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openPoor Grammar edits
Stardust 120 has been making edits with poor grammar and despite having previously been notified in a previous ATT, and myself via PM, still is having issues with grammar.
At this point, they may need more direct intervention.
openPreviews too recent to add?
YMMV.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic IDW Issue 100 To 102
- Author's Saving Throw: After Discord being white washed and made a wimp in comparison to the title villain in the Cosmos Arc drew much ire from fans, his pre-redemption self is once again depicted as being as cunning and monstrous as he was originally depicted. Namely, he manipulated no less than four countries into going to war with the Knights of Harmony's homeland and saw them as 'new toys' when they showed up.
- It's the Same, So It Sucks: The fact that it was caused by Discord again likewise didn't help with most fans getting annoyed writers keep making these crisises his fault. It's only alleviated that this one was at least before his Heel–Face Turn and not a deliberate action as in the TV Finale.
This is from the 3-page preview, it's releasing in a week. Does this means the AST violates it being no prerelease and/or the ITSSIS better fits Tainted by the Preview (I think it's unlikely there's room in the comic for the rest to change these but it's still possible).
I also ask if It's the Same, So It Sucks is the best fit for such complaints as half the entry is noting key differences and the AST notes some are happy with this villainy. I'd say cut for now as too soon to say how it will play out/go over in the final product. Maybe Never Live It Down or similar would fit better as the complains are less about similarities/tired cliches than it bringing up memories of something contentious despite very different and mitigating circumstances that are otherwise well received.
openSpoiler policy for fanfics
When troping fanfics, how should we treat spoilers for things that happened in canon? Do we treat them as, well, spoilers? Or do we assume that whoever is reading the page is familiar with whatever media the fanfic is for and thus only hide spoilers for the fanfic itself?
openJohn Phoenix
So...Two different issues regarding the same fic.
The Adventures of John Phoenix was removed from the Ace Attorney Fanfic Recs here
by Mr-Coffee, with the reason "troll fic/not Ace Attorney charactter." I'm not sure this was a valid removal, for two reasons:
1. I don't recall there being a "No Troll Fic" rule for fic recs
. The only thing I see is that it needs to be noted as such, but I don't see anyhting saying they're not allowed (please inform me if I'm missing it).
2. "Not Ace Attorney character" doesn't seem like a valid removal for any fic rec—that would mean any OC fics aren't allowed to be recommended.
The other issue is that the page
for the fic itself is frankly just a mess. No alphabetization, punctuation and capitalization issues, etc. The character page should just be cut, because it's just a list of names with no tropes.
openStaving off potential(?) edit war
On AwesomeMusic.Psychonauts 2, on 3 September, editor Andyroid added a quote from lyrics in italics. Per Text Formatting Rules, and specifically the rule saying "Do not italicize the text of the quote itself, except parts of it for emphasis." in the "Quotes Formatting" folder, I removed the italics on 5 September, noting in the edit reason that quotes from lyrics don't go in italics. On 30 September, Andyroid added the italics back without an edit reason.
It's not a hill I'm interested in dying on; any recommendations?
openDisputed Example on Dated History
I deleted the following example from Dated History because it was utterly pointless ("we thought this, but then someone said otherwise, but then that person was disproven" does not count as an example and is just cluttering up the page). Someone else put it back. Verdict?
- "No Irish need apply" signs were once thought to be a common sight across the United States until Richard J. Jensen wrote a 2002 paper arguing that they were mostly a myth and there was no significant anti-Irish discrimination in the American job market except by a handful of English immigrants who still held the Hibernophobic sentiments common in their homeland. That being said, this paper was itself disproven in a 2015 rebuttal by 8th-grade student Rebecca A. Fried, who listed numerous instances of American signs and advertisements bearing the phrase between the 1840s and the early 20th century.
openUncertain Audience examples?
Questions about the validity of the following Uncertain Audience examples:
YMMV.My Little Pony The Movie 2017: One reason for its mediocre reception. Fans of the show were less than impressed with the lack of continuity past Season 4 and it not doing anything the show hadn't done better prior, while non-fans who wouldn't mind or appreciate the lack of Continuity Lock-Out still had little reason to care for The Movie if they weren't already interested in the show.
Animation Lead Time meant this was due to it being written right after Season 4 and wouldn't be able to include later continuity beyond cameos if it wanted. If it was not caused by a deliberate chose by the writers on which audience to target does UA count? If not is there anything it does fall under?
YMMV.Fantastic Beasts The Crimes Of Grindelwald: A common complaint from critics, especially after the underwhelming box office receipts came back. Unlike Harry Potter, which focused on kid heroes and self-contained adventures with interesting lore and scope underneath, Crimes of Grindelwald is heavy on backstory, exposition, and lore, but does little in advancing its own story or major arcs forward. Thus, detractors of the film point out it lacks the elements that appealed to young audiences in the original films while also being downright impenetrable to anyone who doesn't have a Ph.D. in Wizarding World mythology. This is cited as one of the reasons Warner Bros. halted production on the third to give Rowling more time to figure out how to remedy this.
This sounds like it put off general audiences, but fails to explain how those it was supposed to appeal to (like those with a "Ph.D. in Wizarding World mythology") were put off by the work as well. Is there a reason they were so put off (normally don't care for the movies?) or should this just be moved to Continuity Lock-Out?
openNew Self-Demonstrating Page
I want to make a new Self-Demonstrating page on Snapcube’s Dr. Eggman (“I’VE COME TO MAKE AN ANNOUNCEMENT”) Should I do that, and how do I do it?
openContinuity Error or too soon to say?
WesternAnimation.My Little Pony A New Generation:
- Continuity Snarl: In spite of being a loose continuation of Friendship is Magic, the movie's plot point of magic being gone creates a lot of small conflicts with the show's worldbuilding, chiefly centering on how G4 depicted both the day-night cycle and the day-to-day managing of nature and the weather as being dependent on active magic, despite their being still running in the movie, and on how when the pony tribes were divided and hostile in G4's own backstory this didn't cause a loss of magic as it did here.
- Series Continuity Error: While there are many, many references to Generation 4 due to this being a Sequel Series, there are some things that don't line up, particularly the fact that here ponies only have their cutie marks on their right side when in Friendship is Magic ponies have them on both sides.
- What Happened to the Mouse?: In Generation 4, it's shown that disharmony between the three pony races summons ghostly, horse-like creatures known as Windigos that feed on their negative emotions and turn Equestria into an icy wasteland. Here, the three races living apart and believing the worst of each other seems to have eliminated magic entirely, with no hint of the Windigos ever being a problem, though it's possible they were destroyed at the end of Friendship is Magic.
It's possible, if not likely given the Continuity Nods, these seeming Continuity Errors will be explained in the upcoming series. Should they thus be moved to What Happened to the Mouse?
Speaking of Mouse, does/should it only apply to unresolved elements brought up in the work itself or can it include such regarding prior installments?
And/or should any of this be moved to Fridge/Headscratchers as too soon to say if it will be addressed later or not? How long should we give before it's safe to assume the former two will remain unresolved thus counting as Error and Snarl. And should the Snarl be moved to Error as Snarl is caused by complex/convoluted continuity (the difference between Error and Snarl was brought to cleanup but I believe that stalled out)?
openWhat is the best way to handle this particular indentation problem (** bullet after quote)?
So we have this example here:
- Ambiguous Gender: Their appearance is notably very gender-neutral, and they are referred to with gender-neutral pronouns. They even point this out on Twitter that any pronouns doesn't matter
.
Omegaα: He/She/It/They anything. It does not matter.- It should be noted that some of the talents uses different pronouns. Kronii herself identifies Omega as male due to their androgynous appearance while Ollie identifies them as female.
Now, according to Example Indentation in Trope Lists, this is bad indentation and it should be fixed. I can think of two solutions, but I don't know which one is better.
- Ambiguous Gender: Their appearance is notably very gender-neutral, and they are referred to with gender-neutral pronouns. They even point this out on Twitter that any pronouns doesn't matter
.
Omegaα: He/She/It/They anything. It does not matter.- It should be noted that some of the talents uses different pronouns. Kronii herself identifies Omega as male due to their androgynous appearance while Ollie identifies them as female.
- Ambiguous Gender:
- Their appearance is notably very gender-neutral, and they are referred to with gender-neutral pronouns. They even point this out on Twitter that any pronouns doesn't matter
.
Omegaα: He/She/It/They anything. It does not matter. - It should be noted that some of the talents uses different pronouns. Kronii herself identifies Omega as male due to their androgynous appearance while Ollie identifies them as female.
- Their appearance is notably very gender-neutral, and they are referred to with gender-neutral pronouns. They even point this out on Twitter that any pronouns doesn't matter
Any opinions?
Edited by AsoktencheaopenOnly real content of ''Film/BrightOnes'' is plagiarism Film
I stumbled across Bright Ones and DM'd the creator, Murphy Trope to suggest he add some tropes as it had none. Digging a little deeper, all the text apart from the opening line is taken directly from the film's official synopsis
. If you remove the plagiarised text you're left with a promotional image and the text "Bright Ones is a 2019 Christian musical film that is based on Bethel Music."
What's the best way to tackle this? I've not seen the film so I can't fix it myself.
openIs it okay to make a self demonstrating page for Superman? Print Comic
I've been thinking about creating a self-demonstrating page for Superman but it's been said that it's been cut because it's "redundant". I mean, Most of Superman's supporting cast has a couple, so why not him? Is it okay to re-create one?
open Rewriting of the Pelo thing + Apology Web Original
So what would that trope be called where a media creator is like Gordon Ramsay (mean in the show, nice in real life) but only to their fictional creations to the point where not even the creator themself is aware?
And what's the trope where thanks to a creator being like "Please stop making that", even if it was said once and politely, the fanbase was like "Let's just make more of it to spite them!"
I honestly think the latter should be called "A Waiter at a 5-Star Trolls-Only Restaurant".
And sorry about my rambling on Pelo being a bad father figure. I mean I know he's not actually controversial, but I just felt like saying that only for sardonic purposes. But I apologize if it ended up being more harsh, and I'd only actually mean it if Pelo did do something legit controversial, which he didn't.
But in all honesty, I believe those two tropes would apply to all mediums, and not just web shows.
openAvoiding a possible edit war
Since there is a possible edit war, I decided to ask here.
- Draco in Leather Pants:
- Varian gained a large fangirl following from the start, so when he started Jumping Off the Slippery Slope and became a full-fledged villain by the end of the first season, many excuses began being made for him, with many refusing to call him a truly bad guy because "he just wants to free his father". Though it may be true that Varian's situation was something no minor should have to go through, especially with him losing his only remaining family member and being abandoned and cast out by all of Corona, including his "friends", it was still due to his own mistakes that his father got sealed in amber in the first place, and his serious crimes and offenses were undoubtedly unacceptable. He directs a good chunk of his wrath towards Queen Arianna, whom he threatens and abducts despite her attempting only kindness towards him, and he implies that if his plan to free Quirin had actually been a success, he intended to terrorize Corona and destroy the kingdrom anyway for revenge purposes. Even in his reappearance in the Season 3 premiere, it's clear that in-universe Varian himself does not see his past actions as excusable or forgivable, hence trying to literally wipe the slate clean with everyone. This is expanded upon in subsequent episodes like "Be Very Afraid" and "Cassandra's Revenge", where Varian further admits that his actions at the end of Season 1 - trying to murder Rapunzel, Arianna and Cassandra out of spite - were completely out of line, and he's now deeply disturbed by what he's capable of.
Recently, the entry was deleted
with the reason, "I think it's covered better under Unintentionally Sympathetic." Well, I don't think so: US doesn't and shouldn't cover justifying or ignoring a character's evil acts, and that's what quite a few people in this fandom do regarding this one. Rumbly as it is, the entry points out that the character's ordeal is a result of his own recklessness, and he tries to murder innocent people out of spite; deleting the entry and saying he's just so sympathetic smells like DILP in practice. Or maybe I'm just being paranoid.
Previously, this entry was deleted by an apologist troper that eventually got banned
, then restored by The Cool Kat 1995, then deleted again by the apologist troper ban-evading
, then restored by me reverting the ban evader's edits. There probably was even more back-and-forth: YMMV.Tangled The Series has a long and dramatic edit history.
So, while I believe the entry is legit, I'm concerned about getting into an edit war if I add it back again.
If the entry is to be restored, I suggest condensing it somewhat:
- When Varian becomes a villain by the end of the first season, many of his massively numbered fangirls side with him and refuse to call him a bad guy because to them, he is just an innocent child wanting to free his father. True, he is a teenager, and he loses his only remaining family and stays alone for an unspecified amount of time. However, it is Varian's own careless experiment that gets his father sealed in amber, and even Rapunzel's magic hair is shown to be useless against it. Yet, just like Varian himself, his fans often blame his entire situation on Rapunzel, her friends and family, and all of Corona believing that he is completely justified in trying to murder them out of spite. In his reappearance in Season 3, Varian himself comes to admit that his actions at the end of Season 1 were completely out of line, and he's now deeply disturbed by what he's capable of.
Edit: And now, possible ban evasion.
Edited by TenebrikaopenPreventing an edit war on Characters.NickelodeonAllStarBrawl Videogame
This is rather belated, but it's something I wanted some feedback on to prevent an edit war.
About three weeks ago, I saw an example on Characters.Nickelodeon All Star Brawl without a citation:
The game in question still hasn't been released yet, so I commented it out
since it lacked a citation, along with a small tag explaining this (in addition to the edit reason). At the time, I did not remember the source.
Twelve days later
, ravioliluigi uncommented it out and slightly altered it with the following edit reason:
- Citation? What citation, the proof is right there in the trailer lol its a legit reference, that said I'm pretty sure that's his taunt
In spite of this, they did not add a citation in the example itself, going against the guidelines explained in Administrivia.Creating A Work Page For An Upcoming Work:
- When writing an example, make sure you are noting the source. Because the finished work is not available yet, it is not your source of information. Your source is [Trailer A], [Poster B], the open beta, the E3 demo, etc., so your example should cite that: "In [Trailer A]..."
I sent them a notifier explaining the policy not long after their edit. However, in the interim, I remembered where the animation in question can be seen: this short teaser for a Gamescom character reveal
. I could add the necessary citation to the example, but I wanted to make sure that this would not constitute an edit war.
openShould I start a TRS thread for History's Crime Wave?
So, after a discussion on the Laconic Improvement thread
, I figured that something might need to be done with History's Crime Wave. The trope itself says it's about whenever a work uses a historical villain (i.e Hitler and Caligula). However, the title, image, and several of its examples led me to interpret it as "historical villains teaming up". I even based its laconic off it and added a mention of Archived Army as well. On the discussion
, there's a Troper (I assume is the sponsor) mentioning they need some help on the description and whether or not it should be merged with Archived Army. This suggests, that my interpretation might've been what the trope is supposed to be.
I brought it up on the Trope Description Improvement Thread too, but I got no response on that. So, should I start a TRS thread for this?
NOTE: I also looked in the TLP launch list but I found no mention of History's Crime Wave there (the page was created on February 20th, 2012), however, I just learned it's common for pages published around 2007-2012 to not have any kind of TLP history.
EDIT: Added an update regarding its lack of TLP history.
Edited by Cutegirl920fireopen Quotes.TheHorseshoeEffect -- breeding ground for bad faith "both-sidesing"
Quotes.The Horseshoe Effect is picking up a lot of quotes which can be summed up as bad faith "both-sidesing" on political issues.
For those unaware "The Horseshoe Effect" is a political theory that both extreme-left (Communist state) and extreme-right (Fascist state) are basically the same thing (Authoritative Tyranny). For example, comparing the "extreme collectivism" of Japan, where you're supposed to follow the group or be shunned and shamed....with the "extreme individualism" of the US, where you're supposed to follow the ideal of being your own person or be shunned and shamed.
However, the theory has major problems with being misused as an argument for extreme centrism (aka Golden Mean Fallacy) or as a method of "Whataboutism" and "Both-sidesing" on issues like social justice or systemic oppression.
For example, quite a few claiming that being racist and caring about racism are the same thing.
I don't think the entire page needs to be scrubbed, but I wouldn't lose sleep over it. But I do think something needs to be done to clean up the page, and I didn't want to make unilateral decisions.

Stumbled across this. It seems weird we have a page for a roleplay using the system but don't have one for the system itself? Is this normal?
Dawn of Worlds