anime
Recap.One Piece The Saga Of The Self Proclaimed Straw Hat Fleet is not showing itself as being indexed. At a glance everything seems fine. It's listed in an Index page (Recap.One Piece) and the pages immediately before and after it are just fine. Nothing seems wrong with the page's code, either.
openThe hidden note from Gundam Seed Destiny Anime
I'm not sure is this the right place to ask, but here goes.
There's a hidden note in Mobile Suit Gundam Seed Destiny. While I can see why it's here, it doesn't follow the style of any other notes on this very site as it's pretty demanding.
Now here' s my question, can I alter it or do I need a permission? I removed a hidden note before as I felt it was unnecessary, only to get called out by a user.
For those who are curious, here's the note.
!!Fellow tropers: TV Tropes is a wiki dedicated to compiling story and character tropes, not attesting your fiery hatred for every single aspect of a particular show. So before you add yet another complaint about Gundam SEED Destiny, take a closer look at the list; aren't there enough complaints already? Complaining isn't going to make the show better. Instead, why don't you just pour yourself some chocolate milk, pop a few anti-depressants, and re-watch Gundam SEED or another Gundam series of your choice until your crippling rage subsides.!!
openRegaridng all white entries... Anime
I found a couple spoilered entries on Anime.Pokemon The Movie Black And White. Specifically The Bad Guy Wins and Earn Your Happy Ending:
- The Bad Guy Wins: All of Damon's goals are accomplished successfully despite his Heel–Face Turn; this only means the Kingdom of the Vale was restored without the unintended and unaccounted-for side effects happening.
- Fridge Brilliance: The Dragon Force became destructive as a result of the two brothers of yore fighting their battle with Reshiram and Zekrom. It was neither the truth of collapse/the ideal of harmony that Ash bore nor the ideal of rebirth/the truth of vigilance Damon possessed that saved the Kingdom of the Vale in the end, but the cooperation between them, and between Reshiram and Zekrom in turn. Hate and zeal only destroy themselves and everything around them.
- Earn Your Happy Ending: How Damon's goals are accomplished without world destruction happening.
I am asking if the examples should be reworded or if the markup should be removed (On the one hand, Its canon status is dubious at best and it could be considered independent of the anime, a Non-Serial Movie. On the other hand the movie itself is a decade old at this point)? I will move the Fridge Brilliance bullet to the YMMV page once I edit these entries.
Edited by MorningStar1337open A lot of issues with the most recent edits on ShipTease/AnimeAndManga. Anime
I have noticed that there are a lot of issues with the most recent edits in Anime & Manga of the Ship Tease page, based on its History
, specifically with the most recent edits for Naruto and One Piece. There are very long-winded entries, non-neutral wording employed, adding information that has long since been firmly denied by the original creators themselves, showing shipping bias towards ships that aren't canon and against ships that are canon, grammar issues, not ending the entries on a clear definitive concluding note, and overall initiating an Edit War.
The reason why this all concerns me is because *I* displayed those very same issues myself before I got banned, and now that I know everything that I did wrong, I feel that these edits really do show everything that I just explained, the things I had problems with previously. These most recent edits display the problems as shown in these Administrivia articles: Sink Hole, Conversation in the Main Page, Righting Great Wrongs, Word Cruft, How to Write an Example, Edit Reasons and Why You Should Use Them, and Handling Spoilers.
Personally, I want to revert those edits back to how they were originally written most recently before they got ruined, because those previous edits didn't add excessive information that really didn't need to be added. All of those previous edits didn't display any shipping bias or at least showed as little as possible, gave evidence to back up what was written, and each entry ended on a clear definitive concluding note. However, I don't know how to do that without causing an Edit War myself. How would I go about reverting all of those edits back and explaining that "I am reverting back to the original edits because the most recent edits caused an Edit War and showed a lot of problems that violated proper editing etiquette," in a concise neutral Edit Reason, without causing an Edit War?
Please know that I am not trying to pick a fight, and this is the first time I'm using Ask The Tropers, so I'm not completely familiar with ATT just yet. However, I do know that asking for this troper to be banned is not the right answer, and that is not what I am asking anyways. My main point is, I just noticed that the most recent edits done by that troper showed those very same problems that I myself had before I got banned, and because those are big warning signs that I did not know about until I got banned, those edits need to be dealt with or fixed/reverted as a result.
Lastly, as a side note, I still see links to scanlations in that trope page. Those need to be deleted because links to scanlations are not permitted. They are illegal and therefore need to be deleted. I plan on getting rid of those myself, though, since I made that same mistake myself and am in the process of getting rid of all the links I've ever inserted, so the main issues I have with the edits in this page (issues which I wrote about above) are what I'm more focused on here.
Edited by mouschilightopenGetting rid of Shipping Bias / Reporting two tropers Anime
If you guys don't mind, this is a twofer post that actually goes hand-in-hand. Also, I apologize in advance because this is a long post, but I need to give a lot of information so that you'll understand where I'm going with this.
So I already called for RandomX to be reported in my previous ATT post
, for, among a lot of reasons, shipping bias. I saw shipping bias in their Naruto entry for First Kiss. On August 14th, matruz removed the shipping bias and provided an Edit Reason explaining why it was removed—to paraphrase, "because saving someone's life with CPR does not equate to a kiss, and as an experienced medical ninja Sakura had to have performed CPR on other subjects before Naruto in order to perfect the procedure, so Naruto is not her First Kiss." Also, it's long since been confirmed in the manga and from post-series interviews with creator Masashi Kishimoto himself that Sakura loves Sasuke and not Naruto, and Naruto rejected Sakura in Chapter 469 of the manga. When Sakura performed CPR on him during the War, about 200 chapters after Chapter 469, she was trying to save his life, not trying to kiss him, so it comes off as more of a friendship moment than a romantic one; plus, Naruto wasn't conscious when she performed CPR on him, so it wasn't mutual. Naruto is shown kissing only two people in Canon: Sasuke in Chapter 3 (both he and Sasuke are visibly shown to not enjoy it, due it being an Accidental Kiss), and Hinata in The Last: Naruto the Movie (which is explicitly the first canon movie of the franchise—an advertisement that was published with the final two manga chapters officially called the movie "Chapter 699.5". Here's the proof
). Regarding the kiss with Hinata, Naruto initiates it and is visibly shown enjoying giving her The Big Damn Kiss at the end of the movie, so that was his First Kiss with a girl and also his first mutual and romantic kiss. Based on these facts that I related directly from canon events (and I even provided the manga chapters and the advertisement picture as proof), I agreed with matruz's Edit Reason to remove the shipping bias. However, on September 5th, Trustworthy69 re-inserted the shipping bias that matruz removed, and gave no Edit Reason explaining why it was re-inserted. Edit Reason or not, that is an Edit War on Trustworthy69's part.
Not only that, but I also see shipping bias in Falling into His Arms and Kiss of Life, from EarsplittingLepidopteran. For Falling into His Arms, the description states that it's a very romantic trope, but EarsplittingLepidopteran deleted the Minato/Kushina example (which was romantic) and inserted Naruto saving Sakura and being stabbed by her poisoned kunai (which was not romantic. This event also occurred in Chapter 484, 15 chapters after Naruto rejected Sakura, which makes it even less romantic), and then the way this person worded their completely blanked-out spoiler-tag entry (which is not allowed, according to Handling Spoilers) sounds like shipping bias, so it did not employ neutral wording. The Kiss of Life Naruto entry written by EarsplittingLepidopteran also claims the First Kiss issue, but as I explained in my previous paragraph, and as matruz's Edit Reason stated in the Ship Tease Anime and Manga page and in First Kiss, an experienced medical ninja would have performed and perfected the CPR procedure long before Naruto, so he was not her First Kiss, and she loves Sasuke and was trying to save Naruto's life, but he was unconscious and he already rejected her in Chapter 469, so it was not mutual. Also, Naruto finally woke up from unconsciousness not from Sakura's CPR, but rather from the Sage of Six Paths giving Naruto his powers; this was shown in Chapters 671 and 672. Therefore, the Kiss of Life Naruto entry is not a valid example.
Getting to the point of my post, based on what I have said: 1) The Naruto entries for First Kiss, Falling into His Arms, and Kiss of Life should be reworded to be neutral and display no shipping bias, or even some entries should be removed because they do not follow the criteria from the trope's description(s). 2) If this has not been done already, EarsplittingLepidopteran should be called in/reported for shipping bias and lack of neutral wording, and Trustworthy69 should be called in/reported for shipping bias, lack of neutral wording, and Edit Warring.
Here's the edit history for the aforementioned three tropes: Falling Into His Arms
, First Kiss
, and Kiss Of Life
.
Here's the edit history for EarsplittingLepidopteran
, and here's the edit history for Trustworthy69
.
I will not do anything with those three aforementioned tropes until I get feedback from a more knowledgeable troper and/or a moderator.
Edited by mouschilight

This time, instead of the barrage of SB 69 themed questions here and on Trope Finder I'm gonna post something else. I found this Mary Sue entry on YMMV.Himouto Umaru Chan:
The Wall of Text that is the subbullet seems to reek of Justifying Edit. And I wnat opinion on what to do with this.