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Ask the Tropers:
openTroper removing page images without discussion
I notice the image for Self-Demonstrating Article to be missing, but there's no Image Pickin thread in the history, just Michael 108 tweaking the caption several times before deleting it and the image outright.
From the troper's edit history, they've done the same to Fourth Wall Greeting. Michael 108 has no forum history so I assume these were changed without discussion.
There appears to be a pattern of tweaking captions note (and laconics, but they don't seem as severe), which aren't all bad, but a few stick out over the others. Examples:
- Adding and deleting a caption for Advertising.The Simpsons
- Adding a ":p" to NightmareFuel.The Simpsons (which another deleted)
- WesternAnimation.Animaniacs no longer has its theme lyrics(?) in the caption, what replaces it now isn't even formatted properly.
- Replacing Creator.Tress Mac Neille's caption to one (arguably) more Fan Myopic compared to its initial "The woman of a thousand voices."
Which notifiers would be suitable, if Michael 108 hasn't received any already?
resolved Suì-Fēng or Soi Fon? Anime
The Bleach series is no stranger to the official localization changing over time, such as the Soul Reapers' swords variously being called "Soul Cutters", "Zanpak-to", and "Zanpakutou" over the years; or Ichigo's Getsuga Tenshō being variously spelled with or without a space.
According to the official Masked and UnMasked artbooks, written by Tite Kubo himself, the Captain of Squad 2's name is supposed to be the Chinese "Suì-Fēng", which is pronounced "Soifon" in Japanese. However, VIZ Media's English localization has phonetically transcribed her name as "Soi Fon" and continues to do so even in media released after the artbooks came out — such as Bleach: Brave Souls and the Bleach: The Thousand Year Blood War Arc. However, the TV Tropes pages all refer to her as Suì-Fēng.
What seems to be the case is that the Bleach wiki has prioritized Kubo's spellings (or ones that make sense in the language the different groups use) above VIZ's official English localizations — hence them using diacritics, and spelling "Visored" instead of "Vizard" and "Vollständig" instead of "Vollsterndich" or "Voll Stern Dich"; and the Bleach TV Tropes pages seem to — intentionally or not — have followed suit. But IIRC TV Tropes' policy is to prioritize the official English localization above all others, even if it turns out that localization is incorrect — as in the case of Berserk's Band of the Hawk being properly named "Band of the Falcon" but the English localization continuing to use the incorrect translation, with TV Tropes following suit.
What should be done in this case?
resolved Is "needlessly vindicitive" a proper edit reason for removal? Videogame
Black Yakuzu 94 removed several entries from the one of the recap pages
for Fate/Grand Order, claiming to be "removing needlessly vindicitive comments". Their removal of certain tropes from the YMMV page for that recap page but without an edit reason prompts to ask if that is a legitimate reasoning, if the entries were actually that, or if this was a case of agenda based editing.
Removals from the main page:
- Asshole Victim: Even before Morgan's backstory was revealed, the majority of Faeries that the protagonist encounters outside their closest allies are jerks, backstabbers, manipulators, pretenders, violent murderers and worse. And then there's Morgan's backstory which is just an endless cycle of her being betrayed by the very Faeries she's trying to save. It makes her harsh oppression of them as the Queen almost justifiable.
- Kick The Son Of A Bitch: Oberon Vortigern is the final boss and the eventual Arc Villain, and he intends to destroy all of Proper Human History after escaping the Lostbelt alongside killing off Chaldea to keep them from stopping him. Definitely not a good guy in the slightest. But... when he actually accelerated the destruction of the ungrateful Faerie races? And that he boasts that at least he succeeded in destroying Fairy Britain? Well, seeing just how horrific they are, it can be tempting to pat Oberon Vortigern's shoulders and tell him 'job well done'. Same with Cernunnos' reawakening and then giving Oberon Vortigern what he needed to start his plan.
- World of Jerkass: While other Lostbelts are very much definition of Crapsack World, they were inhabited with complicated beings who are capable of both good and bad. This Lostbelt is notorious for having a majority of its inhabitants being selfish, backstabbing, greedy, lazy, ungrateful, manipulative assholes, while decent faeries can be counted with two hands at most and those tend to be met with horrific ends at the hands of the asshole ones. It was these inherent self-destructive tendencies 'in the name of fun' that led the world to ruin (with Morgan adopting tyranny to put up any semblance of order, and even that was only temporary until she was ousted and betrayed). The EX Difference Depth classification of the Lostbelt isn't just for show.
Altered on the main page (Bold portion was removed)
- Downer Ending: While previous Lostbelts all end in a bittersweet note, this one's ending is really bleak. The entirety of the Faerie British Isle is torn to pieces by the Calamities, with the only three characters surviving it until the world's end being Melusine Albion, who is just barely holding herself together, Oberon Vortigern, who is stuck inside the Insect of the Abyss so that it can't escape outside, and Aurora, who is slowly dying anyway. Furthermore, Chaldea's secondary mission to retrieve Rhongomyniad ends up failing as the lances were all used to try to kill Cernunnos and they were unable to save anyone from the Lostworld. Sion also hints in the ending that Chaldea's good luck streak of conquering Lostbelts without casualties is about to end. The only good that came out of it is stopping the world from being destroyed and they were able to get an alternate tool, a physical version of Excalibur, to defeat the Foreign God. There’s also the silver lining that all the malignant Faeries deserved what they got for being such assholes of the highest order and put everyone, including the world itself, through hell for their selfishness and fickle nature.
- Mercy Kill: What the heroes have to end up doing to the few good fairies who really didn't deserve to die
Removed from the YMMV page
- Catharsis Factor: Unlike the first five Lostbelts, the players will probably be very happy to see Cosmos Denial after completing the chapter considering how awful the fae are.
resolved What do we do about this?
But We Used a Condom! uses the words "people with uteruses" to refer to women. Presumably, whoever wrote this was trying to avoid causing offence by excluding "people with uteruses" who don't identify as female, but there are those who think this kind of language is in itself offensive. They feel describing people solely in terms of what reproductive organs they have is dehumanising and smacks of Political Over Correctness.
Don't get me wrong. I'm aware that some people don't identify as whichever gender they were assigned at birth and I've nothing against such people. But words like "men" and "women" are used elsewhere on the wiki, so I was wondering what should be done in the case of this particular article and any other articles where such "inclusionary language" has been used. Specifically, is it OK to change "people with uteruses" to "women" or at least "people assigned female at birth"? Or should the sentence where "people with uteruses" appears be rewritten from scratch?
openI Knew It! back and forth/meta and YMMV move?
- I Knew It!: Fans are completely happy that Hasbro confirmed that Bumblebee is a complete reboot to the film franchise after 2 months of debate, given the reshoots/rewrites. Fans began to theorize this was the case pretty much as soon as Blitzwing, at the time believed to be Starscream, showed up in trailers sporting the look of a classic Seeker, and the theories got more intense as more information came out. When the movie itself was released, most of the audience either accepted it was a reboot or strongly believed it should be. Fortunately, that turned out to be the case Hasbro went with.
This was commended out as Flip-Flop of God has gone back to mixed messages on if it's a Soft Reboot as opposed to Alternate Continuity. So should it be removed, kept as it was once an example, or does this mean it should be limited to confirmed in-work as opposed to Word of God or production?
And as I Knew It! is now YMMV, is there a reason there hasn't seemed to be much moves/cleanup on that? Answering the former question would help with the move.
Also, Characters.Bumblebee was split from the films because it was initially confirmed as alternate continuity. I assume we want to keep them separate given it's effectively its own thing and the aforementioned inconsistency on its official status.
openSandboxes and variant namespaces
Just to check I'm not missing something here...
All sandboxes should be Sandbox/NameOfSandbox, shouldn't they?
And if a troper has several for personal use, options like Sandbox/NameOfSandbox2 can be used.
...but the moment someone modifies the namespace itself to Sandbox2/NameOfSandbox, that's an issue, isn't it?
Looking at Sandbox2.Audio Speaks 2 and a couple of other examples (including some Sandbox3 ones) - I cutlisted two of them for long-dormant tropers, then started doubting myself, as Administrivia says very little about sandbox rules.
Thanks!
Edited by Mrph1openFatal Fury City of the Wolves: Roster?
Hello. I'd like to ask about this case in Fatal Fury: City of the Wolves
According to edits by IkeaHan
, the only presence of voice clips means that we shouldn't just confirm the characters yet. However, as someone who has played the series overall, I have known the series enough to know that certain voice clips accurately belong to only a certain character so it's close enough to be confirm. I would like to re-add them, but afraid that it'll trigger a Flame War. I've talked to IkeaHan himself and he said I should bring it here in ATT.
What do you guys think? Should the voice clips be used as a confirmation of the character being in the roster as long as one can identify to whom they belong to in 100% capacity?
Thanks!
openFake Memories? Won't Work or Handwave?
My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic S3 E13 "Magical Mystery Cure"
- Fake Memories: The destiny switch results in the ponies with switched destinies getting false memories to go with them that dissuade them from questioning why they are so bad at their 'destiny'. The problem is they didn't receive the skills to go along with the memories. Exactly how extensive their memory alterations were is not explored.
This seem explicitly contradicted by the episode as when Spike asks about using the memory spell to restore them Twilight states "It's not their memories, Spike. It's their true selves that have been altered!"
So due Fake Memories not apply if so directly contradicted? Still apply if it doesn't explain how this is different/more extensive than memory alteration? Or is Ambiguous Situation more fitting as it doesn't clearly explain how this worked?
And would Twilight's statement be Simple Solution Won't Work (an intended as legitimate explanation why not) or Hand Wave (a flimsy explanation self-aware about such), or is it/can it be both? I assume the former because it lack the attempt to deflect/dodge the issue.
open Is this a valid example of UU?
LL Smooth J added this to Manga-Waido.
Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Leo
I discussed with a friend on Discord and he thinks that Leo's actions are the result of his abusive family and he didn't have his grandparents to rely on.
So what to do with this example?
Edited by mickey96openA continuation from the SMG4 query
So to continue from this
query, and particularly this
point and help point out where things went wrong:
- March 19th, 2022
: Euan 2000 edits the list, adding the "SMG4 Cosmology Saga" as its own, unwicked bullet and placing Genesis and Revelations underneath it as second-level bullets.
- March 11th, 2023
: Dragon Ball changes the list to also place the YouTube arc underneath the "Cosmology Saga" bullet.
- March 12th, 2023
: Soufriere reverts the above edit, making YouTube a single-level bullet again. Their edit reason:
- March 16th, 2023
: Dragon Ball changes the YouTube arc back to a sub-level bullet. (I believe this in of itself is an edit war, though it's not especially relevant to what's been happening more recently and the troper has already been suspended for another issue.)
- March 30th, 2023
: troperaiser once again gives the YouTube arc its own bullet, separate from the "Cosmology Saga." (They also change the wording of the latter to omit "SMG4.")
- June 15th, 2023
: Random User 21360 makes all four pre-Genesis arcs (including YouTube) into sub-bullets under "Cosmology Lore." Their edit reason:
- For context, Glitch Productions makes the series, and the Lawsuit arc comes after Revelations.
- June 23rd, 2023
: troperaiser reverts the above edit, making the first four arcs single-bullet again.
- June 24th, 2023
: Random User 21360 reverts the above edit, once again making the first four arcs sub-bullets under "Cosmology Saga." (This is where they start edit warring.) Their edit reason, with slight formatting corrections:
- June 27th, 2023
: Broson Roder 232 reverts the last edit again (putting the first four arcs on their own bullets).
- July 17th, 2023
: troperaiser adds small headers to the list of arcs: "Cosmology Lore" (containing the first six arcs, up through Revelations) and "Post-Cosmology Lore" (containing the Lawsuit arc, the seventh and currently last one). This is in addition to the "Cosmology Saga" bullet point.
- July 18th, 2023
: Random User 21360 gives the Genesis and Revelations arcs their own bullet points and removes the "Cosmology Saga" one. In other words, every arc has a single-level bullet like a normal list.
- July 26th, 2023
: Broson Roder 232 changes the "X Lore" headers, splitting off the first three arcs to a new "Pre-Cosmology Lore" section. Their edit reason, with slight formatting corrections:
- July 27th, 2023
: Random User 21360 reverts the above edit, essentially lumping the first six arcs under the "Cosmology Lore" header again. Their edit reason:
- July 28th, 2023
: Wingnut re-adds the "Cosmology Saga" bullet point, once again placing Genesis and Revelations as sub-level bullets underneath it. Their edit reason:
- August 2nd, 2023
: In what is currently the latest revision of the page, Random User 21360 moves the YouTube arc to a sub-bullet under the "Cosmology Saga" bullet point. Their edit reason, with minor formatting corrections:
So there are three tropers guilty of edit warring: troperaiser, Random User 21360, and the aforementioned still-suspended Dragon Ball.
I also put this in a separate query to help the mods and other tropers determine what to do, who's in the wrong, and which entry goes where.
Edited by skan123openOppenheimer's YMMV page, "Barbenheimer", and Japanese response
Oppenheimer's YMMV page is getting coverage of certain issues regarding the whole "Barbenheimer" fandom crossover with the Barbie film, specifically how Japanese audiences don't think it's as funny considering their Nuclear Weapons Taboo. The Mis-blamed entries I think should be cut because not only am I not sure who is supposed to be "in the wrong", I don't think it's particularly relevant to the actual movie (it's a meme that only barely touches the actual Oppenheimer film itself), but the Americans Hate Tingle entry is more vague... I don't think the Barbenheimer meme is really relevant, but the movie does touch on understandably touchy topics; is there any particular hangups Japanese audiences have with the movie on its own terms beyond its overall subject matter?
openWeird reorganization on What an Idiot!.Saw Film
Recently, Ansongc2000 has done a reorganization process for What an Idiot!.Saw that I find rather weird. To wit, not long beforehand, I had created folders for each film to concur with the first "In General" entry added to the page, especially as some of the film sections were already quite long by then. Then Ansongc walked in and added a decent bunch of new examples (while also removing or rearranging a few existing ones without much explanation other than them being "bad") for the first seven films, while also grouping them in a single folder and leaving Jigsaw and Spiral with their respective folders; they also removed the "Series-wide" and "By movie" headers I added to split the "In General" folder and the movie-specific ones in their own parts. In fact, they relegated the "By movie" name to the new folder for the first seven movies, even though it doesn't make sense when put alongside the Jigsaw and Spiral folders with their respective films' titles.
Even if grouping the movies by major storyline can be reasoned because of Jigsaw and Spiral having time gaps with both the first seven consecutive films and each other, it leaves a somewhat disproportioned and confusing structure for me, especially as plenty of the first seven movies' sections are now as long as the ones that used to be the longest before Ansongc's edits (not to mention to aforementioned issue with the "By movie" name). Even though I did the previous structure myself, I honestly prefer that structure for a movie series' What an Idiot! page over the page's current one.
By the way, I informed Ansongc about this query via private message.
Edited by Inky100open B99, s6 ep3. Live Action TV
In 'The Tattler' episode, we meet Mike Joseph, a musician wannabee.
(The rest is my opinion, based on body language.)
Initially, he is friendly with Jake, but when Jake shares how active & fulfilling his life is, Mike seems to become bitter because how his carrier isn't going anywhere.
He quickly shifts tones by insisting on talking about Jake's high-school experience as a rejected classmate & he somehow seems amused about the subject, at Jake's expense.
I've read the TVT page of the episode, but I don't feel like there is the trope I am looking for.
So, my question, after giving the context, is, What Is This Trope?
When someone you'd assume to be your friend, doesn't hesitate to lower your self-esteem by digging up all of your insecurities or flaws, just to feel less small about themselves?
And, even in contexts where their reputation isn't in danger, they just don't hesitate to bring into conversations what their 'friend' isn't comfortable with?
Edited by PassionFloweropen New Tropes Western Animation
Can you guys add these new Tropes that I invented?
- 1: "Unnamed Short Tempered Trope" It's Like "Hair-Trigger Temper" but downplayed and "Fiery Redhead" but for all types of characters with different types of hair colors.
- 2: "Question Not Answered" I know, Pretty cool name, It's self-explanatory and Nickelodeon is notorious for using this cliché in their sitcoms.
- 3: "Doesn't Say Sorry" It's basically when a character doesn't say sorry for their Jerkass behaviour say: "Bob scolds Alice for focusing more on school than her job after a fight Alice apologizes but Bob Doesn't apologizes for not leting her do her school duty." Double Subverted In The "We Baby Bears" Episode "Triple T Tigers" Where Near The Ending TK Apologizes for his bossy nature toward his brothers but is interrupted by the bears.
- 4: "Oblivious Twist" (You can change the name, don't worry about it.) It's basically a plot twist where... let's say "Alice is jealous of Bob doing killer skateboard tricks that he learned from a book only to do one more and the skateboard snaps in half which causes Alice to laugh in his face and revales that it was all a plan to get revenge at Bob for making lasagna instead of meatloaf with him knowing that if she eats lasagna it gives her acid reflux. Example: "ALVINNN!!! and The Chipmunks" Episode "Simon the Superb" Simon wants Alvin to give him his book but turns out the book was part of a plan to trick Alvin.
- 5: "Big "HEY!"" And "Big "DO IT!"" Come on, Why not?
- 6: And Finally "Common Sense Isn't Allowed" It's "Forgot About His Powers" But it's not power related let me put a scenario for you: "Bob and Alice can drink water safely but Bridgette (A Fire Girl) can't so Bob and Alice accuse Bridgette of being an evil creature that is poisonous to water but they forgot and Bridgette doesn't say that she can't drink water. (because of plot reasons.)
And that's all the tropes i want you to add so please mods add them thank you and ciao for now.
Edited by BlimperBraveopenBad one-off edit Live Action TV
Tropers.imajakov's first and so far only edit, from about a month ago, was to add an entry to Series.House for the nonexistent trope "Genius Level Intellect." The entry itself didn't have any grammar issues and did accurately describe the show and title character, but, well... that isn't a real trope. They also wrote it out un-wikiworded as "Genius Level intellect" (complete with capitalization error)
Edited by Dirtyblue929resolved JakeStoneArtist
(See here
for earlier query on the troper)
I didn't wanna necro that query, but today, they sent me a strongly-worded PM attacking the writers as well as self-promoting ideas they made on their deviantart account.
Edited by YuriHaru567

DavidJohnsonVG
changed all the example folders for the trope T-Word Euphemism to themed names
, so "Anime & Manga" becomes "The A and M Words", Comic Books becomes "The CB Words" and so on, which in my opinion makes the page harder to read. It also doesn't entirely work since some categories start with the same letter, so he includes a second letter which seems to go against the trope itself. Should I just revert it?
Edited by harryhenry