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open Could we consider reviving "Adaptational Weight Loss"?
A few months ago, I made a post
about creating an Inverted Trope to Adaptational Curves. Most of the comments were mixed - some thought the idea might be good, while others considered it pointless.
But then I remembered that someone already made a trope related to it - Adaptational Weight Loss
(which I brought up in my post) by KJ Mackley. Unfortunately, the project was abandoned the same day it was conceptualized, with the troper themself being inactive since 2021.
It's a shame since this trope had so much potential to fit with the other inverted "Adaptation(al) X" examples that Adaptational Curves lacked. So I thought to myself that "maybe I should adopt this trope and revise it a bit". After all, there have been some tropes stuck at the TLP that have been adopted by other users, so it would make sense to for me adopt this trope that has been discarded for almost 5 years at this point. Please note that I'm not disrespecting the original troper; I'm only doing this because how much potential this trope has.
openhow much natter is allowed on headscratchers? Videogame
Parts of The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom is reading like a micro-forum as people add replies.
See the entire folder below I pulled from the page (reminder: contains unmarked spoilers):
- Perhaps she doesn't want to be coronated until Hyrule is at least restored to a basically functional kingdom again? Alternatively, she may be awaiting some ceremonial age of majority (as she is still biologically a teenager) or there may even be some kind of ancient dynastic tradition requiring her to complete some ritual, quest, or even just getting married before assuming formal queenship.
- As the original question noted, she's probably not biologically a teenager as years are implied to have passed since the first game, however, it is noted at the start of the game that Hyrule Castle has fallen even further into a state of disrepair. Further, Zelda and Link have been living in a simple home together since the Calamity. Perhaps until the castle is restored Zelda can't officially become queen, or she simply sees other matters as more important for now. The nation was able to hold itself together with just its regional leaders for a hundred years, so presumably there is no hurry to crown a new king or queen.
- Neither Link nor Zelda have gotten noticeably older or taller in the interim, compared to the adult Hylians we meet they're still significantly shorter. However much time has passed between games, it seems very unlikely to have to have been the real life six years.
- Indeed, probably not six years. But Zelda was seventeen before she went into stasis with Ganon. Given Hylians grow and age like humans, she wouldn't likely get any taller (most girls have reached their max height by sixteen). Link might as men can grow for a few more years, but chances are they are both just shorter than average Hylians.
- It seems rather unlikely that both Link and Zelda would have remained exactly the same physically if significant amounts of time had passed. Further, Riju is at an age where she ought to be growing significantly were much time to have passed, and yet, hairstyle aside, she doesn't appear to have changed much. I can see little reason to assume that anything more than a handful of months have passed between the games.
- Hudson and Rhondson (who are introduced to each other by Link during Breath of the Wild) have a daughter that's old enough to read and write (and has the usual "young child" model for the Gerudo), it's undeniably that at least around 5 years have passed, any character that didn't change was just due to the designers not wanting to redesign them. As for the original Headscratchers, Zelda probably doesn't want to get crowned before she's helped the kingdom recover in a more hands on way, or something like that.
- For another bit of proof that Link is older and simply short, he's now able to order the Noble Pursuit drink from the Gerudo that he was regarded as too young for in Breath of the Wild.
- The Noble Pursuit Link can order is specifically stated to be a new recipe that all ages can enjoy; the creator even comments that normally Link would still be too young to drink the old version.
- Which just raises questions about what is it about that drink that requires such a high age. Especially when to my knowledge it is never even said to be alcoholic. Regarding Riju, she did get taller. She was about half a head shorter than Link in the previous game, but now from what I can tell is slightly taller than him.
- It probably is alcoholic, but they wouldn't be able to say as such explicitly without raising the age rating and so just had to imply it.
- As the original question noted, she's probably not biologically a teenager as years are implied to have passed since the first game, however, it is noted at the start of the game that Hyrule Castle has fallen even further into a state of disrepair. Further, Zelda and Link have been living in a simple home together since the Calamity. Perhaps until the castle is restored Zelda can't officially become queen, or she simply sees other matters as more important for now. The nation was able to hold itself together with just its regional leaders for a hundred years, so presumably there is no hurry to crown a new king or queen.
- It could be simply that a royal title doesn't have much priority for Zelda. Given how humble she is, she's probably more concerned with her reasearch, her personal life and helping out everyone, wherever she can. Given how harsh her life was as a princess prior to the calamity, she may even prefer the lifestyle as a commoner, rather than going back to being royalty.
- The above explanation is supported by the fact that Zelda has been living in Link's house in Hateno Village, while in Hyrule Castle there are no signs of her having moved back there.
- It's questionable whether the kingdom of Hyrule even exists anymore. The kingdom was destroyed over a 100 years ago, and ever since then various regions and towns of Hyrule have been self-governing units that work just fine without a higher king/queen above their regional leader. The majority of Hyrulians don't even have any memory of a unified rule, since only among the Zora is there a large number of people who were alive before the Calamity. Considering all this, maybe Zelda doesn't even want to try and restore the kingdom? What right does he have to force her rule on people who have been living without such rule for generations? The reason why everyone still calls her Princess Zelda might be out of tradition, or out of respect for her part in ending the Calamity, not because they still consider her to be their future ruler.
While I understand the game is still new and everyone including me wants to talk about it, but it feels like questions are getting derailed just because parts of the game were missed (which is reasonable given how big the game is) or just segueing into a different discussion entirely.
The original question is just over Zelda's title as princess but it's derailed into a discussion about the time gap between Tears of the Kingdom and Breath of the Wild and other parts of the game with not too much relevance beyond "Zelda should be old enough to be queen".
Is this just normal Headscratchers discussion?
Should I delete the parts that are derailing from the original question? Or should I just move the discussion into a separate folder entirely since I think discussing the game's Time Skip does have some merit.
EDIT: last-minute edit of spoilers, I haven't used this site for a while (specifically ATT) and thought my post would be cut off a little when I posted.
Edited by INeveropenRegarding the page for Every Frame A Pause
I brought this up on both the Critical Drinker
and Real Life People
cleanup threads, though I couldn't find a topic page about whether or not something is tropable.
The page for Podcast.Every Frame A Pause has a lot of issues and I'm not sure if the podcast itself is tropable. Ignoring the misused tropes I brought up on the latter cleanup thread, the podcast doesn't seem to have a narrative, the hosts aren't playing fictionalized or exaggerated versions of themselves, and the page itself is mostly troping the hosts' opinions and reactions to things.
I don't have any opinion on Every Frame A Pause beyond that its the infamous "the guys who held a 12 hour reaction stream because Jenny Nicholson hated Joker", so any input would be appreciated.
Edited by SkylaNoivernopenPotentially iffy entry on Dated History
This entry on The Holodomor was recently added to the Dated History page:
- During the Cold War, it was not uncommon for western intellectuals to assume that the infamous Holodomor famine of 1932 and 1933 was an intentional genocide against Ukraine done by Stalin's government, or that the Soviet government in some way manufactured the famine for whatever reason more generally. Various books on the topic, most famously Robert Conquest's 1986 book The Harvest of Sorrow: Soviet Collectivization and the Terror-Famine, from before the fall of the USSR promote this narrative, often pointing to official Soviet documents which to help support this case. Even ignoring that many found Conquest—who was a self-described "Cold Warrior" and open about his bias against the USSR and in favor of the west—the lack of anything to back up this notion after the fall of the Soviet Union and the release of various previously classified documents shows this to be little more than baseless speculation, with Conquest himself later making it clear he didn't view the famine to be anything more than the result of bad policy by the Soviets in his later years, although he also added that he believes it could have been prevented if Stalin had not put Soviet interests above that of feeding his people.
Now, it's definitely true that the famine may have been "merely" the result of bad agricultural policy rather than deliberately engineered by Stalin's regime. However, the Soviet government's response (selling food that could have been used to help victims to foreign countries and actively attempting to cover up what was happening) means that even if the famine wasn't intentional, it can't be called a tragic but innocent mistake. Moreover, the fact that it coincided with attempts to target Ukrainian cultural identity and the fact that Ukrainian-majority areas even outside Ukraine suffered disproportionately during the famine both heavily suggest that Stalin took advantage of it even if he didn't deliberately set out to cause it.
I'm going to give Ephrom The Josine the benefit of the doubt since I have no reason to automatically assume they wrote this to push some kind of agenda, but this entry nevertheless comes off as lacking in nuance and (especially in regard to current events) potentially insensitive. Still, if they're willing to talk things over, I'm willing to hear them out.
resolved Permission to change entry on Fanfic/MagmaDragonKing without causing an EditWar.
On March 21st, 2023, I added the following entry to Adaptational Backstory Change:
- Whereas Jellal was a genuinely heroic person once in canon before being Brainwashed and Crazy by Ultear for the better part of a decade, here he's Not Brainwashed, is just naturally twisted, and his "heroic" personality was nothing but a front he put on and then discarded in his quest for power. Kairomaru
outlined this themself when a commenter expressed their mixed feelings on Jellal's death since, beforehand, this distinction wasn't apparent in the main story itself.
- The Continuity Snarl-inducing retcon that Jellal was Brainwashed and Crazy by Ultear for the better part of a decade despite the age difference between Ultear and Jellal is removed, meaning that he's Not Brainwashed and is just naturally twisted, and his "heroic" personality was nothing but a front he put on and then discarded in his quest for power.
- The notion that the original version is a Continuity Snarl is debatable, especially when it is treated as such nowhere else on this site.
- For context, Ultear Milkovich was a member of the Dark Guild "Grimoire Heart", obsessed with trying to release The Black Wizard Zeref so they could take over the world, Ultear having been recruited by Guildmaster Hades at a young age after she escaped from a government experiment facility. One of her first jobs was obtaining one of the "keys" to unlocking Zeref by manipulating Jellal Fernandes, a child slave at the Tower Of Heaven who had led a rebellion to free the slaves there, but was shortly after brainwashed by Ultear into continuing the horrors at the Tower so that he could "revive" Zeref, feigning that she was his partner in the process. This lasted until the titular "Tower Of Heaven" arc where, after having kidnapped his old friend/love interest Erza Scarlet, Jellal fought and lost to main character Natsu Dragneel, the Tower being destroyed and Jellal believed to have died, when in truth he survived, just barely, and was freed from the brainwashing, but struck with Laser-Guided Amnesia.
- As PutotyraNoZarus's reasoning for putting it as such is unstated outside of the entries "age difference", not even providing an Edit Reason, I don't really know. The Sinful claimed in the comments for a review by Very Melon that fic author Kairomaru stated "how nonsensical he found it was that she was somehow perfectly controlling him from a distance despite being brand new to her magical studies", except I can find no record of Kairomaru saying that, and it ignores the fact that the reason Ultear was even in that experimentation facility was because of the sheer raw magic power she had since birth, and that she had spent years there being experimented on, some of which was willing since she had escaped once prior to the escape that led to her joining Grimoire Heart, but had returned of her own accord due to her own Dark and Troubled Past. Even the age difference aspect feels like flimsy reasoning since canonically, Ultear is pretty close to Jellal in age.
- Canonically, Jellal was Brainwashed and Crazy by Ultear for the better part of a decade, changing from a heroic and kind person to a ruthless and twisted monster until he was freed. Here, the latter is his natural personality, the former being a front he put on then later discarded once he had control over the Tower of Heaven himself.
open New NRLEP Crowner!
The crowner for the week of June 4 - 10 is:
- Appeal to Worse Problems - Too Controversial, attracting ROCEJ violations
- Baby Be Mine - Too Controversial (as it's a True Crime trope, namely kidnapping and often murder), Gossip, related to the NRLEP tropes Law of Inverse Fertility and Stalker with a Test Tube
- The Baby Trap - Too Controversial, a Sex trope, has attracted oddly misogynistic edits in the past, Gossip
- Big Anime Eyes - Impossible in Real Life
- Bug War - Impossible because the trope is about fighting with supernatural insect-like aliens or monsters, not real bugs
- But I Can't Be Pregnant!! - Gossip, a Sex trope, attracting misuse, ROCEJ-violating medical advice, and weirdly pedophilic anecdotes
- But We Used a Condom!! - A Sex trope, Gossip, has a history of poor examples
- Hand on Womb - Too Common
- I Do Not Like Green Eggs and Ham - Narrative/Characterization, Too Common
- I Just Shot Marvin in the Face - Too Controversial, attracting NSFW and Gossipy examples, related to the NRLEP trope Accidental Murder, continuing to attract new poor examples even after being KRLE'd last year
- Longest Pregnancy Ever - In the way that it happens in fiction Impossible (it's impossible to be pregnant for months, years past your due date and still end up with a healthy baby at the end), attracting misused examples
- Maternal Impression - Impossible in Real Life (based on a now-discredited medical theory) -
- Matricide - Too Controversial, a True Crime trope, related to other NRLEP family murder tropes
- Morning Sickness - Too Common, Narrative/Characterization because IRL this is not an instant tell that a woman is pregnant
- Pater Familicide - Too Controversial, a True Crime trope, related to other NRLEP family murder tropes
- Patricide - Too Controversial, a True Crime trope, related to other NRLEP family murder tropes
- Perverted Sniffing - A Sex trope
- Ridiculously Average Guy - Impossible in Real Life, Characterization, Stereotyping
- Self-Made Orphan - Too Controversial, a True Crime trope, related to other NRLEP family murder tropes
- Shockingly Expensive Bill - Too Common, frequently a Narrative trope
- Sibling Yin-Yang - Characterization
- Take Over the World - Too Controversial, Morality (since it's related to Generic Doomsday Villain)
- Teen Pregnancy - A Sex trope, Gossip, Too Common, related to the sexuality of minors
- Town Girls - Characterization
- Your Heart's Desire - Impossible in Real Life (since it requires a supernatural wish-granter)
openCharacter Derailment misuse
Luke Skywalker from The Last Jedi was added back to CharacterDerailment.Film despite it having a commented out note at top of the page not to add them.
I first deleted it and added the note per ATT
as it was objectively misused. Derailment is about unexplained, not unpopular changes and TLJ clearly showed and explained why he did such, so the complains around that fall under other items. Also Luke nearly killed Vader in a similar Moment of Weakness in ROTJ (why that was uncontroversial is a separate thing) so the the argument behind the Derailment entry is factually incorrect.
Have to ask here before re-removing. Derailment can still apply if fans see the reason as objectively insufficient to explain the change so might that apply here?
On the subject:
- Avengers: Endgame - or more specifically, the plot point of Steve Rogers staying in the past - is infamous for this among some critics and/or fanfic writers, saying it's selfish and him abandoning his best friend Bucky. Of course, there are also a number of people who say he deserved that ending.
Besides the last part arguing against, he got a sub-plot building up to/explaining why he did so. I'll cut this unless I hear anything.
openDuplicate work page
It seems that someone has tried to disambiguate Film.Transformers from the Franchise.Transformers page by creating a new page for the film, Film.Transformers 2007. However, the former page still exists. It seems to me that Film.Transformers should be made a redirect to Film.Transformers 2007 and the former page should be cut, but when I tried to disambiguate works myself,note with Stalker (1979) and Stalker (2014) I was told that this isn't the correct procedure when I added the old pages to the cutlist. What exactly should be done in a case like this?
resolved Trivia relevancy on Voltron: Legendary Defender Western Animation
Hello,
I was doing a Wiki Walk and i found this trivia about Voltron: Legendary Defender:
-"The Klance (Keith/Lance) fanfiction "Dirty Laundry" had the second most kudos of all fanfiction on Archive of Our Own. (It is second only to a Groot parody fic.)"
I was wondering about the relevancy of this information and if it should be removed since it's not really about the show itself and seem oddly specific to me.
What are your thoughts on this?
open Trope page uses picture from a work banned for pedo-bait.
Howdy.
I am a n00b and am trying to learn the culture of the site, so I am going to ask what may be a very obvious question.
The work Eiken has been removed from the site for being pedo-bait (or at least for sexualizing minors):
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13359551860A25597800
I discovered that this morning when editing a trope page which used an unlinked Eiken as an example. I tried to look up the work via search (I've never heard of it before this morning), and found that thread.
Because time is a flat circle, I ran across another page about half an hour later that uses an image from Eiken as the page image:
So! My question is: Is this a problem?
According to the discussion thread on Eiken, the girls in that picture are, like, 10 years old.
On the other hand, the picture itself is not itself a problem, and if I hadn't read that discussion thread, I'd have no idea they were 10 years old.
So I can see an argument for removing it, and I can also see an argument for not removing it. Just curious as to what the prevailing wisdom is here.
Edited by MacronNotesopen Old Commercial
There was this commercial where this clerk is pulling the lever on a (slurpee?) or drink machine and then goes into a daydream where the lever is the joystick on a fighter jet and he is imagining himself flying a jet while he is really pouring a drink. His boss notices that the drink is overflowing and says, "Rodneeey!!" and he wakes up from his daydream and goes "Whoah..." Its pretty funny but I can't remember if it was a Michigan Lottery commercial or a 7-11 sweepstakes. The idea was that if you won (whatever it was), you could buy a fighter jet, lol.
Edited by MacronNotesopenTroper adding their own fanon to a work page Literature
Ian78668
is very much into the Alternate History story Player Two Start, having most of their edit history devoted to its work page. However, they seem to be adding their own concepts and ideas (usually about Don Bluth or Pokémon in some form) into the work page that aren't in the text itself. Even the author had to step in and take some of this out
, only for them to add yet more of their own fanon. I sent them a few notifiers a while ago, and they seemed to comply at first... but just recently came back again and added yet more of their own fanon into it. Since I didn't want it to be an edit war, I sent them another notifier and bringing up the problem here.
open AdmiralDT8 vandalising a page. Literature
A user going by the name AdmiralDT8 has vandalised Loyalty Among Worlds and deleted the YMMV and the Trivia articles for that fanfiction. It is unknown if this is really AdmiralDT8 himself doing this or the work of a troll. If it turns out to be the former, then this is a funny case of Dear Negative Reader
Profile here:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Tropers/AdmiralDT8
openPage full of improper image formatting
Pokemon Mystery Tourney is filled with hotlinked images, which don't show up properly if they're not put into the image uploader first. What do I do with them? Do I replace them all with proper images myself or do I have to start an Image Pickin thread first?
open Etiquette on deleting contentious/false moments examples Web Original
Got something that has been bothering me for a few weeks and rather than go the edit route I thought I would get a proper consensus first before taking any action.
Over on the H.Bomberguy heartwarming page there is an example for his RWBY criticism video with two subpoints and one third point. Most of the second and the third dot points are potshots at the show or it's company disguised as compliments to HB and could easily be cut out without much controversy. It's the main entry that I have an issue with.
To summarize, in his video on RWBY HB portrays himself as having been a life-long fan of Monty Oum (RWBY's creator who was long deceased at the time of the video), and the heartwarming entry on his page is talking about how much respect HB has for Monty as a creator and a person. The problem is that this is a lie; whilst Monty was alive HB made a lot of outright venomous statements on Monty and his skills that contradict his claims about how he was always in awe of Monty's work and considered him a personal hero. This makes HB contentious in the RWBY fandom since a lot of people see him as pretending to respect Monty (or at the most generous obscure his previous hatedom which he's since backed down on) to make his criticism seem unbiased rather than someone who went into the show as someone who thought its creator lacked talent and thought it looked average at best. It touches on a sore spot in that community of haters of the show using Monty's name as a way to bash the show/it's remaining creators.
So to circle back to the entry, it's repeating the claim that HB respected Monty and his work. That is a lie as HB's own forum comments can attest to. Would that be enough to get the entry taken down, or does this still fall under a subjective opinion and so the entry stays? If so, would deleting the sub-entries which lean towards taking potshots at the show and it's fans be acceptable?
resolved RPGs Equal Combat
EDIT never mind, self-solved. I've made a typo in one of the entries, then copied it over to the other, while fixing the original typo. Case closed
Am I missing something, or the link to the trope is busted? I've put it into Oko Yrrhedesa, and both instances are flagged in red. Yet when I compared with other pages using this trope, they display as they should, in blue, using the exact same formatting as I did. Any solutions?
Edited by TropiarzopenGirlfriends/Girl Friends
Howdy. New here, still learning my way around the site, apologies if this is the wrong place to post this, feel free to let me know if there's a better place for this kind of thing.
If you visit:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Manga/GirlFriends
you will learn about a yuri manga from Morinaga Milk.
If you click on the "Characters" tab, you will learn about the characters of a completely unrelated live-action TV show named "Girlfriends". The "Series" tab is also about this same TV show.
If you click on the "Film" tab, you will learn about an independent film completely unrelated to either the manga or the TV show.
Is this working as intended? Or is it something that can/should be fixed?
If it's something that can/should be fixed, is it a fix which readers like myself can fix? Or is intervention from a Higher Power required?

On Jun 7th, 2020
, Tropers/Ferot_Dreadnaught cut the following entry from Transformers: The Last Knight due to Crazy Awesome no longer being considered a trope but instead a disambiguation page.
- Crazy Awesome: People have liked Cogman for how manic and impulsive he can be. For example, his reaction to Cade and Viviane being flirtatious is to set up a dinner date. But since there's no supplies on-hand for food or to cook it, his reaction is to fire himself out of the torpedo chamber, catch two tuna by the tails and drag them flopping and thrashing back to make sushi.
However, the trope Crazy Is Cool does exist, and perfectly fits for the entry, which is still accurate as many youtube compilations and online discussions regarding Cogman can attest, and, provided a little bit of a rewrite is given to add further context, could easily be restored.As such, I request permission to restore the entry but under the Crazy Is Cool trope.
- Crazy Is Cool: Cogman became an Ensemble Dark Horse for viewers due to how manic and impulsive he can be, making him an entertaining little psycho that many viewers wished they could see more of. Standout examples being his partaking in a high-speed car chase where he lets road rage overtake him, or firing himself out a torpedo chamber just to get fish to make sushi with for Cade and Viviane's dinner date, even proceeding to beat the fish to death when he comes back with two live ones.
Edited by RebelFalcon