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resolved Should this deleted YMMV entry be restored? Western Animation
On Arcane's YMMV page, Damian Wayne deleted this "One True Pairing" entry
for the second time in a row even after a previous ATT thread
on this very same topic resolved itself with an overall consensus that it did indeed qualify as an example. This was the initial reason the troper gave for deleting it:
- "OTP indicates a ship that is universally beloved to the point there are no significant alternatives to it. A quick look on any fan site will show that this isn't the case for Ekko/Jinx.Not only does Lightcannon fan works keep getting updated, but most of the work featuring Jinx hardly feature her in a romantic relationship at all."
As what was already noted in the aforementioned ATT thread, the One True Pairing page does not describe a pairing that is "universally beloved" to the point where no alternatives exist. It simply describes a phenomena whenever there is a pairing within a work that is preferred by a group of fans above others, in-which the "Ekko/Jinx" ship qualifies for within the context of Arcane due to the wave of positive reception and fan art seen across social media (general critic and audience reactions, YouTube, Twitter, Tiktok, Reddit, etc.) after the debut of Season 2's final batch of episodes. There is no rule that states the existence of another ship disqualifies an OTP nor is there anything that bars qualification if the pairing also has detractors, which is part of the reason why Ship-to-Ship Combat exists.
I did attempt to message the troper to try and open up a dialogue over the deletion but they never made a reply. After waiting a couple of days, I restored the entry. But as I already mentioned, it was deleted again by the same troper. This was the new reason they gave alongside adding a No Yay entry in place of it:
- "I hope this new entry will finally put an end to this argument"
Out of a desire to avoid an editing war over a ship of all things, I wanted to get some outside opinions on the matter. Should the original OTP entry be restored? Or is there something I'm missing that warrants the example's deletion?
Edited by KillionaireopenPreventing an Edit War Western Animation
In What If...? S3E3 "What If... The Red Guardian Stopped the Winter Soldier?":
- I added an trope
- palm529sw removed it
thinking it doesn’t apply to characters who also died in the source material.
I know this trope can be applied if a character dies sooner than in the source material as explained in the page itself. Can I get consensus to reapply it?
Edited by MaxyGregoryyyyopenShipping misuse?
This was recently moved from Fanfic.Harry Potter And The Veil Of Mystery to it's YMMV page:
- Shipping: Fairly bog-standard, but there's a few surprises. Harry Potter dates Ginny Weasley, Ron Weasley dates Pansy Parkinson, and Hermione Granger dates Neville Longbottom. It's mostly kept in the background, but the romantic trials and tribulations of the teenagers do occasionally provide fodder for the Moral Dilemma issues.
Shipping is YMMV, but I believe it is misused here as about fan reactions to the source work, so fanworks deliberately paring them are not examples themselves. So cut as not YMMV as about the work paring them not audiences?
On the subject, what about works where possible romance and love triangles are intentional? Does Shipping as an item not apply there as not meaningful/too common if intentional? Or is the only part there the ship names or the popularity.
My question is what is the line between Shipping and deliberately teased ships? (Unintentional ships might be Shipping Goggles which disallow examples, so I wonder if Shipping itself which is even broader is too broad?)
Always open to sharing avatars and chatting. Can message me for either. (He/Him) Currently watching: BTAS (Finished)
resolved Problem with an RP player at Forum Games
So, Blase Son Of A Gun 1988 has a bit of a recurring problem at Our Avatars Are Posting In A Forum Thread
.
- First, he's been godmodding like crazy and his character is basically a Gary Stu/Anti Sue that loves to fight and can beat literally anything. Pretty much his whole character shtick is 'Punches things really hard because he needs to fight something'. This isn't usually a problem except that's all he literally do to the point it gets annoying. We told him to stop and do something else but nada. 'Claidheamh' can also beat a million mooks daily on a regular basis and can rip apart through dimensions. Again, bit of a problem because the whole point of the thread is 'avatars chat with each other', not 'avatars fight Claidheamh and get stomped because he is just that awesome'.
- Second, he has a tendency to bring and stir up dramas, not only in the RP but also at the What Offends Your Avatar About the Above Post
. Yeah the whole point of the thread is obvious but he's been unneccessarily rude sometimes , and with what happened with the previous thread
, we really don't want history to repeat itself here.
Can something be done about him here? This problem has been recurring ever since he started, and it hasn't improved much since.
Edited by Myskywarmresolved A strangely added YMMV trope question?
Recently found this trope from the YMMV for the western animation movie Legend of the Guardians: The Owls of Ga'Hoole.
- Complete Monster: Metal Beak, real name Surtr, is a savage owl and the leader of the Pure Ones. Embarking on a war of conquest to kill all who oppose him, Metal Beak is fond of "moonblinking" victims, turning them into mindless slaves and robbing them of their identities, with even children subjected to the process. His intention behind enslaving them is to use magical flecks to set up a trap to kill all of the Guardians and moonblinked owls by draining their blood with bats after their gizzards are severely weakened, using his traitorous spy Allomere to lead them to certain death. When Allomere is no longer needed, Metal Beak leaves him to be devoured by the bats after falsely promising to make him King of the Great Tree, and later on attempts to kill the hero Soren in front of his sworn nemesis and Soren's teacher, Lyze of Kiel, out of little more than savage spite.
- Video game: Allomere is a traitor to his people and the true villain of Shard's quest. Long ago having secretly aligned with the Pure Ones in the name of power, Allomere paved the way for the Pure Ones to slaughter the Glauxian monastery, which Allomere framed the innocent Grettir for. Allomere then hunted down and killed Grettir and his mate to silence all loose ends, narrowly prevented from claiming the life of Grettir's son Shard, too. Years later, Allomere continues to serve the Pure Ones' purposes and give them inside info that helps their wicked plans to enslave and moonblink all owlets. Allomere reveals himself as the traitor by trying to trap and murder a large group of heroic Guardians, and when confronted by Shard, Allomere smugly boasts of his hand in the deaths of Shard's parents.
Any thoughts or suggestions on this?
Edited by YatasumujiSenpaiopen"Semi-avoidance" on CrossDressingVoices
On a few pages (ex. Trivia.Unicorn Overlord and Trivia.Ranma One Half), troper Chef Cranky Roger has a weird wonk towards "semi-avoided" examples of Cross-Dressing Voices. As in, writing entry about whether a non-binary/agender actor in more masculine/feminine leaning.
As an example:
- Cross-Dressing Voices:
- In a semi-avoidance, Akane Tendō's English voice actress, Valeria Rodriguez, is genderfluid, using any pronouns, including her "assigned female at birth" pronouns of she/her.
- Another semi-avoidance is Azusa Shiratori's dub VA, Kayli Mills, who identfies herself as she/they feminine non-binary.
Aside from the fact that trivia tropes can't be played with and the grammar just kinda sucks, this hyperfixation on the actors AGAB kinda rubs me the wrong way.
What should we do about it?
resolved revert for SelfDemonstrating/CAPSLOCK
someone updated everything in Self-Demonstrating/CAPSLOCK to be upper case, but this breaks the wiki code; can a mod get a revert?
openWhatMeasureIsAnIndex
I brought this up at Is This an Example, but got no reply so I am bringing the discussion here.
What Measure Is an Index? is about Narrative Disregard, but with most tropes listed the disregard comes from the characters which the story portrays negatively.
- What Measure Is an Alternate Reality? (Expendable Alternate Universe)
- What Measure Is Another Race? (Would Be Rude to Say "Genocide") Would Be Rude to Say "Genocide" involves in-universe covering up of Genocide, rarely if ever does the story itself disregard the genocide.
- What Measure Is Another Realm? (Up the Real Rabbit Hole)
- What Measure Is a Traitor? (Category Traitor) Usually the character declaring other to be a Category Traitor is portrayed as a hateful bigot
- What Measure Is a Humanoid?
- What Measure Is a Mook?
- What Measure Is a Clone? (Expendable Clone)
- What Measure Is a Non-Animal? (That Poor Plant)
- What Measure Is a Non-Cute? (Bambi Effect)
- What Measure Is a Non-Human?
- What Measure Is a Non-Magic? (Wrong Context Magic) Wrong Context Magic is rarely potrayed as bad or expandable by the story itself.
- What Measure Is a Non-Original Item? (Ship of Theseus) Theseus' Ship Paradox is a discussion of whether an item is the original or not, but rarely is said item treated as expandable due to not being original.
- What Measure Is an Infidel? (With Us Or Against Us) With Us or Against Us is a mentality portrayed in a negative light, with said individuals rightfully defending themselves.
- What Measure Is a Dissenter? (The Complainer is Always Wrong)
- What Measure Is a Non-Super? (Muggle Power) Rarely does Muggle Power involve genuinely oppressed muggles treated as just jealous by the narrative. Stories themselves disregarding the lives and views of muggles is a potential trope in and of itself.
- What Measure Is a Non-Unique? (Uniqueness Value)
- What Measure is a Unique? (All of the Other Reindeer) All of the Other Reindeer is about society shunning the character being portrayed in a negative light, usually learning an aesop about said shunning.
resolved Can’t think of a title
So, if something like a “replay” icon is shown within a video itself, is that allowed?
Edited by Puttotheangel23resolved About Katriel Videogame
Today a troper named Katriel posted a theory on Choices: Stories You Play the problem is it's completely written badly to the point no one can understand it, here it is.
"What more deconstructive/ subversive/ satirical takes on standard choices archetypes and genres could look like A work story with all of the elements of typical choices work stories : a competition in place , a jealous rival willing to resort to any means to dethrone us from the top , an unusually physically attractive boss ... except the job in question is sewage treatment and any [[romance sleeping with the boss ]] is off the table for whatever reason , [[constantly lampshade how dubiously legal the affair is better than a bare bulb ]] , or [[mercilessly deconstruct the trope deconstructed trope]] by underscoring how [[horrifying played for horror]] it would actually be to work under a charismatic , experienced , and halo effect inducingly beautiful person who is attracted to you ... but the feeling is not mutual. Worse yet , all your friends and coworkers dismiss, downplay, and even [[ship you shipper on deck]] with your predator, to the point where they cannot stop [[gushing about how amazing and great they are Creators pet]]. All in all, the [[ultimate message of the story is central theme]] that while not all jobs can or should be necessarily glamorized, they are still important to keep society running and, as a matter of fact might be far more important than many of those "glamorous" careers. A romance from [[ the perspective of perspective flip]] the "other woman" rival seen in more recent romances. In a manner akin to [[ Crazy ex-Girlfriend]] we could delve into the forces that [[psychologically Freudian excuse]] made her into the person she is. Perhaps the plot could focus on her attempts to actually keep a romantic partner after a long history of being dumped by (and in one case [[left at the alter]] by) so many former flames. [[This time never be hurt again]], our heroine chooses to model herself after the sweet [[ childhood friends]] and the [[ maniac pixie dream girls]] that she was dumped for; as well as [[Rom - Com Protagonists in general genre savvy]]. An [[ inversion]] of the "Hollywood" stories that are the bread and butter of so many VN apps like this one. In other words [[ the player character would begin the story with a mansion , a steady partner , and immense fame to an obscure star living out in middle America ; eeking out a living riches to rags]] . It could be a capital "T" [[ Tragedy]] following a once reknowned Writer,Director , and performer from the [[ pre- Hays code]] era as they struggle against greater powers to include radical themes within their projects. [[ Ultimately , though foregone conclusion]] they [[downer ending lose all they once had]] including their [[ mansion]] , respect amung filmmaking elites , and their partner to the fears inflamed by the [[ red scare]] , the [[extreme censorship that smothered their ability to tell the stories they needed to tell bowdlerized]] , and the [[passage of time that obscured their name look upon my works ye mighty and despair]]. The [[frame story]] could center around some [[ greek chorus podcasters]] helping a curator collect interviews and personal objects from the protagonists life , therefore justifying a "collection minigame ", in order to exhibit for a new section on <span style="font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"> [[ pre- Hays code]] era" ^ (what Katriel typed not me)
Should we send Katriel a notifer to type their sentences better so we can understand them?
Edited by RyckmanhopenAsshole Victim misuse re-added, salvageable?
This was added to Mephiles under Characters.Sonic The Hedgehog Modern Era Antagonists 1 Mainline Games
- Asshole Victim: His fate in Shadow Generations is rather horrifying as he wants nothing more than to be free from the non-existence the Cosmic Retcon at the end of '06 did to him, but even Shadow, who has no recollection of him, knows that he's a murderous destroyer who cannot be let free in any capacity. In fact, he tried to completely wipe out all of time after reuniting with Iblis, so if anything being Ret-Gone is a fitting punishment for him.
This was previously deemed misuse
as he was trying to kill Shadow who only retaliated in self-defense, so not a Victim.
I realized there is an argument for Victim in that Black Doom set him up to be defeated in Generation as part of his Evil Plan, and Shadow didn't know about his atrocities/omnicidal ambitions that would 100% justify stopping him regardless of just being in his way, thoughts?
openPossibly disruptive user
On Characters.The Amazing Digital Circus Players, WELLBEBACK 7653 has made 3 edits changing the label of the hidden spoiler image in Kaufmo's folder to "NO WAY OUT", except that label only makes sense if you've already watched The Amazing Digital Circus, so the phrase by itself is a revealing spoiler. I'm asking if anyone can revert that change.
I'm aware that there's a previous ATT query
about this troper, so we may need to check their other edits.
openMaking a Private WiP Page
So I'm a busy man, which means I don't have much free time to add or make pages. And I want to make a character page, but since I don't have much time for myself to work on it, how do I make a page private to myself so I can work on it when I do have the time and post it when there's much more to the page besides red links?
resolved Diesel Punk or Oceanpunk? Videogame
I really like the look and feel of this videogame called The Brew Barons, a Ghibli-inspired video game where you fly seaplanes, collect items to brew different kinds of alcohol, and fight off sky pirates (just like the epitomous Porco Rosso).
I don't own the game nor can my laptops run it so even if I want to write the page, I'm sadly out of the loop. So as a sort of bookmark, I thought to make it a red link for the time being, hoping either I get to play it one day for myself or someone else makes the page for the rest of us. However, I don't know whether to put it in Ocean Punk or Diesel Punk, or if I should even make a redlink at all.
openQuestion about spoilers for tropes;
If the fact that the trope applies is a spoiler in and of itself, could it potentially be worth spoiling the trope name and example separately so that if someone wanted to know, they could reveal the trope name first and then decide if they want to see the example from there?
openUsing swearing when describing tropes - permitted or forbidden?
I know gratuitous profanity in examples is listed as Word Cruft while also being a Bluenose Bowdlerizer is discouraged, but as far as TV Tropes' generally accepted and striven for writing conventions in articles, does using terms like "fucks it up", "being an asshole", or "being his dumbass self" go against any of the Adminstrivia policies when editing articles? I know we have more lenient POV guidelines than Wikipedia or Fandom like allowing the generic "Tropes that apply" or "Visit the unabridged version HERE" being allowed to be written to reflect a quote or theme of the work documented, but I don't know if the same applies to asterisk-preceded examples.
I'm mainly talking about pages on works in any medium rather than Tropes themselves, as those are usually written from a subjective and generalizing standpoint with some humor thrown in at the beginning paragraph and/or folders if it's comedic or imitating the character subject of the trope. But from my experience, examples on a work's page are described more seriously, but I'm not sure what the line is for occasional allowances of language in example descriptions that wouldn't change the meaning/point either way if they were changed into something more informal (-> being an asshole -> being a jerk -> being arrogant/selfish/rude). Even if such a rule were in place or preferred, tropes that already have profanity in the title like Asshole Victim or Bitch in Sheep's Clothing would obviously be exceptions whether following the asterisk or being mentioned in a sentence after the colon of another trope, since Sinkholing is forbidden as a format regardless of the trope name.
I'm also wondering if it depends on the target demographic of the work and/or the subpage the profane descriptions of an applicable trope is used? What may seem like conventional description on a South Park example feels a bit out of place on a SpongeBob one.
Edited by TacoyogoopenProblem troper
Urania 1204 re-added ZC Es without actually adding context to the entry itself on at least two separate occasions (here)
and here
. They've also misused tropes
, and added aversions as an example here
. I've sent notifiers and reverted edits where someone else hasn't already done so, but given that and their prior conduct (including in a previous ATT query thread
), what should be done next?
resolved "Blitzo" or "Blitzø" for ''Helluva Boss'' main character? Web Original
There's been a bit of a back and forth between myself and another editor—TheAmazingBlachman—as to whether or not the main character of Helluva Boss' name should be spelled "Blitzo" or "Blitzø".
For context—the main character in question is an imp assassin who in his youth was a circus clown named "Blitzo", but as an adult he spells his name "Blitzø" (how it's spelled on official merch and in the credits, with the "ø" representing a crossed-out "o") or "Blitz⦻" (how it's spelled in the episode "Truth Seekers"—again to emphasize that the "o" has been crossed out) and pronounces it "Blitz" (which is how some of the other characters spell it) in order to make himself sound more mature and badass.
TheAmazingBlachman's point of contention, to my understanding, is that "ø" is an actual letter in several languages, and therefore Helluva Boss improperly using it in the main character's name to represent a crossed-out "o" comes across as nonsensical to speakers of those languages—akin to a played-straight usage of The Backwards Я. Ergo, TheAmazingBlachman has been going through and changing "Blitzø" to "Blitzo" because—to quote the editing reason—"Ø is an actual letter, not a silent O, and his name sure isn't Blitz-euh."
I'm personally of the opinion that—at least when referring to the character as an adult—his name should be spelled how the series does in the credits and official merch, but our discussion in DMs was going in circles without resolution so I figured the matter should be taken to ATT for a vote rather than risk an edit war starting up.

While I was looking through the Christmas Elves trope, I stumbled upon this section on the Literature folder: "In the 1880s, Margaret T. Canby speculated that Santa got his elves one year when so many children had been good that he just couldn't do everything himself. They normally lived underground in winter and mined for treasure like Tolkien dwarves, but this group was getting bored with that and wanted to see the world", and it says that this is featured in Birdie and his Fairy Friends.
Thing is, I tried looking everywhere on that book and I couldn't find that specific info. about the elves. Does someone know where exactly does it say this?