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Ask the Tropers:
openreport this user
I know I have probably talked about this before, but I want to report this user, Camilla, for the very nasty and unflattering things she's writing about the Pokemon Journeys character, Goh. You might know her as the author of Infinity Train Blossoming Trail.
She originally wrote the fic as a way to vent frustration at Chloe Cerise not getting enough focus in the series, and due to her belief that she and Goh aren't friends despite evidence in the show that they are. It wasn't a problem then at first, but now it's been almost six years since Journeys began and over a year and a half since it ended. And it's gotten to the point where she's now just using TV Tropes as an excuse to bash the character for how he was written.
TL;DR. My point is, this has been going for a while (too long) and several other users, including myself, have tried asking Camilla to either stop or at least try to tone things down, but she does not listen. I understand this is often a tricky subject, and that when it comes to fanfiction writing, everybody is entitled to their own option. However, there is a fine line between expressing one's opinion of a fictional character, and just needlessly punishing them for something that isn't even their fault.
resolved Heavy-handed "badge of honor" troping Live Action TV
rr3elite appears to have a major Single-Issue Wonk focused on showing off the villainy of the character Zein from Kamen Rider Outsiders and their appearances in other Kamen Rider media, including this week's episode of Kamen Rider Gotchard. I initially reported them on ATT before
for shoehorning in Fan Myopia-laden comparisons to other works through misuse of various tropes, but it is now clear that was a symptom of a much bigger wonk, mostly afflicting Zein's sheet, the page for Outsiders itself, and various pages for Gotchard (YMMV, antagonists sheet, Nightmare Fuel, #33's recap) where Zein's appearance is concerned.
I haven't sent any notifiers because there's too many offending edits to comb through, but a lot of their edits consist of what they have previously been reported for, plus Bold Inflation, countless sentence structure and grammar errors, and "look at how horrible this person is" examples that stretch Zein's villainynote it is a sapient AI that has placed the world into an authoritarian surveillance state with the intent of mass genocide and has manipulated the heroes into giving it its resources, but I would hesitate to call a lot of its actions deliberately symbolic or nuanced beyond face value.. They also added Speculative Troping examples to Gotchard #33's recap suggesting Zein would have had a darker and more dramatic role in the episode, when in reality he only appears to kill one of the unambiguously-evil villains in the episode and leaves just as quickly to promote Outsiders.
I'm not sure if this is a policy violation in its own right, but I cannot deny in good faith that it is starting to compromise their writing and thus the quality of the pages they are editing.
EDIT: The issue has persisted despite previous mod notifiers and acknowledgement of behavior. More information in comments.
EDIT 2: There are still issues coming from this troper despite the above. As before, more information in comments.
Edited by TrocyteVopenReporting myself for changing image without Image Pickin' thread
A while back, I changed the image for L'État, c'est moi, but I got ahead of myself and only realized I was supposed to make an Image Pickin' thread after the fact. I've gone back and reverted to the original image while dummying out the new one(s) until I figure out what to do about it.
Should I start an image pickin' thread now? Should I just delete the dummied out images? Was my infraction particularly bad?
Edited by DancouMaryuuopenRemoved elaborated context in trope example Videogame
In Characters.Goddess Of Victory Nikke:
- Iron Scope added a Compelling Voice example in Little Mermaid's character folder
, which reads as a ZCE as it only says that she shares a power with two other characters.
- I edited the example
to elaborate on how she fits Compelling Voice as to not make it a ZCE.
- Sonic Gamer 07 alters the example to remove the description of how her powers work
, only referring it by comparing it to other characters and with a work-specific term for it (kotodama).
I don't think it's good to remove context from an example to make it rely on knowledge of other characters instead of letting it stand by itself, which would make it a bit confusing for readers who aren't familiar with the game, plus according to the "hidden trope name" rule of thumb for ZC Es, it doesn't really specify that her powers are a Compelling Voice. Can I add back the elaboration to not make it a ZCE that's too reliant on work knowledge or at least send a notifier to SonicGamer07?
Edited by Excessive-Menaceresolved Real-life deaths on Tearjerker pages - yay or nay?
I was just checking out the Vinesauce Tearjerker page, and last year someone removed two entries saying that "real life deaths should not be included in Tearjerker pages".
To a point, I can agree. Like if Max Von Sydow was in a movie back in 1978, and someone added his death to the Tearjerker page for that movie when he passed away decades later - yeah, that'd be a major stretch. But this particular instance has me scratching my head.
The entries that were removed pertained to a dog named Molly, who was euthanized due to her health failing, and a community member named Vappyvap 88, who passed away in 2020 due to complications from COVID.
I'm not going to go into elaborate detail about Molly - I don't agree with cutting the entry, since the decision to have her put down was discussed during a stream and clearly had a lot of emotional weight attached to it - making it eligible as a Tearjerker moment for the Vinesauce stream imo - but I'll leave the issue be.
But I do want to talk about Vappyvap 88, because he collaborated with Vinny (one of the Vinesauce streamers) for years. He spent time archiving Vinny's stream VO Ds on his own time, which led to the creation of an official VOD channel on You Tube that Vappy ran in collaboration with Vinny. He eventually stepped down, with Vinny hiring a replacement manager to run the channel, but to a point he was an official collaborator - down to being listed on the Vinesauce characters page alongside the main streamers and other collaborators.
People knew who he was. He was a community member, and his contributions helped to grow the stream and offer more content to the community. And while it was mentioned briefly in passing on the stream - it was extremely upsetting to learn that he had passed away, as a longtime community member.
The reason I feel so strongly about this is because streaming tends to blur the lines between "the stream" as a consumable media product, and real life. Streamers are characters up to a point, but real life hardships do occur and can affect the emotional tone of a stream.
And while I can understand the logic behind keeping real life deaths out of a work's tearjerker page, Vappyvap 88 was involved in one facet of the broader Vinesauce operation. To a point, he was a part of the stream. And it seems callous to remove an entry talking about his death, though I'm clearly biased.
So that's why I'm bringing it to Ask the Tropers. Personally, I see the sense in discouraging real-life entries on a work's Tearjerker pages; point out the tribute in Star Trek Beyond to Anton Yelchin, rather than describing the young star's untimely death which was removed from the media itself, that sort of thing. But streaming, as a form of web video, has a bit more of a connection to the real world - and real world tragedies, like the death of a pet that the audience has heard about for years, or the death of a prominent community member and long-term stream collaborator, will matter to the audience and likely come up during the course of the stream itself.
What do you guys think? And if push comes to shove, and the actual stream clip can be tracked down and linked as an emotional moment - does that qualify an event like this to be included on a page like the stream's Tearjerker page? At that point it would be discussing a moment that occurs during the stream, though the general tone and context of the clip would have to factor in, of course.
openDoubts on a page being relevant
So I stumbled upon UsefulNotes.Viscount Goderich being deleted, upon the argument that, basically, here at TV Tropes we are not out to have equivalents to Wikipedia, but rather to focus on how the subject appears in (or influences) fiction, and in this case, there were no media examples on the page, nor does Wikipedia itself have any reference to any portrayals in fiction (this actually started out a short-term thread
about similar pages about UK Prime Ministers). The point is, this discussion reminded me of a page that has basically the same issues: UsefulNotes.United Kingdom General Election 2015. The page is essentially a rather dry overview of that election... and that's it. No references to it being referenced in fiction, none. Nothing. If anything, in my view, the referendum that took place the following year that resulted in Brexit would be probably more worthy of a page like that since it has media about it that exists on This Very Wiki (like Brexit: The Uncivil War). Should we cut this page? I considered raising the question on a forum thread but I couldn't find one about a topic similar to this one (unless the aforementioned British Politicians threads counted as one, but I think that's a bit of a stretch).
resolved Requesting list cuts on Survival Horror
Hello,
The Survival Horror description is lots of words yet little and contradictory content. This is generally not a problem for me because I can get definitions for survival horror off-site, but then there are four lists on the page that create extra confusion. I was wondering if I could get permission here to cut out some entries and move others.
I would like permission to delete the entire list except for the following entries that I believe to be specific (enough) to survival horror:
- Ammunition Conservation
- Apocalyptic Log
- Booby Trap
- Closed Circle
- Controllable Helplessness
- Cower Power
- Drought Level of Doom
- Early Game Hell
- Emergency Weapon
- Injured Self-Drag
- Inventory Management Puzzle
- Resources Management Gameplay
- Stealth-Based Mission
- Story Bread Crumbs
- Tank Controls
Obviously more can be kept, but I believe that the list as is serves no purpose.
Others on the list are as curious to me as some entries on in the survival horror list proper. Batman: Arkham Asylum is a Beat 'em Up and most of the description is how Batman is the horror that the mooks need to survive. This has nothing to do with survival horror as a theme-gameplay hybrid genre. Subnautica and The Stomping Land are survival games with a horror element, but they're not survival horror. Is Tomb Raider on the list because of Atlantis? True, creepy level, but that alone doesn't even make it action horror. And with Homeworld: Cataclysm, Total War: Attila, and XCOM, the horror element is doubtful and otherwise they're just strategy games. Can these at least be removed?
openAudience Alienating Premise Literature cleanup
Under Audience-Alienating Premise, I noticed much under the Literature folder lacks the required objective proof of audiences alienation. It's going to be a big enough removal I'm getting feedback here first.
Literature can self publish and doesn't have the sales criteria that are normal proof of audience alienation. So I ask if it is possible to judge if literature applies?
Many of them use as proof they haven't been adapted, that seems like tedious proof (many even well received work don't get adapted), does that count?
openAlternateUniverse or AlternateTimeline ?
So I’m looking at this plot point of this show I used to be into called Every Witch Way with the fourth season.
To try to keep it short the fourth season has a storyline in which a Cosmic Retcon more or less decanonizes the first three, and heavily alters the lives of all the characters. This altered reality ultimately becomes the new "canon" timeline in the final season, with the first three being Exiled from Continuity. What I’m wondering is if this would be a case of Alternate Timeline or Alternate Universe, since it’s a case of the show’s universe rewriting the characters lives and practically erasing the first three seasons.
For reference the entry I was planning to make would look like this. I just need to know what trope it fits better with.
- Every Witch Way: The fourth and final season introduces the Continuum Break; an anomalous Cosmic Retcon caused by Emma unwittingly altering reality and giving the people around her alternate lives — seemingly erased or heavily altered the events of the first three seasons. In this alternate version of their lives Emma knew and dated Jax as far back as when when she first attended Iridium High; Daniel never knew Emma or their friends, and was living in the Everglades with his family, running an animal sanctuary; Jax more or less takes Daniel's place in their friends lives; Mia has also been dating and living Daniel; and where Mia's parents were deceased in her "original" life, not only are they still alive, but Mia herself no longe has her kanay powers.
resolved Misinformed trope question?
Found and discovered this one year earlier from John Wick franchise's trope example and something that I want to point out from my experience:
- Men Are the Expendable Gender: Prevalent in the first three movies. In contrast to the 250+ men that John killed throughout the series, the number of female Mooks he has encountered could be literally counted on one hand: Ms. Perkins in the first film, Ares and the Violinist in the second, and the young assassin at Grand Central Station in the third. Of these characters, only the Grand Central assassin was a completely throwaway extra. John Wick: Chapter 4 tipped the balance and added many more female Mooks to go after John (and be gunned down in turn).
I think the Men Are the Expendable Gender trope itself being added as an example is fine but still as mentioned above I believe the balance isn't exactly been "tipped" within Chapter 4. I would like to rewrite it in someway or form, unfortunately I'm just simply not good with writing. I know there is a place called "Is This An Example" thread and should have visited that said thread myself but I'm not exactly sure when was the right time to ask this topic, so I honestly thought it would be better to ask here instead. I don't meant anything "bad" by it, I simply found this writing of "John Wick: Chapter 4 tipped the balance and added many more female Mooks to go after John (and be gunned down in turn)" part specifically questionable as well as pointing out the facts straight. Anyhow I want to hear another person's thoughts or opinion on this matter in regards to the Men Are the Expendable Gender trope?
Side note: I apologize in advance if I am wrong, or rather if this trope question being too trivial as this for a topic?
Edited by YatasumujiSenpaiopenJoke CM/MB Just For Fun questions
JustForFun.Joke Complete Monster and JustForFun.Joke Magnificent Bastard were just created. Given the current freeze on actual CM/MB entries I want to double-check if this is valid. The mod statement
on the matter said joke threads are not an issue, but this seems like a new thread created in response to the freeze which they said is not allowed, so unsure what to make of it.
From the Joke CM page:
- Pokémon Black and White: [[StrawHypocrite Ghetsis Harmonia Gropius]] is the true mastermind behind [[AnimalWrongsGroup Team Plasma]], and the man manipulating the "king" of the team, his son [[AntiVillain N]]. [[InsistentTerminology As we see on screen]], Ghetsis subjected his son N to various cruel forms of abuse as a child to mold him into a misanthrope who thinks that all Pokémon trainers are evil. Meanwhile, [[ImpliedTrope we have on-screen evidence]] that Ghetsis also abuses his own Pokémon and that they have no love for him. In the sequel ''VideoGame/PokemonBlack2AndWhite2'', after Team Plasma split apart, Ghetsis hatched a new scheme: he subjected Opelucid City to the [[{{Pun}} frigid]] [[FridgeHorror horror]] of being encaced in ice, [[InsistentTerminology as we see on screen]]. Motivated only by his own selfish desire to TakeOverTheWorld, Ghetsis is one of the most heinous villains to ever [[InsistentTerminology have their crimes depicted on-screen]] in the ''Pokémon'' games.
Not sure if this is a valid joke entry as this is a character many want to be a serious CM and the parts that show it a joke are hidden in potholes and even then not apparent to anyone unfamiliar with our CM rules. Or is that not an issue for a Just For Fun page?
openEdit war and grammar issues
On Command & Conquer: Red Alert Series — Soviet Units, after I removed the Heavily Armored Mook example for being misuse (the unit in question only has better armour than another faction's counterpart and is still rather lightly armoured by the whole game's standards), Darth Walrus (who originally added this example) added it back without any discussion. Some of their recent edits on Command & Conquer: Red Alert Series — Allied Units and Command & Conquer: Red Alert Series — Empire of the Rising Sun Units also have rather dodgy grammar (with sentences like 'The Harbinger is the third most air unit in the game by default; taking Advanced Aeronautics upgrades it to second place, with ever-so-slightly more hp than the Kirov.' and 'It that can win the third Imperial campaign mission by itself').
Edited by HTDopenCheck TLP Votes?
I could have sworn there used to be an option to view who voted which way in a TLP draft, but for the life of me I cannot find the button to do so. I suspect a couple of self-hatters, but I can't tell for sure.
resolved Ultra Series - Found an eyebrow-raising YMMV post Live Action TV
The post in question goes like this here
:
- What Do You Mean, It's Not Political?: Some have criticized the franchise for supposedly having nationalistic anti-foreign sentiments, seeing the Japanese defense teams defending against various alien threats as paralleling Japan pushing away foreigners and foreign influence. Many point to the second episode of the original Ultraman as an example, where the Baltan aliens were fleeing refugees after they blew up their own planet.note Ignoring the fact that they were planning to enslave humanity and take the planet by force, and Science Patrol actually okayed the idea of the Baltans living on the planet so long as they abided Earth's laws (which the aliens refused). This is ignoring the many times that aliens were shown sympathetically (even as tragic victims of allegorical racismnote such as in episode 33 of Return of Ultraman, episode 25 of Ultraman Max, and many episodes of Ultraseven) and the main heroes, the Ultramen, are well... aliens. The Science Patrol is also shown to be an international organisation, the series just focuses on the Japanese branch.
The post ends up contradicting itself. Should it stay or be removed?
Edited by 9thOutworldsManopenLarge removal of 'Unintentionally Sympathetic/Unsympathetic from YMMV/ShatteredSkiesTheMorningLights
Flare up from a bit ago that seems like a problematic edit.
By user Rbookchild
, it basically nuked the unintentionally sympathetic and unsympathetic sections because they disagreed with them. Which I am certainly aware does happen, but its also 'Your Mileage May Vary' and I've seen sentiments of that nature shared about the fic both in how many people edited or added to those sections here or commented elsewhere on the matter, so there are people with this opinion out there. Seems like a pretty clear case, and honestly I wouldn't hesitate to put it back myself and send a PM to Rbook on the matter, and I did send a PM a month ago that never got responded to, but I had previously edited the section twice. I neither created it or was the last one to edit it, and one of the edits was a general clean-up on the page that was previously unalphabetized, but I don't know if that would count as an edit war or not due to those edits, hence bringing it up here to avoid any issues.
resolved Replacing page image you put there yourself
Good day.
I was wondering: If you want to replace the page image of a page you launched that still has the page image you picked pre-launch, do you still have to start an Image Pickin' threat for it?
openPage move request Literature
I've been thinking that the page for the Black Lagoon book series should be moved to The Black Lagoon which seems to be its official name, and it would help avoid confusion with the Black Lagoon anime. Is this something I can do myself or do I need permission from a mod first?
Edited by Javertshark13resolved Pre-show Debut Western Animation
What's the name for the Trope where a character first appears in some type of promotional picture or merchandise before their actual debut in the show itself?

Urbenmyth seems to have take it upon themself to make unilateral, large-scale edits to
Artistic License – Traditional Christianity, before making a discussion post
to complain about the trope, and then cutlisting the trope page entirely without any kind of permission
.