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Ask the Tropers:
open New NRLEP Crowner!
Up for NRLEP we have:
- Agonizing Stomach Wound (too common, related to other NRLEP Anatomy Agony tropes)
- As You Know (a narrative trope since it's about explaining things for an audience's benefit, a stock phrase)
- Confirmed Bachelor (narrative, too common, gossip since it's often a euphemism for a closeted gay person)
- Fake Ultimate Hero (too controversial, being used to complain about celebrities, attracting subjective examples)
- Frivolous Lawsuit (attracting complaining, too common, attracting poor examples)
- Hollywood Hacking (being suggested to be un-NRLEP'd, is not impossible)
- Hope Crusher (too controversial, a narrative trope)
- I Have Boobs, You Must Obey! (sexuality trope, attracting sexy weblinks, attracting a list of stupid t-shirts)
- I Have No Son! (too controversial, a stock phrase, gossip about people's family dramas)
- Implausible Deniability (attracting ROCEJ violations like this
, related to the NRLEP Blatant Lies)
- Look Ma, No Plane! (brought up a while ago
as being a potential un-NRLEP-ing candidate, since it is not actually impossible)
- Plucky Girl (a stock character, too common)
- Self-Fulfilling Prophecy (a narrative trope, attracting anecdotes and ROCEJ violating examples)
- "Well Done, Son" Guy (too controversial, gossip about people's family dramas)
openHow to deal with a character whose innocence is unclear
In the FNAF Security Breach page YMMV page.
- Montgomery Gator is implied to have murdered Glamrock Bonnie to take his place in the band before being rendered Brainwashed and Crazy like the other antagonistic animatronics and has the most thuggish and aggressive personality of the bunch. Despite this, fan portrayals often downplay Monty's anger issues, portray him as a Jerk with a Heart of Gold, and depict his decommissioning of Glamrock Bonnie as either an accident that he feels guilty about or something Vanny brainwashed him into doing, if he's even shown to be responsible for the incident at all. It's also implied that Monty is plotting to kill Glamrock Freddy in order to become the face of the Pizzaplex, and yet there are fans who ship them together. That's not even getting into all the fans who feel sorry for Monty, wanted him to get a happy ending, and like the idea of him as an ally.
OK, for the people who aren't familiar with FNAF: This isn't nearly so cut and dry as the entry makes it out to be. It is an Ambiguous Situation. On one hand Bonnie was last seen heading towards Monty's residence, but nothing from Monty himself hints he is particularly ambitious or hungry for fame and attention. In game Monty is hinted to be The Aloner who often misses out on main shows in favor of being by himself, and it's explicitly laid out that he did not possess the murder weapon (special, very sharp claw-upgrades) for Bonnie at the time Bonnie died. The idea that he's planning to kill Freddy comes from a scene in a Game Within A Game which is strongly implied to have been hacked by the main antagonist anyway (most if not all such games are), not being an easter egg but explicitly an actual level, making it less likely to be a look in Monty's mind. The fan base is pretty much split down the middle about whether or not he did it. While Monty is a (Brainwashed and Crazy) antagonist and he certainly has flaws, this particular thing is unclear. Also we don't know when Monty and the others become Brainwashed and Crazy, he COULD have easily been in such a state when Bonnie died. So yes, people do feel sorry for Monty, especially since there really is a case to be made for his innocence regarding Bonnie. I have no doubt Monty gets genuine DILP in some form as all FNAF antagonists do, but there is a case to make for Monty being innocent and many people (myself included) do. But since I am trying my best to be fair and impartial and I don't want to start an edit war, I need some advice on how to handle this. Should I move this text to Broken Base and modify it?
Edited by CatcherInTheWryopenDub-Induced Plot Hole misuse (not Plot Holes)?
- Naturally, this is the case when My Little Pony: Equestria Girls received a Japanese dub that was released on Netflix. Japanese viewers may be confused as to where Twilight suddenly got wings from, and why she suddenly has a crown and is a princess. Of course, since Season 3 of Friendship Is Magic had yet to air in Japan, which explains everything, this left a major plot hole in Equestria Girls' Japanese Dub. It got worse when Rainbow Rocks and Friendship Games were quickly and subsequently released in the region. Rainbow Rocks features Twilight's new castle, and Friendship Games has a scene in its Stinger mentioning Twilight's time-travelling adventures. Naturally, since Seasons 3 and beyond have yet to come to Japan, this turned a mere plot hole into a plot canyon for Japanese viewers. Needless to say, many Japanese fans are not happy that the Equestria Girls films have been dubbed before the rest of Friendship Is Magic and have even boycotted this move by watching Japanese fansubbed versions of the original show in English online instead. This hasn't deterred anything it seems, as Legend of Everfree and the Magical Movie Night special were still released in Japan. Speaking of the latter, it features Starlight Glimmer, effectively making it her debut to Japanese audiences (and not her villainous self in "The Cutie Map"), thus expanding the plot holes even wider. Not sure if plot hole as it's effectively Out of Order (if/when the dub catches up) and/or offscreen developments. Only the first might be a plot hole as it's the only one critical to the logic of the story, the others are just nods. Dub Adaptation Explanation Extrication might be better.
- BIONICLE film examples: Swedish and Hungarian dubs of The Legend Reborn misinterpret the Great Beings as "Giant Beings", giving the impression that the huge robot assembled at the end of the movie is such a giant. The word "Great" is merely a fancy title, the Great Beings are no giants, they'd be about the same size as most of the main characters and the robot is one of their many creations, not an actual Great Being. Dub error, but not plot hole as it does not effect/break the internal logic behind this work. But one of the redirects is Errors Through Localization so does/can DIPH also cover non-plot holes?
openRegarding Omega Supreme on the ''Transformers'' Character page.
On this page, the folder for Omega Supreme is mostly written using Omega's speech patterns, as though he is describing himself. Should these entries as they're written now be offloaded to a Self-Demonstrating Page, or should they just be rewritten to match the wiki's standards? I'm inclined towards the latter, as there doesn't seem to be enough content to warrant a unique page for the character, but I wanted to check.
Edited by Notsofriendlyresolved Fic author wants page deleted
The contents of Fanfic.Stormy Bubbles got replaced with the fic's author stating she wants the page deleted since the fic has been deleted.
I know this is a violation of The Fic May Be Yours, but the Trope Page Is Ours but how do I go about this myself?
openContinued Sinkhole issues.
Quotes.Villainous Breakdown Film Live Action
I previously removed the Punctuated! For! Emphasis! link as a Chained Sinkhole, but it was added back. Permission to re-remove?
Also, despite prior cleanups agreeing to add commented out notes to top of Villainous Breakdown quotes pages not to add sinkholes, they're still a magnet for and regularly attracting such. So is they're anything more that can be done?
openPotential popcorning creator pages
Today, I stumbled upon Gerry Tesch and Marina Terkulova. These are the parents of Gloria Tesch, who is the author the terrible vanity-published Maradonia Saga. All three creator pages were made by Pony Boy and lack tropes or sections listing what they've worked on. Gloria is fine as a creator page as long as someone makes a section listing her works, but I'm not so convinced for her parents.
My problem is twofold. For one, in addition to the pages being very barebones and self-isolated, I don't know if they need creator pages. Gerry at least directed Maradonia and the Shadow Empire, which is also a terrible vanity project as you might imagine, and it non-specifically says he worked on German writing, so maybe there's something there. Marina absolutely does not need a creator page though, since the only thing she's done is make the illustrations for her daughter's books. For two, they just seem to exist to document controversies surrounding these infamous books. They're written neutrally, but there's this sort of undercurrent around these pages existing at all.
Can I cutlist those two pages, or is there enough to salvage something?
Edited by MurlocAggroBopen How broad is I Let You Win?
I recently had a read through it as I was making a TLP draft, wanting to mae sure it is distinct. Based on the description and Playing with page, it tells me that it is about characters who orchestrate someone's win (as in it was planned) and that fact becomes known after. However, I found a pothole to here from Sore Loser's Adventure Time example, where Finn genuinely wants to win but sabotages himself to make Jake happy, and the latter never finds out. So does I Let You Win cover this scope, or is this a case of misuse?
Edited by Eggy0openWhat is a Ghost Wick ?
Self-explanatory, I saw several a lot of these on Cut List. What is that, and how can I find them ?
openDeleting references to cut work
Several weeks ago, Elmo 3000 deleted all examples and quotes linking to WebVideo.Mau Ler because "Red link". I'm aware the work page itself was cut because it was deemed non-tropeworthy, but I'm not sure if there's a policy for or against purging all references to such works wholesale.
(I admit to doing this myself for one fanfic cut by P5, but on lewdness grounds which don't apply here.)
openJust how much information should be mentioned in a character's description? Videogame
Felt like I have to ask this question hoping for those who are way more familiar with how this wiki works to give their thoughts as well. Wall of text warning though, as this does not involve only one video game. But a TL;DR is that some Gacha Games on this wiki have long character descriptions because they're also including gameplay information and other fluff, while there's a debate on whether one game should copy another similar game's way of handling descriptions. Who knows if the descriptions run the risk of going into Walkthrough Mode? Just how much "fluff" can really be added there?
For those who are not familiar with the above two games, the older and longer way of writing descriptions can still be seen on Characters.Genshin Impact Fischl, divided into paragraphs or parts:
- First, a short paragraph describing who they are, usually just in a concise manner, but longer ones talk about their lore.
- Second, a general paragraph describing their "core" gameplay mechanics; what their general gameplay is, what their skill does, what their Limit Break does.
- Third, another gameplay-related paragraph talking about their "character progression systems", like how their skills or Limit Break are improved through in-game means. There are also bits of fluff added in this part.
- Fourth, one sentence stating where the character can be obtained, as the game is a Gacha Game.
Note that the character descriptions for Star Rail used to have simple descriptions, yet there are tropers who massively expanded them to focus on their gameplay. The discussion on the descriptions started a month ago
... Several tropers (including myself) have already weighed in our thoughts on why trimming was necessary, though the discussion was mostly between tropers zero5889 and Ner0014re N, with the latter being the one who mostly did the trimming after getting plenty of responses from those who agree.
Personally, I agreed trimming specifically the "fluff" part of the third paragraph
, stating fluff doesn't really make sense depending on the character... as if other tropers were trying to link gameplay upgrades/passives and lore when they can be misinterpreted in another way, or are not exactly Gameplay and Story Integration at all. Welt's old character description in Characters.Honkai Star Rail Astral Express used to have such kind of fluff that don't really make sense if you're into the lore of the character.
The newer and shorter way of writing descriptions can now be seen on Characters.Honkai Star Rail Astral Express. Generally, there's no longer a paragraph talking about "character progression systems".
For what it's worth though, games like Arknights and Honkai Impact 3rd were written with concise/very simple character descriptions for years now (and tropers who are/were very active on maintaining them kept it that way), and yet troper zero5889 insisted that Honkai Impact 3rd needs some structuring on character pages, and suggested
that "detailed descriptions" for gachas like Arknights are long overdue.
But should it be the case? Are detailed character descriptions for Gacha Games really necessary?
If it would seem like troper zero5889 is planning to restructure character pages or rewrite descriptions on Gacha Games, they did confirm
they are going to give the character pages of Honkai Impact 3rd a look in the future. zero5889 also went to the Arknights forum
to suggest a rearranging of Arknights character pages to group them by "subclass" instead of general class, but several tropers objected and say it would just be overcomplicating things.
Recently on the Discussion tab
for Star Rail, there's another troper who disagreed on the trimming effort of some ability descriptions in Star Rail (particularly the removal of the "character progression systems" paragraph), like a week or so after the actual trimming edits were being done... suggesting the character descriptions of Genshin and Star Rail should still have a similar way of writing.
The trimming effort went through because many tropers agreed with it (like a majority vote, or so), but there are still those few who disagree (likely unware that a month-long discussion already happened).
Edited by DanteVinresolved What's the line between Bad Boss and Mean Boss? Web Original
In response to a previous query
, I recently moved all the examples of Bad Boss on Not Always Working's page to Mean Boss due to trope misuse. Now I'm considering moving the Mean Boss examples to a new page, but I'm wondering now if some of the Mean Boss examples counted as Bad Boss examples after all.
For instance (text copied from the article itself),
- This boss
expects a worker to clean up an active biohazard without any sort of protective gear, because calling the city about it would cost too much, yet loaning the worker equipment they're not trained in, or letting them buy the equipment themselves, would be illegal. The worker quits on the spot.
- This boss
tries to send an employee out for carts in the middle of a severe thunderstorm, and then screams at and fires them when they (rightfully) object. Luckily, Laser-Guided Karma kicks in right away when her boss finds this out, and, thanks to an extensive history of screaming in front of customers, she is immediately fired the next day for intentionally putting the employee's life in danger, and later gets thrown behind bars for assaulting her ex-husband over a lost custody battle.
- The bar owner in this story
refuses to reschedule a mandatory meeting (which turns out to be just an hour of patting herself on the back for the bar's performance during a busy period, ignoring the staff's efforts) despite a two-foot blizzard being forecast, and threatens to fire anyone who doesn't attend. Despite their obvious reservations, the poster manages to get in just one minute late... and gets a write-up for it. The poster quits on the spot. Those who failed to attend — most of the staff — are indeed fired, but promptly sue for wrongful termination and win; it also comes up that the staff weren't paid for attending the meeting. The Department of Labor gets involved, and not only is the bar forced to close, but the owner ends up having to sell her home and many of her possessions to cover legal fees, damages, and back pay. At the end, the poster notes that none of this would have happened if she had just taken their advice in the first place and rescheduled.
- The grocery store manager in this story
won't allow the poster, a lot attendant, to come in for a drink of water, despite being in the middle of a July heatwave in Florida. After four hours of this, a passing gentleman convinces him to go inside, offering to speak to the manager in person and even buy some water. The manager immediately spots the poster and fires him. However, said gentleman, who turns out to be the regional director, steps in, angrily berates the manager for her reckless endangerment of an employee and gives her a fourteen-day suspension — which soon escalates to her dismissal, as it turns out that she has been forcing underage employees to work longer than labor laws allow and denying them mandatory breaks.
- This supervisor
refuses to let the OP, whose Psycho Ex-Boyfriend is always waiting for her by the door at closing time, leave through an alternate exit, laughing in her face when she has had enough and threatens to quit. She does (sending her resignation to the "big boss" who completely understands), and even goes through the unemployment process... but the supervisor refuses to accept this and treats it as her going AWOL, finally calling her up and threatening to fire her if she doesn't show up for work, and ignoring her protests that she doesn't work there any more; the poster finally agrees to come in just to shut her up (but doesn't do so, obviously). After her number gets blocked, the supervisor starts sending employees to the OP's house to demand that she come in to work, though all they do is "chill" at her house (and get paid for doing so). The poster eventually moves (and the ex is dealt with legally).
The impression I get from Bad Boss in my last query was that BadBosses are willing to kill or let serious harm befall their underlings. Would you guys say these examples count?
Edited by DancouMaryuuresolved WyDuUDuWatUDu = Shaggadelllicc?
I've noticed that Wy Du U Du Wat U Du (who began editing in 2023
) has edited pages on quite a few of the same works that Shaggadelllicc (who was suspended in 2022
) has. Though, admittedly, that isn't enough by itself, the fact that the former troper re-added a Status Quo Is God example about Lisa being a brainy outcast again (albeit rewritten, though still having the same message) that the latter first added on this page
(and it had been cut for shoehorned complaining) is quite suspicious.
resolved Should a stub work page merge with subpages?
Continue from older query
, I think the topic worth its own query.
A week passed and the troper doesn't appeal, so it isn't like they'll get to fix it in timely manner. But what should we deal with the article? The article itself is stub, but it would has enough trope if we combine it with subpages. That being said, I've absolutely 0% interest in this work and feel fixing it is pointless (not counting clean up edit, only one troper contributed to it).
So should we just send the article and its subpage to cut list, or moving some passable content from the subpages to the work page and delete the subpages? Again, the latter sounds like the correct action, yet it leeks of being Polish the Turd.
Edited by KuruniopenThe alphabetisation of the tv series’ main page.
Hello, everyone. I happen to find this main page called Outland, a Australian tv show I’ve discovered not too long ago (also not to be confused with this page and this page, that both works share the same title). While it doesn’t seem important but the alphabets listed under the "Following examples include" from the tv show look rather messy, or perhaps there is no issue with it?
I thought it would be alright worth mentioning this seemingly obscure tv show known as the Outland, released in 2012. I definitely can fix the alphabetical order by myself somehow without a doubt (after all, I honestly did do some edits through this page before). So first long story short, is it okay to simply ignore it or proceed fixing the alphabetisations freely (though it might probably take me some time to finish however)?
openPinocchiogoria Page Videogame
So, I was working on the Pinocchiogoria page and for some reason, the index located down in the bottom of the page lists the Pinocchiogoria page as its own index, despite the fact that the page itself doesn't have an index within the page. How do I fix this problem?
openMaybe check in case of a possibly edit war...
Well, this is most likely something that people rarely notice due to being one on the page that isn't viewed as much due to the work being more vague to the non-guest visitors of this site compared to others, but unfortunately for the person below who did this, I do stumble into the page on occasions. But anyways;
Thrilling One Way did uncomment Color-Coded Characters without changing the description (it was commented out by Hello83433, who thought it was ZCE), while adding information to Four Temperament Enesemble and also uncommenting it. This applies to not one, but two pages; Characters page D4DJ Happy Around
and Characters page D4DJ Peaky P-Key
.
I have no idea either about how to do about how much description the trope Color-Coded Characters needs to be valid and usable in the page information though. It isn't a solid claim myself, but it exists because of the "uncommenting" rule after someone comments it out as "ZCE".
Edited by JustNormalMusicLoveropenInviting others to forum threads
Hi there,
I've searched, but I'm afraid I can't seem to find the answer.
How do I invite another troper to a thread? Am I correct in thinking that adding a ~ symbol, followed by their user-name, pings them an alert in P Ms?
I've received P Ms saying a troper "wants to draw my attention to this Image Pickin' post" (for example) but I'm not sure how to do that myself.
Thank you,
Lex.

So I ended up coming across a page for p#blm, and I'm wondering if this is a project that has been discussed or permitted in the past, because the content looks sus as hell. This webcomic is a load of wall-of-text soyjak memes from 4chan where the shtick is that person A is introduced spouting a huge Wall of Text of racism/sexism/antisemitism/anti-LGBT/whatever hateful rhetoric before person B enters to with an equally huge Wall of Text arguing against their bigotry. All edits on the page since its creation have been handled by one troper.
Putting aside the questionable taste in subject matter (especially when half of it is loads of unfiltered hateful rhetoric written by a 4chan user), and especially not to put the troper on blast (they've done plenty of exceptional work and I fully believe the page was made in good faith), but is this actually something that warrants a page? I know There Is No Such Thing as Notability, but this feels sort of like a weird grey area considering the "soyjak" memes this thing is basing all its characters on are not of its own creation — the content is otherwise an author(s) delivering a pretty blatant war on straw and long proselytizing in "meme" format. Compare it to something like Rage Comics, which itself kind of has problems of coverage but at least treats the "work" about the actual original characters and contexts they're made for.
Edited by number9robotic