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Ask the Tropers:
openPossible Broken Aesop? Film
So, saw that adding a Broken Aesop to The Last Jedi's page would need to be approved first, so I figured to ask if this was acceptable (or if it was already added/removed)
One of the aesops was that your life is too important to throw away. However, it's underscored by not Holdo's Heroic Sacrifice to take out an entire fleet and Luke's sacrifice to hold off the First Order long enough for everyone to escape, but it's also underscored by the person giving the aesop in the first place, Rose, who nearly died to save Finn from having to sacrifice himself in the first place.
open ChaseScene
To those who can get a video from TMNT Mutant Mayhem, can you please get a video of where the turtles try to get away with the last piece of Superfly's plan? I’d do it myself if the scene was on You Tube, but since it isn’t…
open"Wasted" misuse added back
YMMV.Ruby Gillman Teenage Kraken
- They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot: The movie hints at the idea that the conflict between krakens and mermaids isn't all black and white and there can be good and evil members of both, with Grandmamah expressing Fantastic Racism towards mermaids, Chelsea presenting herself as a friendly mermaid and developing a genuine-seeming friendship with Ruby, and Ruby trying to find some way to end the war between mermaids and krakens. This idea completely goes out the window when Chelsea is revealed to actually be the evil Queen Nerissa, in turn affirming Grandmamah's beliefs that all krakens are good and all mermaids are evil, and derailing the debate into a fairly basic good vs. evil conflict.
I deleted this prior as TWAPGP cleanup
deemed it misuse (about plot that could have been explored so anything contradicting the intended plot is other complaints). Permission to re-remove?
And since this is an issue, how should I phrase the note saying not to add it back?
Edited by Ferot_DreadnaughtopenSelf-reporting: Any evidence of an edit war here? Videogame
I'm self-reporting about if I started an Edit War in a Goddamned Bats entry of my own in the YMMV page of Diner Dash.
Back in the middle of July, I added the entry, which read as follows:
- Similarly to the Cellphone Addicts, the Cavemen in Flo Through Time make noise that drains other customers' patience, though they're pretty quick eaters and leave in no time if attended quickly, in addition to being more patient.
Then at the end of the month, Shaker Troper 2002 corrected the entry in accordance to how the Goddamned Bats in question actually behaved (unlike what I initially thought about them).
- Similarly to the Cellphone Addicts, the Cavemen in Flo Through Time make noise that drains other customers' patience, though they're pretty quick eaters and leave in no time if attended quickly. Like cellphone addicts, their own patience also drains fast as well.
A couple months later (just now), I noticed that the entry was edited, so I decided to rearrange it a bit so it looks clean and organized, without changing any of the context addressed. It currently reads like this:
- Similarly to the Cellphone Addicts, the Cavemen in Flo Through Time have a low patience of their own and make noise that drains other customers' patience, though they're also pretty fast eaters and leave in no time if attended quickly.
I know this self-report might be quite dumb, but I did it just in case there was some issue, since I didn't intend to do anything against ShakerTroper2002 nor start an Edit War in general.
Edited by Inky100openScrappy misuse(?)
- The Scrappy: This show's incarnation of Velma is not only the most hated incarnation of the character but also one of, if not the most hated character in the Scooby Doo franchise by being a self righteous, grating, hypocritical, petty, and cruel Designated Hero with no redeeming qualities.
While the characters is widely hated by Scooby-Doo fans, I believe this is misuse as Scrappy must be hated by fans of the specific work and is about consistently hated characters not hated versions of otherwise popular ones. (Hence the Titans of Teen Titans Go! not counting despite the show getting similar backlash.)
If this Velma was hated by those who otherwise liked the show, I'd say she counts. But while I've seen implications of such, the show is such a negativity sink I can't tell for sure and am leaning to "hated by non-fans of the work" misuse.
I asked Scrappy Cleanup
but got nothing. Prior discussion on the matter was unclear given the version of characters grey area. The Scooby Doo thread
was also unsure, not saying if her haters otherwise like the show and saying this was more a definitional question than popularity one.
Thoughts on the matter? Would Overshadowed by Controversy be a better fit as it's seemingly impossible to talk about anything other than the character as opposed to the shows other merits/flaws? Can anyone confirm or deny if she's hated by those who otherwise like the show?
Edited by Ferot_DreadnaughtopenTroping works made by family members
I know that Auto-Erotic Troping, troping your own works, is disliked, and YMMV for such is outright forbidden, but what about troping and adding YMMV for works made by family members? For example, making a work page for a now-discontinued webcomic my brother made. I probably can't reference anything he told me personally that he never wrote anywhere, but the comic itself should be fair game, right?
Edited by KingofNightmaresopenBorked note markup
On Fanfic.Medicated, one of the notes in the first Entertainingly Wrong bullet doesn't work, but it wasn't always this way, and it looks normal when I copy it here:
- The Plantars try to study Anne's human form to discover what species she is. They correctly deduce that she's a mammal, but most of their other conclusions are just slightly off, though still based on logical evidence. Since she's warm-blooded, they think she's native to colder climatesnote Humans live all over the planet, but thrive in temperate climate, and are native to sub-saharan Africa. Anne herself is from southern California, that she's arboreal due to her natural climbing skillsnote Humans are not arboreal, but primates usually are, so it wasn't too far off, and that she's primarily a herbivore since she prefers fruits to insects.note Humans are omnivores that can survive on any diet, fruit is simply more easily digestible than insects
open"Franchise Original Sin" or "Older Than They Think"?
I did some edits of the YMMV page of Metallica's St. Anger, and some people have been fudging around on an entry between Franchise Original Sin and Older Than They Think. The matter has to do with St. Anger's negative reputation among fans, and how the flaws of the album (namely sketchy audio mixing and James Hetfield's lyrics) were argued (particularly by Todd in the Shadows) to have been around to a less significant degree in previous Metallica albums. Timeline for context:
- Was originally coined
as Franchise Original Sin.
- I later removed it
because I argued the trope should be applied on the original work, not on the nadir.
- A different user swooped in
and reinstated it as Older Than They Think because "Indeed, not Franchise Original Sin but another trope." I mostly agreed that this was probably more correct and could be left be, though I still did a bit of tweaking on the entry
to give clearer context, be less complain-y, and remove the egregious Todd in the Shadows reference.
- Several months later, an entirely different user switches it back
to Franchise Original Sin without giving an edit reason.
I don't want to risk an edit war by switching it back after we'd already gone through this, but I just wanna make sure if it's actually correct to do so or not. There's a chance this topic might not even fit for either trope in the way they're meant to be used, but I think it's supposed to be more Older Than They Think (referring to present issues being, in fact, older than believed), not indicating that St. Anger is itself the "franchise original sin". Thoughts?
openDeadpanSnarker Indexes
Should Deadpan Snarker be a Self-Demonstrating Article? You can't tell which lines are which media categories without reading them thoroughly.
openHTAW goes where/limits and complaining
- Hard-to-Adapt Work: The Secret Invasion comic series was a large Crisis Crossover event that overhauled the post-Civil War status quo and continued to have an impact on the Marvel Universe. The concept of Skrulls posing as established characters such as Rhodey and Everett Ross for an uncertain amount of time would have repercussions that could be covered over the course of a Phase, if not a Saga in and of itself. Having such a grand event being covered in a six-episode TV series can feel underwhelming, especially with such a small cast consisting of little to no superheroes. Even The Avengers Earths Mightiest Heroes had taken several liberties when adapting the comic storyline.
The last part makes me think Hard-to-Adapt Work should only apply to the work being adapted, not the adaptation. And the many complaints I've seen about the 2023 series make me thing more of this is difficulty of fitting it in the MCU given its differences than difficulties within the source material.
Two other related questions about Hard-to-Adapt Work.
- The Lord of the Rings is listed as one even after the films proved it possible and well done. Is it due to the prior adaptations being poorly received and/or it being surprising the success of the film adaptations were.
- Undertale isn't listed despite many attributes prohibitive for non-interactive work. So does it require serious effort/discussion regarding adapting to count?
Also there's so much complaining under YMMV.Secret Invasion 2023 that it might need looking into.
resolved Troper page with heavy self-deprecation and even suicidal indentation
Smolidk's troper page is...rather worrying. It opens with "Kill me", and includes entries about the troper in question like Abusive Parents, Angst? What Angst?, Asshole Victim, an inverted case of Beautiful Sexual Assault Victim where they call themselves "absolutely hideous", and more (with one standout entry being "Death Seeker: Kill me pls").
Wasn't there a recently-passed rule that this sort of thing wasn't allowed on people's troper pages anymore because we here at TVT are not trained mental health professionals (which was also discussed here
)?
openWMG pages for creators
So WMG.Lady Gaga has two sections: one for her music videos and one seemingly about Lady Gaga herself. I just had to remove a section about Lady Gaga having an Oedipus Complex for her real life father and there's another example about Lady gaga being a Satan-worshipper, which is some Illuminati-level conspiracy theory crafting.
Now, I know the section about her videos is fine as it's making guesses about her work, but this section seems like it's violating all kinds of Real Life Troping and gossip policies.
Is this ok? Should it be removed? And while this is the only page I cam across, should WMG pages for creators that talk about the creator and not their work be blanket-banned?
resolved That One Boss natter? Videogame
I tried to bring this up in the cleanup thread
, but to no avail.
This was recently added under Sillydillo's entry in ThatOneBoss.Kirby:
- In a June 2022 interview with Nintendo Dream, Shinya Kumazaki admitted that members of the development team often raised complaints about Sillydillo's difficulty... including Kumazaki himself. You know a boss deserves to be on this list when the people who made the game wound up finding him too tough!
Seems like natter to me, but should I remove it?
openQuestion Adding Images To Trope with no pic.
So this is something that has been on my mind for some time, and I am just trying to make sure I get this right so I can understand so far. Are we allowed to post pictures in the trope page, or do we need to discuss the chosen images in the thread? I say this since it is something I wanted to know and I want to know if you have to discuss images on the no image thread. If not, then what should we do regarding the situation?
If I do confuse you I will try my best to clarify myself regarding the question.
Edited by Echidnaresolved Is there an Administrivia about "see above" and "see below"
I'm noticing quite a bit on Tv Tropes examples saying "see above" rather than explaining something for itself. Is there an Administrivia about how examples like this should be handled? Should they be edited to actually clarify rather than assume one would scroll "above" or "below"?
openToo Much on The Millennium Age of Animation? Western Animation
On the UsefulNotes.The Millennium Age Of Animation page, TimonAndPumbaa623
has been adding numerous series/movies/specials to the page's list of "Series/Films associated with this era", since 2021 and especially recently, treating it like an index of anything that's come out since the Turn of the Millennium. While the folder itself admits the list is incomplete, it's added a lot of bloat to an already long page, approaching 400,000 . And while "associated with the era" is a somewhat nebulous and subjective term, I'm questioning if such works as CJ the DJ or Little Angels: The Brightest Christmas are notable enough for such a list if it intends to inform people.
All that said, I'm not comfortable with just making a unilateral page change all by myself, so are there any further opinions on this?
open What trope does this fit ? Film
So I recently learned that the actor dog that played John Wick's dog Daisy, then named Andy, is now called Wick after the man himself. So now I'm left wondering if there's any Trivia or Main trope this example belongs to ? Can you guys help me out ?

Well, what's the exact trope for when a good characters is turned evil by force. Like, he is spelled, or brainwashed, or some sort of mind control, well, all this way?
Another question that is also related to the previous one:
Well, the "hero" becomes a "villain", the other heroes face him, manage to solve it and help him return to the light side, and... different from what they thought... The hero, who until recently was a psychopathic villain who did evil because he was corrupted by the power of darkness, returned to his original state of goodness, or in this specific case, is no longer the great evil threat but retains some trace of darkness. Some of which I would like to mention:
- The character returns to being a hero in character and personality, but still has some of his dark power and could use it as his normal self; - The character returns to being a hero again in personality and character, but maintains a darker tone; - The character returns to being a hero, or at least in this case, tries to be one, as he still maintains his evil personality, being more daring and debauched than his original self; - Regarding this last example, in addition to personality, he can also retain the dark power together. In this case, the character is no longer a threat or danger, just a "mean" version of his other self;
All of these categories above that I mentioned have a temporary effect on the character. In other words, at one time or another (better said, one episode or another), the character will return to who he always was before his "evilization".