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resolved Non-YMMV trope in YMMV page: Final Fantasy Legend II Videogame
...And I thought it wouldn't ever happen again, but it does:
In the page YMMV.Final Fantasy Legend II, Nintendo Hard is listed there. Speaking of which, Video Games difficulty might be subjective between players, but if a lot of players see the Video Game with trope page in this site is seen as hard, it would been listed in the main page, rather than the YMMV.
Oddly enough, the trope has been there from the creation of the YMMV page, which is relatively new compared to the main Video Game page itself, and created in January 2021, likely to make out a separate YMMV page for Final Fantasy Legend II).
What will I do?
EDIT: As of this TRS thread
, apparently the decision of Nintendo Hard being subjective has resulted it in being moved to YMMV trope. So I guess it's fine to move it back to YMMV. And this is after I self-locked the query by marking it as Resolved! Dang it.
resolved Transphobic edit reason Videogame
mrluntishysterical removed
the Cross-Dressing Voices entry on Trivia.SuperMarioBrosWonder, citing that Giselle Fernandez is "biologically female", though Giselle themself is non-binary and uses they/them pronouns.
I reverted the entry already and sent them a notifier before writing this query, but I have a feeling this may turn into a possible agenda in the long run.
openConsent to re-add a little removed text excerpt under a different wick. Videogame
Before the dewicking of Kill Em All as a trope, the Foil entry on Biker's folder in Characters.Hotline Miami looked like this:
- Foil: To Jacket. Both of them are masked killers with psychotic tendencies, but whereas Jacket invokes Kill Em All and is motivated by revenge, Biker kills only because he finds it fun, yet can spare a whole lot of people. Furthermore, Biker openly talks and is rather forward, while Jacket is silent. Most importantly, however, Biker found out the truth about the phone calls and pulled a Screw This, I'm Out of Here! upon getting his answer, while Jacket falsely concluded that the calls came from the Russian Mafyia and slaughters its leadership instead, further advancing 50 Blessings' goals. Jacket then lets himself get caught by the police without ever learning the truth, dying in custody thanks to a nuking brought by an organization whose goals he advanced. By contrast, Biker may have survived the nuking while hiding in the desert, as he knew the implications of the truth.
After the dewicking, on the beginning of January 2023, Robert TYL removed the bolded part, making it look like this (note that this also includes a grammar correction done by another troper months later):
- Foil: To Jacket. Both of them are masked killers with psychotic tendencies, but whereas Jacket is motivated by revenge, Biker kills only because he finds it fun, yet can spare a whole lot of people. Furthermore, Biker openly talks and is rather forward, while Jacket is silent. Most importantly, however, Biker found out the truth about the phone calls and pulled a Screw This, I'm Out of Here! upon getting his answer, while Jacket falsely concluded that the calls came from the Russian Mafyia and slaughters its leadership instead, further advancing 50 Blessings' goals. Jacket then lets himself get caught by the police without ever learning the truth, dying in custody thanks to a nuking brought about by an organization whose goals he advanced. By contrast, Biker may have survived the nuking while hiding in the desert, as he knew the implications of the truth.
The removal of the bolded part makes Biker's point of "can spare a whole lot of people" come out of nowhere an unrelated. As such, I'd like to restore the bolded part with Leave No Survivors, since it's still a trope and fits Jacket's description better than the original Kill Em All.
- Foil: To Jacket. Both of them are masked killers with psychotic tendencies, but whereas Jacket invokes Leave No Survivors and is motivated by revenge, Biker kills only because he finds it fun, yet can spare a whole lot of people. Furthermore, Biker openly talks and is rather forward, while Jacket is silent. Most importantly, however, Biker found out the truth about the phone calls and pulled a Screw This, I'm Out of Here! upon getting his answer, while Jacket falsely concluded that the calls came from the Russian Mafia and slaughters its leadership instead, further advancing 50 Blessings' goals. Jacket then lets himself get caught by the police without ever learning the truth, dying in custody thanks to a nuking brought about by an organization whose goals he advanced. By contrast, Biker may have survived the nuking while hiding in the desert, as he knew the implications of the truth.
Can I go ahead with this change, or does anyone have any objections?
Edited by Inky100resolved Odd grammatical perhaps-corrections Videogame
Mr Derpy Kid 2 changed "themselves" into "themself" on Characters.Armored Core VI Main Characters and Characters.Armored Core VI Corporations. I've never seen it used this way before, and all my googling showed was "some people might be using it, IDK spidey lol".
Do I correct this (and send a notifier)? Is this even the sort of change that needs correcting?
openIs Majora's Mask Low Fantasy Videogame
So Majora’s Mask is listed as Low Fantasy, but as a huge Majora’s Mask fan myself, I really think it doesn’t in any way fis Low Fantasy. I’m sure it was deleted in the past, but it looks like it was added back.
The entry claims Magic is less present than other Zelda games and that the plot of Majora's mask is more grounded with realistic things.
To list how magic is ‘’extremely’’ prominent as well as how the plot and the setting are not realistic.
- Far from using basic magic, Link can:
- Time Travel
- Slow down time as well as fast forward through time.
- Shapeshift into other people via healing their ghosts. One of these transformations (Fierce Deity), is even a creature, created by the memories of all the people of the land that Link befriended.
- Teleport
- Create decoys of himself.
- Summon a living Scarecrow.
- See and talk to ghosts, sometimes turning them into magical masks.
- Transform into a 50 foot tall giant.
- Turn his arrows into beams of Fire, Ice and Light.
- There’s many Fantastic monsters and creatures even by the standards of the Zelda series, whom are all treated as normal by regular citizens, including:
- Plant people that shoot bubbles or nuts and can fly with magical flowers.
- Rock people that can roll into balls and move at superhuman speeds.
- Fish people that run a rockband using sea animals as instruments.
- Fairies that are common knowledge and the citizens of town regularly visit.
- An entire valley and city composed of undead like Ghosts, Mummies, Skeletons and Zombies.
- Snowlems just outside town.
- Alien ghosts!
- Locations are extremely weird like a dungeon that you repeatedly have to change gravity in.
- Time Travel and shapeshifting via magical masks are central elements in general.
- The Big Bad is a demonic Evil Mask possessing an Undead Child and commanding a gigantic army of very strange monsters. He was also friends with the Giants that literally created the world he lives in.
- There’s a living scarecrow just walking around town that is treated as normal.
- Many ordinary citizens possess Masks of Power, they even explain to you bestow magical abilities upon their wearer.
- Gonk-ish witches are regular merchants.
- Other fantastic things include Talking Animals as well as Funny Animals, including a possibly Cybernetic beaver
- The Magic effects of the milk from the milkbar is well known and even a point of advertisement.
And I can’t find it at this moment, but in an interview, with one of the game’s writers, possibly Aonuma, he stated he added in whimsical and dream like elements into the game to offset another writer when he added scary stuff.
Make no mistake, I love Majora’s Mask, but it doesn’t seem to fit the trope at all.
Even in the Zelda series, I feel The Legend Of Zelda 1 is more Low Fantasy, though I don’t think it fits the trope either.
Edited by MonsundopenSpoilers off Videogame
A while ago I made a page for a short horror videogame called candypink. I would like to make it a spoilers-off page and remove all the spoiler tags, since the game itself is so short it can be finished in two minutes. Is this allowed?
resolved Rewriting Walkthrough Mode Page Videogame
Here's the summary of Walkthrough Mode:
For example, let's say Alice adds the Puppy Stomper 3000 to That One Boss. Bob follows this up by stating, "Actually, the Puppy Stomper isn't tough if you have the Ring of Puppy Protection, which only requires you to do X, Y and Z." Then Clara comes by and adds, "To be fair, you need Sven in your party to use the Ring of Puppy Protection. It's easier to use the Stick of Puppy Protection, which only requires you to bring the Ring of Puppy Protection to the Ring Transumation Fairy in Scary Town."
Using the example from the above paragraph, here's what it looks like on a page.
- That One Boss: Puppy Stomper 3000 is hard because of blah blah.
- Actually, the Puppy Stomper isn't tough if you have the Ring of Puppy Protection, which only requires you to do X, Y and Z.
- To be fair, you need Sven in your party to use the Ring of Puppy Protection. It's easier to use the Stick of Puppy Protection, which only requires you to bring the Ring of Puppy Protection to the Ring Transumation Fairy in Scary Town.
- Actually, the Puppy Stomper isn't tough if you have the Ring of Puppy Protection, which only requires you to do X, Y and Z.
The first two paragraphs basically describe a videogame mechanics-themed version of Thread Mode, which... editors shouldn't do either, but if all the page has to say is "don't thread mode about game mechanics", it probably doesn't need to exist — just point to Thread Mode instead.
To my understanding, what Walkthrough Mode should tell readers is that they should avoid cluttering examples with numbers, niche mechanics, and long-winded guides that are only tangentially relevant to how there is an example of a trope — this is suggested to me by that last paragraph. Here's a version I think could work, which emphasizes that:
For example, let's say Alice lists the Puppy Stompertron as an example of That One Boss, engaging in Walkthrough Mode to do so:
- That One Boss: The Puppy Stompertron appears at the end of the Puppy Factory and presents a massive roadblock to the player. It's got a massive 70,000 HP health bar (by the end of the factory, you'll be dealing 300 DPS at best), has immunity to Bleed, Stun, Dizzy, Confuse, and Love, and all of its attacks are That One Attack. Puppy Squishing deals 10,000 damage and can only be survived with the Anti-Ten Thousand Medal from the Numbers Swamp, Puppy Flamethrowing is supposed to deal only 40 damage to the player once but a bug with the level geometry can cause the flames to deal 400 damage if the player's standing on the many hills around the arena, and the Dog Food Ingester will heal it back to full unless the player has done the sidequest to obtain Dog Food Poison, which is easily missable at the start of the game. The only thing that can make this easy is the Puppy Stompertron Control Device to cut its HP in half, which is only available to builds that use the Dagger of Air Vent Entry, a 37 Charisma build to take it from the Puppy Factory Foreman (you can't go with any other level of Charisma, he starts liking you too much if you do), or a glitched maximum Speed character to clip through the northeast locked door and access the room where it's stored.
As you can see, this entry is hard to read because it's loaded with tangents on whole-game strategies and numbers that mean nothing to an outsider, when all that's needed is to explain how the Puppy Stompertron boss is harder than the rest of the game. Let's see an example that does just that:
- That One Boss: The Puppy Stompertron appears at the end of the Puppy Factory and presents a massive roadblock to the player. It has massive HP for that point at the game, immunity to many of the useful status effects, and all of its attacks are That One Attack — dealing massive damage or healing itself to full. The only ways to get past it painlessly involve highly-specific strategies and/or exploiting glitches, neither of which are available to every character class.
This entry is much more succinct in stating why the Puppy Stompertron is an example of That One Boss: it has high stats, immunity to statuses, powerful attacks, and the mechanics to make it easier aren't universally applicable. By cutting out details, the example becomes easier to read and digestible, yet the non-Walkthrough Mode entry still manages to communicate key points on why the Puppy Stompertron is this trope.
As a side bonus, when talking about games that are receiving post-launch updates, avoiding exact numbers gives a degree of futureproofing. In many games, if a change needs to be made, the numbers are usually first to be adjusted, so if the Puppy Stompertron ever has its HP or damage values changed this way, the example doesn't suddenly need an update to correct those parts.
While it is understandable why Walkthrough Mode happens, wiki articles are not walkthroughs for how to beat That One Boss or That One Level. Trope examples should be generic enough that those who aren't familiar with the game can understand them, and shouldn't be cluttered with something like the exact attack strength of a weapon or helpful asides about which two of the three Superbosses can be affected by the Game-Breaker. This isn't to say that you shouldn't list your example with little to no information, which is the opposite problem; you just need to explain why your example is that of the trope in question in a way that's digestible to the average reader.
See also Word Cruft, another writing element that makes examples bloated and indigestible by adding too many unnecessary words.
Does this look good to use on the page?
Edited by PyhrrousopenSelf-reporting: Any evidence of an edit war here? Videogame
I'm self-reporting about if I started an Edit War in a Goddamned Bats entry of my own in the YMMV page of Diner Dash.
Back in the middle of July, I added the entry, which read as follows:
- Similarly to the Cellphone Addicts, the Cavemen in Flo Through Time make noise that drains other customers' patience, though they're pretty quick eaters and leave in no time if attended quickly, in addition to being more patient.
Then at the end of the month, Shaker Troper 2002 corrected the entry in accordance to how the Goddamned Bats in question actually behaved (unlike what I initially thought about them).
- Similarly to the Cellphone Addicts, the Cavemen in Flo Through Time make noise that drains other customers' patience, though they're pretty quick eaters and leave in no time if attended quickly. Like cellphone addicts, their own patience also drains fast as well.
A couple months later (just now), I noticed that the entry was edited, so I decided to rearrange it a bit so it looks clean and organized, without changing any of the context addressed. It currently reads like this:
- Similarly to the Cellphone Addicts, the Cavemen in Flo Through Time have a low patience of their own and make noise that drains other customers' patience, though they're also pretty fast eaters and leave in no time if attended quickly.
I know this self-report might be quite dumb, but I did it just in case there was some issue, since I didn't intend to do anything against ShakerTroper2002 nor start an Edit War in general.
Edited by Inky100resolved That One Boss natter? Videogame
I tried to bring this up in the cleanup thread
, but to no avail.
This was recently added under Sillydillo's entry in ThatOneBoss.Kirby:
- In a June 2022 interview with Nintendo Dream, Shinya Kumazaki admitted that members of the development team often raised complaints about Sillydillo's difficulty... including Kumazaki himself. You know a boss deserves to be on this list when the people who made the game wound up finding him too tough!
Seems like natter to me, but should I remove it?
resolved Is "needlessly vindicitive" a proper edit reason for removal? Videogame
Black Yakuzu 94 removed several entries from the one of the recap pages
for Fate/Grand Order, claiming to be "removing needlessly vindicitive comments". Their removal of certain tropes from the YMMV page for that recap page but without an edit reason prompts to ask if that is a legitimate reasoning, if the entries were actually that, or if this was a case of agenda based editing.
Removals from the main page:
- Asshole Victim: Even before Morgan's backstory was revealed, the majority of Faeries that the protagonist encounters outside their closest allies are jerks, backstabbers, manipulators, pretenders, violent murderers and worse. And then there's Morgan's backstory which is just an endless cycle of her being betrayed by the very Faeries she's trying to save. It makes her harsh oppression of them as the Queen almost justifiable.
- Kick The Son Of A Bitch: Oberon Vortigern is the final boss and the eventual Arc Villain, and he intends to destroy all of Proper Human History after escaping the Lostbelt alongside killing off Chaldea to keep them from stopping him. Definitely not a good guy in the slightest. But... when he actually accelerated the destruction of the ungrateful Faerie races? And that he boasts that at least he succeeded in destroying Fairy Britain? Well, seeing just how horrific they are, it can be tempting to pat Oberon Vortigern's shoulders and tell him 'job well done'. Same with Cernunnos' reawakening and then giving Oberon Vortigern what he needed to start his plan.
- World of Jerkass: While other Lostbelts are very much definition of Crapsack World, they were inhabited with complicated beings who are capable of both good and bad. This Lostbelt is notorious for having a majority of its inhabitants being selfish, backstabbing, greedy, lazy, ungrateful, manipulative assholes, while decent faeries can be counted with two hands at most and those tend to be met with horrific ends at the hands of the asshole ones. It was these inherent self-destructive tendencies 'in the name of fun' that led the world to ruin (with Morgan adopting tyranny to put up any semblance of order, and even that was only temporary until she was ousted and betrayed). The EX Difference Depth classification of the Lostbelt isn't just for show.
Altered on the main page (Bold portion was removed)
- Downer Ending: While previous Lostbelts all end in a bittersweet note, this one's ending is really bleak. The entirety of the Faerie British Isle is torn to pieces by the Calamities, with the only three characters surviving it until the world's end being Melusine Albion, who is just barely holding herself together, Oberon Vortigern, who is stuck inside the Insect of the Abyss so that it can't escape outside, and Aurora, who is slowly dying anyway. Furthermore, Chaldea's secondary mission to retrieve Rhongomyniad ends up failing as the lances were all used to try to kill Cernunnos and they were unable to save anyone from the Lostworld. Sion also hints in the ending that Chaldea's good luck streak of conquering Lostbelts without casualties is about to end. The only good that came out of it is stopping the world from being destroyed and they were able to get an alternate tool, a physical version of Excalibur, to defeat the Foreign God. There’s also the silver lining that all the malignant Faeries deserved what they got for being such assholes of the highest order and put everyone, including the world itself, through hell for their selfishness and fickle nature.
- Mercy Kill: What the heroes have to end up doing to the few good fairies who really didn't deserve to die
Removed from the YMMV page
- Catharsis Factor: Unlike the first five Lostbelts, the players will probably be very happy to see Cosmos Denial after completing the chapter considering how awful the fae are.
openFinal Fantasy XVI ButNotTooGay example removed, no edit reason Videogame
I added But Not Too Gay on Final Fantasy XVI recently, but it was removed by Diracspuddle without an edit reason, to which I've sent them a notifier for. The user is infrequently active, so I don't expect an answer back soon. Edit made here
.
In the context of FFXVI not shying away from some partial nudity and sex scenes where they make use of camera work to hide the naughty bits and kiss scenes between male-female pairings being generally more involved than the one gay kissing scene (characters are further away from the camera with their heads/hair blocking out the kiss itself), in addition to the gay couple not interacting romantically after that point, it seemed like it fit enough for me to be an example.
Is it fine to add the example back in?
Edited by YourIdeasopenSwitching page type Videogame
I want to turn the Skylanders page from "Video Game" to "Franchise" in order to be able to make individual pages for the games (since when I try to make the pages, they get redirected to the main series page rather than becoming a new page). Is it as simple as just creating a Franchise page and then asking for the Video Game page to be deleted? Can I do it myself here and now or do I need to consult other tropers to do it?
resolved Broken Base and other Recent Examples in MMOs? Videogame
So today, RuneScape (specifically Runescape 3) got an update that is fairly controversial, regarding the identity of a fairly major NPC, and I'm wondering how to address it on the trope page; RS itself has been out for over twenty years, but the update is literally not even a day old. Do I add a Broken Base example now, or do I have to wait six months from today (January 17th, 2024) to do it?
openAn example that really irks me, I want to correct it but I dont know the thread. Videogame
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SurprisinglyHappyEnding
- Final Fantasy VI seems like it's well on its way some kind of tragic or heavily bittersweet ending after Kefka destroys the world, but whether it gets that way is entirely up to the actions of the player, as any party deaths, as well as the death of Cid, are entirely preventable, with the only hero who's unaccounted for being Banon, and once the party defeats Kefka the ending goes out of its way to show that the "World of Ruin" is on its way to recovery.
This entry completely glosses over the extinction of an entire race of magical beings. The only survivor is the main character Terra who only survived because she's half human. I wanted to add this fact but If I did then it wouldnt be the trope or at least it would argue with itself which is a nono.
Edited by wingedcatgirlopenPossibly-imminent Edit War in YMMV/LimbusCompany Videogame
Happening in Limbus Company
Edit by me
, on the Good Bad Bugs entry, i changed it from:
- When part 3 of Canto IV came out, there was a bug where Sloth and Wrath Power Up, instead of increasing the respective sin's power by 1 per stack, would increase their damage by 100% per stack instead. This, particularly combined with Yi Sang's already powerful Sunshower EGO and synergystic Spicebush ID, resulted in Yi Sang being able to completely decimate waves by himself and casually deal 4-digit damage to Abnormalities with multiple parts.
to:
- When part 3 of Canto IV came out, there was a bug where Sloth and Wrath Power Up, instead of increasing the respective sin's power by 1 per stack, would increase their damage by 100 per stack instead. This, particularly combined with Yi Sang's already powerful Sunshower EGO and synergystic Spicebush ID, resulted in Yi Sang being able to completely decimate waves by himself and casually deal 4-digit damage to Abnormalities with multiple parts.
Dat Boi 10 changed the edit back to
:
- When part 3 of Canto IV came out, there was a bug where Sloth and Wrath Power Up, instead of increasing the respective sin's power by 1 per stack, would increase their damage by 100% per stack instead. This, particularly combined with Yi Sang's already powerful Sunshower EGO and synergystic Spicebush ID, resulted in Yi Sang being able to completely decimate waves by himself and casually deal 4-digit damage to Abnormalities with multiple parts.
Which has the major problem of "100%" being equal to a multiplier of 1, basically saying it increases the sin power damage by 1 per stack, when the bug is about the power increase being more like 100 times because of said bug.
I feel like the other editor misunderstood what "100%" would actually mean in a mathematical context, and i'd like the misunderstanding to be cleared up for them before an Edit War breaks out.
Edited by SomeLibreopenFFVIII Hyne fanon Videogame
Since this was from 2017, I figured this was a better route than trying to PM—but back then I added a Fanon entry under Final Fantasy VIII's YMMV page describing the phenomenon of ficcers having characters use "Hyne" as a standard bit of blasphemy (e.g. someone yelling "Hynedammit" instead of "goddammit") even though nobody speaks this way in the game itself—instead, they just use God the same way people in Real Life who are agitated, surprised, and/or upset would shout God. This was removed from the game's YMMV page a little while later with no edit reason, although it's still on the overal Final Fantasy page. I only noticed it now but since it would still technically constitute an Edit War, I wanted to bring it up before re-adding it.

So, I was working on the Pinocchiogoria page and for some reason, the index located down in the bottom of the page lists the Pinocchiogoria page as its own index, despite the fact that the page itself doesn't have an index within the page. How do I fix this problem?