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resolved SnowPatrol = Similar_Set_6582?
Per this ATT thread
, the troper zombies4eva made a report trying to get another troper in trouble for "un-reverting ban evader edits", only for it to turn out that zombies4eva was ban evading themself. While their edits have been taken care of, one question remains. A troper by the name of Snow Patrol started the discussion post
that zombies4eva replied to and took to ATT, and seeing that zombies4eva was apparently ban evading with at least two other accounts around the same time,I was just wondering if Snow Patrol is another sock of theirs. Even if it isn't, Snow Patrol's discussion post is near-identical to the one that Similar Set made on Reddit
, meaning that they're engaging in drama importation/exportation, if nothing else. The fact that they've made no edits on this wiki and only seem to have made the account to add the discussion post only fuels the point.
As the mods have said, while there's nothing they can do about a Reddit (or any other website) user stirring up trouble on this wiki, they can do something if the person also has an account on TVT.
Edited by UFOYeahresolved Should these be Creator or Useful Notes?
A few months back
, someone suggested moving Karl Marx from the Creator namespace to the Useful Notes namespace, arguing that his writings are not tropeworthy but the man himself makes enough appearances in media (as a Historical Domain Character) to warrant coverage on Useful Notes. I made a similar argument for Cicero.
There seemed be some support for a move, but I think I would like a greater consensus. In addition, I know how to change page type, but I'm not too sure what to do after that (aside from culling the trope lists).
resolved Image Caption Pickin'
Is the Image Pickin' thread the place to talk with other Tropers about adjusting the caption of a page image? Let me be clear; I'm not talking about changing a page image itself. That is very clearly what Image Pickin' is for. I'm talking about suggesting a change to a page image caption; while I'm quite sure that there's no policy against unilateral caption tweaking (and I've done so in the past — for instance, I was the one who added the caption
for the Mistaken for Racist article's page), in the instance I want to do right now, I think it is best to ask for community feedback before going ahead.
Specifically, what I want to do right now is add a note to the caption for the page image for That Came Out Wrong. The image and caption in question entail Leo of VG Cats being perceived as a weirdo for loitering around a school with the intention of "meeting kids" — with the caption being "He should have clarified that he wants to "meet" them on StreetPass." However, I had a bit of a Fridge Logic moment about this — most schools wouldn't want their students using a Nintendo 3DS for the same reasons they frown on cellphone usage (basically: it's a distraction from learning). So I felt like I should add a note to the caption to the effect of "It's not like a school would be the best place for StreetPassing anyways.", but I have a few reservations on whether or not this actually enhances the caption, so I figured I should ask for advice first.
Edited by Bomber-Boiresolved Self Demonstrating Character Pages
Do Self Demonstrating Character Pages require unanimous agreement to create or are they like Work pages and anyone can make one?
resolved Should FUSION FALLS: TAKE TWO! have a Surprisingly Realistic Outcome page?
Looking at the Fusion Falls Take Two page, it feels like this should be moved into some type of "deconstruction" label since it feels like a lot of these aren't immediate outcomes. For some examples
The fact that Equestria's royal guards have a history of being utterly useless, not even bothering to show up for major crises and letting the Mane Six handle it, is used by Sunset as an excuse to disband them in favor of human police who are actually trained to handle problems. Meanwhile, she also has to start seizing assets from the nobility and selling off the treasury to stabilize the economy until she can convert Equestria into a tourist destination, since it can now no longer support itself purely as an agricultural society when their magic-based agriculture no longer works.
Dee Dee's antics have much more serious consequences in a world without Toon Physics, ultimately resulting in her being arrested after causing a massive explosion that kills hundreds of people and causes millions in property damage, and then being institutionalized when she tries to laugh off her actions as joke.
And some examples feel more tied into the whole The Magic Goes Away deal.
Without magic to hold it at bay, the Wizarding World actually has to deal with the consequences of the extensive inbreeding that it relied on, causing many of them to die within a year of the Merge.
Without magic to maintain them, Storm King's fleet of airships are destroyed by the simple fact that keeping lava pools onboard wooden ships means that the latter will naturally be destroyed.
At the very least, the page probably needs a clean up.
Edited by JustaUsernameresolved Mistaken gender error
The author itself mistakes a character's gender.
In the Left 4 Dead campaign Death Toll, a character let someone else into his safe room but bit them because they were infected; however, he says, “I can’t believe HE bit me”, and inside there is the corpse of a female zombie.
resolved Cutting Oddity RPG pages Videogame
Folks, it's time to face facts: Oddity is never coming out. It's been five years since the initial announcement trailer with no major updates afterwards, over 17 years since the project started development as Mother 4, and the hype for this game has all but dried up. Since all of the Mother 4 pre-release material has been made obsolete and mostly deleted from the internet, we only have one trailer and a Twitter page that is barely updated to go off of.
When I did a second clean-up (the first clean-up was mostly to remove gushing) removing anything that went off of outdated (pre-rebrand) material or Word of God (which isn't allowed), there was barely anything left. On the Characters page alone, many of the folders were blank and that was before I touched them.
Also worth noting that there were a ton of commented out examples on the Characters page which I removed (there were also a bunch on the main page too before I cut those during my first clean-up). Commenting out examples on an unreleased work in anticipation for the work's release is also not allowed.
Yes, there is gameplay footage in the trailer but it barely tells us anything other than "it's a Mother-inspired RPG." Not much of a premise, and certainly not enough to warrant a page, especially when no information regarding the story, setting, and characters have been revealed afterwards. Literally the only information we have about the setting is "It takes place in a small town in 70s America." There are ten tropes on the main page but half of them are about the Modern Mind enemy instead of the game itself or the overall setting of the game. There's no release date, and at this rate there never will be.
Taking all of this into account I feel there is no longer a viable work page. I propose a cut of Oddity's pages and the material in Oddity's main page be moved to Release Date-Less Work Descriptions in the event the game does get a release.
Edited by supernintendo128openTropes used to be valid before, but not anymore... What to do? Videogame
In live-service games or those that keep on receiving updates. What should be done when an example that used to be valid or was applied in an older version suddenly got removed in a newer version?
- Keep the example but rewrite the context to state that it used to be the case until Version X removed it?
- Delete the entire trope example?
- When the game was newly-released, there was some fandom discussion on how Childe's name is supposed to be pronounced, because a very specific clip
from Paimon's English VA had the name pronounced like "child" at first, then like "chill-day" next, in the same sentence. I originally added it somewhere
as a trope example, but another troper deleted it
saying it was fixed in a newer version.
- A troper deleted some examples
from YMMV.Genshin Impact without providing an edit reason, though what can be assumed here is that they deleted examples that no longer applied to the newer versions of the game. One of the deleted examples was a Cheese Strategy that was so prevalent or known back in the day, it was widely believed that "miHoYo had to patch it out". The point here is that the cheese strat existed in the past and players were trying to re-create it
before and after it was patched. There were even discussions wondering why the boss arena's ceiling suddenly changed, and fingers were either pointed to this cheese strat with Guoba, another cheese strat with Klee, or it was a semi-related bug with the hole itself.
- Cheese Strategy: The Cryo Regisvine could be safely cheesed by using Xiangling to drop Goubas from a cliff directly above the arena, allowing players to chip off its HP even before it wakes up. The devs eventually caught on to the trick and patched it out in Version 1.1.
Other Genshin tropers brought this up too years ago in the Discussion tab
I'd like to know if there's a guideline for these kinds of examples here on TV Tropes, because there are several other live service games I know of here with trope examples that are "outdated" or "no longer applies in the newer version".
"Blind Idiot" Translation and Good Bad Translation examples also have this dilemma sometimes, as it's common for live-service game devs to fix translation/localization errors when pointed out by players in the game's online platforms.
Edited by DanteVinresolved Fair whodunit according to van dine.
I'm looking for examples of works that follow the twenty rules for a good detective story written by SS Van Dine, apart from the mysteries he wrote himself. There are many examples of knox's decalogue in the trope Fair-Play Whodunnit, but none about these other rules.
Edited by luigirovattiopenFormatting error on the Deadpool and Wolverine page - anyone know how to fix this? Film
Recently some trivia linked under spoiler tags are listed as invoked on the Deadpool & Wolverine page, but with the way it's formatted it breaks some of the example's spoiler tags (specifically under All for Nothing, Ambiguous Situation, and Self-Deprecation) - I've tried fixing it through editing previews, but nothing short of removing the invoked tags seems to be working.
openOvershadowed/commenting out misuse?
This is currently commented out under OvershadowedByControversy.Web Original:
- YouTuber and blogger Lily Orchard (formerly known as Lily Peet) was once known most for media analysis reviewing children's animation. However, she picked up an extremely negative reputation from controversies ranging from her extremely vitriolic coverage of the shows she reviews, her highly toxic behavior on-and-off platform—including her falling out with joshscorcher and the break up of her engagement to artist Lizzy Orchard—and a fanfic she wrote that contained explicit sex between adults and children. None of this would compare to the 2023 accusations by Lily Orchard's sister Courtney, who accused Lily of having sexually abused her when they were children. Orchard would release a video in May 2024 where she directly denied the allegations
and detailed her abusive childhood, including countering the incest arguments by saying it was Courtney who initiated the abuse, and also addressed some surrounding controversies about herself. Either way, the allegations of pedophilia, incest, and sexual assault have come to define Lily Orchard's online reputation far more than her actual content or opinions.
It was deleted Dec. 4th per cleanup
citing "Lily Orcahrd ultimatly attracts too many contraversies for one to outshine the rest". A separate troper added it back but commented out
citing "Looking at the cleanup thread, Lily still counts, its just unclear what specific controversy overshadows here. Commenting out until a consensus is reached"
I believe it was deemed misuse of commenting out to sneak in entires that violate rules like this does as written. So should it be deleted as misused as written and or replace with a not saying not to add them without forum approve (which would be required here given the connection caused)? Or what?
openEdit war on Ranma Saotome Anime
Okay, I didn't want to ring the alarm prematurely, but lately the page Characters.Ranma One Half Ranma Saotome is veering into an edit war between Midnight Star Hunter and Valentine Meikin, with some peanut gallery comments by Wandering Browser. (Myself, I'm only doing the occasional grammar edit on the page.)
The latest edit by Midnight Star Hunter includes an absolute Wall of Text of an edit reason accompanying an absolutely bloated trope entry; please check it out. I think that everybody needs to cool down and discuss it out before any further addition or removal.
openAbout Franchise-wide example subpages and inconsistency
I've been really wanting to bring this up for years, but only had enough info to say it now.
If a trope or YMMV lists examples for the entire franchise and its installments... what's the best way to deal with examples that are already in the specific installments' pages? Take Memes subpages and the Memetic Mutation examples in this case, Should we...
- Duplicate the examples in both the specific installment's YMMV page and the series-wide subpage?
- Prioritize the series-wide subpage and simply leave a link towards it in the specific installment's YMMV page?
- Put the examples only in the specific installment's YMMV page?
- Make a Memes subpage for that specific installment and have it separated from the series-wide Memes subpage?
I've seen a lot of inconsistency when it comes to these pages, especially the Memes, Shout-Out, and Fan Nickname subpages. The problem is that one list may have entries not found in the other list, or that there may be redundant examples.
For context, this is what I observed in Memes subpages alone:
- Memes.Persona exists (which includes memes for specific games like Persona 3 and Persona 3 Reload), but YMMV.Persona 3 and YMMV.Persona 3 Reload have their own lists of Memetic Mutation examples.
- Memes.Resident Evil groups the memes found in the original games and their remakes. There's already a list there for Resident Evil Village... and yet another Memes subpage, Memes.Resident Evil Village, exists for that game.
- Memes.Castlevania lists memes for the games, and yet there's a separate Memes page for the Castlevania (2017) Netflix adaptation, found in Memes.Castlevania 2017. Notice how Memes.Castlevania does not even link the adaptation's own Memes subpage.
- Memes.League Of Legends lists memes for the main LoL game and its E-sports scene, but at least the intro immediately tells the reader that there's a separate Memes.Arcane page for the Arcane show.
- Memes.Metal Gear also lists memes for the entire franchise, the YMMV.Metal Gear Rising Revengeance page links there, but there's a redirect
implying that Revengeance used to have its own Memes subpage. The edit history confirms it did
, and a discussion about it was posted via an ATT query
(a troper named GRD made that game-specific subpage, but discussion agreed to have troper Amonimus turn it into a redirect to the series-wide Metal Gear memes page).
- Memes.Devil May Cry has been the "centralized" page for all memes of the Devil May Cry franchise. The Page Info says it existed since November 2018 and several DMC tropers (including myself) have been adding and updating meme entries in just that page to maintain consistency. However, it seems like some tropers already, pre-emptively added a Memetic Mutation entry for Adi Shankar's upcoming Devil May Cry (2025) show in its YMMV.Devil May Cry 2025 page. Shouldn't it be moved to Memes.Devil May Cry instead?
There may be plenty more questions that I'd still like to ask (such as "When's the right time for a specific installment's examples to be separated from the franchise-wide subpage?"), but at this point, it's disappointing to see how TV Tropes is very inconsistent when it comes to listing Memes and handling franchise-wide subpages, especially when you now have installment(s) with three pages for its Memetic Mutation examples... (Looking at you Memes.Persona, YMMV.Persona 3 and YMMV.Persona 3 Reload).
openDouble-checking a potential sinkhole
Is it acceptable to pothole to Running Gag when something gets repeated on TV Tropes for humor? I checked the In-Universe Examples Only page and Running Gag isn't there, but I still want to double-check that this isn't one of those "annoying misuse of a trope" types of sinkhole that could lead to Trope Decay or worse.
I ask most specifically about this portion of the Leeroy Jenkins subpage for Tabletop Games, where I just added a pothole after the same thing was said for the fifth time:
- The GURPS team seems to love Leeroying, inasmuch as there are so many Disadvantages that can produce it:
- Berserk: You must roll to avoid Leeroying any time you take 3 or more hits in one turn, or under "Other conditions of extreme stress (GM's option)" — i.e. pretty much in any combat.
- Bloodlust: You must roll to avoid Leeroying any time you have a chance to kill a "legitimate enemy" — i.e. pretty much in any combat.
- Impulsiveness: You must roll to avoid Leeroying any time the rest of the party are taking too long discussing something — i.e. pretty much before any combat.
- On the Edge: You must roll to avoid Leeroying any time you have a chance to deliberately put yourself in mortal danger — i.e. pretty much before or during (and possibly after) any combat.
- Overconfidence: You must roll to avoid Leeroying any time you feel yourself a match, or more than a match, for your opponent — i.e. pretty much in any combat.
resolved Misuse of ascended memes for Sonic 3? Film
These were added to the Film.Sonic The Hedgehog 3 page, under Ascended Meme:
- Ascended Meme:
- A minor one; Shadow gets totally interested in La Ultima Passion and roots for the Love Interest to just kill the other legs of the Love Triangle she's stuck in. He just loves Latinas.
- At one point, Sonic calls Shadow "Hot Topic", Shadow's nickname in Snapcube's Real-Time Fandub.
I feel like this is misuse, as Ascended Meme is when the meme itself appears in a work. Neither of these feel like actual references to the memes and are a bit of a stretch to connect them and are Fan Myopia at worst.
Cause hearing Sonic call Shadow "Hot Topic" made me think "okay, reference to edgy stuff zeitgeist in the mid-2000s" and not a reference to Snapcube fandubs (FWIW I haven't watched either).
Similarly, Shadow watching the spanish drama and getting into it feels more like he's The Comically Serious and Not So Above It All, rather than the latinas meme.
Like, I feel an actual ascended meme referring to at least the Jehtt thing is if Shadow actually said "I Love Latinas" in the dialogue of the film.
Edited by taotruthsresolved How to AKA character pages / make a universal character page Videogame
Making two media pages in the same franchise, which shares similar casts, and would like there to be one character page that links to them both.
Similar accomplished with the https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/Warhammer40000SpaceMarine
page, with Space Marine II linking to it via "AKA", but I've never had to do this myself until now. Like to know what page contains instructions to accomplish this.
resolved Question about character page cleanup threads
I have a general question: If a troper like myself creates a character page cleanup thread for a specific series, where should they announce it? Thanks.
Edited by gjjones

In the Tabletop Games folder on the Other subpage for Role-Ending Misdemeanor, I found that this edit
by Schlub_life from late last August (the added text is in bold italics on the end of the example):
The lack of sources for the note at the end and the sudden pivot from documenting the accusations and role termination to noting that the accusers supposedly admitted to lying has set off a few red flags in my mind, both in terms of if this is true (given the subject matter), and whether or not this is necessary to add.
But on the other hand, I don't want to jump to the conclusion that there was an agenda behind this edit. I'd like to hear what others see before I decide whether or not to do anything with this added sentence.
Edited by Akriloth2160