Have a question about how the TVTropes wiki works? No one knows this community better than the people in it, so ask away! Ask the Tropers is the page you come to when you have a question burning in your brain and the support pages didn't help.
It's not for everything, though. For a list of all the resources for your questions, click here. You can also go to this Directory thread
for ongoing cleanup projects.
Ask the Tropers is for:
- General questions about the wiki, how it works, and how to do things.
- Reports of problems with wiki articles, or requests for help with wiki articles.
- Reports of misbehavior or abuse by other tropers.
Ask the Tropers is not for:
- Help identifying a trope. See TropeFinder.
- Help identifying a work. See MediaFinder.
- Asking if a trope example is valid. See the Trope Talk forum.
- Proposing new tropes. See TropeLaunchPad.
- Making bug reports. See QueryBugs.
- Asking for new wiki features. See QueryWishlist.
- Chatting with other tropers. See our forums.
- Reporting problems with advertisements. See this forum topic.
- Reporting issues on the forums. Send a Holler instead.
Ask the Tropers:
openJust Dance (No Name Given Trope) Videogame
Although I would like to add the trope itself since every single coach (not counting the collaborated ones) comes with no names at all, I also notice that some of the coaches have been given names, either by the directors of the game, concept arts or posts from official accounts. If it is to be added, will it be counted as a Subversion or Aversion?
openSpecific image won't upload Videogame
I've been adding images to Characters.Temtem, and today I wanted to add images of Hidody and Taifu. Problem is, the Hidody image
I downloaded from the Wikia wouldn't upload; when I clicked "submit", it cancelled itself before it could load the popup with the URL and formatting in it. I chalked this up to the uploader not working... but a few hours later, I tried again, and it still didn't work, but an image of Taifu
that I downloaded from the same site uploaded just fine. Is the file corrupted?
openCan Trivia be played with? Videogame
Exactly What It Says on the Tin: I'm wondering if Trivia can be played with. Specifically, I'm asking in regards to Trivia.Super Smash Bros, as the Unintentional Period Piece has two bullet points; one which explains how the first three games are this (due to them being Museum Games that released before games could be regularly updated, and as such are limited to what existed at the time of development), and one which explains how the fourth and fifth games avert this by adding in new content from games which were concurrent to and/or released after Smash itself.
I looked at What Goes Where on the Wiki and Trivia and they don't mention it at all; compare to YMMV.Home Page, which does.
openVideo examples for Let's Player without a page? Videogame
I have a potential video example I want to upload, but it's from a Let's Play by HawkZombie
, who doesn't have a page here. His channel isn't very big yet (he has 359 subscribers right now), and I don't know enough about him to start a page for him.
What's the best way to handle this? Is it okay to only use the game itself as the video source? Can I link to the original video, or the player's channel, in the description?
It has to be from this Let's Play because the trope depends on the player's reaction.
Edited by DrNoPumaopenCharacters.SeriousSamBosses - Regarding ZumZum: BeeAfraid or WickedWasps? Videogame
So, basically, more than two weeks ago, I was busy prowling through Bee Afraid wicks to clean them up (since Bee Afraid now covers only dangerous/antagonistic bee characters or species; the original definition is covered by Scary Stinging Swarm). One of these wicks was located in Characters.Serious Sam Bosses, describing a boss called ZumZum. Here's the entry that contained the wick:
- Attack of the 50-Foot Whatever: A freaking huge wasp.
Naturally, I replaced the wick with a wick for the Wicked Wasps trope. But later, a troper called AM_NK added the separate Bee Afraid wick, describing ZumZum as "a giant mook-making bee" (yet, surprisingly, not rewriting other wicks and not even removing the Wicked Wasps wick), and then added ZumZum as an example in the main Bee Afraid page.
Now, that's when the confusion rises. I was very hesitant to remove the Bee Afraid wick (since it would count as an example of edit-warring), but the page now simultaneously calls ZumZum a wasp and then contradicts itself by calling it a bee. And as far as I'm aware, no insect can simultaneously be a bee and a wasp.
To settle this, I decided to browse the internet for the information regarding ZumZum. The wiki page on Serious Sam Wiki
calls ZumZum a hornet-like creature (and its Russian counterpart outright refers to it as a mutated hornet). Also, judging by how the character looks
◊, it looks more like a wasp to me. However, [[https://serioussam.fandom.com/wiki/ZumZum_Jr
. the mooks it spawns]] definitely resemble bees more, which would make ZumZum itself a weird-looking bee by association.
I've never played Serious Sam game series in my life, so I have zero understanding about the game's lore, characters, and stuff. So I'd like to ask, what should be done here? Should we rewrite the entry to call it a wasp (therefore, removing the Bee Afraid wick), or a bee (therefore, removing the Wicked Wasps wick)? Or should we just Take a Third Option and call it a "bee/wasp thing", keeping both wicks?
Oh, and should we bring AM_NK to this thread? I'd like to hear what they have to say on this stance.
Edited by I--Vanya--IopenWhat is this bullshit Videogame
Alright, who the hell decided it was a good idea to add a page image to Awesome.The Binding Of Isaac? The page itself is shoehorning a lot.
Edited by SpideyopenConcern over Winnie the Pooh's Home Run Derby Videogame
While helping with the That One Boss and That One Level cleanup
, I came across some questionable examples on Winnie the Pooh's Home Run Derby, and in the process I've found myself concerned about the page and its subpages in general.
I had no doubt the reason the game even had a page was because of the general Surprise Difficulty reaction it gets, but the memes of how hard it is - and the demonization the pitchers got as a result - have bled into all but one subpage, even though difficulty aside, it's a simple Winnie-the-Pooh game with no plot.
My main concern is how I should deal with this. Like I said, the issues are quite prominent, but I'm worried about if the pages aren't big enough to warrant a thread on Projects: Short Term, and what I should do instead if they aren't.
Edited by BrashBusteropenSlightly suspicious troper Videogame
jamesalan
added a link to an unofficial web port of Five Nights at Freddy's 1 (hosted on y9freegames.com) on the Five Nights at Freddy's Franchise page. This edit strikes me as a bit odd because:
- It's an unofficial link, on a page about the official work.
- The link itself just reads "Online gameplay link" and is thrown in the middle of the spin-offs section of the page, on top of using the wrong formatting (a dash instead of asterisk for a bullet point), which has a bit of a spammy feel.
- Almost all of that troper's edits consist of adding links to web games.
I removed the link since it was out-of-place, but this incident makes the whole y9freegames site seem suspicious to me. The troper added another link to that site on Happy Wheels, which I'm not sure if it's OK or not.
openSafe to recreate cut page for a Cars game? Videogame
This is kind of a silly question, but I'm here to ask if it's okay to recreate Cars: Race-O-Rama, the page for a semi-obscure tie-in game for Pixar's Cars. It was apparently cut for reading "Like a Wikipedia summary of the games" and not actually listing any tropes.
Since the issue seems to be that the original page was badly written to the point of being useless, I imagine it would be fine for me to make a proper page for this game. I do have a list of tropes pertaining to Cars Race O Rama. I just wanted to ask before doing anything, per the warning on the cut page itself.
Edited by JoestarRunneropenWhat kind of page do mods and fanmade songs for Friday Night Funkin go into? Videogame
So, I'm the main guy who launched and frequently checks the Friday Night Funkin' page, and as I've been looking around the edit histories, it's become evident that a few tropers would like to add examples of mods/fan created songs to pages like Awesome Music and Nightmare Fuel. I for one think that FNF has a healthy modding community ripe with lots of examples and I was hoping that these would breath new life into the page during the lulls of waiting for the game itself to be updated, so I tried making a fan works page, since you can't add examples of mods to main pages. Unfortunately, I used the page incorrectly (Accidentally. My bad.) and it got cut. I can only assume that we should use the Fanfic Recs option? I'm a little confused on the matter since I wouldn't really consider game mods fanfics.
Edited by GraysonBaueropenReligiousAndMythologicalThemeNaming and a Halo franchise example with possible spoilers Videogame
My main concern is how to write this so as to avert creating a Self-Fulfilling Spoiler. The Flood in Halo is very clearly named after the Genesis flood narrative, but how would I go about adding this in to the page without creating a Self-Fulfilling Spoiler since in the backstory, the Flood were effectively created as a means to purge the Forerunners, who retaliated by creating an Ark to preserve most species?
Edited by EclipseMTopenDoes having your memory erased and replaced with FakeMemories count for BrainwashedAndCrazy. Videogame
So there's a character in Fire Emblem Awakening, whose backstory involves her being kidnapped as a teenager by people she hates, having her entire memory and personality erased to the point she no longer remembers her parents or even her name, and then all this being replaced with a Fake Memories magically implanted into her mind. She is then used to carry out her kidnapper's bidding.
The character describes herself as a ""A girl enslaved mind, body, and soul"
and the official sources use "pawn" and "puppet to describe her, with the Fire Emblem wiki(link
, ) describing her with the word, "brainwashed."
The reason I put this here is someone keeps contesting this example and saying she wasn't brainwashed, even though there is a similar character listed from Sailor Moon. I wanted to know what ATT thinks? Does that count as an example of Brainwashed and Crazy?
Edited by MonsundopenEdit War in YMMV/FinalFantasyXV Videogame
Immortal Bear re-deleted
an entry I restored to Final Fantasy XV since their original deletion lacked an edit reason. They've provided an explanation after the fact, but most of it comes off as personal opinion and dislike of the Episode Ignis ending for reasons unrelated to what the original entry was about (that being that audience perception of its tone shifted due to Dot F), rather than an impartial collective observation of the reactions of the fandom at the time.
I've PM'd them as much, pointing out to them that they seem to take the YMMV label too literally as its actual focus is to describe audience responses to a work rather than to post personal opinions, that contrary to their belief the page is not trying to wage a war over which ending is objectively better, and I've also pointed out to them that though they claim the only people with a non-negative opinion are a Vocal Minority, other tropers have made the same observations as me regarding the state of the fandom at the time.
They seem to believe that because Dawn of the Future has an overall score of 9.0 on Good Reads (which often has a userbase culture distinct from the social media sites I frequent like Twitter, Tumblr, Reddit, or imageboards, and whose score doesn't always take into account things like the specific comparative tone of the ending), while Episode Ignis rates an average of 7.0 (the score again mostly focusing on things like gameplay rather than tone), that it invalidates everything I've said above, since I don't have hard sources on hand for every tweet or social media comment I've seen regarding people being softer on Episode Ignis's ending or disliking Dawn of the Future's approach.
I don't think that makes for an effective counterargument as YMMV does not mandate sources in general, and Dawn of the Future's perception outside of GR tends to attract a lot of negativity in its own right, not to mention disregarding said potential inherent selection bias (the people posting reviews were probably accepting enough of the controversies around the book to read through the whole thing). The reviews themselves on GR are variable with many positive scores criticizing the ending, and many reviews that praise the ending having mediocre scores on the whole.
None of the arguments they've provided contradict the initial point (that people's opinions of Episode Ignis became less hostile once Dawn of the Future was announced) of nor justify the deletion of the entry describing how people's hostility to a certain alternate ending seen as overly happy, dipped off once another, even happier ending showed up. Especially since the edit reason for deleting it is focused mostly on arguing why Alternate Ending #1 is badly written and any talk of audience reactions is more about pointing out that a portion of the audience exist who liked the other newer, even happier ending, even though the original entry never claimed otherwise or to speak for the entirety of the fandom.
Update: They are now accusing me of outright lying and being biased in favor of one ending for disputing their deletions, despite the major issues here having to do with a lack of, followed by questionably irrelevant removal reasons in what is a potential edit war. Update 2: They've taken it back after I explained myself further.
Edited by AlleyOopopenHostile edit reasons from troper. Videogame
On 1/01 Mr Heroes added the following meme to the Fate/Grand Order meme page:
- Muramasa is ShirouExplanation While he takes Shirou's form, Muramasa isn't Shirou. A running gag is having Muramasa mistaken/called Shirou, which is popular with fan artists.
On 1/04, Rebel Falcon removed it with an unusually hostile edit reason spread across a few minutes:
- "For the last time, Muramasa is Shiro. Muramasa is a Pseudo-Servant using Shiro as his host, and his bio quite literally says that Shiro's personality is the dominant one. He doesn't simply look like Shiro, he is Shiro."
- Saying Muramasa isn't Shiro is like saying Ishtar isn't Rin, or Jaguar Warrior isn't Taiga, or Ganesha isn't Jinako. It's literally their bodies and personalities, its just some have themselves in the drivers seat, some have the spirit, and some fuse together. Bottom line though, Muramasa is fucking Shiro Emiya.
Now in the first instance, this was done because it appears Rebel may have submitted their edit early, cutting off the message as the first of three edits has this edit reason: For the last time, ''Muramasa is Shiro".
However, the third entry was made after the second, more detailed one, and was close to ten minutes later. The meme itself is probably fine being removed but the edit reason is very hostile and leaves me concerned since this is something I've noticed seems to be a recent trend of there's.
For example, on the RWBY page, they readded an entry on 1/03 that was removed with the following edit reason: "Don't remove shit without giving a reason."
I've not had much interaction with Rebel except for once but I wanted to mention it since this hostility is concerning. Not to suspend them concern, more so just a "Hey, everything okay?" kind of concern.
Edited by keyblade333openExpanding tropes on Insomniac's Spider-Man Videogame
Hey, guys, I realise that this message is more appropriate in a videogame forum or the like, which is where I did originally send it, but I have decided to post it here as well since I have not been garnering any responses from the videogame's forum.
So I recently added some tropes which I think apply to Insomniac's Spider-Man, Manchild, Motor Mouth, Pop-Cultured Badass and Thou Shall Not Kill, onto his folder, but can't expand upon them (as I'm a relatively inexperienced editor and have yet to write up my first official example), so if someone could please maybe write up something on my behalf, I'd very much appreciate it.
To get anyone going, here's some info you can consider and use when writing up some descriptions for these tropes.
- For Manchild, maybe someone could mention his endearingly narrating his own adventurers as Spider-Cop, constant wisecracking, etc, throughout Spider-Man PS4. And Silver Sable lampshading "You are a child." when he enthusiastically helps her calibrate her hovercraft towards the end of the Silver Lining DLC could also be noted.
- For Motor Mouth, this particular exchange between Spidey and Shocker when the former apprehends the latter's bank robbery attempt during the mission "Financial Shock" can be considered. Here's a 41 second clip of the exchange if you wanna watch it.
Spider-Man: Remember our first fight? Me, so young and stupid. You, just stupid. Shocker: You talk too much! Spider-Man: Well, that's a matter of opinion. I mean, are there any standard metrics for how much talking one should do? And who determines the ideal ratio of talking versus not-talking? Also, how would you measure it? Words per minute? Syllables per second? Or is it more about how many words one uses to express a single thought? It's all so subjective. If you ask me, some people don't talk enough. Like about who their mysterious overlord is, the person they're working for, that kinda thing. Shocker: [goaded past endurance] SHUT UP!- Of course, there are other moments where he just prattles on (even if he doesn't talk particularly fast-paced) and Silver Sable has asked him to shut up a couple times during the Silver Lining DLC. However, it may need to be noted that he tends to do this during story campaign, as outside-story gameplay, he's obviously quiet (I'm not quite sure what the trope for this is or if there's even a trope for this, maybe Gameplay and Story Segregation?) but you guys can write it however way you like, doesn't matter to me.
- For Pop-Cultured Badass, much like his MCU counterpart, Spidey makes a number of references to pop culture, of which I've compiled a list.
- Spidey greets Vulture with a friendly "Yo, Adrian!" While the Vulture yells at him to quit babbling, Electro actually responds by telling Spidey that he must break him in a strong Russian accent, much to the web-head's delight.
- Upon being attacked by Sable's jetpack troops and learning from Yuri that the mercenaries have declared martial law on the city in light of the Sinister Six's actions, Spider-Man asks if anyone else besides him is getting a Nineteen Eighty-Four vibe from the whole situation.
- When Sable Agents respond to Spider-Man fighting criminals, Spider-Man reacts by referencing a line from Milkshake
, with "milkshake" exchanged for "web."
- During a Maggia car chase, Spider-Man references It's Raining Men
.
- While going through one of Hammerhead's bases, Spider-Man says the line "Lions and Tigers and Bears, Oh My!" from The Wizard of Oz
.
- When talking about his "Spider-Cop" persona, Peter at one point says "Part man, part spider, all cop."
- During a side mission stopping the Demons' car while they have an armed bomb, Spidey may randomly say that it reminds him a lot of "that movie with the bomb on the bus," though he can't quite remember its name.
- A very subtle one occurs during the Midtown Research Mission "Chemical Leak". He follows the trail and in three separate spots he finds traces of mercury, nitric acid, and ethanol then wonders why that sounds familiar. It's familiar because that's the chemical combination used by none other than Heisenberg, the kingpin of Albuquerque drug crime himself, to blow a hole in a building during the first season of Breaking Bad.
- One type of random side mission has thugs pinning down cops with sniper rifles. After beating one, Spidey might quip that it feels like a new-age western, then say, "Yippee kiyay, mother-spider."
- When Spidey stops said heist, he quips, "I love it when a plan falls apart."
- When Spidey infiltrates an abandoned warehouse at the docks, he mentions this feels like a horror movie and asks if there are any fishermen with a grudge and a hook for a hand.
- In the Sable Lookout Crime, one of Spider-Man's quips is asking the soldiers if they should call him by say... flashing a Spider Symbol in the sky but stops himself "before he gets sued."
- And for Thou Shall Not Kill, since Spider-Man has a no-kill policy, thugs that are thrown off roofs during combat will automatically be pulled to the nearest wall and appear webbed-up. He also cites his no-killing rule when discussing how to take down Hammerhead with Silver Sable towards the end of Silver Lining.
So that's that. I hope you more experienced and talented editors can cook up something special with all this info. Write however way you want, I'm just the guy supplying some background info, which I hope will be useful. :)
Edited by gothamarkhamlordopenLego Marvel Superheores Game nightmare fuel Videogame
The fact the Norman Osborn was experimenting on innocent employees with Vemon trapping them in containers to make them into half Vemon monsters goons speaks for it self
openSamus Aran from Metroid: Soldier or Warrior? Videogame
With regards to the trope Soldier vs. Warrior there is a list of distinguished soldiers and warriors and clashing ideologies listed as examples. If I may submit a question to the more well-read and better-researched Tropers for discussion and consideration:
Is the protagonist of the Metroid series, Samus Aran, as she is currently portrayed in the playable games of the franchise, considered better fitting the Soldier archetype, or the Warrior archetype? Or neither?
I understand that part of her backstory, as depicted in titles such as Other M, as well as in media outside of video games (such as the e-Manga) does place her as a soldier in the Galactic Federation army. However, Other M also depicts that she does get to be a bit headstrong and doubting of orders, with the example given regarding the tragedy of Ian Malkovich's sacrifice by a command decision from Samus's C.O. She may have questioned his order - and her internal monologue reflects this as well - but doesn't disobey his order at all. In this regard, she does - or did - lean towards Soldier.
However, after leaving the Federation, the English canon tells us that she became a "bounty hunter", which we can interpret as just becoming a freelancer and occasional contract mercenary. In Japan, the generally-accepted "closest" translation is "Space Warrior", as she is marked among an elite class of freelancer specializing in missions few can pull off, and in being an expert combatant. However, based on what's in the Soldier vs. Warrior trope page, it doesn't seem like she fits the Warrior archetype much at all. She doesn't really do it for the glory, or to aggrandize herself, or as some test of strength or out of a sense of competition.
But at the same time, she doesn't currently still fit the Soldier role either. She says on occasion that she works alone, by choice, and hasn't worked under direct authority from military C.O.s since leaving the service, with the two exceptions being in Other M and in Metroid Fusion.
So is Samus an example of a zigzagging of this trope? Or some strange deconstruction of it? Or not in this index at all? I'd like to get a well-researched answer, as I just lack the understanding and the nuances of Tropology to really get how to go about answering this.
Thank you ahead of time!
Edited by Miles07openHaving formatting problems Videogame
Hello! Today I was attempting to edit the Fan works/Danganronpa page to add the fanfiction "ronpa and friends" to the crossovers folder and I seem to have messed up the formatting somehow? There is not a page on here for it yet so that may be the problem? If anyone could help me fix it or direct me to where I could learn how to fix it myself that would be very helpful. Sorry about the mess, I am still trying to figure out how this works.
openRemoved entires in FranchiseOriginalSin/WorldOfWarcraft that i feel need to be restored Videogame
While a few of those probably warranted their removal, i feel that at least three of them should be restored/re-added:
- The Night Elves Badass Decay, which started as them going from a power equivalent, if not greater, than the Horde and Alliance to being just another of the four Alliance factions, and culminated into them beign the victims of a genocide with their "vengeance" being toothless at best..
- the Forsaken's straddling of the Token Evil Teammate/Nominal Hero line from their very inception.
- The developpers' self admitted Creator Favorite attitude toward writing Horde content, which started with the world revamp of Cata being Horde-focused (i think they event wrote a blog post apologizing about that one, even), and continued all the way to the genocide of an Alliance race beign used as fodder for Horde/Saurfang story developpment.

On July 19th I remove most of the entries on the Heroes Of The Storm because of the nature of how the page was setup, as it didn't follow other examples such as High/Low/Both, the entries are about 75% of the cast, and the entries don't really explain where they fit in the Tier Induced Scrappy besides saying things like "Their uber low tier", plus the entries seem like they are all over the place in terms of how they are ranked. Is it quick match, ranked, etc.
After I did so, MurlocAggroB readded everything with the following reason: "I know this is non-standard, but there's no rule against non-standard page layouts. You can't just delete 90% of a page's content. Also, not to be elitist, but those entries about Butcher and TLV are laughably wrong."
Firstly I find the "laughably wrong" unnecessary and rude, no explanation was given how this is wrong. Secondly, the entries need seriously evaluation because how the entries are. They are below:
The Butcher
Gazlowe
Illidan
Maiev
Murky
Valeera
Cassia
Fenix
Genji
Greymane
Li-Ming
Nova
Probius
Raynor
Sgt. Hammer
Sylvanas
Tracer
Anub'arak
Artanis
Arthas
Chen
Cho'Gall
D.Va
Deathwing
The leader of the Black Dragonflight is a full-fledged playable raid boss. He is easily focused down by coordinated fire, but he is permanently Unstoppable, meaning that crowd-control effects do not work on him. These things make him a quintessential pubstomper, as "coordinated fire" basically does not occur in Quick Match, and what little CC he might face, he can shrug off. Additionally, while he cannot be healed by his allies, this is a very small downside in comparison to the vast amounts of damage he can put out, and the fact that, the more crowd control a character has, the more useless they are against him; his trait can reduce enemy characters to complete uselessness, giving his side a numerical advantage that can prove insurmountable. In general, a Deathwing only dies to their own overconfidence.Garrosh
Mal'Ganis
Ragnaros
Sonya
Varian
Xul
Abathur
Ana
Auriel
The Archangel of Hope was released as a true Combat Medic, having an AoE heal which could be fired every four seconds but only being able to charge her heal's Energy Meter by doing combat damage (a bit like to the original FF7 Limit Break). To aid this, and for flavor reasons, she can also use her trait Bestow Hope to channel an ally's damage into her meter as well. The only problem was that the Energy she gained was incredibly low; she needed a strong hyper-carry, pumping out absurd amounts of DPS, to function at maximum capacity — or a Cho'gall, allowing her to cheat by charging herself with two players' worth of damage at once. As such, she languished in obscurity and niche team comps (I mean, Cho'gall??) for several years. Finally, Blizzard buffed the amount of Energy she gained, almost doubling her charge rates and allowing her to take a place in the Nexus that amounted to more than "Joke Character."The Lost Vikings
Lt. Morales
Lúcio
Tassadar
Whitemane
Zarya